On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:18:09 -0500, Borden Rhodes wrote:
Can I get a second on Teddy's opinion? I tend to believe that I just
share the Linux experience, and if I can get something useful done
whilst the computer is willing, so much the better. Is this the truth
about open source software?
Can I get a second on Teddy's opinion? I tend to believe that I just
share the Linux experience, and if I can get something useful done
whilst the computer is willing, so much the better. Is this the truth
about open source software? Maybe I am in the wrong distribution and
I'm wasting the
In 1290183489.3477.10.ca...@firefly.bordenrhodes.com, Borden Rhodes wrote:
Can I get a second on Teddy's opinion? I tend to believe that I just
share the Linux experience, and if I can get something useful done
whilst the computer is willing, so much the better. Is this the truth
about open
On Vi, 19 nov 10, 11:18:09, Borden Rhodes wrote:
What's important to emphasise here is that I'm not an idiot. Camaleón,
I can tell the difference between a hardware problem and a software
problem. I fix computers for profit so I know how to troubleshoot
problems when I have a clear set of
Dne, 17. 11. 2010 08:46:23 je Andrei Popescu napisal(a):
You got it wrong, Debian does NOT work this way. Policy is not
something
to beat maintainers with who don't obey it, but rather to document
sane
packaging practices which come out of 17 years of packaging
experience.
Well, setting
Hi, Steve:
On Monday 15 November 2010 21:34:03 Steve Kemp wrote:
[...]
Debian policy wouldn't arbitrarily try to mandate how the software
we include is written because we simply have no control over that.
Not to state a position but I think what you say's basically irrelevant:
Debian has
Hi, Borden:
On Tuesday 16 November 2010 22:43:38 Borden Rhodes wrote:
[...]
Why are there so many duplicate and incomplete bug reports and fora
which ask the same questions over and over? I've been guilty of
submitting duplicate bug reports even after I spent an hour searching
Google to make
On Wed, Nov 17 2010, Klistvud wrote:
Dne, 17. 11. 2010 08:46:23 je Andrei Popescu napisal(a): Well, setting
a set of guidelines is not about beating maintainers with
anything. At all. It's the other way around; it's about letting
maintainers intercommunicate and voice their suggestions and
Dne, 17. 11. 2010 15:56:09 je Jesús M. Navarro napisal(a):
And that's exactly why this wouldn't work for software: where's the
governing
body for programs? where's the authority to prosecute those not
abiding to
regulations?
There's no need for that, because, as you said:
The best you
On Mi, 17 nov 10, 18:34:44, Klistvud wrote:
Agreed, Debian Developers are already doing a huge -- and excellent
-- job and I would never dream of burdening them with additional
tasks. However, Debian is generally well respected within the FLOSS
world, and Debian Developers could leverage
Well I'm pleased for the discussion and particularly grateful to
Klistvud who says many of my ideas far more eloquently than I can.
I want to digress briefly and remind everyone that for as controversial
as you may think software standards are, accounting standards are far
worse. The SEC, AICPA,
licenses (like red hat enterprise or suse enterprise)
TeddyB
-Original Message-
From: Jesús M. Navarro jesus.nava...@undominio.net
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 15:38:35
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Why is troubleshooting Linux so hard?
Hi, Steve:
On Monday 15 November 2010 21
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:00:08 -0500, Borden Rhodes wrote:
(...)
So, yes, software breaks. But that's okay because I'm patient and
understanding and I can usually recover from the crashes or work around
them... just as long as I believe that some day it'll be fixed and not
break anymore.
Thank you for the response. Indeed, you are correct in that my problem
isn't specific to Linux kernel troubleshooting (although I could
dedicate a website to things that don't work there) but with the
software that runs on Debian in general.
To clarify, the problem I have is when the computer
Borden Rhodes wrote:
Thank you for the response. Indeed, you are correct in that my problem
isn't specific to Linux kernel troubleshooting (although I could
dedicate a website to things that don't work there) but with the
software that runs on Debian in general.
To clarify, the problem I have
Much obliged for the insight. I think I understand now the point that
Steve was trying to get at. If I understood correctly, Debian's role in
package maintenance is the packaging; the actual coding (and related
policies) are handled farther upstream.
All the same, I still struggle to understand
On Ma, 16 nov 10, 16:43:38, Borden Rhodes wrote:
But how would such a utopian scheme be implemented? Well, my training
is in accounting so I'll tell you how they solve these problems. A
governing body, like the SEC or AICPA, recognises a problem in its
standards and rules which, for
(Sorry for the late reply to a thread started way back)
I'm pleased for all of the feedback and that I'm not the only person
who's frustrated. I tried proposing to debian-policy that it be
mandatory that all logs have timestamps
http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2010/02/msg00035.html but my
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 13:51:55 -0500, Borden Rhodes wrote:
(Sorry for the late reply to a thread started way back)
I'm pleased for all of the feedback and that I'm not the only person
who's frustrated. I tried proposing to debian-policy that it be
mandatory that all logs have timestamps
On Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 13:51:55 -0500, Borden Rhodes wrote:
What would it take to get some error message standards in place so that
troubleshooting Linux is possible for those of us who aren't computer
science PhD candidates?
1. Make a list of all the programs which exist, but which do not
Steve Kemp wrote:
On Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 13:51:55 -0500, Borden Rhodes wrote:
What would it take to get some error message standards in place so that
troubleshooting Linux is possible for those of us who aren't computer
science PhD candidates?
1. Make a list of all the programs
On Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 15:19:27 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Actually, that does suggest a policy-level, or perhaps
kernel-level approach -- creating a stronger framework for
logging, error-reporting, tracebacks, etc. The further upstream
that's implemented, the more likely developers are to
Dne, 15. 11. 2010 19:51:55 je Borden Rhodes napisal(a):
I'm pleased for all of the feedback and that I'm not the only person
who's frustrated. I tried proposing to debian-policy that it be
mandatory that all logs have timestamps
http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2010/02/msg00035.html but my
Good morning,
I'm going to list some of the frustrations I've been having with
troubleshooting Linux's quirks, crashes and problems in hopes that someone may
be able to help me (and the community) become better bug reporters and
troubleshooters. I'll make comparisons to Windows only because I
My suggestion, can't we create troubleshooting database??
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Borden Rhodes j...@bordenrhodes.comwrote:
Good morning,
I'm going to list some of the frustrations I've been having with
troubleshooting Linux's quirks, crashes and problems in hopes that someone
may
On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 02:00 -0400, Borden Rhodes wrote:
Good morning,
I'm going to list some of the frustrations I've been having with
troubleshooting Linux's quirks, crashes and problems in hopes that someone
may
be able to help me (and the community) become better bug reporters and
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 02:00:52AM -0400, Borden Rhodes wrote:
Good morning,
I'm going to list some of the frustrations I've been having with
troubleshooting Linux's quirks, crashes and problems in hopes that someone
may
be able to help me (and the community) become better bug reporters
In 201008150200.52677.j...@bordenrhodes.com, Borden Rhodes wrote:
1) Is there a way to apply debugging symbols retroactively to a dump? A few
times I've had Linux crash on me and spit out a debugging dump. I do my
best to install debugging symbols for all 1400 packages I have on my system
(when I
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 02:00:52 -0400, Borden Rhodes wrote:
I'm going to list some of the frustrations I've been having with
troubleshooting Linux's quirks, crashes and problems in hopes that
someone may be able to help me (and the community) become better bug
reporters and troubleshooters.
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 02:31:49AM -0400, John A. Sullivan III wrote:
Very interesting and helpful post. Thank you. I've snipped most of it
out for the sake of those for whom long emails are a problem or
expensive.
You should ALWAYS trim your messages, cutting out the irrelevant cruft,
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