Status: RO
X-Mutt-PGP: S0xC492F812
Am 2005-10-13 21:15:03, schrieb William Ballard:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:05:06PM -0400, Chris Humphries wrote:
My mistake then :)
OpenBSD makes a smokin firewall. One floppy, an old P90 laptop w/ 90MB of
ram, a few
questions, a few lines of
On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 03:54:29PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
And it's not like Debian is as hard to install as it used to be. And,
I *think* Ubuntu uses the Sarge installer. I looked at Ubuntu as a
quick test, and I remember at least the first few screens are the
same.
Very similar, with
Hi, Joey.
On Oct 12 2005, Joey Hess wrote:
Rogério Brito wrote:
The Ubuntu people are synchronizing their work with Debian all the
time
Ubuntu has a general policy of not sending patches back to Debian
developers.
I didn't know that.
They make their patches available on a website in
Duncan Anderson wrote:
I have to agree with John. Ubuntu can't be called commercialized.
It's free of charge and will always be free of charge, according to
their website. Popularized may be a better word to use.
(From dictionary.com)
Commercial -
adj.
1. a. Of or relating to commerce:
* Antony Gelberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005 Oct 13 07:35 -0500]:
Steve Lamb wrote:
Juraj Fedel wrote:
Is it possible to instal Ubuntu or Knoppix and then to cotinue
with installing packages from Sarge? (Only CD available - no
network download possible.)
With Knoppix, generally yes.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 08:33:42PM -0600, Nate Duehr wrote:
Some people find the Ubuntu spin-off inappropriate (why didn't they just
donate to Debian and try to get a commitment on release cycles?), and
others have embraced it and are all fuzzy warm about it. Whatever.
Me? I just kick
William Ballard wrote:
They *always* come back to Debian, because only the curmudeony wierd old it's
good for
developers is what your really want. You can't mix the idea of Debian with a
company
and have it last, because you're abandoning the only thing that makes Debian
worth a
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 04:50:16PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
I'm a developer now?! Cool!
Nor am I. But I heard that said we don't care if anybody uses it but us
comment a
couple years ago and I thought it was a good idea. Of course the OpenBSD
people (all
5000 of 'em) wonder why
+--
| On (13/10/05 19:44), William Ballard wrote:
|
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| From: William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:44:26 -0400
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
+--
| On (13/10/05 19:55), William Ballard wrote:
|
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| From: William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:55:05 -0400
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 08:21:28PM -0400, Chris Humphries wrote:
I think everyone should try each out and then decide what is best for them.
Most likely there will not be something that will fit everything, though
debian is pretty close [it is used on most my production and development
2005 19:55:05 -0400
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
|
| On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 04:50:16PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
| I'm a developer now?! Cool!
|
| Nor am I. But I heard that said we don't care if anybody uses it but us
comment a
| couple years ago and I thought
On 11. October 2005 at 9:08PM -0400,
Sam Rosenfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu,
and knoppix distros?
Ubuntu (Live) and Knoppix are obviously more user-friendly than
Debian proper (since both doesn't require the new user to go
through
+--
| On (13/10/05 20:38), William Ballard wrote:
|
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| From: William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:38:17 -0400
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 01:28:37AM +0100, Antony Gelberg wrote:
left behind *shiver*. This is of course because I'm now running Window
Maker on Sarge, and I can't get much more earthy unless I move to ratpoison.
I'm sure in a post-y mood.
I now have multimon: a 1280x1024 with 3 transparent
+--
| On (13/10/05 20:43), William Ballard wrote:
|
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| From: William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:43:35 -0400
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:05:06PM -0400, Chris Humphries wrote:
My mistake then :)
OpenBSD makes a smokin firewall. One floppy, an old P90 laptop w/ 90MB of ram,
a few
questions, a few lines of pf.conf, and I haven't touched it in a year.
Absolutely rock
solid. It makes Linux look
On Thursday 13 October 2005 09:15 pm, William Ballard wrote:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:05:06PM -0400, Chris Humphries wrote:
My mistake then :)
OpenBSD makes a smokin firewall. One floppy, an old P90 laptop w/ 90MB of
ram, a few questions, a few lines of pf.conf, and I haven't touched it
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:29:32PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
Link please?
Have their been remote 'xploits in OpenBSD since spring 04?
Should I be worried?
It's pretty much a vanilla minimial OpenBSD, with only enough to run pf, pretty
much
word-for-word matching http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/
%% William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
wb OpenBSD makes a smokin firewall. One floppy, an old P90 laptop w/
wb 90MB of ram, a few questions, a few lines of pf.conf, and I
wb haven't touched it in a year. Absolutely rock solid. It makes
wb Linux look absolutely amateur for that
Chris Humphries wrote:
If you (second person plural) . . .
That would be y'all.
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On Thursday 13 October 2005 09:51 pm, William Ballard wrote:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 09:29:32PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
Link please?
Have their been remote 'xploits in OpenBSD since spring 04?
Should I be worried?
It's pretty much a vanilla minimial OpenBSD, with only enough to run pf,
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 10:00:50PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
So it's not a special distro, like Coyote Linux or something like that?
You just start with one floppy and it downloads the rest via FTP. It installs
to HD.
I really liked the installer :-)
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Antony Gelberg wrote:
Something else to ponder. Show me an MSCE with their narrow viewpoint
and lack of first-principles, and I'll show you a man who prefers
Windows. Show me an engineer who understands and uses *nix and Windows,
and I'll show you a man who prefers *nix.
Does keeping
+--
| On (13/10/05 22:30), William Ballard wrote:
|
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| From: William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:30:53 -0400
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 11:00:23PM -0400, Chris Humphries wrote:
+--
| On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 10:00:50PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
| So it's not a special distro, like Coyote Linux or something like that?
It is
On Thursday 13 October 2005 11:30 pm, William Ballard wrote:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 11:00:23PM -0400, Chris Humphries wrote:
+
--
| On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 10:00:50PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
| So it's not a
On (11/10/05 21:08), Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
Leaving aside the ensuing debate on 'freeness':
Debian gives to access to the full Debian universe in 3 flavours:
stable, testing and unstable
Ubuntu is derived from
I got started with knoppix--a painless entry into linux. After numerous
upgrades, I might? say I am very nearly Debian.
Ubuntu--I have heard good things about it but also some not-so-good
things--not about the distro, but politics.
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On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 09:02:56PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Nate Duehr wrote:
(why didn't they just donate to Debian and try to get a commitment
on release cycles?)
that'd be too easy ... and probably because they can't call it their
own widget
No, it'd be nigh-on
i don't understand all these variants. why not just continue with debian
alone? if you find some way to improve on debian, why use it to produce
another branch? E.g. the bootable cd of Knoppix, why not just have a
bootable cd for debian?
kangja
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On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 06:03:51PM +0800, kangja wrote:
i don't understand all these variants. why not just continue with
debian alone? if you find some way to improve on debian, why use it to
produce another branch? E.g. the bootable cd of Knoppix, why not just
have a bootable cd for debian?
On (12/10/05 10:53), Antony Gelberg wrote:
Clive Menzies wrote:
On (11/10/05 21:08), Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
Leaving aside the ensuing debate on 'freeness':
Debian gives to access to the full
: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
|
|
| hi ya
|
| On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
|
| What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
| knoppix distros?
|
| i'll bite on the bait/lure ..
|
| imho...
| - debian ... free ...
| - ubuntu ... commercialized
+--
| On (11/10/05 20:33), Nate Duehr wrote:
|
| Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:33:42 -0600
| From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
|
| Steve Lamb
+--
| On (11/10/05 21:02), Alvin Oga wrote:
|
| Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:02:56 -0700 (PDT)
| From: Alvin Oga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
|
|
| hi ya
+--
| On (12/10/05 10:53), Antony Gelberg wrote:
|
| From: Antony Gelberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
| Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:53:25 +0100
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
|
| Clive
+--
| On (12/10/05 12:36), Clive Menzies wrote:
|
| Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:36:25 +0100
| From: Clive Menzies [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
|
| On (12
John Hasler wrote:
Alvin Oga writes:
- ubuntu ... commercialized version of debian's hard work which to me
is wrong to do..
We Debian developers don't see anything wrong with it.
Besides, Ubuntu is available free. They will even send you free CDs,
postage-paid. It's also only one
+--
| On (12/10/05 18:03), kangja wrote:
|
| Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:03:51 +0800
| From: kangja [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| Subject: Re: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
|
| i don't
Duncan Anderson writes:
I have to agree with John. Ubuntu can't be called commercialized. It's
free of charge and will always be free of charge, according to their
website. Popularized may be a better word to use.
I'd call Ubuntu commercial, but I see nothing wrong with
that. Commercial and
On (12/10/05 09:03), Chris Humphries wrote:
I at one time had programs written to update a user's environment when they
logged in (set up the desktop, check for updates, upload whatever, etc).
This should be simple for debian (and others) based systems, by running the
script to verify that a
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Chris Humphries wrote:
Obviously, you have no idea what Ubuntu is. Nice try though.
Ubuntu will never be a commercialized linux, and even will mail
you cds for free. It seems to be organized better and just works
without having to hack things around. Ubuntu being
Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
However, what really turns some people on to Debian turns me off --
especially the package manager criteria for including not-quite-pure
executables (e.g., pine) in most of the distributions. I know my mild
comment will light a roaring conflagration, but I won't participate
Chris Humphries wrote:
+--
| On (11/10/05 20:33), Nate Duehr wrote:
|
| Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:33:42 -0600
| From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 09:02:56PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
just because you disagree doesn't mean you are right and i am wrong
You're right. Just because I disagree doesn't make me right and you
wrong. What makes me right and you wrong is the fact that I checked my
sources (Ubuntu's page),
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 09:08:49PM -0400, Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
sam
Is it possible to instal Ubuntu or Knoppix and then to cotinue
with installing packages from Sarge? (Only CD available - no
network
+--
| On (12/10/05 19:44), Juraj Fedel wrote:
|
| Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:44:53 +0200
| From: Juraj Fedel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
| Subject: Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix
|
| On Tue, Oct
On onsdag 12 oktober 2005, 11:53, Antony Gelberg wrote:
Of course, I'm also tempted to install Sarge with KDE, OpenOffice,
Mozilla etc. How un-user friendly can that be. ;)
Not unfriendly at all! :-) If you are prepared to manage the box...
It is installing and tweaking config options to be
Juraj Fedel wrote:
Is it possible to instal Ubuntu or Knoppix and then to cotinue
with installing packages from Sarge? (Only CD available - no
network download possible.)
With Knoppix, generally yes. With Ubuntu, no.
Knoppix provides a way to copy the CD onto a partition and make it
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Antony Gelberg wrote:
An interesting answer to the question that I was going to ask. I've
just installed a mew HD in my parents' computer. They are not exactly
knowledgeable users, they've been using XP, and I was trying to decide
between Knoppix and Ubuntu (having
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, kangja wrote:
i don't understand all these variants. why not just continue with debian
alone?
because:
a) they can
b) they want to have their own label (they can sell it in various forms)
c) they want to improve it in ways they want
d) tney can sell it
e) they don't
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Jon Dowland wrote:
Afaik knoppix is the first bootable CD distribution.
slackware was always a standalone live distro from its beginnings
i don't know if there was other standalone cd before knippix
based on debian
c ya
alvin
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Juraj Fedel wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 09:08:49PM -0400, Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
sam
Is it possible to instal Ubuntu or Knoppix and then to cotinue
with installing packages from Sarge? (Only CD
On Wednesday 12 October 2005 03:43 pm, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
Juraj Fedel wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 09:08:49PM -0400, Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
sam
Is it possible to instal Ubuntu or Knoppix and then
hi ya steve
relax .. have a beer... i agree
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Steve C. Lamb wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 09:02:56PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
just because you disagree doesn't mean you are right and i am wrong
You're right. Just because I disagree doesn't make me right and you
On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 06:03:51PM +0800, kangja wrote:
i don't understand all these variants. why not just continue with debian
alone? if you find some way to improve on debian, why use it to produce
another branch? E.g. the bootable cd of Knoppix, why not just have a
bootable cd for debian?
Alvin Oga wrote:
- it is commercialized, in my view, because they provide support
for and is NOT free
Amazingly enough lots of places do that for many different programs.
Generally one being paid for support is good.
- it is NOT commercialized if you cannot buy the
On Wednesday 12 October 2005 07:37 pm, Steve Lamb wrote:
Alvin Oga wrote:
- it is commercialized, in my view, because they provide support
for and is NOT free
Amazingly enough lots of places do that for many different programs.
Generally one being paid for support is good.
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Hal Vaughan wrote:
On Wednesday 12 October 2005 07:37 pm, Steve Lamb wrote:
- it is NOT commercialized if you cannot buy the pre-packaged
CD's at the regular stores, but i could have and still would have
sworn i saw ubuntu at the local stores packaged in
On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 01:36:11PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
- it is commercialized, in my view, because they provide support
for and is NOT free
( support for $$$ is a good thing
and if you don't like their support pkg, you can get
On Oct 12 2005, Alvin Oga wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, kangja wrote:
i don't understand all these variants. why not just continue with debian
alone?
because:
e) they don't know how to provide patches/enhancements/new-packages into
the main debian core
Please, don't spread FUD or
On Oct 12 2005, Carl Fink wrote:
One of the beauties of Free software is that one group can take the
software base, fork off their own project, and do it their way.
And, then, merge back the good things to the original project, if that
proves to be useful.
See what has happened with mutt after
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, [iso-8859-1] Rogério Brito wrote:
On Oct 12 2005, Alvin Oga wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, kangja wrote:
i don't understand all these variants. why not just continue with debian
alone?
because:
e) they don't know how to provide patches/enhancements/new-packages
Rogério Brito wrote:
The Ubuntu people are synchronizing their work with Debian all the time
Ubuntu has a general policy of not sending patches back to Debian
developers. They make their patches available on a website in lumps[1]
of varying utility and expect Debian to go look at them and
Rogério Brito wrote:
See what has happened with mutt after the muttng fork was created. See
the same thing with Debian adopting more and more the team
maintainership of packages after Ubuntu.
I think that any implication that Ubuntu somehow led Debian toward more
team maintenance of packages
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
sam
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hi ya
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
i'll bite on the bait/lure ..
imho...
- debian ... free ...
- ubuntu ... commercialized version of debian's hard work
which
Alvin Oga wrote:
- debian ... free ...
- ubuntu ... commercialized version of debian's hard work
which to me is wrong to do.. but oh well..
Uhhh, Alvin, you've been spreading a lot of disinformation on this list
lately. I mean a LOT of disinformation. This is a
Alvin Oga writes:
- ubuntu ... commercialized version of debian's hard work which to me
is wrong to do..
We Debian developers don't see anything wrong with it.
Besides, Ubuntu is available free. They will even send you free CDs,
postage-paid. It's also only one of about 100 Debian-based
Steve Lamb wrote:
Alvin Oga wrote:
- debian ... free ...
- ubuntu ... commercialized version of debian's hard work
which to me is wrong to do.. but oh well..
Uhhh, Alvin, you've been spreading a lot of disinformation on this list
lately. I mean a LOT of
Alvin Oga wrote:
- ubuntu ... commercialized version of debian's hard work
which to me is wrong to do.. but oh well..
Isn't that the way open source project works can be used by others e.g.
the gazillions of debian based distros?
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Nate Duehr wrote:
http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing/document_view
and this too
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth
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Nate Duehr wrote:
Actually, they have three repositories, main, restricted and
universal, and different licensing for each. Some of Ubuntu is
definitely not Free Software.
A, yes. You mean like, main, contrib and non-free?
He just has a slightly different viewpoint than yours.
hi ya steve
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Nate Duehr wrote:
Steve Lamb wrote:
Alvin Oga wrote:
- debian ... free ...
- ubuntu ... commercialized version of debian's hard work
which to me is wrong to do.. but oh well..
Uhhh, Alvin, you've been spreading a lot of
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 09:48 pm, Alvin Oga wrote:
hi ya
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Sam Rosenfeld wrote:
What are the major differences among the latest debian, ubuntu, and
knoppix distros?
i'll bite on the bait/lure ..
imho...
- debian ... free ...
- ubuntu ...
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