libgnutls
Bonjour, Chez moi, Jessie à jour (normalement) en amd64, j'ai une dépendance de Libreoffice (et google-chrome) sur libgnutls.so.26, qui n'existe pas/plus. Une dépendance sur ldd, ce qui fait que l'appli ne se lance pas en disant qu'elle ne trouve pas la lib. J'ai une libgnutls-deb0-28, et pas 26 Ça vous dit quelque chose ? Ce qui m'étonne, c'est que je n'ai pas trouvé de référence sur G. là-dessus, ce qui laisserait à penser que c'est chez moi que ça déconne. Merci. -- jm -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115104717.GD2840@espinasse
Re: libgnutls
Le Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:47:17 +0100, Jean-Michel OLTRA jm.oltra.antis...@espinasse.net a écrit : Bonjour, Chez moi, Jessie à jour (normalement) en amd64, j'ai une dépendance de Libreoffice (et google-chrome) sur libgnutls.so.26, qui n'existe pas/plus. Une dépendance sur ldd, ce qui fait que l'appli ne se lance pas en disant qu'elle ne trouve pas la lib. J'ai une libgnutls-deb0-28, et pas 26 Ça vous dit quelque chose ? Ce qui m'étonne, c'est que je n'ai pas trouvé de référence sur G. là-dessus, ce qui laisserait à penser que c'est chez moi que ça déconne. Merci. Ça c'est l'inconvénient de Testing. Perso j'utilise aussi les dépots de Unstable avec un pinning à 100, ça me permet de ne pas être bloqué avec des paquets qui manquent transitoirement. Ceci étant en jetant juste un coup œil rapide j'ai une version .28 -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115120937.41eeb367@azuki.jisui
Re: libgnutls
Le Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:47:17 +0100 Jean-Michel OLTRA jm.oltra.antis...@espinasse.net a écrit: Bonjour, Chez moi, Jessie à jour (normalement) en amd64, j'ai une dépendance de Libreoffice (et google-chrome) sur libgnutls.so.26, qui n'existe pas/plus. Une dépendance sur ldd, ce qui fait que l'appli ne se lance pas en disant qu'elle ne trouve pas la lib. J'ai une libgnutls-deb0-28, et pas 26 Ça vous dit quelque chose ? Ce qui m'étonne, c'est que je n'ai pas trouvé de référence sur G. là-dessus, ce qui laisserait à penser que c'est chez moi que ça déconne. Merci. Bizarre je suis aussi en testing amd64 et je n'ai pas ce problème... Voici ce que retourne apt-show-versions | grep gnutls libcurl3-gnutls:amd64/jessie 7.38.0-3 uptodate libcurl4-gnutls-dev:amd64/jessie 7.38.0-3 uptodate libgnutls-deb0-28:amd64/jessie 3.3.8-4 uptodate libgnutls-deb0-28:i386/jessie 3.3.8-4 uptodate libgnutls-openssl27:amd64/jessie 3.3.8-4 uptodate libgnutlsxx28:amd64/jessie 3.3.8-4 uptodate libneon27-gnutls:amd64/jessie 0.30.1-1 uptodate libxmlsec1-gnutls:amd64/jessie 1.2.20-2+b1 uptodate Gaëtan -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115130738.05d13fe56922a66fd9b1e...@neuf.fr
Re: libgnutls
Bonjour, Le samedi 15 novembre 2014, Gaëtan PERRIER a écrit... Bizarre je suis aussi en testing amd64 et je n'ai pas ce problème... Mince. Bizarre. libgnutls-deb0-28:amd64/jessie 3.3.8-4 uptodate Ce qui voudrait dire que c'est mon libreoffice qui pose problème ? Qu'as tu comme version de libreoffice ? Perso, j'ai la 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 Merci. -- jm -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115123221.GE2840@espinasse
Re: libgnutls
Le Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:32:21 +0100 Jean-Michel OLTRA jm.oltra.antis...@espinasse.net a écrit: Ce qui voudrait dire que c'est mon libreoffice qui pose problème ? Qu'as tu comme version de libreoffice ? Perso, j'ai la 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 J'ai la même ... Par contre quand tu dis que tu as google chrome tu parles de chromium des dépôts debian ou du paquet google-chrome de google ? Dans ce dernier cas est-ce que ça ne serait pas lui qui de par ses dépendances bloquerait une mise à jour ? Gaëtan -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115134456.248a685c54b8e84a90b1a...@neuf.fr
Re: Màj owncloud
Le 2014-11-14 05:10, Vincent Besse a écrit : J' ai un phénomène curieux avec les mises à jour de owncloud sur wheezy depuis le dépôt officiel d' opensuse. Pourquoi ne pas utiliser la version qui est dans le dépôt Backports? F. -- Fabián Rodríguez - XMPP/Jabber+OTR: magic...@member.fsf.org http://debian.magicfab.ca signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Màj owncloud
celle du backports n'est pas à jour (7.0.2). Pour la dernière mise à jour il faut taper dans la testing ou unstable (7.0.3) Le 15 nov. 2014 16:01, Fabián Rodríguez magic...@member.fsf.org a écrit : Le 2014-11-14 05:10, Vincent Besse a écrit : J' ai un phénomène curieux avec les mises à jour de owncloud sur wheezy depuis le dépôt officiel d' opensuse. Pourquoi ne pas utiliser la version qui est dans le dépôt Backports? F. -- Fabián Rodríguez - XMPP/Jabber+OTR: magic...@member.fsf.org http://debian.magicfab.ca
Re: Màj owncloud
Le 15 nov. 2014 16:01, Fabián Rodríguez magic...@member.fsf.org mailto:magic...@member.fsf.org a écrit : Le 2014-11-14 05:10, Vincent Besse a écrit : J' ai un phénomène curieux avec les mises à jour de owncloud sur wheezy depuis le dépôt officiel d' opensuse. Pourquoi ne pas utiliser la version qui est dans le dépôt Backports? Le 2014-11-15 10:57, Belaïd a écrit : celle du backports n'est pas à jour (7.0.2). Pour la dernière mise à jour il faut taper dans la testing ou unstable (7.0.3) Si c'est le besoin principal, OK, mais je me demandais s'il y avait une autre raison particulière. F. -- Fabián Rodríguez - XMPP/Jabber+OTR: magic...@member.fsf.org http://debian.magicfab.ca signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [troll] PC portable compatible Debian
LO, On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 08:06:53PM +0100, andre_deb...@numericable.fr wrote: [...] Je vais mettre tout le monde d'accord : Achetez une * Surface Pro * : C'est tout sauf un troll du vendredi, justement ;) [...] On Friday 14 November 2014 17:50:23 steve wrote: Je plussoie, c'est vraiment du bon matos ! : ... effectivement, tous les tests hardware sont unanimes ! le portable tactile + clavier démontable (tablette) est petit, fin et très facile à transporter. Exact ;) Reste encore un moment pour entendre les retours d'expérience. Et aussi voir si c'est vrai que MS va sortir une version 13 ou 14 ? http://geeko.lesoir.be/2014/11/05/microsoft-preparerait-de-nouvelles-surface-pro-de-13-et-14/ Reste à savoir si on peut y installer Linux... Oui :-) http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-install-linux-on-surface-pro-3/ Une Debian, même :-) (Faut juste patcher un fichier du noyau pour que le clavier type cover soit fonctionnel.) Les prix démarrent à un montant raisonnable (performance faible) Il est conseillé de prendre une gamme pro, mais très cher. C'est relatif : on parle de ± 1.400 € pour un i5 avec un SSD décent. Pour quelqu'un qui compte bosser dessus et qui a besoin de ce que l'engin propose, ça reste un prix certes, mais c'est pas « cher » IMHO. À titre de comparaison, les Stylistic ST5/6xxx de Fujitsu (des tablets PC, pas les jouets qui sont venus après) allaient chercher dans les 2.000 € neuves, déjà il y a ± 10 ans d'ici. Mais c'étaient des pures « slates », absolument parfaites pour certains usages (debout, prise de notes manuscrites, consultation de fichiers, etc.), mais globalement en deçà de ce que propose la SP3 puisqu'elle rajoute un mode laptop sans augmenter le setup (avec les STxxx, tout ça est ajouté, donc faut avoir avec soi et transporter...), et pour un poids de moitié :-) A+ -- JFS. -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115170057.ga1...@jones.jfs.dt
Re: libgnutls
Bonjour, Le samedi 15 novembre 2014, Gaëtan PERRIER a écrit... J'ai la même ... Par contre quand tu dis que tu as google chrome tu parles de chromium des dépôts debian ou du paquet google-chrome de google ? Dans ce dernier cas est-ce que ça ne serait pas lui qui de par ses dépendances bloquerait une mise à jour ? J'ai le chrome de Google. J'ai désactivé sa mise à jour, mais c'est pareil. Ce qui est un peu normal. J'ai les paquets à jour, semble t-il, mais le ldd sur /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin montre une dépendance sur la libgnutls.so.26. Je me demande bien pourquoi. /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgnutls.so.26: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory -- jm -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115171112.GF2840@espinasse
Re: libgnutls
Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:11:12 +0100 Jean-Michel OLTRA jm.oltra.antis...@espinasse.net écrivait : Bonjour, salut Jean-Michel, [...] pareil. Ce qui est un peu normal. J'ai les paquets à jour, semble t-il, mais le ldd sur /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin montre une dépendance sur la libgnutls.so.26. Je me demande bien pourquoi. soffice.bin appartient au paquet libreoffice-core : $ apt-file search /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin libreoffice-core: /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin Qu'est-ce que donne un apt-cache policy libreoffice-core ? Et un /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin --version ? Chez moi, Jessie à jour, ça donne ça : $ apt-cache policy libreoffice-core libreoffice-core: Installé : 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 Candidat : 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 Table de version : 1:4.3.3-1 0 100 http://ftp.be.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages *** 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 0 500 http://ftp.be.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status $ /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin --version LibreOffice 4.3.3.2 430m0(Build:2) /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgnutls.so.26: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Et pas d'utilisation de la version 26 de libgnutls mais de la version 28 : $ ldd /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin | grep gnutls libgnutls-deb0.so.28 = /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgnutls-deb0.so.28 (0x7f77e4067000) Bizarre. Comme une inconsistance ou un soucis dans les mises à jour. Une sortie pour un dpkg --audit ? -- jm Jean-Marc jean-m...@6jf.be pgp_ip7qhoaYL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: libgnutls
Bonjour, Le samedi 15 novembre 2014, Jean-Marc a écrit... soffice.bin appartient au paquet libreoffice-core : $ apt-file search /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin libreoffice-core: /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin Oui. Qu'est-ce que donne un apt-cache policy libreoffice-core ? Chez moi, Jessie à jour, ça donne ça : $ apt-cache policy libreoffice-core libreoffice-core: Installé : 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 Candidat : 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 Table de version : 1:4.3.3-1 0 100 http://ftp.be.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages *** 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 0 500 http://ftp.be.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status Pareil, presque : libreoffice-core: Installé : 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 Candidat : 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 Table de version : *** 1:4.3.3~rc2-1 0 500 http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status J'ai testing/main, et pas unstable/main $ /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin --version LibreOffice 4.3.3.2 430m0(Build:2) Ça, je ne peux pas l'avoir, car j'ai l'erreur sur la liaison avec libgnutls.so.26 Bizarre. Comme une inconsistance ou un soucis dans les mises à jour. Une sortie pour un dpkg --audit ? Ben, rien du tout, ni pour libreoffice-core, ni pour le reste -- jm -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115203458.GG2840@espinasse
Re: [HS] Microsoft s'ouvre t-elle à l'opensource ?
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 07:56:02AM +0100, FGK wrote: Même avec le Contributor Agreement de Canonical (qui est tout de même moins violent que celui de .NET Fondation si mes souvenirs ne me trompent pas ?), Pour la forme, j'ai vérifié les CLA /Individual/[1] et /Entity/[2] de Canonical et effectivement ça n'a pas beaucoup à voir avec ce que propose .NET Fondation. Dans le cas de Canonical, le contributeur concerve les droits et la licence sur son code non intégré au projet ; simplement il concède dès la soumission, et par exception à sa licence, des droits à Canonical qui permettent à celui-ci de faire ce qu'il veut du code. Rien n'empêche donc le contributeur de réutiliser comme bon lui semble son code, sa fonction ou son idée dans d'autres projets. En cas de conflit entre les deux propriétaires, on peut résoudre ça devant un juge qui normalement devrait favoriser la partie au contrat la plus lésée (il existe d'ailleurs peut-être un cas d'espèce afin de voir ce qu'il s'est passé dans la réalité ?). Cela va déjà à l'encontre de la coutume (au sens social et juridique du terme) dans la communauté libre et open source, mais certains ont des arguments en ce sens pourvu que cela reste mesuré[3]. Mais ce que fait .NET Fondation est d'un tout autre registre. En effet, dès la soumission, le contributeur concède *totalement* ses droits. Si le projet n'est pas accepté pour intégration, le code reste malgré tout la propriété de la Fondation. Impossible pour le contributeur de proposer son code, sa fonction ou son idée à un autre projet. C'est comme si vous écriviez un article pour une revue A. La revue A refuse l'article. Vous le proposez alors à la revue B. Et ainsi de suite jusqu'à ce que vous trouviez preneur. En signant le CLA de .NET Fondation, vous proposez votre article à la revue A. Celle-ci refuse. Mais l'article reste sa propriété pleine et entière. Impossible pour le rédacteur de proposer son article (qui n'est dès lors plus le sien) à une autre revue sans enfreindre les termes du contrat et donc du droit Par conséquent, je ne pense donc pas que l'assimilation de la CLA de .NET Fondation à celles de Canonical ou de la FSF soit judicieuse --- on est dans deux mondes différents. Par contre, il faudrait regarder du côté de ce que fait Google. M'est avis, par instinct, qu'on ne doit pas en être loin... Mais je ne me suis pas penché sur la question, je ne peux pas être catégorique. 1. http://assets.ubuntu.com/sites/ubuntu/1236/u/files/section/legal/Canonical-HA-CLA-ANY-I_v1.2.pdf 2. http://assets.ubuntu.com/sites/ubuntu/1236/u/files/section/legal/Canonical-HA-CLA-ANY-E_v1.2.pdf 3. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling-exceptions.html F- -- -:%*- FGK f...@opmbx.org -*%:- http://f6k.github.io -:%*- -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.org/fr/FrenchLists Pour vous DESABONNER, envoyez un message avec comme objet unsubscribe vers debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org En cas de soucis, contactez EN ANGLAIS listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141116073228.GA13332@shyla
Re: Virtualizar
Jajajaja. Sorry. Si es posible hacer lo que estas preguntando, pero indudablemente es necesario leer un poco mas. Te recomiendo que comprendas más sobre demonios y servicios, procesos etc. Me gusta tu iniciativa y té felicito, pero lo que buscas es muy fácil encontrar en Internet, sólo hay que leer un poco mas. Salvador García Z. El 14/11/2014 22:46, javier frf francisco...@gmail.com escribió: El 15 de noviembre de 2014, 2:32, Yair De la cruz delacruzy...@gmail.com escribió: Buenas noches Pregunto por que tengo mucho curiosidad y quiero aprender Tengo Dos equipos 1 PC el otro Laptop Quiero hacer una red Local donde el PC quiero que trabaje como DNS y servidor (No se si se puede hacer eso soy nuevo en linux) y con el laptop puede consultar todo lo que archive en el Servidor, se que ustedes tiene muchos casos y mas importantes que este pero por favor ayudenme para hacerlo con algun link o un video que este en you tube para hacerlo Terminando la solicitud como hacer este tipo de cosas desde el principio. Saludos. que tiene que ver el titulo virtualizar, con lo montar un dns? si eres mas claro podriamos ayudarte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOPnX02oAMfANhUfrkpy=tvpu-x_e5avrk4v2ebjsktyszo...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Virtualizar
El día 15 de noviembre de 2014, 6:32, Yair De la cruz delacruzy...@gmail.com escribió: Buenas noches Pregunto por que tengo mucho curiosidad y quiero aprender Tengo Dos equipos 1 PC el otro Laptop Quiero hacer una red Local donde el PC quiero que trabaje como DNS y servidor (No se si se puede hacer eso soy nuevo en linux) y con el laptop puede consultar todo lo que archive en el Servidor, se que ustedes tiene muchos casos y mas importantes que este pero por favor ayudenme para hacerlo con algun link o un video que este en you tube para hacerlo Terminando la solicitud como hacer este tipo de cosas desde el principio. Saludos. Bueno, para comunicar dos máquinas no necesitas un dns. Con meter el nombre e IP de las maquinas en los respectivos archivos hosts es suficiente. Para compartir archivos tendrás que mirar cosas como samba o nfs. Ya tienes por donde empezar. S2. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAGw=rhjpuccn_+nmvviujgmfowu0bgtevmyr1zq6z6fakxb...@mail.gmail.com
(SOLUCIONADO) Gnome3 y problema inicio automatico de sesión con usuario
Con la actualización de hoy. gdm3 3.14.1-3 gir1.2-gdm3 3.14.1-3 :) -- www.LinuxCounter.net Registered user #558467 has 2 linux machines -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/m478lv$e7u$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: Virtualizar
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 01:02:11AM -0430, Yair De la cruz wrote: Tengo Dos equipos 1 PC el otro Laptop Quiero hacer una red Local donde el PC quiero que trabaje como DNS y servidor (No se si se puede hacer eso soy nuevo en linux) y con el laptop puede consultar todo lo que archive en el Servidor, [...] Me uno a los que te dicen que hay que leer un poco más y a los que te dicen que no te hace falta DNS para eso, pero te lo voy a poner un poco más concreto: Asígnale una IP fija, por ejemplo, 192.168.1.2, al que llamas PC. Pon esa IP en el /etc/hosts de ambos ordenadores. En el PC instalas el paquete apache2. Entonces en el portátil abres un navegador y en la barra de direcciones pones el nombre del PC según lo hayas puesto en /etc/hosts. Ya está. Lo que pongas en /var/www en el PC (/var/www/html en jessie) será visible desde el portátil con un simple navegador. Te faltó definir qué se entiende por consultar, si no era esto lo que querías, haber sido más específico. Por cierto, no confundamos las cosas, a usar un cliente en un ordenador para acceder a un servicio en otro ordenador no se le llama virtualizar. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115103346.ga29...@cantor.unex.es
Re: [OT] Re: Linux privatizado?
On Thursday 13 November 2014 11:14:09 Listas wrote: Pienso, que sigue dependiendo de los usuarios; el que se tenga algo que sea util para todos y que se mantenga un ambiente de cordialidad. Y depndera de los DDs, el que Debian vuelva a ser el Sistema Operativo Universal. ¿Y por qué no es el sistema operativo universal ahora? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7656835.rWvZzDZqYo@mychabol
Re: [OT] Re: Linux privatizado?
On Thursday 13 November 2014 11:14:09 Listas wrote: Pienso, que sigue dependiendo de los usuarios; el que se tenga algo que sea util para todos y que se mantenga un ambiente de cordialidad. Y depndera de los DDs, el que Debian vuelva a ser el Sistema Operativo Universal. ¿Y por qué no es el sistema operativo universal ahora? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1944812.kNA4oZFPv6@mychabol
Re: Linux privatizado?
On 11/15/2014 03:53 AM, Luis Felipe Tabera Alonso wrote: Es que quizas estas confundido Salvador En la lista, todos somos adultos y es mejor, por que podemos expresarnos libremente, respetando a los demas; Hurd quedo fuera de Jessie y si sigue Systemd comiendose a otros paquetes; ya no habra forma de usar nada que no sea Systemd; ademas de que systemd tiene un error de diseno que es irreparable. Bueno, pues crea un init que mejore el diseño de systemd, seguro que la gente lo adopta... En el caso de Linus Torvals, uno de los fundadores de Debian; no es el, quien supuestamente pretende privatizar Linux o GNU/Lnux, es Red Hat; y la creacion de documentos que generan rigidez, podria decirse que tiene su influencia; hay un doc que lo menciona. ECM_PRO_067658.pdf ¿Qué? Ahora me entero que torvalds fundó debian. . Hola Luis Felipe Tabera Por tus comentarios, deduzco que ni siquiera tendras capacidad para reconocer la O, por lo redondo! Tu mensaje es un ataque sin sentido, quizas deberias de sentir verguenza. Y desalojar tu furia, de otra forma. En la primera parte del, mensaje, me decis que me calle o que escriba codigo, esto no me lo dirias frente a frente; muy tipico del que se imagina que es un genio por que escribe algo en algun lenguaje de computadores; en la realidad esto se llama arrogancia, o sea cobardia encubierta; y no contribuye a mantener una comunidad sana. Te cuento que en casos de ausencia de alimentos; el codigo no te salvara de morir de hambre. En la comunidad Debian; no todos somos desarrolladores; y la mayoria de desarrolladores que yo conozco ni siquiera poseen grado universitario (motivo por el que les es imposible, ver detalles de diseno); por esa razon se engrandecen con lo de show me the code, das lastima al responder de esa forma. Lo de Linus Torvals y el sistema operativo universal; es mas de lo mismo; sos incapaz de saber la diferencia entre uno de los fundadores y el creador, o el Sistema Operativo Universal; pero es comprensible, la educacion no es para todos y para los necios menos! Mi intencion no es discutir tonterias con el primer disparatado que aparezca, solo menciono informacion que esta a mi alcance, y asumo que si te interesa, pues buscaras las respuestas en libros e internet. hasta luego. . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54676b61.90...@agronomos.ca
Re: Clamav
El Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:35:08 -0600, Frank Andres Sanches Calzada escribió: Hola Lista necesito poner actualizar el clamav atraves de un servidor proxy que necesita autenticacion. ya probe esto pero no me funciona DatabaseMirror http://downloads.azcuba.cu/Antivirus/Actualizaciones/clamav/ HTTPProxyServer 172.27.9.2 HTTPProxyPort 3128 ¿Y cuál es el error que te aparece registrado? Mira a ver si necesitas definir alguna variable más (usuario/contraseña) para conectarte a través de tu servidor proxy (man 5 freshclam.conf). Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.11.15.15.13...@gmail.com
Re: OT: Hay futuro más allá de Jessie
El Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:01:52 +0100, Manolo Díaz escribió: El viernes, 14 nov 2014 a las 19:31 horas (UTC+1), Camaleón escribió: Aunque claro, también es cierto que eso no es culpa de Debian ni de Linux. A toda versión de cualquier Sistema Operativo le llega el fin de soporte... ;) Claro, el problema es que con la llegada de systemd y su necesidad imperiosa de ir a la par con el kernel, ya no se respeta el ciclo de vida del propio kernel. Te veo obsesionada con esto de systemd. Claro que lo estoy, además de preocupada. Como sabes, esta última parte de la conversación iba de usar distros Debian antiguas, ya sabes, de cuando systemd no existía. Así que ¿cómo puede ser systemd un problema en estos casos? No debería serlo pero lo es desde el momento en el que tienes instalada una versión del kernel que está soportada y mantenida -tanto por la distribución como por el propio proyecto del kernel- en Debian (o cualquier otro sistema linux) junto con systemd. No veo qué te impide instalar systemd en Lenny, se supone que el nuevo sistema de gestión de servicios mantiene la compatibilidad con systemv así que nada te impide compilarlo (si no existe binario) e instalarlo en tu sistema porque sabrás que Debian, el sistema operativo universal es (o ha sido) lo suficientemente flexible como para permitir configurarlo al gusto más allá de lo que te dan precocinado ¿no? ¿Dónde queda la tan aclamada retrocompatibilidad? Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.11.15.15.34...@gmail.com
Re: Linux privatizado?
On Saturday 15 November 2014 07:04:01 Listas wrote: Hola Luis Felipe Tabera Por tus comentarios, deduzco que ni siquiera tendras capacidad para reconocer la O, por lo redondo! Tu mensaje es un ataque sin sentido, quizas deberias de sentir verguenza. Y desalojar tu furia, de otra forma. En la primera parte del, mensaje, me decis que me calle o que escriba codigo, esto no me lo dirias frente a frente; muy tipico del que se imagina que es un genio por que escribe algo en algun lenguaje de computadores; en la realidad esto se llama arrogancia, o sea cobardia encubierta; y no contribuye a mantener una comunidad sana. Te cuento que en casos de ausencia de alimentos; el codigo no te salvara de morir de hambre. En la comunidad Debian; no todos somos desarrolladores; y la mayoria de desarrolladores que yo conozco ni siquiera poseen grado universitario (motivo por el que les es imposible, ver detalles de diseno); por esa razon se engrandecen con lo de show me the code, das lastima al responder de esa forma. Lo de Linus Torvals y el sistema operativo universal; es mas de lo mismo; sos incapaz de saber la diferencia entre uno de los fundadores y el creador, o el Sistema Operativo Universal; pero es comprensible, la educacion no es para todos y para los necios menos! Mi intencion no es discutir tonterias con el primer disparatado que aparezca, solo menciono informacion que esta a mi alcance, y asumo que si te interesa, pues buscaras las respuestas en libros e internet. hasta luego. Ok, que eres un troll, no participaré más en tus aportaciones... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9030764.M24caLvKcv@mychabol
Re: OT Smokeping enviar alerta por Smtp externo
El Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:27:26 -0600, Alberto Corona escribió: (ese html...) Que tal Amigos instale sobre Debian 7 la herramienta Smokeping pero no eh encontrado la manera de que me envie correo de alertas cuando el servidor no tiene configurado un smtp local espero alguien pueda darme una mano Consulta la variable mailhost del archivo de configuración. Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.11.15.15.46...@gmail.com
Re: dudas en el firewall
El Fri, 14 Nov 2014 16:37:10 -0400, luis escribió: Tengo en el debian 7 64bit un shorewall y squid La duda es la siguiente, Todo estaba trabajando muy bien y de pronto deja de dar navegación a los usuarios. ¿Dejó de funcionar sin haber hecho ningún cambio? Trabaja con un HD de 500 GB y está vacio, por ende no es problema de espacio. Reinicio los servicios de squid y shorewall, nada de error y sin queja alguna, pero no podía navegar como cliente ni hacer nslookup para ver ip de google.com opr ej. Yo revisaría el registro de shorewall/iptables o de squid, tiene que aparecer al menos la conexión iniciada desde el equipo cliente y en caso afirmativo aparecerá la acción que haya ejecutado shorewall sobre esa conexión y el motivo. Para probar tomé una PC aparte con IP real para ver si era problema de mi ISP, pero no, todo estaba súper bien bien. Alguna idea...?? Agradezco toda ayuda Puedes consultar la guía de problemas de Shorewall, quizá te dé alguna idea: Shorewall Troubleshooting Guide http://shorewall.net/troubleshoot.htm Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.11.15.15.51...@gmail.com
Re: (SOLUCIONADO) Gnome3 y problema inicio automatico de sesión con usuario
El Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:08:00 +0100, Eduardo Rios escribió: Con la actualización de hoy. gdm3 3.14.1-3 gir1.2-gdm3 3.14.1-3 :) ¿Ya lo han resuelto? Pues menos mal, les ha costado 3 meses resolverlo :-) Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.11.15.15.55...@gmail.com
Re: Virtualizar
El Sat, 15 Nov 2014 01:02:11 -0430, Yair De la cruz escribió: Buenas noches Pregunto por que tengo mucho curiosidad y quiero aprender Tengo Dos equipos 1 PC el otro Laptop Quiero hacer una red Local donde el PC quiero que trabaje como DNS y servidor (No se si se puede hacer eso soy nuevo en linux) y con el laptop puede consultar todo lo que archive en el Servidor, se que ustedes tiene muchos casos y mas importantes que este pero por favor ayudenme para hacerlo con algun link o un video que este en you tube para hacerlo Terminando la solicitud como hacer este tipo de cosas desde el principio. No necesitas virtualizar para eso, simplemente instalar en el equipo de sobremesa un servidor DNS (p. ej., bind9) y configurar el portátil para que use al equipo de sobremesa como servidor de nombres. Además podrás usar el equipo de sobremesa para almacenar datos y acceder a ellos a modo de servidor de archivos. Es realmente sencillo porque además tienes montones de páginas en Internet que te explican cómo instar y configurar un servidor DNS pero si te trabas en algún apartado, pregunta a la lista, indicando lo que has hecho exactamente y con qué resultado :-) Saludos, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.11.15.16.05...@gmail.com
Re: Linux privatizado?
On 11/15/2014 07:42 AM, Luis Felipe Tabera Alonso wrote: On Saturday 15 November 2014 07:04:01 Listas wrote: Hola Luis Felipe Tabera Por tus comentarios, deduzco que ni siquiera tendras capacidad para reconocer la O, por lo redondo! Tu mensaje es un ataque sin sentido, quizas deberias de sentir verguenza. Y desalojar tu furia, de otra forma. En la primera parte del, mensaje, me decis que me calle o que escriba codigo, esto no me lo dirias frente a frente; muy tipico del que se imagina que es un genio por que escribe algo en algun lenguaje de computadores; en la realidad esto se llama arrogancia, o sea cobardia encubierta; y no contribuye a mantener una comunidad sana. Te cuento que en casos de ausencia de alimentos; el codigo no te salvara de morir de hambre. En la comunidad Debian; no todos somos desarrolladores; y la mayoria de desarrolladores que yo conozco ni siquiera poseen grado universitario (motivo por el que les es imposible, ver detalles de diseno); por esa razon se engrandecen con lo de show me the code, das lastima al responder de esa forma. Lo de Linus Torvals y el sistema operativo universal; es mas de lo mismo; sos incapaz de saber la diferencia entre uno de los fundadores y el creador, o el Sistema Operativo Universal; pero es comprensible, la educacion no es para todos y para los necios menos! Mi intencion no es discutir tonterias con el primer disparatado que aparezca, solo menciono informacion que esta a mi alcance, y asumo que si te interesa, pues buscaras las respuestas en libros e internet. hasta luego. Ok, que eres un troll, no participaré más en tus aportaciones... . Lo siento, creo que mal interprete tu mensaje; pero te pido disculpas; asumo que tu intencion no es la de joder! Pienso que la idea es comprender que Debian esta fundado en el nucleo Linux y las aplicaciones GNU (Linus Torvals y Richard Stallman); nosotros los usuarios somos de diversas formaciones y me parece que si somos respetuosos unos de los otros, lograremos que Debian como distribucion y comunidad, continue siendo lo que ha sido. Cada quien aporta lo que tiene y los DDs, aportan codigo. Pero todos tenemos limitaciones. Revise lo de Linus y si, merece una correccion, debido a que podria interpretarse como que Linus participo con los primeros desarrolladores; lo que es falso. Gracias por ,mencionarlo. hasta luego y comenta cuando quieras. Yo solo soy usuario. . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467838e.7090...@agronomos.ca
Re: Linux privatizado?
On 11/15/2014 11:45 AM, Debia Linux wrote: Lista: El respeto se gana... CAMALEON mis respetos, te has ganado el respeto a pulso. Simplemente te respeto porque nadie mas que tu aportas incondicionalmente y sin pago alguno tu conocimiento, no tan solo para el beneficio de la lista, sino para todo el mundo. Lo bueno es que se habla de ti, dicen por ahi; Preocupese cuando no se se hable de usted, porque entonces usted hace nada. Saludos P.D. Los trolls aportan racismo y division, pero nunca conocimiento. . Y ya hablando en serio, cual es el problema de que NO escriban con claridad? Este mensaje no tiene ningun sentido. Si queres felicitar a Camaleon o lo que quieras, por que no le envias a ella el mensaje? Supongo, que en esta lista, NO dirias que adoras al diablo o a los angeles! Tu mensaje mas parece propaganda politica. Y por favor NO me envies copia, yo recibo los mensajes de la lista. . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467d812.7090...@agronomos.ca
Re: Linux privatizado?
2014-11-15 16:47 GMT-06:00 Listas debianl...@agronomos.ca: On 11/15/2014 11:45 AM, Debia Linux wrote: Lista: El respeto se gana... CAMALEON mis respetos, te has ganado el respeto a pulso. Simplemente te respeto porque nadie mas que tu aportas incondicionalmente y sin pago alguno tu conocimiento, no tan solo para el beneficio de la lista, sino para todo el mundo. Lo bueno es que se habla de ti, dicen por ahi; Preocupese cuando no se se hable de usted, porque entonces usted hace nada. Saludos P.D. Los trolls aportan racismo y division, pero nunca conocimiento. . Y ya hablando en serio, cual es el problema de que NO escriban con claridad? Este mensaje no tiene ningun sentido. Si queres felicitar a Camaleon o lo que quieras, por que no le envias a ella el mensaje? Supongo, que en esta lista, NO dirias que adoras al diablo o a los angeles! Tu mensaje mas parece propaganda politica. Y por favor NO me envies copia, yo recibo los mensajes de la lista. Creo que lo menos pior es la politica que ser troll como bien lo describio Camaleon. ¿Cual es el problema?. El problema es que comenzaron a satanizar el mensaje de Camaleon. Por lo menos a mi que fregados me importa si RH es privativo o no. Esta es una lista debianera, esto dice DEBIAN. Bien diria Altair Linux al responder el primero en responder a tu post y que cito textualmente. Una cosa es Red Hat, otra es GNU/Linux. Red hat ya dicen de que hacen y cuales son sus condiciones. Es decisión de cada cual (sea particular o empresa) aceptarlas o rechazarlas. Ya quedo la respuesta, es mas creo que ni al caso el post... seria como ponernos a discutir sobre el sistema GFE/2.0 que que en escencia es linux... si lo han hecho privativo o no ese es su problema. Creo que cada quien apuesta sus canicas en el sistema que quiere. Para concluir te comento (por si no quedo claro) te llamaron troll yo te llamo troll-politiquero... A t e n t a m e n t e Debianero P.D. No hablare mas sobre el tema, porque es perder el tiempo y eso retrasa el progreso del SISTEMA LIBRE y de la lista. Pasen excelente noche. P.D. Si hablamos de politica, yo diaria entonces SE LOS LLEVARON VIVOS, VIVOS LOS QUEREMOS... RENUNCIA ENRIQUE PEÑA NIETO. . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467d812.7090...@agronomos.ca -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cam50unxuuvcwf0mf_ubneq1j8a6n++pchwtbtuktjvh1g8l...@mail.gmail.com
Re: OT: Hay futuro más allá de Jessie
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 03:34:37PM +, Camaleón wrote: No veo qué te impide instalar systemd en Lenny, [...] Pues yo sí lo veo: El README de systemd dice: REQUIREMENTS: Linux kernel = 3.7 Fuente: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/README y en lenny la versión de Linux era la 2.6.26. se supone que el nuevo sistema de gestión de servicios mantiene la compatibilidad con systemv La compatibilidad con sysvinit no significa que te puedas saltar el README a la torera. Significa únicamente que los scripts en /etc/init.d seguirán funcionando para aquellos servicios que no tengan una unidad de systemd preparada. Que el software sea libre no da derecho a nadie a *exigir* que funcione en *cualquier* circunstancia. Si el README dice que necesitas un núcleo reciente, será porque utilizan características de Linux que solamente estaban presentes a partir de esa versión. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141116011226.ga9...@cantor.unex.es
Re: Linux privatizado?
On 11/15/2014 05:08 PM, Debia Linux wrote: 2014-11-15 16:47 GMT-06:00 Listas debianl...@agronomos.ca: On 11/15/2014 11:45 AM, Debia Linux wrote: Lista: El respeto se gana... CAMALEON mis respetos, te has ganado el respeto a pulso. Simplemente te respeto porque nadie mas que tu aportas incondicionalmente y sin pago alguno tu conocimiento, no tan solo para el beneficio de la lista, sino para todo el mundo. Lo bueno es que se habla de ti, dicen por ahi; Preocupese cuando no se se hable de usted, porque entonces usted hace nada. Saludos P.D. Los trolls aportan racismo y division, pero nunca conocimiento. . Y ya hablando en serio, cual es el problema de que NO escriban con claridad? Este mensaje no tiene ningun sentido. Si queres felicitar a Camaleon o lo que quieras, por que no le envias a ella el mensaje? Supongo, que en esta lista, NO dirias que adoras al diablo o a los angeles! Tu mensaje mas parece propaganda politica. Y por favor NO me envies copia, yo recibo los mensajes de la lista. Creo que lo menos pior es la politica que ser troll como bien lo describio Camaleon. . Esto es un chiste y vos sos un payaso, supongo. . ¿Cual es el problema?. El problema es que comenzaron a satanizar el mensaje de Camaleon. Por lo menos a mi que fregados me importa si RH es privativo o no. Esta es una lista debianera, esto dice DEBIAN. . Y a mi que putas me importa camaleon o vos? . Bien diria Altair Linux al responder el primero en responder a tu post y que cito textualmente. Una cosa es Red Hat, otra es GNU/Linux. Red hat ya dicen de que hacen y cuales son sus condiciones. Es decisión de cada cual (sea particular o empresa) aceptarlas o rechazarlas. . Si esa es la opinion de Altair, que tenes que ver con ella? . Ya quedo la respuesta, es mas creo que ni al caso el post... seria como ponernos a discutir sobre el sistema GFE/2.0 que que en escencia es linux... si lo han hecho privativo o no ese es su problema. Creo que cada quien apuesta sus canicas en el sistema que quiere. Para concluir te comento (por si no quedo claro) te llamaron troll yo te llamo troll-politiquero... . Yo te llamo hijo de cuarenta putas lameculo, y que? Solo son letras! Todavia no entiendo tu amargura, pero que la disfrutes! . A t e n t a m e n t e Debianero P.D. No hablare mas sobre el tema, porque es perder el tiempo y eso retrasa el progreso del SISTEMA LIBRE y de la lista. Pasen excelente noche. . Cual progreso? Si siguen asi, seria Retroceso! . P.D. Si hablamos de politica, yo diaria entonces SE LOS LLEVARON VIVOS, VIVOS LOS QUEREMOS... RENUNCIA ENRIQUE PEÑA NIETO. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-spanish-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5468023a.2070...@agronomos.ca
Re: MALWARE Virus no Ubuntu [Alerta]
A minha **opinião** eh que não importa a distribuição, se você alterar o padrão dela, vai dar alguma coisa errada. Veja: - Ubuntu deixa a senha de root em branco por padrão, e deixa o acesso de root habilitado no ssh por padrão. E isso é seguro. Idiota e non-sense ao meu ver, mas seguro. - Debian pede para você setar a senha de root e deixa o acesso de root desabilitado por padrão. E isso é seguro. O que não é seguro é o usuário modificar o padrão sem pensar em consequências. Por ex, habilitar a senha de root no ubuntu, ou habilitar o login de root via ssh no debian, deixa ambos os sistemas mto inseguros, caso a senha de root seja fraca. E esta combinação de fatores (senha fraca no root e acesso de root via ssh ) eh perigosa em qualquer distribuição, em qualquer sistema, seja gnewsense, trisquel, *bsd, beos, tra-la-la-systems. Os sistemas tem um bom nível de segurança por padrão - com as devidas limitações causadas pelo nosso fator humano. As catástrofes são geral e costumeiramente causadas pelo usuário aspirante a administrador, em qualquer distro, em qualquer sistema, em qualquer cenário. Abraços Henry De: Thiago Zoroastro thiago.zoroas...@bol.com.br Para: debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 14 de Novembro de 2014 19:20 Assunto: Re: MALWARE Virus no Ubuntu [Alerta] Depende é claro do tipo de usuário. LMDE é perfeito para usar sem inesperados empecilhos por conta dos formatos privativos predominantes. O mais indicado é Trisquel ou gNewSense, mas o gNewSense é uma porção mais trabalhoso que o próprio Debian. On 14-11-2014 17:05, Flavio Menezes dos Reis wrote: Por estas e por outras que prefiro o Debian. Em 14 de novembro de 2014 14:25, Rodrigo Cunha rodrigo.root...@gmail.com escreveu: Srs, utilizo o ubuntu e nesta semana me deparei com um problema. Minha rede estava falhando e resolvi vas culhar o meu S/O. Descobri os arquivos abaixo instalados no meu PC local : /etc/init.d/DbSecuritySpt /etc/init.d/selinux /etc/init.d/.SSH2 /etc/init.d/.SSH2 Eles geravam um daemon chamado sfewfesfs e alguns subprogramas chamados de sshdd14xxx e se conectavam com ips na china : netname: CHINANET-ZJ-HU country: CN descr: CHINANET-ZJ Huzhou node network Ainda bem que descobri a tempo, só achei estranho, meu primeiro virus de linux e, pelo que eu me lembre não instalei nada no S/O nestes ultimos dias. Bom, para quem é leigo em segurança, como eu, e quer saber como descobri essas praguinhas, eu sem nada conectado eo meu host, executei netstat -putona, vi os programas que estavam com nomes do tipo : tcp 0 0 192.168.0.3:45200 ipremoto:7668 ESTABELECIDA 1592/.sshhdd14 keepalive (55,40/0/0) tcp 0 0 192.168.0.3:35433 ipremoto:36665 ESTABELECIDA 18537/sfewfesfs keepalive (50,02/0/0) tcp 0 0 192.168.0.3:58840 ipremoto:7168 ESTABELECIDA 13987/.sshdd14 keepalive (50,79/0/0) No meu caso, para encontra-los, nao usei a TI, mas sim a lógica, vi os ultimos programas instalados no meu init 2 (meu runlevel) e estavam lá, os arquivos listados como instalados ontem: /etc/init.d/DbSecuritySpt /etc/init.d/selinux /etc/init.d/.SSH2 /etc/init.d/.SSH2 Emfim : Não via,até hoje, a necessidade de utilizar um antivírus no meu linux...porém agora Caso queiram procurar algo, busquem no google por /etc/init.d/dbsecurityspt e encontrarão algumas referencias. Em todo caso fiquem alertas, principalmente se seu S/O estiver na DMZ (meu caso). Achei o caso desse cara interessante: https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/topic/103175-rootkit-on-my-readynas-516-check-your-boxes/ -- Atenciosamente, Rodrigo da Silva Cunha -- Flávio Menezes dos Reis Procuradoria-Geral do Estado do RS Assessoria de Informática do Gabinete Técnico Superior de Informática (51) 3288-1763
Re: Sintaxe dns
On 14-11-2014 23:29, Leandro wrote: Prezados, boa noite Talvez deva ser off topic isso, se for desculpe. Mas vejo em alguns implementações de dns o seguinte estrutural.com.br http://estrutural.com.br. 86400 IN NS ns2.locaweb.com.br http://ns2.locaweb.com.br. Esse ns2 isso reflete o nome do servidor dns (hostname)? ou posso colocar qualquer coisa no lugar é uma convensao usar isso, ou seja tanto faz o que usar. Bom dia Leandro, Você pode colocar o nome que desejar; ex.: estrutural.com.br. 86400 IN NS a.locaweb.com.br. estrutural.com.br. 86400 IN NS b.locaweb.com.br. Logico que o a.locaweb.com.br e b.locaweb.com.br devem existir no DNS da Locaweb. Contudo, qualquer administrador que olhar a entrada ns2.locaweb.com.br logo vai associá-la com um Name Server. Sendo assim, usar um padrão, tipo NS1.dominio, NS2.dominio, ... NSn.dominio torna mais fácil a vida de todos. Também, é possível você criar um alias e ter o nome do seu domínio no NS; ex.: ns1 86400 IN CNAME ns1.locaweb.com.br. ns2 86400 IN CNAME ns2.locaweb.com.br. estrutural.com.br. 86400 IN NS ns1.estrutural.com.br. estrutural.com.br. 86400 IN NS ns2.estrutural.com.br. Usando a lógica acima, agora você pode colocar no regsitro.br o ns1.estrutural.com.br e ns2.estrutural.com.br como seus servidores de nome. Bem, espero que seja esta a sua duvida e que tenha ajuda! Sucesso, ___ Francisco C Soares ( *Junior* ) 403790c89847cdbe5a262146de8fb93139c4 BLOG dotjunior.blogspot.com http://dotjunior.blogspot.com/
Como monitorar portas e arquivos? (era: MALWARE Virus no Ubuntu)
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 07:15:12PM -0200, Thiago Zoroastro wrote: Como poderia eu monitorar essas portas? Dê uma olhada no netstat. $ top e $ ps aux Quais processos não deveriam estar ali? Isso é o administrador que vai ter que saber/escolher, afinal é ele que define a política de instalação de softwares e de segurança da máquina. Que outras formas de monitorar vulnerabilidades do sistema podem ser feitas? Você pode monitorar também os arquivos abertos com o lsof e testar suas configurações com o nmap. Abraços, signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: MALWARE Virus no Ubuntu [Alerta]
Adicionar o usuário para usar sudo no /etc/sudoers rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL deixo embaixo do de cima: usuarioALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL E uso sudo no Debian e Debian-baseds. Que é desabilitado por padrão. Tenho feito isso sempre desde que migrei do Ubuntu. On 15-11-2014 10:31, henrique wrote: A minha **opinião** eh que não importa a distribuição, se você alterar o padrão dela, vai dar alguma coisa errada. Veja: - Ubuntu deixa a senha de root em branco por padrão, e deixa o acesso de root habilitado no ssh por padrão. E isso é seguro. Idiota e non-sense ao meu ver, mas seguro. - Debian pede para você setar a senha de root e deixa o acesso de root desabilitado por padrão. E isso é seguro. O que não é seguro é o usuário modificar o padrão sem pensar em consequências. Por ex, habilitar a senha de root no ubuntu, ou habilitar o login de root via ssh no debian, deixa ambos os sistemas mto inseguros, caso a senha de root seja fraca. E esta combinação de fatores (senha fraca no root e acesso de root via ssh ) eh perigosa em qualquer distribuição, em qualquer sistema, seja gnewsense, trisquel, *bsd, beos, tra-la-la-systems. Os sistemas tem um bom nível de segurança por padrão - com as devidas limitações causadas pelo nosso fator humano. As catástrofes são geral e costumeiramente causadas pelo usuário aspirante a administrador, em qualquer distro, em qualquer sistema, em qualquer cenário. Abraços Henry *De:* Thiago Zoroastro thiago.zoroas...@bol.com.br *Para:* debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org *Enviadas:* Sexta-feira, 14 de Novembro de 2014 19:20 *Assunto:* Re: MALWARE Virus no Ubuntu [Alerta] Depende é claro do tipo de usuário. LMDE é perfeito para usar sem inesperados empecilhos por conta dos formatos privativos predominantes. O mais indicado é Trisquel ou gNewSense, mas o gNewSense é uma porção mais trabalhoso que o próprio Debian. On 14-11-2014 17:05, Flavio Menezes dos Reis wrote: Por estas e por outras que prefiro o Debian. Em 14 de novembro de 2014 14:25, Rodrigo Cunha rodrigo.root...@gmail.com mailto:rodrigo.root...@gmail.com escreveu: Srs, utilizo o ubuntu e nesta semana me deparei com um problema. Minha rede estava falhando e resolvi vas culhar o meu S/O. Descobri os arquivos abaixo instalados no meu PC local : /etc/init.d/DbSecuritySpt /etc/init.d/selinux /etc/init.d/.SSH2 /etc/init.d/.SSH2 Eles geravam um daemon chamado sfewfesfs e alguns subprogramas chamados de sshdd14xxx e se conectavam com ips na china : netname: CHINANET-ZJ-HU country: CN descr: CHINANET-ZJ Huzhou node network Ainda bem que descobri a tempo, só achei estranho, meu primeiro virus de linux e, pelo que eu me lembre não instalei nada no S/O nestes ultimos dias. Bom, para quem é leigo em segurança, como eu, e quer saber como descobri essas praguinhas, eu sem nada conectado eo meu host, executei netstat -putona, vi os programas que estavam com nomes do tipo : tcp0 0 192.168.0.3:45200 http://192.168.0.3:45200/ ipremoto:7668 ESTABELECIDA 1592/.sshhdd14 keepalive (55,40/0/0) tcp0 0 192.168.0.3:35433 http://192.168.0.3:35433/ ipremoto:36665 ESTABELECIDA 18537/sfewfesfs keepalive (50,02/0/0) tcp0 0 192.168.0.3:58840 http://192.168.0.3:58840/ ipremoto:7168 ESTABELECIDA 13987/.sshdd14 keepalive (50,79/0/0) No meu caso, para encontra-los, nao usei a TI, mas sim a lógica, vi os ultimos programas instalados no meu init 2 (meu runlevel) e estavam lá, os arquivos listados como instalados ontem: /etc/init.d/DbSecuritySpt /etc/init.d/selinux /etc/init.d/.SSH2 /etc/init.d/.SSH2 Emfim : Não via,até hoje, a necessidade de utilizar um antivírus no meu linux...porém agora Caso queiram procurar algo, busquem no google por /etc/init.d/dbsecurityspt e encontrarão algumas referencias. Em todo caso fiquem alertas, principalmente se seu S/O estiver na DMZ (meu caso). Achei o caso desse cara interessante: https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/topic/103175-rootkit-on-my-readynas-516-check-your-boxes/ -- Atenciosamente, Rodrigo da Silva Cunha -- Flávio Menezes dos Reis Procuradoria-Geral do Estado do RS Assessoria de Informática do Gabinete Técnico Superior de Informática (51) 3288-1763
Re: Bash
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:45:19PM +0200, Gokan Atmaca wrote: I want to conditionally output from the bash command. for example telnet localhost 25 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Postfix #! / bin / bash COMMAND = `telnet localhost 25` if [$ COMMAND == 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Postfix] echo postfix ok else echo postfix error Your bash syntax, corrected: #! /bin/bash if [ $COMMAND = 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Postfix ]; then echo ok else echo bad fi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115080109.ga4...@fok02.laje.edewe.de
Re: Bash
Your bash syntax, corrected: #! /bin/bash if [ $COMMAND = 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Postfix ]; then echo ok else echo bad fi Thanks to everyone @Wilko very thanks. its works. On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Wilko Fokken wfok...@web.de wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:45:19PM +0200, Gokan Atmaca wrote: I want to conditionally output from the bash command. for example telnet localhost 25 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Postfix #! / bin / bash COMMAND = `telnet localhost 25` if [$ COMMAND == 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Postfix] echo postfix ok else echo postfix error Your bash syntax, corrected: #! /bin/bash if [ $COMMAND = 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Postfix ]; then echo ok else echo bad fi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115080109.ga4...@fok02.laje.edewe.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cahg8ted663uhpvcsvzag3q3sf+_dbh-34gu-b58eqfwr9u9...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Latest iceweasel 31.2.0esr crashes X on wheezy 7.7
On 2014-11-15, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/14/2014 at 07:32 PM, David wrote: I run wheezy 7.7 on several 12 IBM X24 machines with 640k RAM. 640K?? I wouldn't expect iceweasel to even load without at least a few hundred times that much. He means 640MB (it's a ThinkPad). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm6ebha.48c.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Bash
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:45:19PM +0200, Gokan Atmaca wrote: #!/bin/bash BTW: bash is fine as a login shell, but I would not use it as a programming language. Stick with /bin/sh if you can. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115104120.ga30...@cantor.unex.es
Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
On 2014-11-11, Rob Owens row...@ptd.net wrote: I don't mean to single out the poster of this comment, because it is something I've seen repeated by several Debian developers and some non-developers. Other forms of it are If you want that fixed, please submit a patch, or the response I got to bug 762116, Code changes the world. Why can't you wrap your lines while you're at it? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm6ebln.48c.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 07:55:23, Miles Fidelman wrote: Note that there seems to be an ongoing issue with whether or not the installer will issue a warning before a package dependency leads to an automatic change to systemd. See bugs 765803 and 762194. installer usually means Debian Installer (i.e. the thing that installs Debian from scratch), you probably meant package manager, which means (dist-)upgrades. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 13:27:22, Helmut Wollmersdorfer wrote: And all this says nothing about big servers, which need some magnitudes more of reliability, stability and scaling. E.g. not using plain text files for logs causes problems in the long run and in daily work. The default setting for the Debian systemd package is to forward all messages to your syslog and rsyslog is still installed by default. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: On 11/14/2014 05:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote: snip Jumping in here as myself, not Joel's tag-team member. :) Debian as an entity doesn't really do much. There are only one or several volunteers who start doing things. Setting up a separate port for systemd would have been a major waste of resources (both human and hardware) with no real gain. By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html You are completely dismissing the work of Debian Developers who *did* have a very good look at the options and decided switching to systemd is doable and would be a good thing from a *technical* point of view. Non-responsive to his argument. If the work was biased and over-optimistic then it doesn't matter how much they looked at it. This argument cuts both ways :) However, you and several others are rejecting systemd on ideological grounds. There's not much that can be done about that, short or re-implementing systemd according to your vision. Many others reject choice and the anti-choice stance is the ideological position at issue here. It is in direct conflict with Debian policy. The systemd upstream are the ones with vision, ideology, rejecting opponents as haters in an overt campaign to establish a Linux monopoly. They have a financial interest in *psychological projection* of this kind. I still cannot see what Debian stands to gain by jumping on their marketing bandwagon. At least some of people rejecting systemd demand that it be removed completely, including libsystemd. How is it pro-choice to forbid me from being able to use a software at its full potential? I hope you do understand why neither the systemd developers, maintainers or users have any interest whatsoever in doing that. But upstreams have other interests, like establishment of a Linux monopoly via tying and customer lock-in. Why should there not be a rational effort to counter that? In my opinion the best defence against a monopoly[1] of any kind is to develop competitive alternatives. [1] which I don't believe applies, but will ignore for the moment. After all, systemd already works fine for them. Windows already works fine for most people, and it is consistent with the anti-choice philosophy, so why bother with Linux at all? Doesn't work fine for me. At $dayjob I'm forced to use it and I can tell you my private laptop with a Dual Core 1,8 GHz and 2 GB RAM runs circles around a Core i5 with Windows 7. But this is off-topic for d-u. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 22:53:36, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote: [...] [snip another wall of text about engineering principles] And, thus, once again, The engineering question keeps getting sidetracked by people who assert that we are talking about technical details, [...] If you can't deal with it, snip it? I don't think it brings anything useful to a discussion on -user. That's much more suitable for some init-systemd-devel list. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:49:18 +0200 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: In my opinion the best defence against a monopoly[1] of any kind is to develop competitive alternatives. We have seen how well that worked with MS Windows over the years... Cheers, Ron. -- Nada es tan peligroso como dejar permanecer largo tiempo a un mismo ciudadano en el poder. El pueblo se acostumbra a obedecer, y él se acostumbra a mandarlo; de donde se origina la usurpación y la tiranía. -- Simon Bolivar -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115091340.4e213...@ron.cerrocora.org
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. One picture is worth a thousand words. https://np237.livejournal.com/34598.html (Sorry, couldn't resist). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/15112014121345.2e551aff5...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:55:47, Tanstaafl wrote: On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: It was claimed that sysvinit was the default *and only* (emphasis not mine) init, and therefore no selection was needed, but now that there are several a selection suddenly is needed. I don't recall claiming that sysvinit was the *only* init, nor do I recall anyone else making such a claim. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/11/msg00814.html Maybe a language issue? (I'm not a native speaker). My very simple point is and has been that, *because* the *default* init system for debian has been sysvinit since anyone can apparently remember, the very act of even *suggesting* that it be switched in jessie to not only a *different*, but a (relatively) *very new* one, should have invoked a very simple requirement - for which the responsibility for implementation and maintenance would be on those calling for the switch - to provide a means for easily switching back and forth so that everyone else could easily test things, and ultimately, after the release of jessie with the new default, provide a means to easily choose the previous default installer at both update *and* install time, and maintain such at *least* during the life of the jessie (if not jessie+1). For fresh installs, given that there is a suitable[1] workaround the incentive to fix the bug[2] so late in the release cycle is low, as it might introduce other breakage. [1] so far the only claims against that workaround have been of the sort I don't want systemd anywhere near my systems, without actual proof of something going wrong. [2] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=668001 For dist-upgrades, even assuming systems will be switched automatically (which is still undecided): - one can prevent switching by installing sysvinit-core before the dist-upgrade step - the sysvinit package contains the binary /lib/sysvinit/init which can be used with the init= kernel parameter - there is a grub patch[3] pending integration[4] to offer an alternative sysvinit boot option [3] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=757298 [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/10/msg00057.html The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no objections. [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00611.html Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:45:11 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: I don't mean to single out the poster of this comment, because it is something I've seen repeated by several Debian developers and some non-developers. Other forms of it are If you want that fixed, please submit a patch, or the response I got to bug 762116, Code changes the world. Why can't you wrap your lines while you're at it? Can't you set your mail client to wrap them for you ? Cheers, Ron. -- Nada es tan peligroso como dejar permanecer largo tiempo a un mismo ciudadano en el poder. El pueblo se acostumbra a obedecer, y él se acostumbra a mandarlo; de donde se origina la usurpación y la tiranía. -- Simon Bolivar -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115091213.4e307...@ron.cerrocora.org
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: [(clipping too much, I now realize)] The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no objections. [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00611.html My impression is that objections logged to that thread, had there been any, would have been to the method or timing, not to the switch itself. In other words, members of dev who disagreed to the switch itself would have needed a different thread to register their continued disagreement. And I am under the impression that there was an undercurrent of object to this and lose your geek cred. -- Joel Rees There is one conspirator against you, that has not changed. The only question is whether you will participate or turn your back to it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caar43inl1sxtpndpprn4twa4zpfijoq6b9pzrfrpb5oyo6m...@mail.gmail.com
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 22:53:36, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote: [...] [snip another wall of text about engineering principles] And, thus, once again, The engineering question keeps getting sidetracked by people who assert that we are talking about technical details, [...] If you can't deal with it, snip it? I don't think it brings anything useful to a discussion on -user. That's much more suitable for some init-systemd-devel list. Re-read the wall of text you deleted, then think again about this suggestion. If you still don't see how this suggestion is a short-circuit to ground for objections, I've written a bit more colorfully on the subject on my general blog, maybe you would care to re-read that as well. There's something in this question that is actually entangled in the difference between declarative and procedural programming, but I can't really talk with you about it until you start digging in to one or the other. -- Joel Rees Living without understanding programming is kind of like playing poker without understanding statistics. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caar43in2dxjcauqbxm21sb1jahek7a+rxjtr6yvq7y9pvfd...@mail.gmail.com
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On 15-11-2014 14:17, Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. One picture is worth a thousand words. https://np237.livejournal.com/34598.html (Sorry, couldn't resist). I couldn't resist also ... A use case better covered by SysV init: encrypted block devices http://tanguy.ortolo.eu/blog/categorie2/debian Regards, -- Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/66dd4e331f467402fea441f4814d6...@nephelae.eu
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sb, 15 nov 14, 22:05:58, Joel Rees wrote: On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: [(clipping too much, I now realize)] The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no objections. [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00611.html My impression is that objections logged to that thread, had there been any, would have been to the method or timing, not to the switch itself. In other words, members of dev who disagreed to the switch itself would have needed a different thread to register their continued disagreement. In my impression Debian is most of the times much *less* formalised than this. What is actually quite frustrating in this particular case (for me as an outsider, can't even imagine how it is for people directly involved) is how people don't engage in such a thread, but instead escalate to the TC and/or GR directly. And I am under the impression that there was an undercurrent of object to this and lose your geek cred. Definitely doesn't match my impression. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
On 2014-11-15, Renaud OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: Why can't you wrap your lines while you're at it? Can't you set your mail client to wrap them for you ? Sure, and I can killfile the troll, correct the spelling and grammatical errors of the slothful and the ignorant, convert html to text, ignore spam and advertising, translate foreign languages, decipher cryptic codes, tolerate test messages and subscription or unsubscription requests, ignore the obscene, abide the rabid, suffer the rant, bear the ad hominem, and blow whatever's left out my ass. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnm6emjf.48c.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Qsynth working, Fluidsynth not
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 01:34:36PM -0800, Bob McGowan wrote: What I found shows both qsynth and fluidsynth depend on jackd, since I did not have jackd installed and both refused to run, with the same error message, to the effect that jackd could not be found or started. It would seem that these two packages should depend on the jackd package, but don't. They depend on the libjackd libraries, indirectly. There's a possible use-case where you have fluidsynth on one computer but the jackd process on another (I think), in which case you may not need/want jackd installed in the same place as fluidsynth. I suspect this is a very rare use-case. Perhaps libfluidsynth1 or another package should Recmmends: jackd at the very least. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115144342.ga23...@chew.redmars.org
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 15:22:06 +0200, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote: On 15-11-2014 14:17, Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. One picture is worth a thousand words. https://np237.livejournal.com/34598.html (Sorry, couldn't resist). I couldn't resist also ... A use case better covered by SysV init: encrypted block devices http://tanguy.ortolo.eu/blog/categorie2/debian I'll see you and raise you with a link to a helpful post: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/04/msg01286.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg01048.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/15112014145609.e73095746...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:51:44 + (UTC) Curt cu...@free.fr wrote: Why can't you wrap your lines while you're at it? Can't you set your mail client to wrap them for you ? Sure, and I can killfile the troll, correct the spelling and grammatical errors of the slothful and the ignorant, convert html to text, ignore spam and advertising, translate foreign languages, decipher cryptic codes, tolerate test messages and subscription or unsubscription requests, ignore the obscene, abide the rabid, suffer the rant, bear the ad hominem, and blow whatever's left out my ass. Then, what are you moaning about ? Cheers, Ron. -- My karma just ran over your dogma. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115122316.0bbce...@ron.cerrocora.org
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
2014/11/15 22:57 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com: On Sb, 15 nov 14, 22:05:58, Joel Rees wrote: On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: [(clipping too much, I now realize)] The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no objections. [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00611.html My impression is that objections logged to that thread, had there been any, would have been to the method or timing, not to the switch itself. In other words, members of dev who disagreed to the switch itself would have needed a different thread to register their continued disagreement. In my impression Debian is most of the times much *less* formalised than this. What is actually quite frustrating in this particular case (for me as an outsider, can't even imagine how it is for people directly involved) is how people don't engage in such a thread, but instead escalate to the TC and/or GR directly. And I am under the impression that there was an undercurrent of object to this and lose your geek cred. Definitely doesn't match my impression. Well, Brian posted a link to a repurposed graphic of the waiting forever meme. And Dimitrios posted a link to a use case that is, indeed, not well covered by the _current_ (as of the freeze) systemd package. Sure, if you know the trick, you can get it to go, with some compromise. Have to encrypt root too or something equally counterintuitive. And I'm sure they'll get that fixed, too, put the documentation in, get plymouth set up to no longer be just a splash screen by default, instruct everyone to encrypt their root partitions or whatever the other part was. Maybe after the freeze they get whatever requires that second part fixed as well. What they are selling is a solution to everyone's problems, and they way it works is that they provide a solution after we find the problem. That is not substantially different from the way it was with sysvinit, except now the systemd crowd are the go-to guys for all things init, where, before, you had the expertise spread out. There wasn't a single group. We teach them and they become our experts. And it works as long as everyone will just do it their way. Renaud's sig had a rather interesting quote from Simon Bolivar a few posts up. Joel Rees
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 07:55:23, Miles Fidelman wrote: Note that there seems to be an ongoing issue with whether or not the installer will issue a warning before a package dependency leads to an automatic change to systemd. See bugs 765803 and 762194. installer usually means Debian Installer (i.e. the thing that installs Debian from scratch), you probably meant package manager, which means (dist-)upgrades. Yes. Yes I did. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54678169.4030...@meetinghouse.net
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. That assumes that one needs or wants systemd's features. For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant operational impact (time required to deal with changes). Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467813a.2060...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
On 11/15/2014 08:51 AM, Curt wrote: On 2014-11-15, Renaud OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: Why can't you wrap your lines while you're at it? Can't you set your mail client to wrap them for you ? Sure, and I can killfile the troll, correct the spelling and grammatical errors of the slothful and the ignorant, convert html to text, ignore spam and advertising, translate foreign languages, decipher cryptic codes, tolerate test messages and subscription or unsubscription requests, ignore the obscene, abide the rabid, suffer the rant, bear the ad hominem, and blow whatever's left out my ass. You'd be left w3ith a period and a semi-colon. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546797b1.1070...@gmail.com
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On 15-11-2014 16:59, Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 15:22:06 +0200, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote: On 15-11-2014 14:17, Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. One picture is worth a thousand words. https://np237.livejournal.com/34598.html (Sorry, couldn't resist). I couldn't resist also ... A use case better covered by SysV init: encrypted block devices http://tanguy.ortolo.eu/blog/categorie2/debian I'll see you and raise you with a link to a helpful post: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/04/msg01286.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg01048.html Irrelevant ... Read carefullty ... use case better covered ... if systemd requires specific configuration to handle such a case, whereas SysV init does not, that means this case is better covered by SysV init; systemd : [Unit] Description=Unlock EncFS DefaultDependencies=no After=local-fs.target Before=display-manager.service getty@tty1.service [Service] Type=oneshot RemainAfterExit=true Environment=RootDir=/home/.encfs/crypt Environment=MountPoint=/home/crypt ExecStart=/bin/sh -c systemd-ask-password --no-tty --timeout=30 'Unlock EncFS' | encfs --stdinpass $RootDir $MountPoint ExecStop=/bin/umount $MountPoint [Install] WantedBy=sysinit.target This is a specific configuration ... Any way thx for playing ... ( it was just humor ... ) Regards, -- Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d48be499e67f1d6cc9c3c37f2b0d8...@nephelae.eu
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. That assumes that one needs or wants systemd's features. I rather think Andrei might not regard this as answering his challenge. (You also didn't say whether the link's picture made you chuckle :) ). For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant operational impact (time required to deal with changes). Fair enough, but working within the realities of a situation is also part of the deal. The deal for Jessie is systemd. This is not on a take it or leave basis; quite a lot of work has been put into ensuring the alternatives you want are there. We have been here before, so some of what follows is repetition. For users who feel the same as you it is (AFAIK) the way to get basically what you want. It cannot be definitive because changes between now and the release of Jessie are likely to alter the advice. Upgrading - After changing sources.list and an 'apt-get update' do apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim Then proceed with an upgrade and dist-upgrade. New Install --- Use the apt-get command above immediately after installation or preseed the installation of sysvinit-core and systemd-shim. Both of these may or may not have an operational impact in individual cases but (as an outline) they are (AKAIK) the only ways to avoid systemd-sysv being installed. After that you are on your own, leaving aside bugs. I appreciate any major change to a way of working can be stressful but (without wishing to teach anyone how to do their job) there are ways of testing which can increase confidence in the provided methods. The testing also has the added benefit (should there be problems) of improving on the already large amount of work done within Debian. The BTS would be the appropriate place to put one's experiences. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115192449.gn3...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: iceweasel Video can't be played because the file is corrupt
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 22:15:05 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Lisi, Sorry, Brad. You are assuming too much functioning brain power. H264 has only always and never. Flash has all three, but once I have set it You're right; I'd not noticed that before. Sorry. to ask to activate, where is the .mp4 link to which you refer? Songbird has the right idea; The .mp4 that Pierre couldn't play. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent What will you do when the gas taps turn? The Gasman Cometh - Crass pgpF0iDGw0e8F.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On 11/15/2014 7:20 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:55:47, Tanstaafl wrote: On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: It was claimed that sysvinit was the default *and only* (emphasis not mine) init, and therefore no selection was needed, but now that there are several a selection suddenly is needed. I don't recall claiming that sysvinit was the *only* init, nor do I recall anyone else making such a claim. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/11/msg00814.html Maybe a language issue? (I'm not a native speaker). Nope, that was me and I actually did say it... weird that I didn't remember saying that... but it doesn't really change anything... Just because other init systems exist doesn't mean they were actually being used, other than maybe just someone toying around. Are you seriously suggesting that anything other than a tiny and insignificant fraction were using anything other than sysvinit (until systemd came along at least)? For fresh installs, given that there is a suitable[1] workaround sigh how many times does it have to be said - that is not a workaround for a CLEAN INSTALL. For dist-upgrades, even assuming systems will be switched automatically (which is still undecided): - one can prevent switching by installing sysvinit-core before the dist-upgrade step - the sysvinit package contains the binary /lib/sysvinit/init which can be used with the init= kernel parameter - there is a grub patch[3] pending integration[4] to offer an alternative sysvinit boot option Yes, and how long after upgrading to jessie staying with sysvinit until things start breaking (most likely subtle breakage, which is the least desirable on a server). [3] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=757298 [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/10/msg00057.html The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no objections. Maybe because most debian *users* don't follow the dev list because they aren't devs... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467bafc.9030...@libertytrek.org
Re: moving LVM logical volumes to new disks
Patrick Ouellette poue...@debian.org writes: On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:52:58PM +0100, lee wrote: Fortunately, downtime isn't an issue. I also have a 32GB USB stick, and all the LVs are smaller than 32GB. Since there seems to be some agreement that it would be best to use pvmove, I think I could, one after the other, move all the LVs to the USB stick with pvmove, plug the USB stick into the other machine, move the LVs onto a hard disk in the other machine, replace disks and move the LVs back the same way. I can keep the VMs shut down while doing this, which allows me to just move the USB stick rather than moving over the network. However, over the network might be more reliable, and I could move all VMs at once with minimal downtime. Hmmm ... Call me unimaganitive or simple, but what about tar or rsync?? Just backup to the other host on the network; swap around drives as needed; create new volume groups; restore from other host. Because it's too simple? ;) Why didn't I think of rsync? I'm using it for backups all the time. How do I make the VMs bootable after copying them back? -- Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons might swallow us. Finally, this fear has become reasonable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87sihkjicr@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
Le 15/11/2014 20:24, Brian a écrit : On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. That assumes that one needs or wants systemd's features. I rather think Andrei might not regard this as answering his challenge. (You also didn't say whether the link's picture made you chuckle :) ). For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant operational impact (time required to deal with changes). Fair enough, but working within the realities of a situation is also part of the deal. The deal for Jessie is systemd. This is not on a take it or leave basis; quite a lot of work has been put into ensuring the alternatives you want are there. It isq : when you have bugs like https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762623 Once said oh it works with systemd, then no more activity on the bug, nothing. That means that practically, systemd is de facto compulsory. Not the default, the only way allowed. So it is take or leave. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467c02d.2010...@rail.eu.org
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. That assumes that one needs or wants systemd's features. I rather think Andrei might not regard this as answering his challenge. (You also didn't say whether the link's picture made you chuckle :) ). Well yes, but also shudder. For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant operational impact (time required to deal with changes). Fair enough, but working within the realities of a situation is also part of the deal. The deal for Jessie is systemd. This is not on a take it or leave basis; quite a lot of work has been put into ensuring the alternatives you want are there. We have been here before, so some of what follows is repetition. For users who feel the same as you it is (AFAIK) the way to get basically what you want. It cannot be definitive because changes between now and the release of Jessie are likely to alter the advice. Upgrading - After changing sources.list and an 'apt-get update' do apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim Then proceed with an upgrade and dist-upgrade. New Install --- Use the apt-get command above immediately after installation or preseed the installation of sysvinit-core and systemd-shim. Both of these may or may not have an operational impact in individual cases but (as an outline) they are (AKAIK) the only ways to avoid systemd-sysv being installed. After that you are on your own, leaving aside bugs. I appreciate any major change to a way of working can be stressful but (without wishing to teach anyone how to do their job) there are ways of testing which can increase confidence in the provided methods. The testing also has the added benefit (should there be problems) of improving on the already large amount of work done within Debian. The BTS would be the appropriate place to put one's experiences. At the risk of repeating myself, I'm going to stick with Wheezy as long as I can, see of LTS kicks in, and wait to see if bug #668001 ever gets fixed (and note that an awful lot of conflict might have been avoided if it had been marked release critical.) Meanwhile, I'm going to start testing other distros, including BSD and illumos based ones. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467c332.9090...@meetinghouse.net
Re: iceweasel Video can't be played because the file is corrupt
On Saturday 15 November 2014 20:38:42 Brad Rogers wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 22:15:05 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Lisi, Sorry, Brad. You are assuming too much functioning brain power. H264 has only always and never. Flash has all three, but once I have set it You're right; I'd not noticed that before. Sorry. to ask to activate, where is the .mp4 link to which you refer? Songbird has the right idea; The .mp4 that Pierre couldn't play. Thanks, Brad. This went to Songbird off-list this morning in error. Sorry Songbird. On Saturday 15 November 2014 03:25:41 songbird wrote: Lisi Reisz wrote: On Friday 14 November 2014 21:04:26 Brad Rogers wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:48:48 + Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Lisi, I have two plugins there. Open H264 video codec and Shockwave Flash. The first says: Play back web video and use video chats. You should see a drop list next to them with three options; Always, Never Ask to Activate. Set them to ask, then go to the link for the .mp4, and you'll be asked if it's okay to play it with XXX. Where XXX represents whatever Iceweasel calls to play the mp4. Sorry, Brad. You are assuming too much functioning brain power. H264 has only always and never. Flash has all three, but once I have set it to ask to activate, where is the .mp4 link to which you refer? i suspect he means the link of the .mp4 file that you are trying to play. Thanks, Songbird. As I said, I could only alter Flash, and that made no difference. Still: Video can't be played because the file is corrupt. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201411152139.29550.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 2014_0733-0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 02:02:07 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote: Am 11.11.2014 um 01:58 schrieb Miles Fidelman: Michael Biebl wrote: Sorry, but that is not what I asked for. I asked for specifics. Your answer doesn't contain any specific problem which would make me able to reproduce any problem. I've tested various use cases and apt-get install -y sysvinit-core always did the right thing. Please show me an example where it doesn't. Frankly, no. 40 years of experience administering various kinds of systems gives me some perspective. I've had enough experience with dependency hell on Debian (apt is phenomenal, expect when it isn't), and ^^ I think you meant 'except', rather than 'expect'. Right? If one could absolutely rely on apt-get always getting it right, then apt-get install -y sysvinit-core could always be used to remove systemd even from a system that has been booted into systemd and running, and not just in the context of a pre-seed. Right? But if that that apt-get command doesn't work on an installation of systemd, *that* is a bug in apt-get that *should* be fixed in Jessie *before* it is released. Right? And the apt-get command, apt-get install -y systemd should switch a host that is running sysvinit or upstart, to running systemd. If not that is *another* bug in apt-get that must be fixed before release of Jessie. If the release team were to accept that *both* these (hypothesized) bugs are release critical, and have them tested and fixed before release, then there might be peace once again in Debian. HTH -- Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115225444.ga27...@big.lan.gnu
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 19:24:49 +, Brian wrote: Upgrading - After changing sources.list and an 'apt-get update' do apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim Then proceed with an upgrade and dist-upgrade. New Install --- Use the apt-get command above immediately after installation or preseed the installation of sysvinit-core and systemd-shim. In the light of https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00063.html I'd like to revise the above and point out that at some time in the near future the command apt-get install sysvinit-core or preseeding the installation of only sysvinit-core should be sufficient. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/15112014231357.f27ee7fd4...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 2014_1200-0500, Tanstaafl wrote: On 11/11/2014 11:38 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: Other people subscribe to a meaning of default which, e.g., assumes only that systemd will get installed as PID 1 unless some action is taken to prevent it from getting so installed. That seems like an entirely reasonable interpretation, at least to me. Absolutely correct. The concept 'Default' implies that there are *alternatives*. Systemd can be installed, and yet not functioning, if the address of some other piece of code is planted in PID 1. Of course, much more than a simple storing of an address value in a specific location in RAM is involved in a successful switch of the *running* init system. Tanstaafl's argument is faulty, IMO. Apt-get can be made to modify the information on disk so that the next boot will install in RAM an init system that is different from the init system under which apt-get was run. This is 'inefficient' but much less 'inefficient' than trying to convince intelligent people of a falsehood thru right reason, which is, in the end, a total waste of eveybody's time. I suggest that the word 'default' not be used any more in this discussion. It serves only to obfuscate the nature of the problem. -- Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141115233738.gb27...@big.lan.gnu
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 11/15/2014 at 06:37 PM, Paul E Condon wrote: I suggest that the word 'default' not be used any more in this discussion. It serves only to obfuscate the nature of the problem. The word default is used in the discussion because the initial decision made by the Debian project in regard to this topic was that the default init system for jessie shall be systemd. You can't avoid the word default unless you avoid discussing that decision, and that decision is one of the things which people do want to discuss. It's also one of the things which is relied upon in justifying some (possibly all) of the changes being made to Debian in relation to systemd. Some people think the decision supports making those changes; other people think it does not. That difference of opinion is, I suspect, rooted in a disagreement about what the word default means. If so, there will be no possibility of resolving the conflict between the people who think the one way and the people who think the other without first resolving that disagreement about the meaning of that word... and resolving that disagreement would require using the word, if only to discuss the word itself in that context. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 2014_1807+0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote: Le Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:42:33 -0500, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org a écrit : On 11/10/2014 6:18 PM, Michael Biebl bi...@debian.org wrote: Am 11.11.2014 um 00:14 schrieb Miles Fidelman: Ok, then explain to me the procedure for running the installer in such a way that systemd is never installed, thus avoiding any potential problems that might result from later uninstallation all the dependencies that systemd brings in with it. Please be specific. What problems of of dependencies are you talking about? Please stop bring up irrelevant questions and address the question being asked. This does require you to at least understand and acknowledge the difference between a *clean* install, and installing something one way, then having to uninstall a primary piece and replace it with something else. The two are not the same, and no amount of you trying to act as if they are will change the fact that they are not. There are no functional differences between an installation with sysvinit-core out of the box or an install where sysvinit-core is installed later, this is a fact. Theory tells us this should be true, but it would be nice if there were experimental evidence. For instance, a demonstration that the files on two hardware-identical computers, with software installed in the two different ways, are bit-for-bit identical. But this can't be done, as I understand the situation, because *clean* install of sysvinit-core is impossible until the dbootstrap bug is fixed. I predict that the initial 'fix' of that bug will fail to achieve your predicted result. Naturally, I hope I'm wrong, but I would like proof. Another topic: My reading of the man page for apt-get seems to say that there is no way to purge the configuration file of packages that were pulled in to satisfy a dependency and subsequently autoremoved. I hope this is an artifact of poor use of English. But if true, it should be fixed. Yet another topic: It should be possible to install systemd on a system that already has some other init system installed on it. This should be tested, but how? -- Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141116002122.gc27...@big.lan.gnu
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 15/11/14 23:04, Paul E Condon wrote: If one could absolutely rely on apt-get always getting it right, then apt-get install -y sysvinit-core could always be used to remove systemd even from a system that has been booted into systemd and running, and not just in the context of a pre-seed. Right? That command is unlikely to actually remove systemd on any Debian jessie system. What it will do is change what the symlink /sbin/init points to so that next time the system on which you do it is rebooted, it will use sysvinit as the init daemon. But if that that apt-get command doesn't work on an installation of systemd, *that* is a bug in apt-get that *should* be fixed in Jessie *before* it is released. Right? Probably wrong. It seems to me that if doing apt-get install -y sysvinit-core on a Debian jessie system fails, it's far more likely to involve a packaging bug in one or more of the packages being added/removed than a bug in apt-get. And the apt-get command, apt-get install -y systemd should switch a host that is running sysvinit or upstart, to running systemd. Nope. It should install the programs comprising the systemd suite... If not that is *another* bug in apt-get that must be fixed before release of Jessie. ... but if you meant apt-get install -y systemd-sysv, I stand by my statement above: any problems arising in this process are unlikely to be bugs in apt-get. And while writing this, I noticed that apt-get install -y systemd-sysv on a system running upstart looks like it will have... *unhappy* consequences, since unlike systemd and sysvinit, upstart has not had its packaging restructured into a package full of programs and a package that changes the /sbin/init symlink. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467ee7c.6090...@zen.co.uk
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 16/11/14 00:21, Paul E Condon wrote: It should be possible to install systemd on a system that already has some other init system installed on it. This should be tested, but how? The obvious way is to upgrade a wheezy system, following the upgrade to jessie while keeping sysvinit as the init system procedure, reboot, and then install the package 'systemd-sysv' and make sure that the system (a) keeps running and (b) reboots cleanly. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467f082.2080...@zen.co.uk
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 11/15/2014 at 07:21 PM, Paul E Condon wrote: On 2014_1807+0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote: There are no functional differences between an installation with sysvinit-core out of the box or an install where sysvinit-core is installed later, this is a fact. Theory tells us this should be true, but it would be nice if there were experimental evidence. For instance, a demonstration that the files on two hardware-identical computers, with software installed in the two different ways, are bit-for-bit identical. While I agree that this is the sort of test that would be needed to satisfy the people who are insisting that you can't be sure there isn't a difference, and while I'd like to see that verified myself, it does go well beyond testing for *functional* differences - at least as I understand that term. Yet another topic: It should be possible to install systemd on a system that already has some other init system installed on it. This should be tested, but how? If I understand what you mean by install systemd, then it's trivial: apt-get install systemd That does not switch the active init system to be systemd. Doing *that* would require: apt-get install systemd-sysv and even that, in its turn, does not (automatically?) remove sysvinit-core from the system; you can still boot to it (from a backup-installed location) with a kernel command line option, as a fallback if systemd does break something too badly to even boot. Or that's the claim, anyway. I've been examining files from sysvinit-core on my own computer in an attempt to remind myself of some of the details of how that works, and at a glance I don't see the backup copy of /sbin/init anywhere... -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote: On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote: On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote: On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote: There are no functional differences between an installation with sysvinit-core out of the box or an install where sysvinit-core is installed later, this is a fact. Allowing the user to choose this at install time from the interface is a nice to have feature (wishlist bug) not a RC bug like you were claiming earlier. There is a potential practical consequence of not advertising an init alternative during setup. It makes users less likely to be aware of it, or even aware that the init system has changed. New users do not need to be be aware of all the background to the choosing of a default init. No advertisement is needed. By definition, they do not care. They want Debian. Please let them have it. They will not care by definition only if they are not aware of the change, and most won't be aware unless they are informed during the installation. They won't know they lost the choice they didn't know they had. Capisce? What choice have they lost? They lost an *informed* choice. I think the installation program should not take sides but just inform the user. A choice that the user is not aware of is the same as no choice, and is potentially coercive and disrespectful. It makes Debian seem partial to Red Hat's business plan to take over the Linux ecosystem. If you care so much about Redhat code, maybe you should document yourself, and see there pay coders for glibc, gcc, the kernel ( a ton of them, according to lwn and linux fundations reports ), on coreutils, gnome, kde, php, python, openssh, etc, etc. Whatever it was, it didn't exist as you imply in Wheezy. It wasn't an issue in Wheezy because the default init option had not changed from the previous release, and any release before that. They won't know, that is, until it bites them somewhere down the line. Then they won't know where to look or who to blame, and will blame Debian. What bites them? Individually, probably something that requires sysvinit or one many core services that got replaced. Collectively, getting trapped by vendor lock-in. You keep using those words, but you do not seems to use them correctly. If the same system is present on more than one distributio, that's not vendor lock-in since you can switch distribution and then reuse the same system. Being tied to one package format ( and so on the ecosystem around ) would be true lock-in. And no one complained that much since Debian existed, despites the .deb having a few shortcomings at start, shortcomings that were fixed later such as having checksum of installed software, a feature rpm had at a time the dpkg didn't ( around 2002, so that's really a old stuff ). In both cases it could be the result of users being steered to the default init by the installation program, leaving alternatives to rot. Alternatives will rot if no one use them, so either you recognize than no one is interested to use them and it will indeed rot, or that the few interested to use them are unable to fill bug reports and help the alternatives survives. Given that a reading of the archives here show less than 50 people by a large margin complaining on this list, I would indeed see that as a minority. ( as I hope there is more than 100 000 to 1 million Debian users, since Ubuntu speak of 20 millions, Fedora speaking around 2 or 3 millions. But that doesn't matter, since 100 000 or 1 million, there would still be far less than 1% of the user base ). Installation time may be only means that most users (like me*) ever would learn about it. * Install instructions? We don't need no stinkin' instructions Reading? You are right. Who wants it? Just spew out nonsense and hope nobody notices. Isn't that where the dumbed-down install is headed? Don't worry about the details silly, Windows tells you when it's time to reboot. The part about Debian being a universal operating system also mean it should aim for people who are not interested in details. Maybe you are ok by having Debian being seen as complicated and hard to use, spewing useless questions on install, but that just mean than regular people will avoid it. And if you want free software to be used, you would recognize that the setting is advanced and do not belong to d-i. Now of course, maybe you are fine of having people staying on Windows or Mac OS X because they have less trouble to install them and to use them, but you kinda lose the right to complain why do no one use Linux ? ( and you also lose the right to complain when others take that opportunity and are successful ). -- l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive:
Systemd
For those who don't read the debian-dev list: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00010.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467f53b.6010...@videotron.ca
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 11:37:14AM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. That assumes that one needs or wants systemd's features. For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant operational impact (time required to deal with changes). Well, maybe taking some of the time you used to send 71 mails over the course of 15 days on this list could be invested into dealing with the changes. It is not like Jessie will not come with others configuration breaking changes ( such as Apache 2.4, to name one ). You say significant operational impact, but all your mails seems to imply that you are basing your analysis on absolutely no test. If you did things right with your servers, you would just have to use your configuration management system to spin a new server to test, either bare metal or a VM if you can't afford a test machine, and see by yourself, and then, be precise in what is the problem. ( provided you use configuration management, but I would find baffling than any serious sysadmin do not use one these days ) Cause if no one can reproduce the problem ( because you give no indication ) and no one can find it ( because people test and have no issues ), it is not different from having a problem that do not really exist, and insisting on it is then no different than baseless trolling. You want to make a difference, so just do something useful. -- l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141116010515.gb22...@gmail.com
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 10:05:49PM +0100, Erwan David wrote: Le 15/11/2014 20:24, Brian a écrit : On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Brian wrote: On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. That assumes that one needs or wants systemd's features. I rather think Andrei might not regard this as answering his challenge. (You also didn't say whether the link's picture made you chuckle :) ). For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant operational impact (time required to deal with changes). Fair enough, but working within the realities of a situation is also part of the deal. The deal for Jessie is systemd. This is not on a take it or leave basis; quite a lot of work has been put into ensuring the alternatives you want are there. It isq : when you have bugs like https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762623 Once said oh it works with systemd, then no more activity on the bug, nothing. I would suggest to read the url you post. There was a message from the maintainer saying sorry, i tought I answered, I already reported it to udev, please give more information on the bug. Then indeed, you didn't followed up. That means that practically, systemd is de facto compulsory. Not the default, the only way allowed. So it is take or leave. I think this conclusion is likely wrong and hasty, given the lack of activity is a result on waiting on more information from the reporter. -- l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141116011301.gc22...@gmail.com
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On 11/15/2014 06:49 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote: On 11/14/2014 05:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote: snip Jumping in here as myself, not Joel's tag-team member. :) Debian as an entity doesn't really do much. There are only one or several volunteers who start doing things. Setting up a separate port for systemd would have been a major waste of resources (both human and hardware) with no real gain. By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to repair damage from excessive coupling. I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates systemd's features with a combination of other software. http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html You are completely dismissing the work of Debian Developers who *did* have a very good look at the options and decided switching to systemd is doable and would be a good thing from a *technical* point of view. Non-responsive to his argument. If the work was biased and over-optimistic then it doesn't matter how much they looked at it. This argument cuts both ways :) However, you and several others are rejecting systemd on ideological grounds. There's not much that can be done about that, short or re-implementing systemd according to your vision. Many others reject choice and the anti-choice stance is the ideological position at issue here. It is in direct conflict with Debian policy. The systemd upstream are the ones with vision, ideology, rejecting opponents as haters in an overt campaign to establish a Linux monopoly. They have a financial interest in *psychological projection* of this kind. I still cannot see what Debian stands to gain by jumping on their marketing bandwagon. At least some of people rejecting systemd demand that it be removed completely, including libsystemd. How is it pro-choice to forbid me from being able to use a software at its full potential? For me it's more about being unable to remove it completely, because of vendor lock-in. There's no technical reason that I know of that anything in userspace cannot modular, and replaceable, so when something cannot be replaced then an alternative must be provided, or else my default assumption is that vendor lock-in is in effect. I hope you do understand why neither the systemd developers, maintainers or users have any interest whatsoever in doing that. But upstreams have other interests, like establishment of a Linux monopoly via tying and customer lock-in. Why should there not be a rational effort to counter that? In my opinion the best defence against a monopoly[1] of any kind is to develop competitive alternatives. That's true on a level playing field, but here is just one player with control of the user-space software stack, fully leveraging it by dependency tying. It's like a manufacturing business that creates a monopoly by vertically integrating, in a way that no competitor can. [1] which I don't believe applies, but will ignore for the moment. They seem determined to make it apply in the future, so that's what drives the original concern (for me). It may apply in a way you are not expecting. After all, systemd already works fine for them. Windows already works fine for most people, and it is consistent with the anti-choice philosophy, so why bother with Linux at all? Doesn't work fine for me. At $dayjob I'm forced to use it and I can tell you my private laptop with a Dual Core 1,8 GHz and 2 GB RAM runs circles around a Core i5 with Windows 7. But this is off-topic for d-u. It might be somewhat on-topic after all, because I was thinking more about Windows 10, which is Red Hat's likely target and competitor. Debian and the other free software distros are just Wall Street cannon fodder. Kind regards, Andrei -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5467fc2d.7010...@ix.netcom.com
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 03:43:40PM -0500, Tanstaafl wrote: On 11/15/2014 7:20 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:55:47, Tanstaafl wrote: On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: It was claimed that sysvinit was the default *and only* (emphasis not mine) init, and therefore no selection was needed, but now that there are several a selection suddenly is needed. I don't recall claiming that sysvinit was the *only* init, nor do I recall anyone else making such a claim. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/11/msg00814.html Maybe a language issue? (I'm not a native speaker). Nope, that was me and I actually did say it... weird that I didn't remember saying that... but it doesn't really change anything... That's a attempt at moonlighting people, not very classy. Just because other init systems exist doesn't mean they were actually being used, other than maybe just someone toying around. Are you seriously suggesting that anything other than a tiny and insignificant fraction were using anything other than sysvinit (until systemd came along at least)? For fresh installs, given that there is a suitable[1] workaround sigh how many times does it have to be said - that is not a workaround for a CLEAN INSTALL. For dist-upgrades, even assuming systems will be switched automatically (which is still undecided): - one can prevent switching by installing sysvinit-core before the dist-upgrade step - the sysvinit package contains the binary /lib/sysvinit/init which can be used with the init= kernel parameter - there is a grub patch[3] pending integration[4] to offer an alternative sysvinit boot option Yes, and how long after upgrading to jessie staying with sysvinit until things start breaking (most likely subtle breakage, which is the least desirable on a server). The distinction server/desktop is clearly not relevent. There is huge deployment of Debian desktop, and they do not want subtle breakage anymore than others people. Now, if there is breakage ( so far, you speak of the future ), it will be because no one detected them in the first place, and given the Debian structure, that mean that not enough people were using that setup on testing and/or unstable. For this, there is a few fixes : - find people to test that ( starting by yourself ). If half of the people who rant since a few months on this list were doing tests and filling bug report, this would be rock solid. - automate that testing ( Ubuntu has a lot of ressources on the topic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation and so does OpenSuse ). - make sure that bugfixes are propagated faster to stable and provides patches and or bugs when stable is here. Now of course, if no one take time to do any of theses, that's gonna cause problem. But that's a problem because people who want the work to happen do not make it happen. ( and no we do not have time, if people have time to post on ml, they have time to post bug reports ). [3] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=757298 [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/10/msg00057.html The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no objections. Maybe because most debian *users* don't follow the dev list because they aren't devs... At the same time, most debian users likely do not really care about transition plan and systemd. It was widely published everywhere in March and yet, no one would have cared if this mattered ? And those that care should make the efforts to follow what happen in the distribution, reading one or two time a week the title on a web archive is not a huge time investment. ( at least not more than following this lists and answering on it ) -- l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141116013520.gd22...@gmail.com
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On 11/15/2014 07:45 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote: On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote: On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote: On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote: There are no functional differences between an installation with sysvinit-core out of the box or an install where sysvinit-core is installed later, this is a fact. Allowing the user to choose this at install time from the interface is a nice to have feature (wishlist bug) not a RC bug like you were claiming earlier. There is a potential practical consequence of not advertising an init alternative during setup. It makes users less likely to be aware of it, or even aware that the init system has changed. New users do not need to be be aware of all the background to the choosing of a default init. No advertisement is needed. By definition, they do not care. They want Debian. Please let them have it. They will not care by definition only if they are not aware of the change, and most won't be aware unless they are informed during the installation. They won't know they lost the choice they didn't know they had. Capisce? What choice have they lost? They lost an *informed* choice. I think the installation program should not take sides but just inform the user. A choice that the user is not aware of is the same as no choice, and is potentially coercive and disrespectful. It makes Debian seem partial to Red Hat's business plan to take over the Linux ecosystem. If you care so much about Redhat code, maybe you should document yourself, and see there pay coders for glibc, gcc, the kernel ( a ton of them, according to lwn and linux fundations reports ), on coreutils, gnome, kde, php, python, openssh, etc, etc. Whatever it was, it didn't exist as you imply in Wheezy. It wasn't an issue in Wheezy because the default init option had not changed from the previous release, and any release before that. They won't know, that is, until it bites them somewhere down the line. Then they won't know where to look or who to blame, and will blame Debian. What bites them? Individually, probably something that requires sysvinit or one many core services that got replaced. Collectively, getting trapped by vendor lock-in. You keep using those words, but you do not seems to use them correctly. If the same system is present on more than one distributio, that's not vendor lock-in since you can switch distribution and then reuse the same system. I meant that one vendor seeks to control the Linux ecosystem. Whether that plan is viable or even sane, is another issue, but I am not eager to see if their plan will succeed or be a guinea pin in the experiment. (I would like to see systemd succeed in Debian, however, *without* sacrificing modularity or user choice. That would be like embrace and extend in reverse, and could serve to protect downstreams.) Being tied to one package format ( and so on the ecosystem around ) would be true lock-in. And no one complained that much since Debian existed, despites the .deb having a few shortcomings at start, shortcomings that were fixed later such as having checksum of installed software, a feature rpm had at a time the dpkg didn't ( around 2002, so that's really a old stuff ). In both cases it could be the result of users being steered to the default init by the installation program, leaving alternatives to rot. Alternatives will rot if no one use them, so either you recognize than no one is interested to use them and it will indeed rot, or that the few interested to use them are unable to fill bug reports and help the alternatives survives. Given that a reading of the archives here show less than 50 people by a large margin complaining on this list, I would indeed see that as a minority. ( as I hope there is more than 100 000 to 1 million Debian users, since Ubuntu speak of 20 millions, Fedora speaking around 2 or 3 millions. But that doesn't matter, since 100 000 or 1 million, there would still be far less than 1% of the user base ). I don't think Debian (or FOSS, for that matter) was ever about a winner-take-all approach to software choice. That seems to have originated in the commercial distributions, which have a financial interest in a) controlling users and b) controlling costs. I don't think that philosophy was ever part of Debian in the past. I had thought that all it takes is one interested maintainer to keep a package alive in Debian. You might also be simplifying the problem. Software entanglement is a complex technical problem. There's a reason it's regarded as lock-in, because it's a technical cage that can be hard to break out of. It herds users in one direction, so the popularity issue is not only irrelevant, but misleading. I don't think there is a direct relationship between the number of users of alternate software, and the importance of maintaining it. I would say it's more of an opposite
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
Marty wrote: On 11/15/2014 07:45 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote: On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote: On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote: On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote: There are no functional differences between an installation with sysvinit-core out of the box or an install where sysvinit-core is installed later, this is a fact. Allowing the user to choose this at install time from the interface is a nice to have feature (wishlist bug) not a RC bug like you were claiming earlier. There is a potential practical consequence of not advertising an init alternative during setup. It makes users less likely to be aware of it, or even aware that the init system has changed. New users do not need to be be aware of all the background to the choosing of a default init. No advertisement is needed. By definition, they do not care. They want Debian. Please let them have it. They will not care by definition only if they are not aware of the change, and most won't be aware unless they are informed during the installation. They won't know they lost the choice they didn't know they had. Capisce? What choice have they lost? They lost an *informed* choice. I think the installation program should not take sides but just inform the user. A choice that the user is not aware of is the same as no choice, and is potentially coercive and disrespectful. It makes Debian seem partial to Red Hat's business plan to take over the Linux ecosystem. If you care so much about Redhat code, maybe you should document yourself, and see there pay coders for glibc, gcc, the kernel ( a ton of them, according to lwn and linux fundations reports ), on coreutils, gnome, kde, php, python, openssh, etc, etc. Whatever it was, it didn't exist as you imply in Wheezy. It wasn't an issue in Wheezy because the default init option had not changed from the previous release, and any release before that. They won't know, that is, until it bites them somewhere down the line. Then they won't know where to look or who to blame, and will blame Debian. What bites them? Individually, probably something that requires sysvinit or one many core services that got replaced. Collectively, getting trapped by vendor lock-in. You keep using those words, but you do not seems to use them correctly. If the same system is present on more than one distributio, that's not vendor lock-in since you can switch distribution and then reuse the same system. I meant that one vendor seeks to control the Linux ecosystem. Whether that plan is viable or even sane, is another issue, but I am not eager to see if their plan will succeed or be a guinea pin in the experiment. As much as I dislike systemd, I'm not sure that it's a vendor conspiracy to control the Linux ecosystem. Yes, redhat pays Lennart Poettering's salary (among others). But... I'm hard pressed to see how turning a collection of free distros into functional equivalent's of redhat, or increasing the resources applied to free distros, is really to their benefit. If anything, it would seem to dilute the competitive advantage of paid RHEL. Personally, I think it's more a matter of one, prima donna developer, who has the advantage of a salary, who has a vision and design philosophy that he's promoting in a very aggressive and single minded way. And he's very overt about it. (Somebody posted an email from Poettering last week saying, roughly, 'first we're going to get kdbus into the kernel, then we're going to make udev depend on it, and then everyone will have to eat systemd to get udev.' As I recall, the message closed with 'gentoo, be warned.') I figure this is more a case of redhat management not wanting to tick off valued prima donna, and maybe seeing what he's doing as a contribution to the open source community (to date, redhat has been pretty good about contributing to the community in lots of different ways). Still, if I were in their shoes, I'd be trying to reign the guys in. Given that RHEL's main selling points are enterprise capabilities, quality control, and (for the government market) security accreditation and lots of support, I'd much rather see diversity and weak code spread across competing distributions. But then, what do I know? Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54680ed3.80...@meetinghouse.net
Which Debian category am I located?
There are tons of categories on Debian Mailing-List? I forgot which one am I located, when I tried to search the archive. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54682487.1080...@tfwno.gf
Re: cannot open display: :0.0
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 09:36:22PM +0100, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote: Heb nog eens een nieuwe installatie van testing gedaan. Met XFCE, LXDE, Cinnamon, Mate, om deze ook eens te bekijken. Wanneer ik in een terminal 'su' naar root, om het even in welke window manager, en ik start een grafisch programma, bijvoorbeeld Synaptic, dan krijg ik dit: # synaptic No protocol specified ** (synaptic:1393): WARNING **: Could not open X display No protocol specified Unable to init server: Could not connect: Connection refused (synaptic:1393): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 Heb ik niet eerder meegemaakt. Wat wel lukt is om als user in b.v. XFCE 'Synaptic' in het menu te kiezen, dan wordt om het root-wachtwoord gevraagd en start Synaptic. Wat kan hier aan de hand zijn? Computer is opgestart, het log in process is nog van root. Bij grafische login is dat een proces als gdm Na log in is zijn schermen en zo, bijvoorbeeld de Xterm, van de user. Door de `su` ( switch user ) wordt je een andere user, die andere user is niet de eigenaar van de Xterm. Er zijn, zo ver ik weet, twee manieren waarmee de eerste user aan de volgende user toestemming kan geven om de Xterm, het DISPLAY, te gebruiken. Met behulp van `sux` uit het package met dezelfde naam. of met behulp van een (moderne[1]) sudo. In plaats van `su` gebruik je dan dus `sux` of `sudo su`. Groeten Geert Stappers [1] de eerste versies van `sudo` deden niets met/voor Xwindow -- Leven en laten leven signature.asc Description: Digital signature
