Falta de idiomas en debian 9.x (ISO image) y funcionamiento incorrecto de speakup

[Fran Torres]

BUenas,

Me llamo Fran, soy usuario (más bien futuro usuario) ciego de debian.
  Al descargar la versión 9.x de debian (9.0.0, 9.4.0 y 9.5.0), me he
dado cuenta que, al arrancar utilizando accesibilidad por voz (speakup
pulsando la s y enter durante el arranque) solo hay 29 idiomas para
elegir durante la instalación, frente a los más de 40 que hay en las
versiones anteriores; entre los cuales, no se encuentra el español,
estando sólo: euskera (num 4), catalán (num 8) y english (num 13) en
la consola de instalación.

  También me he dado cuenta que, cuando el instalador lleva más de 3
minutos sin actividad (todo esto ha sido probado bajo una vm de
vmware) speakup aparentemente crashea o se cuelga, dejando de hablar
durante el resto de la instalación. También ocurre el mismo
comportamiento a partir de que solicita la contraseña de root
(evidentemente durante la instalación). Sobre todo, si se cambia el
idioma por defecto (english) a cualquier otro. También alerta de que
las traducciones podrían estar incompletas.

  Es posible cambiar/corregir esto en alguna de las versiones 9.x de
debian, ya que esto es vastante importante a tener en cuenta para
usuarios invidentes?

Fran.

Re: which program/command can show wireless connection quality?

[Richard Hector]

On 10/08/18 17:54, Reco wrote:
>   Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:44:42AM +1200, Richard Hector wrote:
>> On 09/08/18 19:00, Reco wrote:
>>> Also, consider wrapping a sheet of tin foil around USB WiFi dongle,
>>> transforming stock omni-directional antenna to uni-directional.
>>
>> Uni-directional or no-directional?
>>
>> I'd have thought you want to be fairly specific and precise with your
>> 'wrapping' to get a benefit ...
> 
> Google it. [2] uses a strainer, not a tinfoil, but is pretty close to
> what I meant.
> 
> [2] 
> http://homestead-and-survival.com/diy-uni-directional-usb-wifi-range-extender/

Sure. I just meant that naively 'wrapping it in foil' is unlikely to get
the desired result.

Richard




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Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[arne]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 22:35:19 +0100
Mark Rousell  wrote:

> On 09/08/2018 18:39, tech wrote:
> > Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something
> > more modern like a bugzilla or else ???  
> 
> No. Mail lists works as well now as they did then.
> 
> Mail lists are efficient, to the point, simple to use.
> 
> Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
> 
> 
try to fix? try to ruin IMHO

Re: xft, fontconfig, xfs, XF86Config-4, defoma

[d gf]

Wss  i

Enviado desde mi iPhone

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Mark Rousell]

On 10/08/2018 00:03, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
>
> No.  This is an absolutely terrible idea.  Here's why mailing lists
> are (along with Usenet newsgroups) vastly superior to web-based anything:
> [excellent list redacted for brevity]

Well said! What a very useful list of the reasons that mail lists
continue to have great practical utility.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Mark Rousell]

On 09/08/2018 18:39, tech wrote:
> Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something
> more modern like a bugzilla or else ???

No. Mail lists works as well now as they did then.

Mail lists are efficient, to the point, simple to use.

Don't try to fix what isn't broken.


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: What time is it, really?

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 07:46:46PM +0200, Fekete Tamás wrote:

verify the output. note: ntpd has to run!). Assume, that you choosed the proper
time source for sync, so it means that the mechanism which steps your clock
locally is broken. It can be battery reasons on the mainboard, temperature can
also influence (but not too much nowadays), if you use virtual machine, that
matters a lot, as it gets the CPU cycles from the host machine, and it's inner
time stepping highly depends on the CPU time given by the host, finally I have
never read anything about the effect of overclocking the CPU, it might have
also effect on this, but test should be run to be sure.


It's also really bad to run more than one time synchronization at 
once--they'll tend to confuse each other and cause random time shifts.



Ntpd has higher threshold to step the clock.
"After some time, small offsets (significantly less than a second) will be
slewed (adjusted slowly), while larger offsets will cause the clock to be
stepped (set anew)."
Source: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-algo.htm


This isn't true on ntpd startup; it'll step the clock to get it close 
and slew thereafter. The only case where this a problem is if there are 
major issues with the local clock. (Which generally means you have 
bigger problems.) You may be thinking of the behavior where ntpd will 
exit on startup if the time is too far off. Using the -g option causes 
it to just set the time and carry on. (There are pros and cons to both 
approaches.)


Mike Stone

Re: iptables et fwbuilder

[Ph. Gras]

Salut Mic,

> 
 J'ai bien créé la règle, elle semble se compiler mais elle n'apparaît
 pas dans la sortie de iptables -L

iptables -nvL te permettra d'afficher les adresses IP sous forme numérique :

iptables -L
DROP   tcp  --  informak.net anywhere tcp dpt:smtp /* 
spam mail soldat messageboutique.pro (informak.net) 30 juil. 2018 */

iptables -nL
DROP   tcp  --  137.74.94.17 0.0.0.0/0tcp dpt:25 /* 
spam mail soldat messageboutique.pro (informak.net) 30 juil. 2018 */

iptables --help

  --list-L [chain [rulenum]]
List the rules in a chain or all chains
  --numeric -n  numeric output of addresses and ports
  --verbose -v  verbose mode

host youtube.com
youtube.com has address 216.58.205.46
youtube.com has IPv6 address 2a00:1450:4002:806::200e

Ceci fait, un truc comme ci-après devrait fonctionner en ligne de commande 
(remplacer -s par ton adresse) :

iptables -t filter -I OUTPUT -p tcp -m multiport --dports 80,443 -s 
111.222.333.444/5 -d 216.58.205.46 -j DROP -m comment --comment "interdit 
adresse -d à partir de IPv4 -s"

iptables -t filter -I OUTPUT -p tcp -m multiport --dports 80,443 -s 
111.222.333.444/5 -d 2a00:1450:4002:806::200e -j DROP -m comment --comment 
"interdit adresse IPv6 -d à partir de IPv4 -s"

iptables -h
  --append  -A chainAppend to chain

  --insert  -I chain [rulenum]

[!] --source-s address[/mask][...]
source specification
[!] --destination -d address[/mask][…]


 Par la suite, je souhaite restreindre cette règles à certaines
 adresses MAC seulement.

Pour filtrer les adresses MAC, je ne sais pas. Mais tu peux déjà essayer de 
filtrer "/5" de ton réseau.

Re: What time is it, really?

[David Wright]

On Fri 10 Aug 2018 at 09:20:42 (-0700), Fred wrote:
> On 08/10/2018 08:18 AM, David Wright wrote:
> >On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 14:26:30 (-0700), Fred wrote:
> >>Several years ago I built a "network clock" that receives WWVB time
> >>signals, has a clock display and an Ethernet interface so computers
> >>on the local network can ask for the time.  The hardware works and
> >>the software is able to decode the WWVB time code.  I am interested
> >>in finishing it now.  The computers on the network can use a Perl
> >>program to get the time.
> >Interesting. I played around with a Wireless World design in the
> >early 70's (TTL) where the "Rugby" time code (the slow one) was
> >decoded in hardware.

Correction: it was the fast code I was using. I was confused by the
fact that we also used a BCD-encoded slow code on some of our clocks
around the same time; the latter was necessarily slow because there
were mechanical relays that had to be able to follow it.

> I haven't tried chrony as I have renewed interest in completing the
> "network clock" project I started some time ago.  There are far more
> interesting "home projects" than you can shake a stick at.  I ran
> ntpdate once as root and it did correct the time.
> 
> WWVB supposedly covers the continental US. but I am sure there are
> areas that don't get useful signal strength.  The software for my
> clock is to the point of changing the signal time intervals into
> bits so the next step is doing something with the bits.

Best of luck with this, and far better done in software. I turned up
a reference to the one I played with:
http://www.keith-snook.info/wireless-world-magazine/Wireless-World-1976/Self-setting%20time%20code%20clock.pdf
and its lifetime would have lasted until 1998 when they turned off
the fast code at MSF. But 1976 was about the time that microprocessors
were becoming affordable for this kind of work.

AFAIK signal strength is not an issue for us as there's not a lot
between here and CO. The only radio clock I've known to have an issue
was one that wouldn't synchronise in a UK church vestry. I swapped it
for an ancient electric wall clock, and the radio one worked perfectly
in our basement.

Cheers,
David.

iptables config resets after restarting system

[Hubert Hauser]

Good afternoon!

I've problem with resetting iptables after restarting system. Here's my
/usr/local/bin/fwall-rules file:

#!/bin/bash

IPTABLES=/sbin/iptables
IP6TABLES=/sbin/ip6tables

echo -e "\n ** clean rules ** \n"

echo " * flushing old rules"
${IPTABLES} --flush
${IPTABLES} --delete-chain
${IPTABLES} --table nat --flush
${IPTABLES} --table nat --delete-chain

${IP6TABLES} --flush
${IP6TABLES} --delete-chain
${IP6TABLES} --table nat --flush
${IP6TABLES} --table nat --delete-chain

echo " * setting default policies"
${IPTABLES} -P INPUT DROP
${IPTABLES} -P FORWARD DROP
${IPTABLES} -P OUTPUT ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -P INPUT DROP
${IP6TABLES} -P FORWARD DROP
${IP6TABLES} -P OUTPUT ACCEPT

echo -e "\n ** input chain rules ** \n"

echo " * allowing loopback devices"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp ! --syn -m state --state NEW -j DROP
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT
${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp ! --syn -m state --state NEW -j DROP
${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT

## BLOCK ABUSING IPs HERE ##
#echo " * BLACKLIST"
#${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -s _ABUSIVE_IP_ -j DROP
#${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -s _ABUSIVE_IP2_ -j DROP

echo " * allowing ssh on port 16960"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 16960  -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 16960  -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT

#echo " * allowing ftp on port 21"
#${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 21  -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT

echo " * allowing dns on port 53 udp"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p udp -m udp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p udp -m udp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT

echo " * allowing dns on port 53 tcp"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT

echo " * allowing http on port 80"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 80  -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 80  -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT

echo " * allowing https on port 443"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 443 -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 443 -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT

echo " * allowing smtp on port 25"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 25 -j
ACCEPT

echo " * allowing smtps on port 465"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 465 -j
ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 465 -j
ACCEPT

echo " * allowing submission on port 587"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 587 -j
ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 587 -j
ACCEPT

echo " * allowing imaps on port 993"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 993 -j
ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 993 -j
ACCEPT

echo " * allowing pop3s on port 995"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 995 -j
ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 995 -j
ACCEPT

echo " * allowing imap on port 143"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 143 -j
ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 143 -j
ACCEPT

echo " * allowing pop3 on port 110"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 110 -j
ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 110 -j
ACCEPT

echo " * allowing ping responses"
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -p ICMP -j ACCEPT

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -p ICMPv6 -j ACCEPT

# DROP everything else and Log it
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -j LOG --log-prefix "iptables-reject "
${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -j REJECT --reject-with icmp-host-prohibited

${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -j LOG --log-prefix "ip6tables-reject "
${IP6TABLES} -A INPUT -j REJECT --reject-with icmp6-adm-prohibited

#
# Save settings
#
echo -e " * SAVING RULES\n"

iptables-save > /etc/iptables/rules.v4
iptables-apply /etc/iptables/rules.v4

ip6tables-save > /etc/iptables/rules.v6
ip6tables-apply /etc/iptables/rules.v6

echo -e "\n * DONE!\n"

Here's my iptables config before restarting system:

# iptables-save
# Generated by iptables-save v1.6.0 on Fri Aug 10 22:24:06 2018
*nat
:PREROUTING ACCEPT [893:55496]
:INPUT ACCEPT [31:1408]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [118:7908]
:POSTROUTING ACCEPT [118:7908]
COMMIT
# Completed on Fri Aug 10 22:24:06 2018
# Generated by iptables-save v1.6.0 on Fri Aug 10 22:24:06 2018
*filter
:INPUT DROP [0:0]
:FORWARD DROP [0:0]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [7920:1029798]
:f2b-nginx-botsearch - [0:0]
:f2b-nginx-http-auth - [0:0]
:f2b-nginx-limit-req - [0:0]
:f2b-php-url-fopen - [0:0]
:f2b-sshd - [0:0]
:f2b-sshd-ddos - [0:0]
-A INPUT -p tcp -j f2b-php-url-fopen
-A INPUT -p tcp -j f2b-nginx-botsearch
-A INPUT -p tcp -j f2b-nginx-limit-req
-A INPUT -p tcp -j f2b-nginx-http-auth
-A INPUT -p 

Re: iptables et fwbuilder

[Migrec]

Bonjour,

Merci pour vos réponses. Je vais clarifier ma demande.

Le 10/08/2018 à 21:10, Pierre L. a écrit :

Bonsoir,

Le 10/08/2018 à 20:36, Pascal Hambourg a écrit :

Le 10/08/2018 à 08:47, Migrec a écrit :

Je cherche à bloquer un site internet grâce à fwbuilder.

C'est-à-dire ?

A mon avis, il cherche à interdire l'accès à un site internet hébergé
quelque part sur la toile... mettre en place une sorte de filtrage web.


Exactement, je veux empêcher à un téléphone et une tablette d'accéder à 
youtube. Mais pas sur les autres postes du réseau.



Je dispose d'une petit serveur Debian et de clients Ubuntu ainsi que
des téléphones/tablettes.

Quel rapport avec ce qui précède ?

Peut-être pense-t-il que certains sur cette liste pourraient l'aider à
trouver une solution adéquat en utilisant ce petit serveur existant ?
Via une règle DNS, ou autre...? Il pourrait être judicieux de savoir si
ce petit serveur sert de routeur entre le réseau local et l'internet...?
Le listing des clients pourrait permettre à la liste de proposer des
solutions logicielles à installer directement sur les clients ? Oui il
peut y avoir à mon avis un certain rapport avec la question précédemment
posée...


Le serveur est entre ma box et ma réseau local. Il me sert à tout : 
serveur NFS, CUPS, DNLA, DNS local, Backuppc, etc.




J'ai bien créé la règle, elle semble se compiler mais elle n'apparaît
pas dans la sortie de iptables -L

Je ne connais pas fwbuilder, seulement iptables.

A ma connaissance, fwbuilder permet de créer des règles iptables
facilement à l'aide de son interface. Cette GUI est plus simple à
prendre en mains et parait certainement plus claire que des instructions
iptables pour quelqu'un qui ne connaît pas ou ne comprend pas les
commandes à injecter.
C'est un peu le Kompozer du code HTML pour ceux qui connaissent... qui
"tapera" tout seul le code HTML selon le design et le contenu que désire
créer la personne via cette interface type traitement de texte.

Par la suite, je souhaite restreindre cette règles à certaines
adresses MAC seulement.

C'est-à-dire ?


Je pense que Migrec souhaite bloquer certains sites comme précédemment
exposé, mais uniquement à certaines machines de son réseau,
identifiables par leurs adresses MAC... c'est une piste qu'il propose...?


Dans un premier temps, je vais bloquer pour tout le monde et après 
j'irai au plus fin (adresse MAC des postes).
Je ne suis pas un professionnel mais j'ai beaucoup mis les mains dans la 
cambouis depuis 20ans. Mais là, mes connaissances sont trop anciennes et 
l'outil fwbuiler me paraissait pas mal pour entretenir mon firewall. Je 
n'ai rien trouvé d'autre qui pouvait me convenir.

--
Mic Grentz

Re: manuals

[Brian]

On Fri 10 Aug 2018 at 20:43:22 +0100, mick crane wrote:

> On 2018-08-10 20:31, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 10 Aug 2018 at 20:16:33 +0100, mick crane wrote:
> > 
> > > Is it OK if I wget the webpages from
> > > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/  ?
> > > to look at locally or are there handy archives I could download ?
> > 
> > We expect you have explored the links on that page and found there are
> > Debian packages for a great deal of this material.
> 
> I saw one or two mentioned. ( are they the webpages ? )
> I like the layout that you get with the webpages and the links make it all
> easy to read.

For example:

https://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals#refcard

apt install debian-refcard

-- 
Brian.

Re: manuals

[mick crane]

On 2018-08-10 20:31, Brian wrote:

On Fri 10 Aug 2018 at 20:16:33 +0100, mick crane wrote:

Is it OK if I wget the webpages from 
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/  ?

to look at locally or are there handy archives I could download ?


We expect you have explored the links on that page and found there are
Debian packages for a great deal of this material.


I saw one or two mentioned. ( are they the webpages ? )
I like the layout that you get with the webpages and the links make it 
all easy to read.


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: What time is it, really?

[David Wright]

On Fri 10 Aug 2018 at 11:32:35 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:18:19AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> >Currently we have a consumer radio clock which is a source of mystery
> >to me twice a year: the DST change occurs in the early evening on
> >Saturday instead of Sunday morning.
> 
> The clock isn't properly decoding the DST bits. See
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB
[…]
> Your clock is probably only looking at the first bit, and skipping
> the logic for when to actually apply the change. A lot of the
> functionality in the time code actually allows for relatively
> graceful degradation like this to facilitate simpler or more complex
> receivers.

Ah, that makes sense. So the different time of the change (which meant
I didn't remember precisely what time it happened) is because of the
varying offset (5, 6 hours) in spring and autumn, and a delay after
that hour o'clock would likely indicate varying signal strength and
lapses in reliable code detection. Now I know what's happening, I can
watch for the latter. Being a dial clock, there's no signal strength
indicator. Our LCD clock does display it approximately, but that only
understands MSF, not WWVB, so it's now free-running (remarkably well
especially since the Low Battery warning has been flashing since
before Christmas).

Cheers,
David.

Re: manuals

[Ben Finney]

mick crane  writes:

> Is it OK if I wget the webpages from
> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ ?
> to look at locally or are there handy archives I could download ?

Yes, it's okay for you to download them. Most of them you don't need to,
because there is a more convenient way.

Many of the manuals are in Debian as packages to install; browse the
“doc” section in Aptitude (or your favourite package manager interface)
to discover many documentation packages to install.

-- 
 \   “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not |
  `\entitled to their own facts.” —US Senator Pat Moynihan |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: manuals

[Brian]

On Fri 10 Aug 2018 at 20:16:33 +0100, mick crane wrote:

> Is it OK if I wget the webpages from https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/  ?
> to look at locally or are there handy archives I could download ?

We expect you have explored the links on that page and found there are
Debian packages for a great deal of this material.

-- 
Brian.

Re: iptables et fwbuilder

[Pierre L.]

Bonsoir,

Le 10/08/2018 à 20:36, Pascal Hambourg a écrit :
> Le 10/08/2018 à 08:47, Migrec a écrit :
>>
>> Je cherche à bloquer un site internet grâce à fwbuilder.
>
> C'est-à-dire ?
A mon avis, il cherche à interdire l'accès à un site internet hébergé
quelque part sur la toile... mettre en place une sorte de filtrage web.

>
>> Je dispose d'une petit serveur Debian et de clients Ubuntu ainsi que
>> des téléphones/tablettes.
>
> Quel rapport avec ce qui précède ?
Peut-être pense-t-il que certains sur cette liste pourraient l'aider à
trouver une solution adéquat en utilisant ce petit serveur existant ?
Via une règle DNS, ou autre...? Il pourrait être judicieux de savoir si
ce petit serveur sert de routeur entre le réseau local et l'internet...?
Le listing des clients pourrait permettre à la liste de proposer des
solutions logicielles à installer directement sur les clients ? Oui il
peut y avoir à mon avis un certain rapport avec la question précédemment
posée...
>
>> J'ai bien créé la règle, elle semble se compiler mais elle n'apparaît
>> pas dans la sortie de iptables -L
>
> Je ne connais pas fwbuilder, seulement iptables.
A ma connaissance, fwbuilder permet de créer des règles iptables
facilement à l'aide de son interface. Cette GUI est plus simple à
prendre en mains et parait certainement plus claire que des instructions
iptables pour quelqu'un qui ne connaît pas ou ne comprend pas les
commandes à injecter.
C'est un peu le Kompozer du code HTML pour ceux qui connaissent... qui
"tapera" tout seul le code HTML selon le design et le contenu que désire
créer la personne via cette interface type traitement de texte.
>
>> Par la suite, je souhaite restreindre cette règles à certaines
>> adresses MAC seulement.
>
> C'est-à-dire ?
>
Je pense que Migrec souhaite bloquer certains sites comme précédemment
exposé, mais uniquement à certaines machines de son réseau,
identifiables par leurs adresses MAC... c'est une piste qu'il propose...?

Espérant être au plus proche de la réalité de ta demande, et ne pas
avoir trop déformé tes paroles ;)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

manuals

[mick crane]

Is it OK if I wget the webpages from https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ 
 ?

to look at locally or are there handy archives I could download ?

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: iptables et fwbuilder

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 10/08/2018 à 08:47, Migrec a écrit :


Je cherche à bloquer un site internet grâce à fwbuilder.


C'est-à-dire ?

Je dispose 
d'une petit serveur Debian et de clients Ubuntu ainsi que des 
téléphones/tablettes.


Quel rapport avec ce qui précède ?

J'ai bien créé la règle, elle semble se compiler mais elle n'apparaît 
pas dans la sortie de iptables -L


Je ne connais pas fwbuilder, seulement iptables.

1) iptables -L n'affiche que la table "filter". Si la règle a été créée 
dans une autre table ("mangle" par exemple, bien qu'elle ne soit pas 
prévue pour le filtrage), cette commande ne l'affichera pas.
Il vaut mieux utiliser iptables-save qui affiche toutes les tables 
actives dans un format plus lisible proche de la syntaxe de création par 
iptables.


2) Si la règle a été créée avec le nom du site à bloquer, celui-ci a été 
résolu en adresse IP lors de la création, et la règle effective ne 
contient que l'adresse IP, pas le nom.


Par la suite, je souhaite restreindre cette règles à certaines adresses 
MAC seulement.


C'est-à-dire ?

Re: What time is it, really?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 10 August 2018 13:46:46 Fekete Tamás wrote:

> Dear guys,
>
> I think lot of answers flied through on the original questions and I
> didn't see proper answers to them, so I would like to add my
> contribution to this topic:
> I collected a lot of information some week ago because of industrial
> servers where the time sync was an unresolved problem.
> As the questions raised by Fred has overlaps with my research results,
> I give some answer with links. Hopefully lot of people can use it in
> the future.
>
> "The time server is quite close to the computer clock.  What causes
> the discrepancy?  The offset in the time server response is about 10
> min.  The offset is measured from what to what and how is it
> measured?"
>
> Once you synced the time and experience later huge offset, it means
> that one side of your synchronization doesn't keep the time properly
> or the synchronization doesn't work itself (you can make sure by
> running ntpq -p and verify the output. note: ntpd has to run!).
> Assume, that you choosed the proper time source for sync, so it means
> that the mechanism which steps your clock locally is broken. It can be
> battery reasons on the mainboard, temperature can also influence (but
> not too much nowadays), if you use virtual machine, that matters a
> lot, as it gets the CPU cycles from the host machine, and it's inner
> time stepping highly depends on the CPU time given by the host,
> finally I have never read anything about the effect of overclocking
> the CPU, it might have also effect on this, but test should be run to
> be sure.
>
> And a quotation about the offset calculation:
> "Synchronizing a client to a network server consists of several packet
> exchanges where each exchange is a pair of request and reply. When
> sending out a request, the client stores its own time (originate
> timestamp) into the packet being sent. When a server receives such a
> packet, it will in turn store its own time (receive timestamp) into
> the packet, and the packet will be returned after putting a transmit
> timestamp into the packet. When receiving the reply, the receiver will
> once more log its own receipt time to estimate the travelling time of
> the packet. The travelling time (delay) is estimated to be half of
> "the total delay minus remote processing time", assuming symmetrical
> delays.
>
> Those time differences can be used to estimate the time offset between
> both machines, as well as the dispersion (maximum offset error). The
> shorter and more symmetric the round-trip time, the more accurate the
> estimate of the current time.
>
> Time is not believed until several packet exchanges have taken place,
> each passing a set of sanity checks. Only if the replies from a server
> satisfy the conditions defined in the protocol specification, the
> server is considered valid. Time cannot be synchronized from a server
> that is considered invalid by the protocol. Some essential values are
> put into multi-stage filters for statistical purposes to improve and
> estimate the quality of the samples from each server. All used servers
> are evaluated for a consistent time. In case of disagreements, the
> largest set of agreeing servers (truechimers) is used to produce a
> combined reference time, thereby declaring other servers as invalid
> (falsetickers).
>
> Usually it takes about five minutes (five good samples) until a NTP
> server is accepted as synchronization source. Interestingly, this is
> also true for local reference clocks that have no delay at all by
> definition."
>
> Source: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-algo.htm
>
> And about ntpdate.
> Ntpdate, believe me, is a phantastic tool which helps you the fastest
> way in the most critical situations where there is no time to wait
> until everything gets better.
> We know, that some encryption algorithm depends very much on accurate
> time, so for example in a huge infrastructure where Apache webservers
> using TLS encryption, and the server also have Kerberos authentication
> enabled, and very important things the server is doing, there the
> communication can not be broken just because NTP was not able to step
> the clock enough fast.
>
> Ntpd has higher threshold to step the clock.
> "After some time, small offsets (significantly less than a second)
> will be slewed (adjusted slowly), while larger offsets will cause the
> clock to be stepped (set anew)."
> Source: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-algo.htm
>
> In contrast, ntpdate:
> "The default is to step the time using settimeofday() if the offset is
> greater than +-128 ms. "
> Source: http://doc.ntp.org/4.1.1/ntpdate.htm
>
> So in a situtation like that I never wait to ntpd to sync the time
> slowly. I use ntpdate, but it can be used only if ntpd or other sync
> programs doesn't use UDP123 port. So I stop ntpd and make an ntpdate
>  and the clock is stepped right after the
> syncronization.
>
> About chrony:
> chrony has more builtin mechanism to keep the time more 

Re: What time is it, really?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 07:46:46PM +0200, Fekete Tamás wrote:
> So in a situtation like that I never wait to ntpd to sync the time slowly.
> I use ntpdate, but it can be used only if ntpd or other sync programs
> doesn't use UDP123 port. So I stop ntpd and make an ntpdate  ntpserver> and the clock is stepped right after the syncronization.

ntpdate can set the clock BACKWARD as well as forward.  Setting the clock
backward can break all kinds of shit.  Jumping the clock forward by a
large amount can also break things, but it's not as bad as going backward.

If you find that your mission-critical server has lost its clock sync
for some reason, you're better off rebooting it.  Assuming, of course,
you have already fixed whatever caused ntpd to stop working in the first
place.

Because obviously you were running ntpd on it.  Right?  Right.

Rebooting lets ntpd's -g option peform an ntpdate-like clock jump once
again, and this will ideally happen BEFORE anything else that depends
on the clock is started.  So, if all is arranged correctly, by the
time your time-sensitive services come back up, the clock will already
be approximately correct, and it will be monotonically increasing as
it finishes converging toward precision.

Re: What time is it, really?

[Brian]

On Fri 10 Aug 2018 at 09:20:42 -0700, Fred wrote:

> On 08/10/2018 08:18 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 14:26:30 (-0700), Fred wrote:
> > > On 08/09/2018 12:42 PM, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 20:39:16 +0200, john doe wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On 8/9/2018 5:00 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 10:49:52AM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-08-09 at 10:35 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > > > > > Whoever suggested that is using outdated information.  Install 
> > > > > > > > ntp
> > > > > > > Why not openntpd?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > https://packages.debian.org/stretch/openntpd
> > > > > > Sure, whatever you prefer.  There are at least 4 viable 
> > > > > > alternatives:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > ntp
> > > > > > chrony
> > > > > > openntpd
> > > > > > systemd-timesyncd
> > > > > > 
> > > > > Systemd-timesyncd is only a client and using sntp.
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-timesyncd.service.html
> > > > Ideal for what the OP wants. Either that or chrony, if he would only
> > > > make his mind up.
> > > > 
> > > Well, what makes you think I haven't made my mind up?
> > (I wasn't the one seeming impatient, but) I was going to enquire at
> > some time about how you got along with chrony (which you wrote you'd
> > try next).
> > 
> > The discussion you referred to might have been the one in June last
> > year when I wrote that chrony did not do a lot for me. I installed
> > it naively, ie I didn't poke it with chronyc, and the system remained
> > five seconds slow. OTOH ntp corrected it immediately and stays
> > precisely correct all the time. (jessie at the time.)
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00450.html
> > In a follow-up, Brian had more success with chrony.
> > 
> > > Several years ago I built a "network clock" that receives WWVB time
> > > signals, has a clock display and an Ethernet interface so computers
> > > on the local network can ask for the time.  The hardware works and
> > > the software is able to decode the WWVB time code.  I am interested
> > > in finishing it now.  The computers on the network can use a Perl
> > > program to get the time.
> > Interesting. I played around with a Wireless World design in the
> > early 70's (TTL) where the "Rugby" time code (the slow one) was
> > decoded in hardware.
> > 
> > Currently we have a consumer radio clock which is a source of mystery
> > to me twice a year: the DST change occurs in the early evening on
> > Saturday instead of Sunday morning. In fact, it's about the time
> > that a UK clock would be changing if they moved on the same weekend
> > (which they typically don't). What does your home-built clock
> > reveal about the WWVB codes (assuming our clock is receiving the
> > same signal in KS)?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > David.
> > 
> > 
> Hi David,
> I haven't tried chrony as I have renewed interest in completing the "network

Five minutes work. As opposed to 

> clock" project I started some time ago.  There are far more interesting
> "home projects" than you can shake a stick at.  I ran ntpdate once as root
> and it did correct the time.

The vast majority of users would be content with systemd-timesyncd or
chrony. Both simple, easy and reliable enough to forget about any
time-keeping problems. But each to his own.

-- 
Brian.

Re: What time is it, really?

[Fekete Tamás]

Dear guys,

I think lot of answers flied through on the original questions and I didn't
see proper answers to them, so I would like to add my contribution to this
topic:
I collected a lot of information some week ago because of industrial
servers where the time sync was an unresolved problem.
As the questions raised by Fred has overlaps with my research results, I
give some answer with links. Hopefully lot of people can use it in the
future.

"The time server is quite close to the computer clock.  What causes the
discrepancy?  The offset in the time server response is about 10 min.  The
offset is measured from what to what and how is it measured?"

Once you synced the time and experience later huge offset, it means that
one side of your synchronization doesn't keep the time properly or the
synchronization doesn't work itself (you can make sure by running ntpq -p
and verify the output. note: ntpd has to run!). Assume, that you choosed
the proper time source for sync, so it means that the mechanism which steps
your clock locally is broken. It can be battery reasons on the mainboard,
temperature can also influence (but not too much nowadays), if you use
virtual machine, that matters a lot, as it gets the CPU cycles from the
host machine, and it's inner time stepping highly depends on the CPU time
given by the host, finally I have never read anything about the effect of
overclocking the CPU, it might have also effect on this, but test should be
run to be sure.

And a quotation about the offset calculation:
"Synchronizing a client to a network server consists of several packet
exchanges where each exchange is a pair of request and reply. When sending
out a request, the client stores its own time (originate timestamp) into
the packet being sent. When a server receives such a packet, it will in
turn store its own time (receive timestamp) into the packet, and the packet
will be returned after putting a transmit timestamp into the packet. When
receiving the reply, the receiver will once more log its own receipt time
to estimate the travelling time of the packet. The travelling time (delay)
is estimated to be half of "the total delay minus remote processing time",
assuming symmetrical delays.

Those time differences can be used to estimate the time offset between both
machines, as well as the dispersion (maximum offset error). The shorter and
more symmetric the round-trip time, the more accurate the estimate of the
current time.

Time is not believed until several packet exchanges have taken place, each
passing a set of sanity checks. Only if the replies from a server satisfy
the conditions defined in the protocol specification, the server is
considered valid. Time cannot be synchronized from a server that is
considered invalid by the protocol. Some essential values are put into
multi-stage filters for statistical purposes to improve and estimate the
quality of the samples from each server. All used servers are evaluated for
a consistent time. In case of disagreements, the largest set of agreeing
servers (truechimers) is used to produce a combined reference time, thereby
declaring other servers as invalid (falsetickers).

Usually it takes about five minutes (five good samples) until a NTP server
is accepted as synchronization source. Interestingly, this is also true for
local reference clocks that have no delay at all by definition."

Source: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-algo.htm

And about ntpdate.
Ntpdate, believe me, is a phantastic tool which helps you the fastest way
in the most critical situations where there is no time to wait until
everything gets better.
We know, that some encryption algorithm depends very much on accurate time,
so for example in a huge infrastructure where Apache webservers using TLS
encryption, and the server also have Kerberos authentication enabled, and
very important things the server is doing, there the communication can not
be broken just because NTP was not able to step the clock enough fast.

Ntpd has higher threshold to step the clock.
"After some time, small offsets (significantly less than a second) will be
slewed (adjusted slowly), while larger offsets will cause the clock to be
stepped (set anew)."
Source: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-algo.htm

In contrast, ntpdate:
"The default is to step the time using settimeofday() if the offset is
greater than +-128 ms. "
Source: http://doc.ntp.org/4.1.1/ntpdate.htm

So in a situtation like that I never wait to ntpd to sync the time slowly.
I use ntpdate, but it can be used only if ntpd or other sync programs
doesn't use UDP123 port. So I stop ntpd and make an ntpdate  and the clock is stepped right after the syncronization.

About chrony:
chrony has more builtin mechanism to keep the time more accurately on the
server even if it is disconnected from the network.
I think the future is for chrony.
Details (and sorry for the redhat link, but just because it is RedHat, it
is very correct information):

Re: Plasma 5 unusuable after latest buster "upgrade"

[Gary Dale]

On 2018-08-10 12:48 PM, Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer wrote:

Hi Gary!

According to your issues I can only think in an issue with your video
card. What do you have there?

Another thing to try is creating another user.
FWIW no one else has reported an issue like yours yet, or at least not
to my knowledge.
It would have to be a weird issue since the video seems to be working 
nicely most of the time.


Since rebooting sometimes makes previous desktops unusable, I was 
thinking perhaps a flaw in the ssd was corrupting some files and that it 
only became apparent after a reboot, but it passes the SMART tests and 
there is no other indication of a problem with it.


I created a new user and logged into Plasma. It seemed to work but I 
didn't spend a lot of time. Instead I rebooted and tried logging in 
again. This time it locked up.


I'm back running Gnome Flashback after rebooting earlier today to try 
Plasma again. It didn't work. Neither did Gnome. After failing to get 
back into XFCE, I also tried TWM for the first time. It failed to start. 
Gnome Flashback seems to be the only installed window manager I can access.

Re: which program/command can show wireless connection quality?

[deloptes]

Long Wind wrote:

>  it has nothing to do with police or other AP
> 
> i have a PCI wireless card, it works fine, i needn't monitor its
> performance with wavemon
> 
> the USB adapter works in the same environment as the PCI card, i really
> don't know cause of its problem
> 

if you run them in parallel (simultaneously) you will have the problem

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Shea Alterio]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:59 AM Jonathan Dowland  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 05:39:36PM +, tech wrote:
> >Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something
> >more modern like a bugzilla or else ???
>
> Assuming you are talking about systems for discussion, rather than
> filing bugs: Debian has  and has had for a
> long time, but it gets relatively little use.
>
> Personally I'd love to see the list archive software get an overhaul,
> and mailman3's "HyperKitty" archiver looks very promising to me, but I'm
> not sure whether it has delivered on the promise, which was to offer a
> very forum-like interface to mailing lists, permitting people to reply
> via web, or click "+1" buttons (thus freeing the mail interface of lots
> of "+1" mails, a blight that debian-user fortunately doesn't suffer)
>
>
> I've set up mailman3 servers and messed with the code quite a bit. It's a
huge step up from mailman v2, and not just cause the web interface is a
whole lot slicker.

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[deloptes]

Piotr wrote:

> The best was NNTP, but sadly there are not many places where it is still
> used. Web and e-mail approach is for more "handicaped" users, and as the
> exampes shows, there are many of them. Otherwise the trend would be to
> stick to NNTP and not to move to no powerfull solutions.

If someone wants to put his/her news system on non NNTP base it is his/her
own free will.
I guess there are enough people who understand the difference and major user
groups are hosted on nntp - somehow supply and demand question. May be at
some point of time it will be replaced by something else, but I don't see
it coming

regards

Re: What time is it, really?

[Fred]

On 08/10/2018 08:18 AM, David Wright wrote:

On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 14:26:30 (-0700), Fred wrote:

On 08/09/2018 12:42 PM, Brian wrote:

On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 20:39:16 +0200, john doe wrote:


On 8/9/2018 5:00 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 10:49:52AM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:

On Thu, 2018-08-09 at 10:35 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

Whoever suggested that is using outdated information.  Install ntp

Why not openntpd?

https://packages.debian.org/stretch/openntpd

Sure, whatever you prefer.  There are at least 4 viable alternatives:

ntp
chrony
openntpd
systemd-timesyncd


Systemd-timesyncd is only a client and using sntp.

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-timesyncd.service.html

Ideal for what the OP wants. Either that or chrony, if he would only
make his mind up.


Well, what makes you think I haven't made my mind up?

(I wasn't the one seeming impatient, but) I was going to enquire at
some time about how you got along with chrony (which you wrote you'd
try next).

The discussion you referred to might have been the one in June last
year when I wrote that chrony did not do a lot for me. I installed
it naively, ie I didn't poke it with chronyc, and the system remained
five seconds slow. OTOH ntp corrected it immediately and stays
precisely correct all the time. (jessie at the time.)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00450.html
In a follow-up, Brian had more success with chrony.


Several years ago I built a "network clock" that receives WWVB time
signals, has a clock display and an Ethernet interface so computers
on the local network can ask for the time.  The hardware works and
the software is able to decode the WWVB time code.  I am interested
in finishing it now.  The computers on the network can use a Perl
program to get the time.

Interesting. I played around with a Wireless World design in the
early 70's (TTL) where the "Rugby" time code (the slow one) was
decoded in hardware.

Currently we have a consumer radio clock which is a source of mystery
to me twice a year: the DST change occurs in the early evening on
Saturday instead of Sunday morning. In fact, it's about the time
that a UK clock would be changing if they moved on the same weekend
(which they typically don't). What does your home-built clock
reveal about the WWVB codes (assuming our clock is receiving the
same signal in KS)?

Cheers,
David.



Hi David,
I haven't tried chrony as I have renewed interest in completing the 
"network clock" project I started some time ago.  There are far more 
interesting "home projects" than you can shake a stick at.  I ran 
ntpdate once as root and it did correct the time.


WWVB supposedly covers the continental US. but I am sure there are areas 
that don't get useful signal strength.  The software for my clock is to 
the point of changing the signal time intervals into bits so the next 
step is doing something with the bits.

Best regards,
Fred

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[cyaiplexys]

On 08/10/2018 08:58 AM, The Wanderer wrote:

On 2018-08-10 at 08:29, Rich Kulawiec wrote:


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:46:12AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:


Not familiar with procmail.  A quick perusal of the manpage seems
to indicate this is a local mail "processor" for sorting things, as
opposed to say something on the mailserver itself?


Correct.  Procmail uses a set of rules to decide what to go with messages
presented to it; those rules are usually based on the contents of message
headers, but don't have to be.  For example, for this mailing list:

:0:
 * ^X-Mailing-List:.*
 /home/rsk/linux/debian-user

Translating, this means that any message which has the specified header
will be appended to the file named in the last line.  (It would be nice
if the debian lists complied with RFC 2919 by using List-Id, but at least
this header works and is consistent throughout.)


Hm? The Debian mailing lists I'm on *do* have List-Id; that's how I
filter them into folders on my end, although I do it via Thunderbird's
built-in filtering mechanism rather than via procmail.


I use Thunderbird as well. Only I have set up a separate email account 
special for getting mail list messages, ads, etc. What I do then is set 
that account up to use collapsable threads. I delete all threads I don't 
think I'd be interested in and then keep the threads I think I want to 
read. I'm only on a couple Debian lists though (Security announcements 
being one, and this one and I think News). This Users one has the most 
activity but it really isn't too much trouble for me.


I also set up my email check to once every 720 minutes (12 hours). This 
way I'm not getting popups every 10 minutes that there's new messages 
while I'm trying to work or watch a tutorial video full screen or something.

Re: What time is it, really?

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:18:19AM -0500, David Wright wrote:

Currently we have a consumer radio clock which is a source of mystery
to me twice a year: the DST change occurs in the early evening on
Saturday instead of Sunday morning.


The clock isn't properly decoding the DST bits. See 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB


The DST status bits indicate United States daylight saving time rules. 
The bits are updated daily during the minute starting at 00:00 UTC. 
The first DST bit, transmitted at 57 seconds past the minute, changes 
at the beginning of the UTC day that DST comes into effect or ends. 
The other DST bit, at second 58, changes 24 hours later (after the DST 
change). Therefore, if the DST bits differ, DST is changing at 02:00 
local time during the current UTC day. Before the next 02:00 local 
time after that, the bits will be the same.


Each change in the DST bits will first be received in the mainland 
United States between 16:00 (PST) and 20:00 (EDT), depending on the 
local time zone and on whether DST is about to begin or end. A receiver 
in the Eastern time zone (UTC−5) must therefore correctly receive the 
"DST is changing" indication within a seven-hour period before DST 
begins, and six hours before DST ends, if it is to change the local time 
display at the correct time. Receivers in the Central, Mountain, and 
Pacific time zones have one, two, and three more hours of advance 
notice, respectively. 


Your clock is probably only looking at the first bit, and skipping the 
logic for when to actually apply the change. A lot of the functionality 
in the time code actually allows for relatively graceful degradation 
like this to facilitate simpler or more complex receivers.


Mike Stone

Re: What time is it, really?

[David Wright]

On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 14:26:30 (-0700), Fred wrote:
> On 08/09/2018 12:42 PM, Brian wrote:
> >On Thu 09 Aug 2018 at 20:39:16 +0200, john doe wrote:
> >
> >>On 8/9/2018 5:00 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >>>On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 10:49:52AM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-08-09 at 10:35 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >Whoever suggested that is using outdated information.  Install ntp
> 
> Why not openntpd?
> 
> https://packages.debian.org/stretch/openntpd
> >>>Sure, whatever you prefer.  There are at least 4 viable alternatives:
> >>>
> >>>ntp
> >>>chrony
> >>>openntpd
> >>>systemd-timesyncd
> >>>
> >>Systemd-timesyncd is only a client and using sntp.
> >>
> >>https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-timesyncd.service.html
> >Ideal for what the OP wants. Either that or chrony, if he would only
> >make his mind up.
> >
> Well, what makes you think I haven't made my mind up?

(I wasn't the one seeming impatient, but) I was going to enquire at
some time about how you got along with chrony (which you wrote you'd
try next).

The discussion you referred to might have been the one in June last
year when I wrote that chrony did not do a lot for me. I installed
it naively, ie I didn't poke it with chronyc, and the system remained
five seconds slow. OTOH ntp corrected it immediately and stays
precisely correct all the time. (jessie at the time.)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00450.html
In a follow-up, Brian had more success with chrony.

> Several years ago I built a "network clock" that receives WWVB time
> signals, has a clock display and an Ethernet interface so computers
> on the local network can ask for the time.  The hardware works and
> the software is able to decode the WWVB time code.  I am interested
> in finishing it now.  The computers on the network can use a Perl
> program to get the time.

Interesting. I played around with a Wireless World design in the
early 70's (TTL) where the "Rugby" time code (the slow one) was
decoded in hardware.

Currently we have a consumer radio clock which is a source of mystery
to me twice a year: the DST change occurs in the early evening on
Saturday instead of Sunday morning. In fact, it's about the time
that a UK clock would be changing if they moved on the same weekend
(which they typically don't). What does your home-built clock
reveal about the WWVB codes (assuming our clock is receiving the
same signal in KS)?

Cheers,
David.

Fwd: à propos de libreoffice

[Bernard Schoenacker]

bonjour,
 
libreoffice laisse tomber hsql au profit de firebird
pour des raisons liées à java ...
 
pour cela il faut activer les fonctions avancées
de la base de données
 
voici la nouvelle en détail :
 

http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/The-Document-Foundation-announces-LibreOffice-6-1-a-major-release-which-shows-the-power-of-a-large-as-td4245845.html

 
merci
 
slt
bernard

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Ritter]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 07:55:00AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:29:34AM -0400, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> > Correct.  Procmail uses a set of rules to decide what to go with messages
> > presented to it; those rules are usually based on the contents of message
> > headers, but don't have to be.  For example, for this mailing list:
> > 
> > :0:
> > * ^X-Mailing-List:.*
> > /home/rsk/linux/debian-user
> > 
> > Translating, this means that any message which has the specified header
> > will be appended to the file named in the last line.
> 
> I used to use procmail a couple decades ago, then I switched to Debian,
> and Debian installed exim by default, and I started using exim to sort
> my mail instead.  My corresponding rule is:
> 
> if $h_X-Mailing-List: contains "debian-" then
>   save $home/Mail/deb/
>   finish
> endif

And maildrop says:

if (/^X-Mailing-List:.*debian-/:h)
to $home/Mail/deb/

although I would recommend sorting each Debian list to a
different folder. 

-dsr-

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Ritter]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:33:39AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> Dan Ritter wrote:
> > 3. Indexed mail searching. Whatever works with your preferred
> > mail client. Have cron run a re-index every morning before you
> > wake up.
> 
> Care to expand on this one a bit? Not entirely sure what you mean here,
> and it's intriguing.

Full-text searching of all your mail folders is a reasonable
thing to ask your mail server and/or client to do.

notmuch, maildir-utils, mairix, nmzmail are all Debian packaged
utilities that will look through all your mail and construct an
index so that when you ask for things like:

I want the mail from people who have "Dan" in their email
addresses and had a subject with "GNU"

it can compile that list for your mail client in a second or
three, instead of reading through all your mail when you make
the query and thus taking several minutes or hours.

Each package is a little different: some want to add new
messages to an index on arrival, others want to roll through
all your mail archives each time you re-index. 

If you're a mutt user, you should also be using the amazing
power of limits to do things like "show me mail in this folder
that arrived yesterday and I replied to it" or "show me mail
in this folder that is not from my company's domain".

-dsr-

Re: debian-user over NNTP: linux.debian.user (was mailing list vs "the futur")

[Dan Purgert]

Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙) wrote:
> Dan Purgert  writes:
>> Yeah, well, least it's on eternal-september (my NNTP provider). I doubt
>> they're the most active, but the service is free, and good enough for my
>> tastes.
>
> Also i like NNTP service! For now i'm on Gmane, thanks^^^

Now that you meantion it, I might've needed to go through gmane for the
debian lists.


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: debian-user over NNTP: linux.debian.user (was mailing list vs "the futur")

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

Dan Purgert  writes:

> Thomas Schmitt wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I really really want to abstain from that thread. So a new one:
>>
>> Gene Heskett wrotei in 'mailing list vs "the futur"':
>>> [...] NNTP [...]
>>> To fully support it needs 2000 times the bandwidth of an email server.
>>
>> But not because of the transport protocoli or message format. NNTP belongs
>> to the same breed of reasonably concise protocols as the mail protocols
>> POP3 and SMTP. The message formats too are very similar: A list of header
>> lines and a message body.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>   linux.debian.user
>>
>> which should be on most news servers (because it is of modest size).
>
> Yeah, well, least it's on eternal-september (my NNTP provider). I doubt
> they're the most active, but the service is free, and good enough for my
> tastes.

Also i like NNTP service! For now i'm on Gmane, thanks^^^

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:29:34AM -0400, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

Correct.  Procmail uses a set of rules to decide what to go with messages
presented to it; those rules are usually based on the contents of message
headers, but don't have to be.  For example, for this mailing list:

:0:
   * ^X-Mailing-List:.*
   /home/rsk/linux/debian-user

Translating, this means that any message which has the specified header
will be appended to the file named in the last line.  (It would be nice
if the debian lists complied with RFC 2919 by using List-Id, but at least
this header works and is consistent throughout.)


Debian lists have had List-Id for years. This is classic procmail rule 
bitrot. :)


The equivalent maildrop syntax is:

 if (/^List-Id: /)
   to linux/debian-user

It's hard to argue that the procmail version is less error-prone or more 
readable. Especially when you get to things like


 :0 Whc: $HOME/msgid.lock
 | formail -D 8192 $HOME/msgid.cache

 :0 a
 .duplicate/

versus

 `reformail -D 8192 msgid.cache`
 if ( $RETURNCODE == 0 )
   to Maildir/.duplicate

Very few people can read and understand the procmail version without 
looking up what the 'W', 'h', 'c', and 'a' mean, and why there's 
sometimes two ':' and sometimes one. It was a great program back in the 
day, but that day was back when we were still writing sendmail.cf by 
hand and the procmail syntax was comparatively easy to read. If you're 
starting from scratch, this is not the place to start.


Mike Stone

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Purgert]

Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:46:12AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> Not familiar with procmail.  A quick perusal of the manpage seems to
>> indicate this is a local mail "processor" for sorting things, as opposed
>> to say something on the mailserver itself?
>
> Correct.  Procmail uses a set of rules to decide what to go with messages
> presented to it; those rules are usually based on the contents of message
> headers, but don't have to be.  [...]
>

Thanks for the explanation.  At some point I may have to look into it in
more detail -- although since I run my MTA (well, at least for the mail
that matters) that does sorting serverside, might not do me any good.

-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 08:29:34 -0400
Rich Kulawiec  wrote:

Hello Rich,

>will be appended to the file named in the last line.  (It would be nice
>if the debian lists complied with RFC 2919 by using List-Id, but at
>least

All the Debian lists I'm subbed to have a List-Id header.  Maybe they
didn't in the past, IDK

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Gary don't need his eyes to see, Gary and his eyes have parted company
Gary Gilmore's Eyes - The Adverts


pgpBJ0jtrWweU.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Purgert]

Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 10 August 2018 07:24:18 zaxonxp wrote:
>> [...]
>> NNTP was a way to go. Sadly not many portals supports it promoting
>> only web access or mail list. Personally I do not like to polute my
>> mailbox with a tons of e-mails and clean them up later on. NNTP client
>> does this when I want it and you can configure it the way you want it.
>> What else would you need for a news groups?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Piotr
>
> And NNTP will never get there. Why? Its the most bandwidth hungry thing 
> in an ISP's closet of tools. To fully support it needs 2000 times the 
> bandwidth of an email server.  

Maybe eternal-september is simply an extremely quiet news server, but
the stats page shows they've been transferring at just under 100kbps
(max) over the past month (avg 55kbps).


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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Re: debian-user over NNTP: linux.debian.user (was mailing list vs "the futur")

[Dan Purgert]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I really really want to abstain from that thread. So a new one:
>
> Gene Heskett wrotei in 'mailing list vs "the futur"':
>> [...] NNTP [...]
>> To fully support it needs 2000 times the bandwidth of an email server.
>
> But not because of the transport protocoli or message format. NNTP belongs
> to the same breed of reasonably concise protocols as the mail protocols
> POP3 and SMTP. The message formats too are very similar: A list of header
> lines and a message body.
>
> [...]
>
>   linux.debian.user
>
> which should be on most news servers (because it is of modest size).

Yeah, well, least it's on eternal-september (my NNTP provider). I doubt
they're the most active, but the service is free, and good enough for my
tastes.


-- 
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|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Purgert]

Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 10.08.18 11:46, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> Rich Kulawiec wrote:
>> To expand on that with my own personal prejudice -- the people using
>> these "sub-par" tools are also the ones who're the cause of some of the
>> existent (modern?) problems with mailing lists.
>> 
>> Namely:
>> 
>>  - HTML Messages
>>  - Not wrapping messages at ~80 characters
>>  - top posting
>> 
>
> It is easy to delete posts so egregiously presented that reading them is
> too much trouble. (When I return from a week out in the country, every
> month, there's usually over 1200 emails waiting - down to half that after
> procmail has done some weeding. So a post should also chop out all
> quoted text not explicitly related to the reply, if it is to be read in
> the time which can be given to it.)

Yeah, and if we all do that, the people who don't know any better don't
get any help. :)

Not that I don't delete (or otherwise outright ignore) the exceptionally
bad mails.

>> Guess I'm not a "serious" email user then.  Half the time I'm still
>> using Tbird.
>
> Having moved to mutt between 15 & 20 years ago, I've found it powerful
> and highly configurable. It'll see me out.

I have it for my "main" email account - but still use tbird for
alternate accounts.  It's just "easier" to see all the mail there.  That
being said, I have taken steps to make tbird behave properly.

>> Not familiar with procmail.  A quick perusal of the manpage seems to
>> indicate this is a local mail "processor" for sorting things, as opposed
>> to say something on the mailserver itself?
>
> Yup. Details on how to direct its filtering/distribution are in the
> procmailrc manpage. Its development stabilised some time ago, and those
> of us who use it are very content with that.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, it'd end up doing the same
thing as sieve is already doing on the mailserver (or perhaps a
secondary pass for things sieve missed).


-- 
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Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[The Wanderer]

On 2018-08-10 at 08:29, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:46:12AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> 
>> Not familiar with procmail.  A quick perusal of the manpage seems
>> to indicate this is a local mail "processor" for sorting things, as
>> opposed to say something on the mailserver itself?
> 
> Correct.  Procmail uses a set of rules to decide what to go with messages
> presented to it; those rules are usually based on the contents of message
> headers, but don't have to be.  For example, for this mailing list:
> 
>   :0:
> * ^X-Mailing-List:.*
> /home/rsk/linux/debian-user
> 
> Translating, this means that any message which has the specified header
> will be appended to the file named in the last line.  (It would be nice
> if the debian lists complied with RFC 2919 by using List-Id, but at least
> this header works and is consistent throughout.)

Hm? The Debian mailing lists I'm on *do* have List-Id; that's how I
filter them into folders on my end, although I do it via Thunderbird's
built-in filtering mechanism rather than via procmail.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:29:53PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:

Yup. Details on how to direct its filtering/distribution are in the
procmailrc manpage. Its development stabilised some time ago, and those
of us who use it are very content with that.


I would not recommend procmail for new deployments. Its configuration 
syntax is obscure, it's no longer maintained, and there are better 
options available. maildrop is a good choice, with a very simple 
filtering syntax. sieve is another option that's a bit more complex but 
capable of being managed via a gui in a mail client.


Mike Stone

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dave Sherohman]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:29:34AM -0400, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> Correct.  Procmail uses a set of rules to decide what to go with messages
> presented to it; those rules are usually based on the contents of message
> headers, but don't have to be.  For example, for this mailing list:
> 
>   :0:
> * ^X-Mailing-List:.*
> /home/rsk/linux/debian-user
> 
> Translating, this means that any message which has the specified header
> will be appended to the file named in the last line.

I used to use procmail a couple decades ago, then I switched to Debian,
and Debian installed exim by default, and I started using exim to sort
my mail instead.  My corresponding rule is:

if $h_X-Mailing-List: contains "debian-" then
  save $home/Mail/deb/
  finish
endif

No translation required.  (And I prefer a single mailbox for all my
debian lists, which is why I just match on "debian-" instead of the full
name/address of the list.)

-- 
Dave Sherohman

debian-user over NNTP: linux.debian.user (was mailing list vs "the futur")

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

I really really want to abstain from that thread. So a new one:

Gene Heskett wrotei in 'mailing list vs "the futur"':
> [...] NNTP [...]
> To fully support it needs 2000 times the bandwidth of an email server.

But not because of the transport protocoli or message format. NNTP belongs
to the same breed of reasonably concise protocols as the mail protocols
POP3 and SMTP. The message formats too are very similar: A list of header
lines and a message body.

Of course, if it is about newsgroups with videos or many large pictures,
you get clients sucking data for hours. But a news server which imposes
the same restrictions as most mailing list servers would not cause
more traffic or storage need.

While googling for debian-user as newsgroup i found
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/10/msg00735.html
where Miles Fidelman points to
  nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user
i.e. newsgroup

  linux.debian.user

which should be on most news servers (because it is of modest size).
Newest message on the server which i can use:

  638790   
 from   : Gene Heskett 
 date   : Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:10:01 +0200
 size   : 2724 bytes in 60 lines
 subject: Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

My mail box seems to be about half an hour ahead of the news server.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Rich Kulawiec]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:46:12AM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
> Not familiar with procmail.  A quick perusal of the manpage seems to
> indicate this is a local mail "processor" for sorting things, as opposed
> to say something on the mailserver itself?

Correct.  Procmail uses a set of rules to decide what to go with messages
presented to it; those rules are usually based on the contents of message
headers, but don't have to be.  For example, for this mailing list:

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:.*
/home/rsk/linux/debian-user

Translating, this means that any message which has the specified header
will be appended to the file named in the last line.  (It would be nice
if the debian lists complied with RFC 2919 by using List-Id, but at least
this header works and is consistent throughout.)  The small regexp in
there is present because the functional part of the header is the text
in angle brackets; any text preceding it is for human consumption,
and may change (or not be present at all).

A typical usage pattern for procmail might be something like this:

mail server -> fetchmail -> procmail -> mail client

In other words, a program like fetchmail is used to retrieve mail
(via POP or IMAP) from a mail server.  Fetchmail hands off each message
to procmail.  Procmail decides what to do with each message, which usually
means filing it. [1]  The user can then read each mailing list by pointing
their mail client at it.  This also accumulates a per-mailing list
archive (in mbox format), which is useful.

This is a highly scalable, very robust setup for anyone who has to
deal with lots of mailing lists or with correspondence involving diverse
groups of people.  It scales to thousands of rules (I have 3000+ as
of this morning), it executes quickly, and because procmail is careful
to Do The Right Thing even under adverse circumstances, it's rather
tolerant of configuration errors.  Happily, most mailing lists now
support RFC 2919 (or at least something functionally equivalent,
as we see here) so it's not often necessary to craft procmail rules
based on other headers.

---rsk

[1] Although it could also mean forwarding it, duplicating it, discarding
it, etc.  For example, there exists a mailing list called "outages", which
is used to announce and track outages of networks and other operations
of interest.  If you're subscribed to outages and have a particular
interest in certain ASNs or operations, you can easily craft a procmail
ruleset specific to those that (a) files a copy of the message as above
and (b) upon a relevant Subject-line match, submits a duplicate copy of
the message to an internal ticketing system so that it becomes visible
to operations staff, and so that it can be tracked in the same way as
other trouble reports.

Re: which program/command can show wireless connection quality?

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 8/10/18, Reco  wrote:
>   Hi.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:16:38AM +, Long Wind wrote:
>>  Thanks!
>>
>> my adapter is Asus WL-167g USB WLAN Adapter
>> i don't understand why change directional from omni to uni
>
> Because if it's the noise/signal ratio that's the trouble this should
> improve it.
>
>> the adapter is problematic, sometimes it works fine, other times it
>> doesn't though link quality is good
>
> Or, it's your neighbour's APs which give you signal interference. Or a
> nearby police car (radar).


This surely falls under the signal noise category, but it might not be
something people ever think about. It's power lines. My yard is
wrapped in utility lines k/t how it sits in the Universe. Both MATS
(local transport, Mountain Area Transportation System) and local
Pickens County Sheriff's Office during 9-1-1 emergency calls are NOT
able to call out *at all* when they're sitting in my driveway.

Seems natural to a-sume those two community resources have
communications systems powerful enough to worm through anything, but
apparently... nope. At least not when it comes to sitting underneath a
tight nest of power lines. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Erik Christiansen]

On 10.08.18 11:46, Dan Purgert wrote:
> Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> To expand on that with my own personal prejudice -- the people using
> these "sub-par" tools are also the ones who're the cause of some of the
> existent (modern?) problems with mailing lists.
> 
> Namely:
> 
>  - HTML Messages
>  - Not wrapping messages at ~80 characters
>  - top posting
> 

It is easy to delete posts so egregiously presented that reading them is
too much trouble. (When I return from a week out in the country, every
month, there's usually over 1200 emails waiting - down to half that after
procmail has done some weeding. So a post should also chop out all
quoted text not explicitly related to the reply, if it is to be read in
the time which can be given to it.)

> >
> > Serious email users should be using mutt, which is fast, compact,
> > resistant to attack, and has an astonishing number of features.
> 
> Guess I'm not a "serious" email user then.  Half the time I'm still
> using Tbird.

Having moved to mutt between 15 & 20 years ago, I've found it powerful
and highly configurable. It'll see me out.

> > Those who receive large volumes of mail should be using procmail
> > to pre-sort it, and they should be aware of RFC 2919 (and thus
> > the existence of List-Id) as an excellent means for doing so.
> > These two tools in combination make dealing with large amounts
> > of traffic to large numbers of mailing lists quite easy.

And then with the list mailboxes arranged in order of interest in
"mailboxes" line(s) in ~/.muttrc, they are presented in priority order.
If domestic management, kids, or walking the dog intrude, then it's
automatically the less important emails which must wait for another day.

> Not familiar with procmail.  A quick perusal of the manpage seems to
> indicate this is a local mail "processor" for sorting things, as opposed
> to say something on the mailserver itself?

Yup. Details on how to direct its filtering/distribution are in the
procmailrc manpage. Its development stabilised some time ago, and those
of us who use it are very content with that.

Erik

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 10 August 2018 07:24:18 zaxonxp wrote:

> 
> rH8U]On)GIf;w1ZqdMj$nbYY
>.Ix8o\C &
>
> 
> auM`4jC,sl5vR&@dR!_,^'*^6+Udo[>g^ruiad#l{:lJ?{VKGRV_nM~oBgfJm"TpFZ
>=!t0yw! $
>  UN
> References: 
> User-Agent: Pan/0.141 (Tarzan's Death; 168b179 git.gnome.org/pan2)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 19:40:02 +0200, tech wrote:
> > The way most people keep up to date on network news is through
> > subscription to a number of mail reflectors (also known as mail
> > exploders). Mail reflectors are special electronic mailboxes which,
> > when they receive a message, resend it to a list of other mailboxes.
> > This in effect creates a discussion group on a particular topic.
> > - E. Krol; The Hitchhikers Guide to the Internet; RFC 1118; Sept.
> > 1989.
> >
> >
> > Seem's the first "bitnic listserv" is dated from 1984 ! More than 34
> > years ago !
> >
> >
> > Just as a reminder, we are now in 2018 ... something called the XXI
> > century ... with 4G, optical FTTH connection, smartphones ...
> >
> >
> > Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something
> > more modern like a bugzilla or else ???
>
> NNTP was a way to go. Sadly not many portals supports it promoting
> only web access or mail list. Personally I do not like to polute my
> mailbox with a tons of e-mails and clean them up later on. NNTP client
> does this when I want it and you can configure it the way you want it.
> What else would you need for a news groups?
>
> Regards,
> Piotr

And NNTP will never get there. Why? Its the most bandwidth hungry thing 
in an ISP's closet of tools. To fully support it needs 2000 times the 
bandwidth of an email server.  And bandwidth like that to the backbone 
can bankrupt the ISP. Even web access to a forum wastes 90% of the 
bandwidth it uses with html crap you can't read. TANSTAAFL. 


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Curt]

On 2018-08-10, Rich Kulawiec  wrote:
>
> Serious email users should be using mutt, which is fast, compact,
>

...

> Furthermore, everyone using mailing lists should be maintaining

...

> maintained by the site running the mailing list.  in turn, everyone
> running a mailing list should take care to see that those archives
> are fully accessible, unredacted, and downloadable on demand.)
>

...

Should should should. And furthermore, too. Crikey! Have any toothpaste
recommendations for serious carnivores? I feel like ripping something
apart with my teeth.

-- 
You are an ugly little monster, you know, I shouted in my mind’s
loudest voice – so loud it made my heart reverberate. 
Haruki Murakami, “The Little Green Monster”

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Purgert]

Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 06:24:55AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
>> I get more mail than that before breakfast. If you've got the
>> right tools, it's easy to deal with.
>
> This is an excellent point.  Many of the people who lodge complaints
> like the one that started this discussion thread have chosen very poor
> tools and thus have conflated the failings of those tools with some
> non-existent inherent problems with mailing lists.

To expand on that with my own personal prejudice -- the people using
these "sub-par" tools are also the ones who're the cause of some of the
existent (modern?) problems with mailing lists.

Namely:

 - HTML Messages
 - Not wrapping messages at ~80 characters
 - top posting


>
> Serious email users should be using mutt, which is fast, compact,
> resistant to attack, and has an astonishing number of features.

Guess I'm not a "serious" email user then.  Half the time I'm still
using Tbird.

> Those who receive large volumes of mail should be using procmail
> to pre-sort it, and they should be aware of RFC 2919 (and thus
> the existence of List-Id) as an excellent means for doing so.
> These two tools in combination make dealing with large amounts
> of traffic to large numbers of mailing lists quite easy.

Not familiar with procmail.  A quick perusal of the manpage seems to
indicate this is a local mail "processor" for sorting things, as opposed
to say something on the mailserver itself?


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[zaxonxp]

 rH8U]On)GIf;w1ZqdMj$nbYY.Ix8o\C
&

 auM`4jC,sl5vR&@dR!_,^'*^6+Udo[>g^ruiad#l{:lJ?{VKGRV_nM~oBgfJm"TpFZ=!t0yw!
$
 UN
References:  
 

User-Agent: Pan/0.141 (Tarzan's Death; 168b179 git.gnome.org/pan2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:30:01 +0200, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 06:24:55AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
>> I get more mail than that before breakfast. If you've got the right
>> tools, it's easy to deal with.
> 
> This is an excellent point.  Many of the people who lodge complaints
> like the one that started this discussion thread have chosen very poor
> tools and thus have conflated the failings of those tools with some
> non-existent inherent problems with mailing lists.

The best was NNTP, but sadly there are not many places where it is still 
used. Web and e-mail approach is for more "handicaped" users, and as the 
exampes shows, there are many of them. Otherwise the trend would be to 
stick to NNTP and not to move to no powerfull solutions.

Regards,
Piotr

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[zaxonxp]

 rH8U]On)GIf;w1ZqdMj$nbYY.Ix8o\C
&

 auM`4jC,sl5vR&@dR!_,^'*^6+Udo[>g^ruiad#l{:lJ?{VKGRV_nM~oBgfJm"TpFZ=!t0yw!
$
 UN
References: 
User-Agent: Pan/0.141 (Tarzan's Death; 168b179 git.gnome.org/pan2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 19:40:02 +0200, tech wrote:

> The way most people keep up to date on network news is through
> subscription to a number of mail reflectors (also known as mail
> exploders). Mail reflectors are special electronic mailboxes which, when
> they receive a message, resend it to a list of other mailboxes. This in
> effect creates a discussion group on a particular topic.
> - E. Krol; The Hitchhikers Guide to the Internet; RFC 1118; Sept. 1989.
> 
> 
> Seem's the first "bitnic listserv" is dated from 1984 ! More than 34
> years ago !
> 
> 
> Just as a reminder, we are now in 2018 ... something called the XXI
> century ... with 4G, optical FTTH connection, smartphones ...
> 
> 
> Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something
> more modern like a bugzilla or else ???

NNTP was a way to go. Sadly not many portals supports it promoting only 
web access or mail list. Personally I do not like to polute my mailbox 
with a tons of e-mails and clean them up later on. NNTP client does this 
when I want it and you can configure it the way you want it. What else 
would you need for a news groups?

Regards,
Piotr

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 10 August 2018 05:54:22 Anders Andersson wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Thursday 09 August 2018 12:26:24 Martin wrote:
> >> Am 09.08.2018 um 18:15 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> >> > On Thursday 09 August 2018 11:16:27 Martin wrote:
> >> >> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
> >> >
> >> > Then I suggest you reread man ntp.conf, and /etc/ntp.conf, and
> >> > edit it as root until you do understand it. Note that changes to
> >> > take effect, need a root session of "service ntp restart".
> >>
> >> Wrong topic, may be?
> >> I used to use ntpd. Then tried systemd-timesyncd to act a a server.
> >> Which it will not do. Hence, I run ntpd.
> >
> > Wrong topic? Note that nowhere in that portion of my msg you
> > snipped, was systemd.timesyncd mentioned. It may have been in some
> > other part of that message that I didn't author, and which you also
> > snipped.
> > You might want to let some of the stuffing out of that shirt. I was
> > trying to be helpfull because the docs do suck a bit.  And helpfull
> > people are harder and harder to find because of folks with an
> > attitude
>
> You're the one with the attitude here. Martin claimed that the
> documentation for systemd-timesyncd sucked, and that it can not serve
> time to a local network. You then go on to lecture him about reading
> the documentation for NTP, "until you understand it", something he
> obviously already does since he is already using it. After he
> clarified the context, Instead of apologizing you reply with an attack
> about his stuffed shirt.

Maybe stuffed shirt was over-reaction, but from what was written, I got 
the impression that Martin did not understand ntp all that well. If he 
does in fact understand its theory, then my apologies.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Piotr]

[This mail was also posted to linux.debian.user.]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:30:01 +0200, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 06:24:55AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
>> I get more mail than that before breakfast. If you've got the right
>> tools, it's easy to deal with.
> 
> This is an excellent point.  Many of the people who lodge complaints
> like the one that started this discussion thread have chosen very poor
> tools and thus have conflated the failings of those tools with some
> non-existent inherent problems with mailing lists.

The best was NNTP, but sadly there are not many places where it is still 
used. Web and e-mail approach is for more "handicaped" users, and as the 
exampes shows, there are many of them. Otherwise the trend would be to 
stick to NNTP and not to move to no powerfull solutions.

Regards,
Piotr

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Purgert]

Dan Ritter wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 06:05:41PM +, tech wrote:
>> [...]
>> Since augusth 1st:
>> 
>> I received around 12 familly mails, 62 pro-mails, 147
>> spam/pishing/bullshit mails.
>>
>> Between all the debian mails list who exist, i receives  also 168
>> emails.
>> 
>> I have maybee read 20 of them, and deleted all the others...
>
>
> I get more mail than that before breakfast. If you've got the
> right tools, it's easy to deal with.
>
> 1. Spam filter. Spamassassin is good. If you can add greylisting
> to your mail server, you should try that, too.

Both are amazing, as are some of the less intensive checks before asking
the more computationally expensive tools.

>
> 2. Automatic mail folders. The only mail that ends up in your
> inbox should be mail that your ruleset is not certain about.
> Each mailing list should get its own folder. Maildrop is easy
> to learn.

I use sieve(?) scripts.  Took maybe 10 minutes to learn the syntax
enough to get the auto redirects working.  

Although, I use my inbox somewhat more heavily than "just for things the
rules don't know", since navigating the directories via phone is more
painful than "I really didn't need to see that one".

>
> 3. Indexed mail searching. Whatever works with your preferred
> mail client. Have cron run a re-index every morning before you
> wake up.

Care to expand on this one a bit? Not entirely sure what you mean here,
and it's intriguing.

>
> 4. Mail threading in your mail client. If it doesn't do threads
> properly, time to change clients. I like mutt.

Mutt is quite nice, though I connect to the linux.debian.* MLs via
Usenet ... really ought to dig out that howto and stash it in my "don't
lose these things" directory.


>> I have sent the following emails, received zero anwsers. With a
>> "modern" system like a bugzilla/forum/tracker/else and their moder
>> options, i can know how many peoples have read it ( 23 answer for
>> 9876 readsfor example ) ... with the mailings list, how many people
>> took relly the time to read it ( as i direct-delete most of he amils
>> i receive ) ...
>
> Who cares who read your mail? Only the answers are important.

^ This.  Also it seems you're getting quite a number of responses on
this today.

Perhaps you (tech) just happen to be somwehere that the list is
"generally quiet" during your "day".


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: System Update Problem

[Stephen P. Molnar]

Many thanks
On 08/10/2018 07:29 AM, john doe wrote:

On 8/10/2018 12:33 PM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
I am running  Stretch on my 64 bit Linux platform. This morning, 
when  I run apt-get update as root I get:


root@AbNormal:/home/comp# apt update
Ign:1 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch InRelease
Hit:2 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-updates InRelease
Hit:3 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-backports InRelease
Hit:4 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch Release
Hit:5 https://desktop-download.mendeley.com/download/apt stable 
InRelease
Hit:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates 
InRelease

Hit:7 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
All packages are up to date.
W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-i386/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-all/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en_US) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-i386/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-all/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en_US) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24

root@AbNormal:/home/comp#

Needless to say, I am a bit concerned.  I run apt update several 
times a week, but have not had a problem.  Google gave a number of 
solutions for Ubuntu, but I am rather loathe to  mess with 
/ect/apt/sources.list:


# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch contrib main


# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch main contrib


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates 
main contrib non-free


# stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main 
contrib non-free


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports non-free 
contrib main
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main 
contrib non-free


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main

Comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.



You have duplicate lines, so you simply need to remove the duplicate 
lines from your sources.list file.


$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list (just after installation)

deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates 
main contrib non-free


# stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free


# stretch-backports, previously on backports.debian.org
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main contrib 
non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main 
contrib non-free


The lines are folded by my mailer.


Problem solved.

Many thanks.

--
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
Consultant
www.molecular-modeling.net
(614)312-7528 (c)
Skype: smolnar1

Re: System Update Problem

[john doe]

On 8/10/2018 12:33 PM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
I am running  Stretch on my 64 bit Linux platform. This morning, when  I 
run apt-get update as root I get:


root@AbNormal:/home/comp# apt update
Ign:1 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch InRelease
Hit:2 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-updates InRelease
Hit:3 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-backports InRelease
Hit:4 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch Release
Hit:5 https://desktop-download.mendeley.com/download/apt stable InRelease
Hit:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates InRelease
Hit:7 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
All packages are up to date.
W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-i386/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-all/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en_US) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-i386/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-all/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en_US) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24

root@AbNormal:/home/comp#

Needless to say, I am a bit concerned.  I run apt update several times a 
week, but have not had a problem.  Google gave a number  of solutions 
for Ubuntu, but I am rather loathe to  mess with /ect/apt/sources.list:


# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch contrib main


# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch main contrib


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free


# stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports non-free 
contrib main
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main 
contrib non-free


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main

Comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.



You have duplicate lines, so you simply need to remove the duplicate 
lines from your sources.list file.


$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list (just after installation)

deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free


# stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free


# stretch-backports, previously on backports.debian.org
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch-backports main contrib 
non-free


The lines are folded by my mailer.

--
John Doe

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Rich Kulawiec]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 06:24:55AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> I get more mail than that before breakfast. If you've got the
> right tools, it's easy to deal with.

This is an excellent point.  Many of the people who lodge complaints
like the one that started this discussion thread have chosen very poor
tools and thus have conflated the failings of those tools with some
non-existent inherent problems with mailing lists.

Serious email users should be using mutt, which is fast, compact,
resistant to attack, and has an astonishing number of features.
Those who receive large volumes of mail should be using procmail
to pre-sort it, and they should be aware of RFC 2919 (and thus
the existence of List-Id) as an excellent means for doing so.
These two tools in combination make dealing with large amounts
of traffic to large numbers of mailing lists quite easy.

Furthermore, everyone using mailing lists should be maintaining
their own archive, simply because there's no reason not to.  The
storage required is small by contemporary standards and doing so
allows the use of local search tools (e.g., grepmail) which can
invaluable in locating relevant messages.  (Those who haven't
been doing this can usually backfill by downloading the archives
maintained by the site running the mailing list.  in turn, everyone
running a mailing list should take care to see that those archives
are fully accessible, unredacted, and downloadable on demand.)

---rsk

Configuration des sources avec synaptic [résolu]

[judith]

Le vendredi 10 août 2018 à 12:38 +0200, Sylvain Caselli a écrit :
> Le 09/08/2018 à 13:51, Bernard Schoenacker a écrit :
> > 
> > au fait, il est possible de trouver Florence à Scharachbergheim,
> > mais
> > pas l'inverse  ;)
> 
> ?
> > merci
> 
> C'est moi, vraiment.
> > slt
> > bernard
> 
> Sylvain
> 
Nous somme content que vous puisiez avancé dans  votre projet
GREUBE SYSTEME DÉVELOPPE LES DISTRO LINUX (licence GPL) CREATION DE
LOGICIELS LOGISTIQUE ET...
travail avec les ONG le
droit de l'homme  sur la logistique
judith josselin
9 rue Eugène Delacroix 
68200 Mulhouse
France
tel 0770142577

-- 
judith 
GREUBE SYSTEME SECURITE HUMAINE PLANETAIRE

Re: System Update Problem

[Markus Schönhaber]

Stephen P. Molnar, Fr 10 Aug 2018 12:33:12 CEST:

> I am running  Stretch on my 64 bit Linux platform. This morning, when  I 
> run apt-get update as root I get:
> 
> root@AbNormal:/home/comp# apt update
> Ign:1 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch InRelease
> Hit:2 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-updates InRelease
> Hit:3 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-backports InRelease
> Hit:4 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch Release
> Hit:5 https://desktop-download.mendeley.com/download/apt stable InRelease
> Hit:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates InRelease
> Hit:7 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> All packages are up to date.
> W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured multiple 
> times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
[...]
> root@AbNormal:/home/comp#

The warning message is pretty explicit. Take a look at the lines 17 and
24 of /etc/apt/sources.list.

> Needless to say, I am a bit concerned.  I run apt update several times a 
> week, but have not had a problem.  Google gave a number  of solutions 
> for Ubuntu, but I am rather loathe to  mess with /ect/apt/sources.list:

Don't know how the text below relates to the sources.list on your
machine (line-number-wise) but...

> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
> Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch contrib main
> 
> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
> Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch main contrib
> 
> deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib
> deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib
> 
> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main 
> contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main 
> contrib non-free
> 
> # stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
> deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
> non-free
> deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
> non-free
> 
> deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports non-free 
> contrib main

...this ^^^ and..

> deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main 
> contrib non-free
> 
> deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main

...that ^^^ seem to be the duplication apt warns about.

-- 
Regards
  mks

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 05:39:36PM +, tech wrote:
> The way most people keep up to date on network news is through
> subscription to a number of mail reflectors [...]

To add to other people's responses here (with which I do agree), perhaps
you should consider using a more modern mail user agent: guessing by
your headers (the User-Agent header is missing, so I can only guess),
you are using a Microsoft user agent, perhaps Outlook. Microsoft actually
never "got" email right, and these days downright hates it, because it
is decentralized and can't be controlled as centralized platforms can
be[1].

So your experience will always be second-rate with such a user agent.

[1] I know what I'm talking about: I've watched the slow and painful
   process of replacing mail with something more "modern" (O365) in
   a big corp, and the underhanded tactics of badmouthing and
   marginalizing fueled by a Microsoft-supported "team".

cheers
- -- t
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlttbDMACgkQBcgs9XrR2kY7hwCeOlyZrrnQDmZtBaQw/p/cyDbl
S38An2EMvtBIGgenuXyiQ3wg1uh9V4vI
=yYn9
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Configuration des sources avec synaptic [résolu]

[Sylvain Caselli]

Le 09/08/2018 à 13:51, Bernard Schoenacker a écrit :


au fait, il est possible de trouver Florence à Scharachbergheim, mais
pas l'inverse  ;)

?

merci

C'est moi, vraiment.

slt
bernard

Sylvain

System Update Problem

[Stephen P. Molnar]

I am running  Stretch on my 64 bit Linux platform. This morning, when  I 
run apt-get update as root I get:


root@AbNormal:/home/comp# apt update
Ign:1 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch InRelease
Hit:2 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-updates InRelease
Hit:3 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch-backports InRelease
Hit:4 http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian stretch Release
Hit:5 https://desktop-download.mendeley.com/download/apt stable InRelease
Hit:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates InRelease
Hit:7 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
All packages are up to date.
W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-i386/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-all/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en_US) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-amd64/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-i386/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Packages (main/binary-all/Packages) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en_US) is configured 
multiple times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24
W: Target Translations (main/i18n/Translation-en) is configured multiple 
times in /etc/apt/sources.list:17 and /etc/apt/sources.list:24

root@AbNormal:/home/comp#

Needless to say, I am a bit concerned.  I run apt update several times a 
week, but have not had a problem.  Google gave a number  of solutions 
for Ubuntu, but I am rather loathe to  mess with /ect/apt/sources.list:


# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch contrib main


# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.3.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD 
Binary-1 20171209-12:11]/ stretch main contrib


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main 
contrib non-free


# stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib 
non-free


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports non-free 
contrib main
deb-src http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main 
contrib non-free


deb http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ stretch-backports main

Comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

--
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
Consultant
www.molecular-modeling.net
(614)312-7528 (c)
Skype: smolnar1

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Ritter]

On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 06:05:41PM +, tech wrote:
> 
> ... and why not ?
> 
> 
> As an example, with a bugzilla, you dont have to dig in n*thousands of 
> "unread" mails,. You can organized, have a clear view with a dashboard... and 
> so on.
> 
> And bugzilla is just one possibility.

Are you aware that bugs.debian.org exists already?

> Since augusth 1st:
> 
> I received around 12 familly mails, 62 pro-mails, 147 spam/pishing/bullshit 
> mails
> 
> Between all the debian mails list who exist, i receives  also 168 emails.
> 
> I have maybee read 20 of them, and deleted all the others...


I get more mail than that before breakfast. If you've got the
right tools, it's easy to deal with.

1. Spam filter. Spamassassin is good. If you can add greylisting
to your mail server, you should try that, too.

2. Automatic mail folders. The only mail that ends up in your
inbox should be mail that your ruleset is not certain about.
Each mailing list should get its own folder. Maildrop is easy
to learn.

3. Indexed mail searching. Whatever works with your preferred
mail client. Have cron run a re-index every morning before you
wake up.

4. Mail threading in your mail client. If it doesn't do threads
properly, time to change clients. I like mutt.


> I have sent the following emails, received zero anwsers. With a "modern" 
> system like a bugzilla/forum/tracker/else and their moder options, i can know 
> how many peoples have read it ( 23 answer for 9876 readsfor example ) ... 
> with the mailings list, how many people took relly the time to read it ( as i 
> direct-delete most of he amils i receive ) ...

Who cares who read your mail? Only the answers are important.


> with your "no" spirit, we would still have an horse and wagon like my 
> old-old-old grandpa !

This isn't "No", this is "Why are you insisting on the
superiority of a tack hammer in all circumstances when we have a variety
of tools available? Including a torque-calibrated power driver
that works much better on the bolts you are trying to hammer."

-dsr-

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Dan Purgert]

Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 05:39:36PM +, tech wrote:
>> Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something
>> more modern like a bugzilla or else ???
>
> No.

Do HTML archives of said mailing lists count as "more modern"?

Granted, they're not "methods of communication" so much as "a lifesaver
when I'm trying to figure out some cryptic error message."


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 05:39:36PM +, tech wrote:

Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something
more modern like a bugzilla or else ???


Assuming you are talking about systems for discussion, rather than
filing bugs: Debian has  and has had for a
long time, but it gets relatively little use.

Personally I'd love to see the list archive software get an overhaul,
and mailman3's "HyperKitty" archiver looks very promising to me, but I'm
not sure whether it has delivered on the promise, which was to offer a
very forum-like interface to mailing lists, permitting people to reply
via web, or click "+1" buttons (thus freeing the mail interface of lots
of "+1" mails, a blight that debian-user fortunately doesn't suffer)

--

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Anders Andersson]

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Thursday 09 August 2018 12:26:24 Martin wrote:
>> Am 09.08.2018 um 18:15 schrieb Gene Heskett:
>> > On Thursday 09 August 2018 11:16:27 Martin wrote:
>> >> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
>> >
>> > Then I suggest you reread man ntp.conf, and /etc/ntp.conf, and edit
>> > it as root until you do understand it. Note that changes to take
>> > effect, need a root session of "service ntp restart".
>>
>> Wrong topic, may be?
>> I used to use ntpd. Then tried systemd-timesyncd to act a a server.
>> Which it will not do. Hence, I run ntpd.
>
> Wrong topic? Note that nowhere in that portion of my msg you snipped, was
> systemd.timesyncd mentioned. It may have been in some other part of that
> message that I didn't author, and which you also snipped.
> You might want to let some of the stuffing out of that shirt. I was
> trying to be helpfull because the docs do suck a bit.  And helpfull
> people are harder and harder to find because of folks with an attitude

You're the one with the attitude here. Martin claimed that the
documentation for systemd-timesyncd sucked, and that it can not serve
time to a local network. You then go on to lecture him about reading
the documentation for NTP, "until you understand it", something he
obviously already does since he is already using it. After he
clarified the context, Instead of apologizing you reply with an attack
about his stuffed shirt.

Re: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Darac Marjal]

On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 05:39:36PM +, tech wrote:
   The way most people keep up to date on network news is through subscription to a number of mail reflectors (also known as  
   mail exploders). Mail reflectors are special electronic mailboxes which, when they receive a message, resend it to a list of   
   other mailboxes. This in effect creates a discussion group on a particular topic.  
   - E. Krol; The Hitchhikers Guide to the Internet; RFC 1118; Sept. 1989.
  
   Seem's the first "bitnic listserv" is dated from 1984 ! More than 34 years ago !   
  
   Just as a reminder, we are now in 2018 ... something called the XXI century ... with 4G, optical FTTH connection,  
   smartphones ...
  
   Should'nt be time to move away from an old mail-listing to something more modern like a bugzilla or else ???   


OK. Done. There's a forum at http://forums.debian.net. As Maui said: 
"You're welcome."


--
For more information, please reread.


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iptables et fwbuilder

[Migrec]

Bonjour,

Je cherche à bloquer un site internet grâce à fwbuilder. Je dispose 
d'une petit serveur Debian et de clients Ubuntu ainsi que des 
téléphones/tablettes.
J'ai bien créé la règle, elle semble se compiler mais elle n'apparaît 
pas dans la sortie de iptables -L


Je ne vois pas trop comment chercher ce qui ne va pas. Une idée ?
Par la suite, je souhaite restreindre cette règles à certaines adresses 
MAC seulement.


--
Mic Grentz