Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-28 Thread Geoff Bagley
This may be off-topic, but the very first computer programmer ever was a lady. The Countess Ada Lovelace, who wrote Babbage's software for him. Regards. Geoff. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-28 Thread bob parker
On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 05:40, Gary wrote: Monique Y. Herman wrote: Any guys have opinions? Why ask us men? We can't even see the ketchup in the fridge when it is staring us in the face, and you expect us to to see /this/? Not always true. There is a fool proof way to cure us guys of

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-27 Thread Kevin Mark
On Sat, Mar 27, 2004 at 12:33:16AM +0530, Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:52:18 -0500 Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:59:11 +0530 Ritesh Raj Sarraf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm not

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, Emma Jane Hogbin penned: On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 05:12:50PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ I've been slowly wading through it. I honestly didn't find anything offensive in the document. I guess I should re-read it

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Leo Spalteholz
On March 25, 2004 11:04 pm, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-26, Leo Spalteholz penned: On March 25, 2004 04:12 pm, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ That one

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder
On Thursday 25 March 2004 19.52, s. keeling wrote: I think (eg.) Networking For Women workshops are demeaning and insulting to women. What, you don't think I could handle a real networking course?!? Pig! The women I hang with agree. When I say something about it on-line, I'm roundly

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Katipo
Alex Malinovich wrote: On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 16:28, Kent West wrote: Monique Y. Herman wrote: I think you'd have to be incredibly smooth to pull off that husband line without sounding like a jerk. They just told him they were married. I wouldn't say it to a 20-year old girl; but a 35-year

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Antonio Rodriguez
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:40:18PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: Yeah, hyphenation irritates me because, taken to its logical extreme, it can't continue. I thought it would be cool to invent our own last name, but my s.o. is hyper-aware of the fact that he is the only person of his

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Kent West
Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 10:24:09PM -0600, Kent West wrote: One way I treated one of the women on this list (you? Emma?) differently is like I said earlier; I posted something like Cool! A woman and she's a geek! slobber slobber slobber. It was inappropriate, sure, but

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Kent West
Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: PS I'll probably change my last name when I get married because Kent is way cooler than Hogbin. Not to mention I've always wanted to have a name that's 4+4+4 letters long. Hogbin's too long. Emma Jane Kent - Cool. And I'm flattered . . . snicker snicker (there goes that

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Number Six
On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 07:01:50AM -0600, Kent West wrote: Emma Jane Kent - Cool. And I'm flattered . . . snicker snicker (there goes that politically incorrect '60s throwback again . . .) Actually the 60s parallel may be pretty on-topic here: the way women were treated in the Berkley radical

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Kent West
Monique Y. Herman wrote: I mean, if you were reading through, I dunno, some female-majority list, would you wonder about the stats of every one of them? Seems unlikely. Having never done it, I can't say for sure, but, probably. Sitting in a restaurant last night, 7 people walked in; 4 men; 3

Re: OT: last names (was: Re: debian and women? from DWN #10)

2004-03-26 Thread CW Harris
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:34:56PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-26, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: snip Marriage shouldn't have to mean becoming someone else's property! Indeed, and it doesn't. There's a huge difference between choosing to do

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Ritesh Raj Sarraf
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:46:09 -0700 Monique Y. Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe because not everyone agrees it has nothing to do with debian, at least no more so than exim and postgres and NFS questions have nothing to do with debian? If I'm

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Steve Lamb
Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: If I'm not mistaken, this list is supposed to be a technical list discussing issues specific to the Debian GNU/Linux Distribution. You're mistaken. debian-user mailing list Help and discussion among users of Debian Help *and discussion* among users of Debian. The

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Chris Metzler
On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:59:11 +0530 Ritesh Raj Sarraf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm not mistaken, this list is supposed to be a technical list discussing issues specific to the Debian GNU/Linux Distribution. From http://lists.debian.org/users.html : } debian-user: Help and discussion among

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Ritesh Raj Sarraf
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:44:43 -0800 Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 50 msgs archive will never be helpful in the future. Initiating such offtopic useless discussions on a technical list is one of the difference between men and women.

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Ritesh Raj Sarraf
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:52:18 -0500 Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:59:11 +0530 Ritesh Raj Sarraf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm not mistaken, this list is supposed to be a technical list discussing issues

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-26 Thread Katipo
Ritesh Raj Sarraf wrote: On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:44:43 -0800 Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 50 msgs archive will never be helpful in the future. _Initiating such offtopic useless discussions on a technical list is one of the difference between men and women. Might be. _ Nope, just

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Joost De Cock
On Thursday 25 March 2004 02:10, Monique Y. Herman shoved this in my mailbox: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty in dealing

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Andreas Janssen
Hello Monique Y. Herman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/ msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty in dealing with any

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread timg
Monique Y. Herman wrote: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty in dealing with any technically-oriented online forum; if anything,

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Number Six
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 01:30:15PM +, timg wrote: find that I do have a certain amount of trepidation when posting technical difficulties. I dont know why tho. probably looking an ass in public when you discover the answer was right under your nose (and fifty people point it out) is the

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Kent West
On Thursday 25 March 2004 02:10, Monique Y. Herman wrote: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty in dealing with any

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Kent West
timg wrote: [discussion of women's treatments on the Debian list and etc] Aside from that does anyone know how disable the mousepad when typing? I've never dealt with trackpads in Debian, so no, not really, but my first thought is that maybe it can be disabled in the BIOS. My second thought is

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Tom Massey
* Rebecca Dridan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-25 18:37]: On the other hand, I'm not sure if anyone caught the issue on Full Disclosure. Check this link [0] to see how some females do get treated on tech lists. Bec [0] http://www.oneeyedcrow.net/securitygeekfemme.html I'm an op on the irc

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Number Six
On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 01:16:15AM +1100, Tom Massey wrote: Unless the brazen evil fuctardedness displayed by Gooble's minions is stamped upon soon with a salted rubber wellington, then I expect that intelligent life on Earth will cease even earlier than the most pessimistic slug could have

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Justin Guerin
On Thursday 25 March 2004 06:30, timg wrote: Aside form that does anyone know how disable the mousepad when typing? -- cheers tim Check into package xfree86-driver-synaptics: * It also provides a daemon to disable touchpad while typing at the keyboard and thus avoid unwanted mouse

[OT] Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Philippe Marzouk
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 11:56:53PM -0800, Number Six wrote: I always thought Monique was a guy. I think what happened was I saw Herman and subconsciously said: Oh yeah, Monique, that's a guy's name in France...

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Katipo penned: She seems to be talking about a fear of being put down or treated poorly for participating in a technical forum. This isn't a fear I've ever had, but maybe I'm in the minority? I've also heard of women masquerading as men online to avoid any such questions ... and

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Steve Witt
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Monique Y. Herman wrote: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. -- snip -- Any guys have opinions? I guess I'm surprised that anyone even cares about gender

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Rebecca Dridan penned: (sorry about the direct reply Monique) I'll get over it with years of therapy =) [snip] On the other hand, I'm not sure if anyone caught the issue on Full Disclosure. Check this link [0] to see how some females do get treated on tech lists. Bec [0]

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: I always thought Monique was a guy. I think what happened was I saw Herman and subconsciously said: Oh yeah, Monique, that's a guy's name in France... Pretty sure it's not ... I personally enjoy working with women in computers, because it's so rare. I

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Tom Massey penned: * Rebecca Dridan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-25 18:37]: On the other hand, I'm not sure if anyone caught the issue on Full Disclosure. Check this link [0] to see how some females do get treated on tech lists. Bec [0]

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Number Six
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 10:51:19AM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: I always thought Monique was a guy. I think what happened was I saw Herman and subconsciously said: Oh yeah, Monique, that's a guy's name in France... Pretty sure it's not ... I

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: The tune Man Smart, Women Smarter seems appropriate to bring up here: http://dannyman.toldme.com/lyrics/Grateful_Dead/Man_Smart,_Women_Smarter.html It's a cover tune, a lot of other people sing it. If you don't believe that Women rule the world you are a

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread CW Harris
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 10:51:19AM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: I always thought Monique was a guy. I think what happened was I saw Herman and subconsciously said: Oh yeah, Monique, that's a guy's name in France... Pretty sure it's not ... I

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread s. keeling
Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ That one elicited about the loudest flamefest I've ever seen, in [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you can find that thread in their archives, and stand to wade through it all, you might find your answers there. I

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Number Six
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:13:09AM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: The tune Man Smart, Women Smarter seems appropriate to bring up here: http://dannyman.toldme.com/lyrics/Grateful_Dead/Man_Smart,_Women_Smarter.html It's a cover tune, a lot of other

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Emma Jane Hogbin
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 06:10:56PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I've personally found the Debian community to be an equal opportunity kind of place. Help is given equally to all, and RTFMs are thrown out equally to all.

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Joost De Cock penned: ... Any guys have opinions? When I think about you, it goes a bit like this: 1. Regular poster, knows what she's talking about. 2. Hmm, Monique, that's my mothers name and not very English sounding. Well, I'm not English, I'm American! *grin* My mom is

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Emma Jane Hogbin
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:52:40AM -0700, s. keeling wrote: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ That one elicited about the loudest flamefest I've ever seen, in [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you can find that thread in their archives, and stand

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Andreas Janssen penned: Hello Hi! So far I have not seen any hostility towards women because they were female (at least on the mailing lists and in the usenet groups I read). I have however seen that in some cases people (newbies) who use women's names (mostly you don't know

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Jaldhar H. Vyas penned: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Monique Y. Herman wrote: She seems to be talking about a fear of being put down or treated poorly for participating in a technical forum. This isn't a fear I've ever had, but maybe I'm in the minority? No Monique you are in the

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 01:30:15PM +, timg wrote: find that I do have a certain amount of trepidation when posting technical difficulties. I dont know why tho. probably looking an ass in public when you discover the answer was right under your nose (and

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, timg penned: i know exactly what she means and dont think it is a male/female thing. i'm a programmer, partly responsible for our main servers and development servers in house, happy to repair/build computers but still find that I do have a certain amount of trepidation when

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Gary penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: Any guys have opinions? Why ask us men? We can't even see the ketchup in the fridge when it is staring us in the face, and you expect us to to see /this/? I never did figure that one out. Why do I remember where my s.o. left his

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, CW Harris penned: Yes. I have found that generalization men and women think about things in different ways, probably due to differing life experiences (cf. Monique's comment re: female getting weird email about her picture showing she is too good for her boyfriend - how often

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: Carol is a man's name sometimes. There was an actress on the TV show The Waltons named Mike. And in the 1800's Barbara was sometimes a man's name. When I was a kid, I met a female lifeguard named Michael. IIRC, she told me that her parents had been

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Number Six
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 12:56:27PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 01:30:15PM +, timg wrote: find that I do have a certain amount of trepidation when posting technical difficulties. I dont know why tho. probably looking an ass

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Clive Menzies
On (25/03/04 14:41), Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 06:10:56PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I've personally found the Debian community to be an equal opportunity kind of place. Help is given

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Kent West penned: Wow! I must be a throwback to the 1950's. All these answers from guys sound so politically correct to me. Politically correct, honest -- take your pick =) My remembrance of Monique's first post and my first response was that I gave my best effort at an

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Number Six
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 01:49:09PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, Kent West penned: get some flowers from their men (whereas most men getting flowers would think, um, okay). But just because women are different than Actually, whenever I've sent flowers to a guy, they've been

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Brian Nelson
Number Six [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I got these scented candles to keep my apartment from stinking and boy it felt kind of fruity. I like White Russians which is a girlie drink but at least you have the Big Lebowski to fall back on :-) Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh,

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Kent West
Monique Y. Herman wrote: I think you'd have to be incredibly smooth to pull off that husband line without sounding like a jerk. I wouldn't say it to a 20-year old girl; but a 35-year old who's beginning to question her fading youthful appeal or a 45-year old seems to brighten up on hearing it,

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Andreas Janssen
Hello Monique Y. Herman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On 2004-03-25, Andreas Janssen penned: So far I have not seen any hostility towards women because they were female (at least on the mailing lists and in the usenet groups I read). I have however seen that in some cases people (newbies)

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Kent West penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: Outside of the dating scene and maybe someone who is visibly pregnant, why would you treat women any differently than men? Because women _are_ different than men, regardless of the populist notion in the 70's and 80's to the

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: Yes, I certainly was *not* thinking that only men are rigorous. I meant the second thing. What I was clumsily trying to say is that the stereotype is silly, but I like an environment you have to be afraid to ask questions, because it makes me work harder.

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ That one elicited about the loudest flamefest I've ever seen, in [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you can find that thread in their archives, and stand to wade through it all, you

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Number Six penned: Without countering anything you just said (cause I agree with you), I'd like to insert an aside about Why I Liked Going To Grateful Dead Concerts Even Though I'm Really Square And Uptight: It's one of the only places I've ever been where I was just free to

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-25, Steve Witt penned: I've been on many technical mailing lists since the early '90s and the Debian lists since about '96 and I don't recall seeing much flaming due to gender. I'm not a woman so maybe I'm completely insensitive to it when it happens, but I don't recall seeing much

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Leo Spalteholz
On March 25, 2004 04:12 pm, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ That one elicited about the loudest flamefest I've ever seen, in [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you can find that thread

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Kent West
Monique Y. Herman wrote: what I should have asked, and meant to ask, is, *how* would you treat women any differently than men? Especially when your only medium is the keyboard. Well, not only me, but everyone else in this thread has allowed this thread to go on quite a while without someone

RE: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Matthew Joyce
-Original Message- From: Leo Spalteholz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 26 March 2004 1:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: debian and women? from DWN #10 On March 25, 2004 04:12 pm, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, s. keeling penned: Incoming from

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Steve Lamb
Monique Y. Herman wrote: Sure, there are some quantifiable differences (and many that we could argue about till the cows come home); what I should have asked, and meant to ask, is, *how* would you treat women any differently than men? Especially when your only medium is the keyboard. I have

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread s. keeling
Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: sore point for me at the moment. I'm pretty sure I'll be changing my name to make him happy, but it weirds me out. I never fantasized about Why?!? Tell him to change his own damn name! When he refuses, ask him why! This annoys me on a computing level too.

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread s. keeling
Incoming from Kent West: Monique Y. Herman wrote: what I should have asked, and meant to ask, is, *how* would you treat women any differently than men? Especially when your only medium is the keyboard. Well, not only me, but everyone else in this thread has allowed this thread to go on

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Number Six
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 10:45:28PM -0700, s. keeling wrote: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: sore point for me at the moment. I'm pretty sure I'll be changing my name to make him happy, but it weirds me out. I never fantasized about Why?!? Tell him to change his own damn name! When

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread s. keeling
Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: On 2004-03-25, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ That one elicited about the loudest flamefest I've ever seen, in [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you can find that thread in their

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Emma Jane Hogbin
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 10:24:09PM -0600, Kent West wrote: One way I treated one of the women on this list (you? Emma?) differently is like I said earlier; I posted something like Cool! A woman and she's a geek! slobber slobber slobber. It was inappropriate, sure, but even at that, I

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread s. keeling
Incoming from Matthew Joyce: I have read many more unpleasant posts towards people who use Microsoft products than towards women. Ah, but MS bashing has some basis in fact. After all, it's crap! friendly, there are still strong prejudices and some people do not hesitate before making

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Emma Jane Hogbin
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 05:12:50PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ I've been slowly wading through it. I honestly didn't find anything offensive in the document. I guess I should re-read it after I finish reading the flameage. Heh.

OT: last names (was: Re: debian and women? from DWN #10)

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: sore point for me at the moment. I'm pretty sure I'll be changing my name to make him happy, but it weirds me out. I never fantasized about Why?!? Tell him to change his own damn name! When he refuses, ask him why!

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, Number Six penned: I usually watch To The Contrary, the show about Women's issues on PBS on Fridays. Recently this subject came up, and all these journalists / manhattanites talked about how they and all their friends had started marriage with hyphenated names and just slowly

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, s. keeling penned: I was considering complaining (facetiously) about the lack of even an OT: in the subject line, but this subject is a bit of a sore spot with me, and I'd like to see some progress on it. See the link to the tldp discussion for a far less satisfying attempt at

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Alex Malinovich
On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 14:02, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, CW Harris penned: Yes. I have found that generalization men and women think about things in different ways, probably due to differing life experiences (cf. Monique's comment re: female getting weird email about her

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: I've been slowly wading through it. I honestly didn't find anything offensive in the document. I guess I should re-read it after I finish reading the flameage. It was mostly males who took offense at it, including me.

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, Kent West penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: what I should have asked, and meant to ask, is, *how* would you treat women any differently than men? Especially when your only medium is the keyboard. Well, not only me, but everyone else in this thread has allowed this thread to

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Niels L. Ellegaard
Leo Spalteholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My university has programs to encourage women to enroll in engineering and women tend to be favoured for jobs here but still the percentage of female engineering students is less than 5%. Why is that? No idea but certainly not because they are being

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Alex Malinovich
On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 16:28, Kent West wrote: Monique Y. Herman wrote: I think you'd have to be incredibly smooth to pull off that husband line without sounding like a jerk. I wouldn't say it to a 20-year old girl; but a 35-year old who's beginning to question her fading youthful

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, Leo Spalteholz penned: On March 25, 2004 04:12 pm, Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, s. keeling penned: Incoming from Monique Y. Herman: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ That one elicited about the loudest flamefest I've ever seen, in [EMAIL

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Alex Malinovich
On Thu, 2004-03-25 at 18:01, Monique Y. Herman wrote: --snip-- Sure, there are some quantifiable differences (and many that we could argue about till the cows come home); what I should have asked, and meant to ask, is, *how* would you treat women any differently than men? Especially when your

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Leo Spalteholz
On March 25, 2004 11:02 pm, Niels L. Ellegaard wrote: Leo Spalteholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My university has programs to encourage women to enroll in engineering and women tend to be favoured for jobs here but still the percentage of female engineering students is less than 5%. Why

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On 2004-03-26, Steve Lamb penned: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --enig45DB75C5E7FD374844766632 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Monique Y. Herman wrote: Sure, there are some quantifiable

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-25 Thread Erik Steffl
Monique Y. Herman wrote: On 2004-03-25, Gary penned: Monique Y. Herman wrote: Any guys have opinions? Why ask us men? We can't even see the ketchup in the fridge when it is staring us in the face, and you expect us to to see /this/? I never did figure that one out. Why do I remember where my

debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-24 Thread Monique Y. Herman
I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty in dealing with any technically-oriented online forum; if anything, I've found that some people

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-24 Thread Paul Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Monique Y. Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-24 Thread Kenward Vaughan
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 06:10:56PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty in dealing with any

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-24 Thread Katipo
Monique Y. Herman wrote: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of hostility or difficulty in dealing with any technically-oriented online forum; if anything,

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-24 Thread Rebecca Dridan
(sorry about the direct reply Monique) On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 06:10:56PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: I just saw this in Debian Weekly News issue ten: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200403/msg00067.html I guess I just wonder. I've never found any sort of

Re: debian and women? from DWN #10

2004-03-24 Thread Number Six
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 06:31:23PM +1100, Rebecca Dridan wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 06:10:56PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: Any women out there? Have you found debian and/or other OSS or technical groups to be difficult, possibly because you're female? I've never found any problems