Re: systemdq [Solved]

[Reco]

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 02:57:19PM -0700, ghe wrote:
> On 12/29/19 10:21 AM, Reco wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 09:40:29AM -0700, ghe wrote:
> >> Somebody just forgot to enable SSH while preparing the Raspian Buster
> >> release, it looks like.
> > 
> > Nope. It was deliberate - [1] (note the "ssh" part).
> 
> Amazing. I'm a self-taught *nix geek, but I've never seen a release
> without SSH.

Ubuntu folks used to ship their desktop distribution without a ssh
daemon. Many LiveCD distributions do the same.


> Not since I figured out what SSH is, anyway. Makes me
> question the sanity of the otherwise quite rational 'Pi folks.

If you ship a distribution with a well-known username/password pair,
then giving a remote access to a user by default is not a good idea.
Especially if your distribution is "user-firendly".


> > Reading error messages is not a viable substitute to reading the
> > documentation. At least the distribution one.
> 
> Look. The problem was with the lame systemd error message. It didn't
> provide enough info to figure out how to correct my action.  And I did
> look for dox. I looked for systemd commands, and didn't find anything
> useful. That's why I asked the list. What I needed was a little help
> from somebody who knows systemd.

Systemd is an enigmatic beast, written by enterprise folks (RH/IBM) for
the enterprise folks to solve enterprise needs.
So of course error messages told just about anything but the problem you
were facing.


> When I try to use a CLI program from the 'apt' collection as a user, the
> error message says 'Are you root?' -- useful information.

... and "apt" was written by the humans for the humans. The difference
is obvious.


> If the systemd message had said something like "A unit file isn't
> enabled' or something like that, I probably would have found the
> solution. After a couple responses from the list, I had an idea of how
> to look up a solution. And in 5 minutes, all was well.

See above.


> > Small "problems" such as this "ssh-sshd" discrepancy is the reason
> > Raspbian is frowned upon here. It's close to Debian yes, except for such
> > small yet fundamental parts, which makes it different to Debian.
> 
> I didn't know that. They claim it's the same (with a peculiar /boot
> directory), and in the time I've been using 'Pis, I've never seen one do
> anything different from a Debian box.

The people see ".deb" file extension and think "gee, it's Debian".
It's not.

Reco

Re: Re: Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Andreas (2019-12-30 03:44:43)
> > > > Binutils is supported upstream
> > >
> > > that's reassuring. But were is Debian communicating this important 
> > > bit of information?
> 
> > I am not so sure that it is reassuring.
> 
> > Question is not if upstream supports their own (continuously changing) 
> > code, but if the stable code distributed with Debian is supported.
> 
> I was supposing that Mark's answer implied that (against general 
> policies of debian and for reasons unknown to me) in this case 
> security changes of upstream would be passed on to debian, even if 
> binutils is "not covered by security support". If this is (probably?) 
> not the case, the fact that binutils is supported by upstream of 
> course is of no help.
> 
> It's difficult to swallow that in *stable* debian should leave its 
> users alone as to the security of such a central peace of software as 
> binutils. So I'm still hoping to find out that security updates for 
> binutils in debian stable are in some (maybe unconventional way) 
> secured.

If it was secured, then command "check-support-status" in package 
debian-security-support would not list it as "Not covered by security 
support".

If you are still not convinced, then I recommend that you ask Debian 
security team for further clarification rather than your fellow Debian 
users here.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


signature.asc
Description: signature

Re: Re: Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Andreas]

> > > Binutils is supported upstream
> >
> > that's reassuring. But were is Debian communicating this important bit
> > of information?

> I am not so sure that it is reassuring.

> Question is not if upstream supports their own (continuously changing) 
> code, but if the stable code distributed with Debian is supported.

I was supposing that Mark's answer implied that (against general
policies of debian and for reasons unknown to me) in this case security
changes of upstream would be passed on to debian, even if binutils is
"not covered by security support". If this is (probably?) not the case,
the fact that binutils is supported by upstream of course is of no help.

It's difficult to swallow that in *stable* debian should leave its users
alone as to the security of such a central peace of software as
binutils. So I'm still hoping to find out that security updates for
binutils in debian stable are in some (maybe unconventional way)
secured.

Andreas

Re: systemdq [Solved]

[David Wright]

On Sun 29 Dec 2019 at 14:57:19 (-0700), ghe wrote:
> On 12/29/19 10:21 AM, Reco wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 09:40:29AM -0700, ghe wrote:
> >> Somebody just forgot to enable SSH while preparing the Raspian Buster
> >> release, it looks like.
> > 
> > Nope. It was deliberate - [1] (note the "ssh" part).
> 
> Amazing. I'm a self-taught *nix geek, but I've never seen a release
> without SSH. Not since I figured out what SSH is, anyway. Makes me
> question the sanity of the otherwise quite rational 'Pi folks.
> 
> > Reading error messages is not a viable substitute to reading the
> > documentation. At least the distribution one.
> 
> Look. The problem was with the lame systemd error message. It didn't
> provide enough info to figure out how to correct my action. And I did
> look for dox. I looked for systemd commands, and didn't find anything
> useful. That's why I asked the list. What I needed was a little help
> from somebody who knows systemd.
> 
> When I try to use a CLI program from the 'apt' collection as a user, the
> error message says 'Are you root?' -- useful information.
> 
> If the systemd message had said something like "A unit file isn't
> enabled' or something like that, I probably would have found the
> solution. After a couple responses from the list, I had an idea of how
> to look up a solution. And in 5 minutes, all was well.
> 
> > Small "problems" such as this "ssh-sshd" discrepancy is the reason
> > Raspbian is frowned upon here. It's close to Debian yes, except for such
> > small yet fundamental parts, which makes it different to Debian.
> 
> I didn't know that. They claim it's the same (with a peculiar /boot
> directory), and in the time I've been using 'Pis, I've never seen one do
> anything different from a Debian box.
> 
> With this trouble, though, there was no difference between Debian and
> Raspian. Same systemd, same .system files, same SSH, same systemd
> command to get it started.
> 
> Why it was disabled is a matter for another discussion...

I thought the answer was pretty obvious and is explained on their
Security Page which has a link on [1] (the earlier reference):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/security.md
It appears that one of the important differences between Debian and
PIs is that you install a unique OS with Debian, in contrast to PIs
which receive a cloned image. So an installed, but un-reconfigured,
PI is completely insecure: sshd would be a wide-open invitation.

Cheers,
David.

Re: systemdq

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 29 December 2019 17:19:06 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 05:11:18PM -0500, chris wrote:
> > There's nothing wrong with not being a fan of systemd.
>
> Absolutely not. Myself, I'm not a fan either.
>
> > It's good to let people know there's a active community that isn't
> > overly impressed [...]
>
> But what I definitely don't like either is this dramatization.
>
> My wish would be that we, the non-fans and the fans of systemd
> work together in peace. That's all.
>
> Cheers
> -- tomás

Unforch Tomas, we are not likely to see any progress toward acceptance of 
systemd until some means of eliciting a meaningfull error message from 
it comes into existence. LP must lay awake nights thinking up ways to 
makes its output totally unrelated to whats wrong.

Chasing us off from asking raspbian related questions here, is a lost 
cause because they don't have a mailing list, but a forum generally 
populated by uppity folks, who when you think you are about to get an 
answer to your problem, decide to declare the conversation has drifted 
off topic and refuse to further participate in the discussion, leaving 
you hanging for a real answer.  So while we do take our questions there, 
we are forced, language barrier, whatever, to come back here, starting 
yet another new thread in hopes we will get a usable answer.

I don't like it, helpfull folks like you don't like it. But thats how it 
actually works.

Thanks Tomas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Andreas (2019-12-30 00:49:10)
> > Binutils is supported upstream
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> that's reassuring. But were is Debian communicating this important bit
> of information?

I am not so sure that it is reassuring.

Question is not if upstream supports their own (continuously changing) 
code, but if the stable code distributed with Debian is supported.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


signature.asc
Description: signature

Re: Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Andreas]

> Binutils is supported upstream

Thanks,

that's reassuring. But were is Debian communicating this important bit
of information?

Thanks again,

Andreas

Re: Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Andreas]

And the same for libqt5webkit5:

* Source:qtwebkit-opensource-src
  Details: No security support upstream and backports not feasible, only for 
use on trusted content
  Affected binary package:
  - libqt5webkit5:amd64

It's a real problem, IMHO, that essential parts of kde depend on
something like this ...

Andreas

Re: systemdq

[tomas]

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 05:11:18PM -0500, chris wrote:
> There's nothing wrong with not being a fan of systemd.

Absolutely not. Myself, I'm not a fan either.

> It's good to let people know there's a active community that isn't
> overly impressed [...]

But what I definitely don't like either is this dramatization.

My wish would be that we, the non-fans and the fans of systemd
work together in peace. That's all.

Cheers
-- tomás


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: systemdq

[chris]

There's nothing wrong with not being a fan of systemd. It's good to let
people know there's a active community that isn't overly impressed and the
link also shows that recent poll shows its quite popular position that
there should be alternatives supported. Thankfully it's still possible to
have a clean system that's systemd-free

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 4:30 AM  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 08:38:25PM -0500, chris wrote:
> > dont worry the resistance to systemd is still strong not everyone drinks
> > the kool aid
>
> What I don't understand is why you have to put this under such
> antagonistic terms.
>
> Cheers
> -- tomás
>

Re: systemdq [Solved]

[ghe]

On 12/29/19 10:21 AM, Reco wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 09:40:29AM -0700, ghe wrote:
>> Somebody just forgot to enable SSH while preparing the Raspian Buster
>> release, it looks like.
> 
> Nope. It was deliberate - [1] (note the "ssh" part).

Amazing. I'm a self-taught *nix geek, but I've never seen a release
without SSH. Not since I figured out what SSH is, anyway. Makes me
question the sanity of the otherwise quite rational 'Pi folks.

> Reading error messages is not a viable substitute to reading the
> documentation. At least the distribution one.

Look. The problem was with the lame systemd error message. It didn't
provide enough info to figure out how to correct my action. And I did
look for dox. I looked for systemd commands, and didn't find anything
useful. That's why I asked the list. What I needed was a little help
from somebody who knows systemd.

When I try to use a CLI program from the 'apt' collection as a user, the
error message says 'Are you root?' -- useful information.

If the systemd message had said something like "A unit file isn't
enabled' or something like that, I probably would have found the
solution. After a couple responses from the list, I had an idea of how
to look up a solution. And in 5 minutes, all was well.

> Small "problems" such as this "ssh-sshd" discrepancy is the reason
> Raspbian is frowned upon here. It's close to Debian yes, except for such
> small yet fundamental parts, which makes it different to Debian.

I didn't know that. They claim it's the same (with a peculiar /boot
directory), and in the time I've been using 'Pis, I've never seen one do
anything different from a Debian box.

With this trouble, though, there was no difference between Debian and
Raspian. Same systemd, same .system files, same SSH, same systemd
command to get it started.

Why it was disabled is a matter for another discussion...

-- 
Glenn English

Re: ip / mac / arp probleem

[mj]

Hoi Paul,

On 12/28/19 10:21 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:

Wat mij een goede oplossing lijkt is dat 1 persoon verantwoordelijk is
voor het netwerk en de IP-adressen uitdeelt. En dit ook documenteert
voor een vervanger.


Uiteraard is alles wat je hierboven schrijft het geval. Het gaat hier om 
een externe monteur die op eigen houtje, zonder overleg, zomaar iets 
gedaan heeft, en ons daar enorme problemen mee bezorgde.


Ik wil dat voor een volgende keer sowieso direct ontdekken, door bv 
arpalert, zoals gesuggereerd door Geert.


Maar nog liever wil ik dit voorkomen, onmogelijk maken. Daarom heb ik 
zulke devices inmiddels op een speciaal VLAN gezet, maar hoop ik ook op 
één of andere config (acl of zo) voor de procurves.



Als een manager een andere techneut toelaat zonder overleg, dan lijkt
het me logisch wie hier de fout heeft gemaakt.


Daar is ook geen enkel misverstand over.

MJ

Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Stephan Seitz]

On So, Dez 29, 2019 at 08:48:40 +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Why do you say that these packages have no or limited security support ?


Because Debian says so.

root@fsing ~ # dpkg -s debian-security-support
Package: debian-security-support
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Installed-Size: 158
Maintainer: Holger Levsen 
Architecture: all
Version: 2019.06.13
Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, adduser, gettext-base
Conffiles:
 /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/debian-security-support 08577c44ee76afd1a5622392d32318ea
Description: Debian security support coverage checker
 For some Debian packages, it is not feasible to maintain full security
 support for all use cases through the full distribution release
 cycle.
 .
 This package provides a program to identify installed packages for
 which support has had to be limited or prematurely ended, and to
 alert the administrator.
 .
 New versions of this package with updated checklists will be provided
 via standard and/or extended security support.


root@fsing ~ # env LANG=C check-support-status 
Limited security support for one or more packages


Unfortunately, it has been necessary to limit security support for some 
packages.


The following packages found on this system are affected by this:

* Source:binutils
  Details: Not covered by security support
  Affected binary packages:
  - binutils (installed version: 2.31.1-16)
  - binutils-common:amd64 (installed version: 2.31.1-16)
  - binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu (installed version: 2.31.1-16)
  - libbinutils:amd64 (installed version: 2.31.1-16)


Shade and sweet water!

Stephan

--
|If your life was a horse, you'd have to shoot it.|

Re: Windows install on 4 partitions?

[Doug McGarrett]

On 12/29/2019 11:05 AM, Kenneth Parker wrote:



On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 10:30 AM Joe mailto:j...@jretrading.com>> wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 07:55:22 -0500
rhkra...@gmail.com  wrote:

 > On Saturday, December 28, 2019 03:46:53 PM Doug McGarrett wrote:
 > > I bought a new computer last summer, and it came with Windows 10 on
 > > FOUR partitions! I shrank the Windows partition 4 to 100 GiB to
 > > allow a minimum Windows system for anything that won't run on
 > > OpenSUSE TW, and made a new partition for Linux, using a disk for
 > > GParted. Works fine.
 >
 > Interesting, I'm wondering about the logic behind that -- was that an
 > effort to segregate the user's "real" data (photos, videos, email,
 > ...) on a separate partition?

No, MS has never done that. The Users directory is always part of the
system tree. If Windows breaks badly, or gets a virus, you reinstall
it. It's your responsibility to have backed up anything you want to
keep.

 >
 > Which manufacturer?  What is on /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4?  (Are
 > /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 as described in the original email (Windows
 > and Windows recovery partitions)?
 >
 > I don't remember the correct terminology, but is the partioning done
 > under whe old scheme (where there can be up to 4 primary partitions
 > or 3 primary partions and then (hmm, iirc, up to 12?) extended
 > partitions "under" /dev/sda, or under the new scheme (which I don't
 > remember enough about to describe -- I vaguely think a lot more
 > partitions and all of them primary?)?
 >

I'd guess C:, Recovery, EFI and a small 'Microsoft Reserved Partition'.
The MS Disk Administrator does not show this reserved partition, but
GParted does. My Windows 10 machine is an Acer Aspire netbook (which, by
the way, came fitted with a drive too small to do the inevitable set of
updates after first boot). Partitions will be GPT now.


I have an HP, where I, in effect, replaced Windows with multiple Linux
Partitions, Debian, Devuan and Ubuntu.  Most of the 1 Terrabyte
[Spinning] Hard Drive was the, actual NTFS Windows Partition.  I Blew
all of that away.  But that was Partition Four.  In order, Partition 1
is 1G, Hidden NTFS, and labeled "diag".  Partition 2 is Fat32 (377 MB),
EFI, and I use it, with both Debian's and Refind's EFI Programs, to
allow me to Boot.  (Since every Debian Upgrade that includes Grub
Reconfigures Grub, the Refind part is there in name only).  Partition 3
has a Blank File System name (in parted), is 134 MB, and is labeled
"Microsoft Reserved Partition", with a Flag of msftres.

Since they didn't take up much space, I thought it would be prudent to
leave the first three Partitions alone (except for using the EFI one).

My 1.97 Cents worth.  :-)

Kenneth Parker
Computer is a make hitherto unknown to me--"PowerSpec" bought from 
MicroCenter in Westbury, NY. I believe Ken explained the partitioning.
I didn't want to mess with the Windows layout, even tho I almost never 
boot into that os. (But i may have to: I can't get midi to work in Linux.)

--doug

Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 29/12/2019 à 20:28, Andreas Goesele a écrit :


I just went from jessie to buster and I didn't discover any serious
problem so far.

But I tried to remove all packages where there is no or only limitid
security support and ended up with 5 packages I don't think I should/can
remove:

binutils (and binutils-common, libbinutils, binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu)
and libqt5webkit5.


Why do you say that these packages have no or limited security support ?

Re: No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Mark Allums]

On 12/29/2019 1:28 PM, Andreas Goesele wrote:

Hi,

I just went from jessie to buster and I didn't discover any serious
problem so far.

But I tried to remove all packages where there is no or only limitid
security support and ended up with 5 packages I don't think I should/can
remove:

binutils (and binutils-common, libbinutils, binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu)

and libqt5webkit5.

binutils is needed quite often and if I want to remove libqt5webkit5
among other things plasma-desktop disappears.

Do I just have to live with these packages without security support or
is there any way arround it?

Andreas


Binutils is supported upstream, and you really can't live without it, 
anyway.

No security support for binutils and libqt5webkit5, what to do?

[Andreas Goesele]

Hi,

I just went from jessie to buster and I didn't discover any serious
problem so far.

But I tried to remove all packages where there is no or only limitid
security support and ended up with 5 packages I don't think I should/can
remove:

binutils (and binutils-common, libbinutils, binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu)

and libqt5webkit5.

binutils is needed quite often and if I want to remove libqt5webkit5
among other things plasma-desktop disappears.

Do I just have to live with these packages without security support or
is there any way arround it?

Andreas

-- 
Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur,
nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est.
  Augustinus, De doctrina christiana

Re: systemdq [Solved]

[Reco]

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 09:40:29AM -0700, ghe wrote:
> Somebody just forgot to enable SSH while preparing the Raspian Buster
> release, it looks like.

Nope. It was deliberate - [1] (note the "ssh" part).


> And I didn't know enough about systemd to
> realize that was what the error message was trying to tell me.

Reading error messages is not a viable substitute to reading the
documentation. At least the distribution one.

Small "problems" such as this "ssh-sshd" discrepancy is the reason
Raspbian is frowned upon here. It's close to Debian yes, except for such
small yet fundamental parts, which makes it different to Debian.

Reco

[1] https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/remote-access/ssh/

Re: systemdq [Solved]

[Curt]

On 2019-12-29, ghe  wrote:
> On 12/29/19 7:07 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>
>> The correct solution to your problem would have been:
>> 
>> systemctl enable ssh
>
> Exactly.
>

Right. Thanks for clearing that up!

-- 
"J'ai pour me guérir du jugement des autres toute la distance qui me sépare de
moi." Antonin Artaud

Re: systemdq [Solved]

[ghe]

On 12/29/19 7:07 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> The correct solution to your problem would have been:
> 
> systemctl enable ssh

Exactly.

The ssh.service files are identical on Debian Buster (this box) and on
Raspian Buster (the RPi4 over there). As is the list of ssh* files --
was before I created sshd.service on the RPi, anyway.

Somebody just forgot to enable SSH while preparing the Raspian Buster
release, it looks like. And I didn't know enough about systemd to
realize that was what the error message was trying to tell me.

-- 
Glenn English

Re: systemdq

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 29 December 2019 08:21:30 Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Sb, 28 dec 19, 12:06:25, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 28 December 2019 11:08:20 ghe wrote:
> > > On 12/27/19 5:02 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
> > > > Have you tried removing openssh-server package and reinstalling
> > > > it?
> > >
> > > Another hopefully good suggestion. Thanks, and I'll try it.
> > >
> > > > If you re using any version of Debian
> > >
> > > Raspian Buster.
> >
> > One problem, raspian buster is armhf, debian is arm64.
>
> Debian also has an armhf port[1].

Not at all obvious from the available downloads selections.

> Raspbian (note the 'B') was created because Debian's armhf port
> requires an ARMv7 processor, whereas the original Raspberry Pi
> (Raspberry Pi 1 model B) is ARMv6.
>
> [1] https://www.debian.org/ports/#portlist-released
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Windows install on 4 partitions? (was: Re: INQUIRY)

[Kenneth Parker]

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 10:30 AM Joe  wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 07:55:22 -0500
> rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, December 28, 2019 03:46:53 PM Doug McGarrett wrote:
> > > I bought a new computer last summer, and it came with Windows 10 on
> > > FOUR partitions! I shrank the Windows partition 4 to 100 GiB to
> > > allow a minimum Windows system for anything that won't run on
> > > OpenSUSE TW, and made a new partition for Linux, using a disk for
> > > GParted. Works fine.
> >
> > Interesting, I'm wondering about the logic behind that -- was that an
> > effort to segregate the user's "real" data (photos, videos, email,
> > ...) on a separate partition?
>
> No, MS has never done that. The Users directory is always part of the
> system tree. If Windows breaks badly, or gets a virus, you reinstall
> it. It's your responsibility to have backed up anything you want to
> keep.
>
> >
> > Which manufacturer?  What is on /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4?  (Are
> > /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 as described in the original email (Windows
> > and Windows recovery partitions)?
> >
> > I don't remember the correct terminology, but is the partioning done
> > under whe old scheme (where there can be up to 4 primary partitions
> > or 3 primary partions and then (hmm, iirc, up to 12?) extended
> > partitions "under" /dev/sda, or under the new scheme (which I don't
> > remember enough about to describe -- I vaguely think a lot more
> > partitions and all of them primary?)?
> >
>
> I'd guess C:, Recovery, EFI and a small 'Microsoft Reserved Partition'.
> The MS Disk Administrator does not show this reserved partition, but
> GParted does. My Windows 10 machine is an Acer Aspire netbook (which, by
> the way, came fitted with a drive too small to do the inevitable set of
> updates after first boot). Partitions will be GPT now.
>

I have an HP, where I, in effect, replaced Windows with multiple Linux
Partitions, Debian, Devuan and Ubuntu.  Most of the 1 Terrabyte [Spinning]
Hard Drive was the, actual NTFS Windows Partition.  I Blew all of that
away.  But that was Partition Four.  In order, Partition 1 is 1G, Hidden
NTFS, and labeled "diag".  Partition 2 is Fat32 (377 MB), EFI, and I use
it, with both Debian's and Refind's EFI Programs, to allow me to Boot.
(Since every Debian Upgrade that includes Grub Reconfigures Grub, the
Refind part is there in name only).  Partition 3 has a Blank File System
name (in parted), is 134 MB, and is labeled "Microsoft Reserved Partition",
with a Flag of msftres.

Since they didn't take up much space, I thought it would be prudent to
leave the first three Partitions alone (except for using the EFI one).

My 1.97 Cents worth.  :-)

Kenneth Parker

Re: Windows install on 4 partitions? (was: Re: INQUIRY)

[Joe]

On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 07:55:22 -0500
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Saturday, December 28, 2019 03:46:53 PM Doug McGarrett wrote:
> > I bought a new computer last summer, and it came with Windows 10 on
> > FOUR partitions! I shrank the Windows partition 4 to 100 GiB to
> > allow a minimum Windows system for anything that won't run on
> > OpenSUSE TW, and made a new partition for Linux, using a disk for
> > GParted. Works fine.  
> 
> Interesting, I'm wondering about the logic behind that -- was that an
> effort to segregate the user's "real" data (photos, videos, email,
> ...) on a separate partition?

No, MS has never done that. The Users directory is always part of the
system tree. If Windows breaks badly, or gets a virus, you reinstall
it. It's your responsibility to have backed up anything you want to
keep.

> 
> Which manufacturer?  What is on /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4?  (Are
> /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 as described in the original email (Windows
> and Windows recovery partitions)?
> 
> I don't remember the correct terminology, but is the partioning done
> under whe old scheme (where there can be up to 4 primary partitions
> or 3 primary partions and then (hmm, iirc, up to 12?) extended
> partitions "under" /dev/sda, or under the new scheme (which I don't
> remember enough about to describe -- I vaguely think a lot more
> partitions and all of them primary?)?
> 

I'd guess C:, Recovery, EFI and a small 'Microsoft Reserved Partition'.
The MS Disk Administrator does not show this reserved partition, but
GParted does. My Windows 10 machine is an Acer Aspire netbook (which, by
the way, came fitted with a drive too small to do the inevitable set of
updates after first boot). Partitions will be GPT now.

-- 
Joe

Re: Windows install on 4 partitions?

[Felix Miata]

rhkra...@gmail.com composed on 2019-12-29 07:55 (UTC-0500):

> Interesting, I'm wondering about the logic behind that -- was that an effort 
> to 
> segregate the user's "real" data (photos, videos, email, ...) on a separate 
> partition?

> Which manufacturer?

Probably:
HP
Dell
Toshiba
Lenovo
and others

>  What is on /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4?

ESP MSR WinOS   Recovery



from


IMO it's inept not to have a 5th purely for user data.

>  (Are /dev/sda1 and 
> /dev/sda2 as described in the original email (Windows and Windows recovery 
> partitions)?

> I don't remember the correct terminology, but is the partioning done under 
> whe 
> old scheme (where there can be up to 4 primary partitions or 3 primary 
> partions and then (hmm, iirc, up to 12?) extended partitions "under" 
> /dev/sda, 
> or under the new scheme (which I don't remember enough about to describe -- I 
> vaguely think a lot more partitions and all of them primary?)?

This is UEFI/GPT. Win7/8/10 requires UEFI on every system whose "BIOS" is 
actually
UEFI, which is essentially all PCs made since the advent of Win 8 or 10. With 
GPT
there is no concept of primary/extended/logical.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: systemdq [Solved]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 28 dec 19, 15:07:27, ghe wrote:
> Trivial in retrospect.
> 
> There were several ssh* files in /lib/systemd/service. None named sshd*.
> I copied the one named ssh.service to sshd.service, enabled it,
> rebooted, and there is was.

For the archives, the Debian package only ships the unit 'ssh.service' 
(in line with '/etc/init.d/ssh'), which contains an 'Alias=sshd'.

As per systemd.unit(5) aliases are only effective when the unit is 
enabled.

The correct solution to your problem would have been:

systemctl enable ssh

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: systemdq

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Andrei POPESCU (2019-12-29 14:21:30)
> On Sb, 28 dec 19, 12:06:25, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 28 December 2019 11:08:20 ghe wrote:
> > 
> > > On 12/27/19 5:02 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
> > > > Have you tried removing openssh-server package and reinstalling it?
> > >
> > > Another hopefully good suggestion. Thanks, and I'll try it.
> > >
> > > > If you re using any version of Debian
> > >
> > > Raspian Buster.
> > 
> > One problem, raspian buster is armhf, debian is arm64.
> 
> Debian also has an armhf port[1].
> 
> Raspbian (note the 'B') was created because Debian's armhf port requires 
> an ARMv7 processor, whereas the original Raspberry Pi (Raspberry Pi 1 
> model B) is ARMv6.

Thanks a lot for mentioning loudly which system is used.

Raspbian is not Debian.  Please discuss Raspbian-specific issues in 
Raspbian forums.

Feel free to discuss issues here which are same on Debian and 
derivatives of Debian, but as soon as that is suspected to not be the 
case - as is the case here - check that the issue is repeatable with 
Debian, or stop discuss it further here.

Reason for that is that it is super confusing and leads to a lot of 
noise and wrong assumptions to discuss partly incompatible systems.

"armel" and "armhf" and "arm64" are *Debian* names for their ports.

Raspbian ports are *different* from Debian but possibly use same names. 
Super confusing at a low level, causing those unaware of the low level 
differences to clutter further discussions with confusing potentially 
wrong or misleading suggestions and assumptions.

Please don't.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


signature.asc
Description: signature

Re: systemdq

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 28 dec 19, 12:06:25, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 28 December 2019 11:08:20 ghe wrote:
> 
> > On 12/27/19 5:02 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
> > > Have you tried removing openssh-server package and reinstalling it?
> >
> > Another hopefully good suggestion. Thanks, and I'll try it.
> >
> > > If you re using any version of Debian
> >
> > Raspian Buster.
> 
> One problem, raspian buster is armhf, debian is arm64.

Debian also has an armhf port[1].

Raspbian (note the 'B') was created because Debian's armhf port requires 
an ARMv7 processor, whereas the original Raspberry Pi (Raspberry Pi 1 
model B) is ARMv6.

[1] https://www.debian.org/ports/#portlist-released

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: systemdq [Solved]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 28 dec 19, 15:07:27, ghe wrote:
> Trivial in retrospect.
> 
> There were several ssh* files in /lib/systemd/service. None named sshd*.
> I copied the one named ssh.service to sshd.service, enabled it,
> rebooted, and there is was.
> 
> An interesting question is why things are different in Raspian Stretch

Because they can :)

> on a 3+. For the time being, I'll just blame the RPi4 OS/motherboard. Or me.

Hardware doesn't matter here.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Windows install on 4 partitions? (was: Re: INQUIRY)

[rhkramer]

On Saturday, December 28, 2019 03:46:53 PM Doug McGarrett wrote:
> I bought a new computer last summer, and it came with Windows 10 on FOUR
> partitions! I shrank the Windows partition 4 to 100 GiB to allow a
> minimum Windows system for anything that won't run on OpenSUSE TW, and
> made a new partition for Linux, using a disk for GParted. Works fine.

Interesting, I'm wondering about the logic behind that -- was that an effort to 
segregate the user's "real" data (photos, videos, email, ...) on a separate 
partition?

Which manufacturer?  What is on /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4?  (Are /dev/sda1 and 
/dev/sda2 as described in the original email (Windows and Windows recovery 
partitions)?

I don't remember the correct terminology, but is the partioning done under whe 
old scheme (where there can be up to 4 primary partitions or 3 primary 
partions and then (hmm, iirc, up to 12?) extended partitions "under" /dev/sda, 
or under the new scheme (which I don't remember enough about to describe -- I 
vaguely think a lot more partitions and all of them primary?)?

Re: considering a new system and a sshd hybrid drive

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 29 December 2019 04:42:20 Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

> On 29.12.2019 12:37, shirish शिरीष wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Last year I had read some articles when I was looking to build a
> > system there seemed to problems with hybrid drives. Does anybody
> > know how things stand/look today and if anybody had any good/bad
> > experience with them ?  IIRC, the issues were more to do with the
> > firmware rather than the hardware, is it the same or have things
> > improved ? which package I should be looking at if I'm looking for
> > solutions ?
> >
> >
> > I am ok with using either a stable or an alpha/debian-installer
> > snapshot if people have had good experience.
> >
> > Just so people have an idea about what hybrid drives are all about,
> > here are couple of links
> >
> > https://www.seagate.com/in/en/do-more/how-to-choose-between-hdd-stor
> >age-for-your-laptop-master-dm/
> >
> > https://www.howtogeek.com/195262/hybrid-hard-drives-explained-why-yo
> >u-might-want-one-instead-of-an-ssd/
>
> I strongly suggest against hybrid drives. It's just added complexity
> and therefore more ways and parts to fail with time.
> If you considering to buy hybrid HDD, chances are high you simply want
> faster performance for your system. I don't see why to choose slightly
> better solution (hybrid) over fastest one (SSDs).
> For a system disk and\or laptop upgrade, I'd stick with plain
> MLC-based (2 bit) NAND 250GB+ SSD (or NVMe if your system allows it),
> because they have the best reliability+performance+price ratings. Try
> to avoid TLC-based SSDs because they have much lower reliability and
> performance in comparison to MLC-based SSDs, but also much cheaper.
> And completely avoid QLC-based SSDs, which are cheap, but slow and
> unreliable, similar to USB flash drives.
> Backup your data (obvious), monitor health of your SSDs using
> S.M.A.R.T. and you'll be just fine.
> Also, watch out for manufacturers who use dark marketing practices,
> offering MLC-based (3-bit) NAND in advertisement, which is non-sense,
> but in reality they should be called TLC-based (3-bit) NAND, and also
> avoid manufacturers who is hiding real TBW or DWPD ratings of their
> SSD products and offer only useless MTBF rating.
> By using TBW or DWPD ratings you can calculate how long SSD will last
> in your estimated work-load.

So how does one tell what sort of a drive I've bought half a dozen of for 
under a 50 dollar bill for a 240 gig with a sata interface actually is? 
ADATA's on sale usually.

I've so far used them for a couple years, either on a std sata cable, as 
the only drive in a cnc machine or on a usb-3 to sata adapter. I've had 
zero drive failures and one adapter cable failure, with the 2 latest 
installed as swap and work drives for compiling both kernels and makeing 
deb's of linuxcnc on an rpi4. Cuts a kernel build time by several hours, 
but I have noted they do get a lot slower if the file being copied is 
several gigabytes. Giving an 2Gb rpi4 a 10 Gb swap to play in is plumb 
amazing. Using 197 megs to build the rs-274 interpreter of linuxcnc 
there was no slowdown while doing it.

There may be better choices out there, and I'd like to be able to tell 
the difference, but these so far have been more that good enough 
for "the girls I go with".

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: considering a new system and a sshd hybrid drive

[shirish शिरीष]

at bottom :-

On 29/12/2019, shirish शिरीष  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I read Alexander's reply with interest at [1] .
>
> @Alexander, thank you for taking time to answer my question/s . Maybe
> you can CC me the next time :)
>
> What was also interesting in your answer was the use of dark marketing
> practises used by some manufacturers to disguise TLC (3-bit NAND)
> memory chips as MLC ones but haven't shared either literature or any
> tools to tell them apart.
>
> I do remember and have seen similar USB pendrives who claim to have
> 16/32 GB but when you use them, they don't work at least with USB 2.0
> . I have been told by some people that for such 'big drives' usually
> usb 3.0/3.1 is good but as don't have access to such ports it's
> neither here or there. Anyways, most places even airports usually have
> usb 2.0 ports rather than usb 3.0/3.1 but that's a different argument
> or point altogether (the whole usb 2.0/3.0/3.1 stuff.)
>
> You shared something called TBW or DWPD ratings for SSD but again
> didn't share anything about that. Any links or literature which will
> help me find a bit more about them and perhaps what you have used it
> for ?  My workload varies, sometimes it is compiling, sometimes it is
> running some tests, sometimes doing gaming and sometimes just browsing
> and using multimedia (movies etc.) . So my idea and stress would be
> general system improvements and response times. Also my budget is not
> that great, at the most I could afford is either a 500 GB to 1 TB
>
> I have also been reading about multi-actuator heads [2] in traditional
> HDD's but guessing they will be probably be priced and used by
> enterprise more rather than the enthusiast class at least in the
> beginning. I also have read blackbaze hdd failures to get some ideas
> about what's good or not even though their use-case scenario is far
> bigger than mine.[3]
>
> For e.g. for me the question would be how to deal with backups and
> crashes if a time comes, as checking 4 TB hdd's is also insane, at
> least in my puny setup.
>
> Looking forward to know more.
>
> 1. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/12/msg00726.html
> 2.
> https://blog.seagate.com/craftsman-ship/multi-actuator-technology-a-new-performance-breakthrough/
> 3. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/
>
> --
>   Regards,
>   Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
>   My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
> http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
>
> E493 D466 6D67 59F5 1FD0 930F 870E 9A5B 5869 609C
>


3. Meant https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-hard-drive-stats-q3-2019/

-- 
  Regards,
  Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com

E493 D466 6D67 59F5 1FD0 930F 870E 9A5B 5869 609C

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[David BERCOT]

Le 29/12/2019 à 11:59, JC.EtiembleG a écrit :
> Le 29/12/2019 à 10:40, David BERCOT a écrit :
> 
>> Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
>> traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?
> 
> C'est prévu par défaut ;)
> 
> aller sur le dossier xxx
>  - sélectionner les mails puis clic gauche Archiver ou Bouton Archiver

Euh, déjà, je n'ai pas (j'imagine que c'est plutôt clic droit ;-))
d'option "archiver".
Ensuite, même si je l'avais, ça ne me semble pas très pratique de faire
ça sur une centaine de dossiers...

Je cherche encore ;-)

David.

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[Erwan David]

Le 29/12/2019 à 12:03, David BERCOT a écrit :
> Le 29/12/2019 à 11:12, Erwan David a écrit :
>> Le 29/12/2019 à 10:40, David BERCOT a écrit :
>>> Bonjour,
>>>
>>> Même s'il ne s'agit pas d'une question "purement" Debian, je suppose
>>> qu'un certain nombre de personnes présentes sur cette ML utilisent
>>> Thunderbird.
>>>
>>> J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des
>>> messages datés de plus d'un an).
>>> J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais, sauf
>>> erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers IMAP vers
>>> des dossiers d'archive.
>>>
>>> Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement déplacés
>>> dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local (Thunderbird_Mails).
>>> Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local
>>> (Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les mails
>>> ad hoc.
>>>
>>> Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que je
>>> souhaite automatiser ce processus.
>>>
>>> Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
>>> traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?
>>>
>>> Merci d'avance et bonnes fêtes à tous !
>>>
>>> David.
>>
>> J'utilise Awsome AutoArchive pour ça, mais elle n'est pas compatible
>> avec TB 68, hélas...
> Alors j'ai justement installé cette extension tout à l'heure mais elle
> ne fonctionnait pas.
> Je pouvais bien sélectionner le dossier source mais je n'avais rien dans
> la liste de choix du dossier cible.
> Est-ce une problème ponctuel (que tu n'as pas) ?
>
> Merci.
>
> David.
>
>
Il y a de temps en temps des problèmes d'interface, oui. Et comme
l'extension en semble plus être maintenue...

Moi j'ai choisi d'avoir un serveur imap en local pour les archives, donc
je cherce plutôt dans les archiveurs d'imap à imap.

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[David BERCOT]

Le 29/12/2019 à 11:12, Erwan David a écrit :
> Le 29/12/2019 à 10:40, David BERCOT a écrit :
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Même s'il ne s'agit pas d'une question "purement" Debian, je suppose
>> qu'un certain nombre de personnes présentes sur cette ML utilisent
>> Thunderbird.
>>
>> J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des
>> messages datés de plus d'un an).
>> J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais, sauf
>> erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers IMAP vers
>> des dossiers d'archive.
>>
>> Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement déplacés
>> dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local (Thunderbird_Mails).
>> Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local
>> (Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les mails
>> ad hoc.
>>
>> Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que je
>> souhaite automatiser ce processus.
>>
>> Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
>> traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?
>>
>> Merci d'avance et bonnes fêtes à tous !
>>
>> David.
> 
> 
> J'utilise Awsome AutoArchive pour ça, mais elle n'est pas compatible
> avec TB 68, hélas...

Alors j'ai justement installé cette extension tout à l'heure mais elle
ne fonctionnait pas.
Je pouvais bien sélectionner le dossier source mais je n'avais rien dans
la liste de choix du dossier cible.
Est-ce une problème ponctuel (que tu n'as pas) ?

Merci.

David.

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[David BERCOT]

Le 29/12/2019 à 11:37, hamster a écrit :
> Le 29/12/2019 à 10:40, David BERCOT a écrit :
>> J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des
>> messages datés de plus d'un an).
>> J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais, sauf
>> erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers IMAP vers
>> des dossiers d'archive.
>>
>> Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement déplacés
>> dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local (Thunderbird_Mails).
>> Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local
>> (Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les mails
>> ad hoc.
>>
>> Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que je
>> souhaite automatiser ce processus.
>>
>> Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
>> traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?
> 
> Je ne comprend pas bien ce que tu veux faire. J'ai avant tout tendance a
> te conseiller de ne pas faire du travail inutile.
> 
> Tes messages sont soigneusement classés dans des dossiers et
> sous-dossiers locaux. C'est un très bon endroit pour les ranger et les
> conserver a long terme. Pour moi, ce classement est déjà un archivage
> tout a fait valable. Qu'est-ce que ca t'apporte de plus de les déplacer
> dans un autre dossier local qui a "archives" dans son nom ? Je ne doute
> pas que tu aies une raison qui t'appartiens pour faire ca, meme si je ne
> la saisis pas. Par curiosité, pourrais-tu la détailler ? En tous cas,
> pour thunderbird, que les messages soient dans un dossier local ou dans
> un autre, c'est bien du pareil au même.
> 
> Le seul cas ou je transfère mes messages dans des dossiers d'archives,
> c'est quand j'ai des dossiers qui contiennent beaucoup de volume. Soit
> un très grand nombre de messages (genre plusieurs dizaines de milliers)
> soit beaucoup de pièces jointes qui pèsent lourd. Le critère c'est quand
> le contenu du dossier se met a peser plusieurs centaines de Mo. Alors
> thunderbird peut avoir un peu de mal a manipuler des dossiers aussi
> lourds et on peut avoir des plantages dans les fichiers d'index.

Tu as bien ciblé mon problème ;-)
A titre d'information, dans mon dossier d'archive, j'ai actuellement
868.003 mails et, dans mon dossier "standard", 430.881 mails (car je
n'ai justement pas fait d'archivage depuis un bon moment).
Et le souci concerne justement (mais j'en ai quand même un certain
nombre) les dossiers contenant de "nombreux" messages.
Si je pouvais donc faire ces déplacements automatiquement, ça
m'arrangerait donc...

David.

P.S. : et je suis bien en maildir...

> Mais de tels gros dossiers sont rares. En général, quand on en a, c'est
> quelques uns pas plus. Aussi je trouve plus réaliste de faire un
> traitement particulier sur ces quelques dossiers plutot qu'un traitement
> systèmatique sur l'ensemble des dossiers. Ma stratégie c'est que pour
> chaque dossier super-lourd, je crée a l'interieur de ce dossier des sous
> dossiers qui ont pour nom des numéros d'année et une fois par an je
> sélectionne tous les messages de l'année précédente et je les déplace
> dans le sous dossier correspondant. Vu que je n'ai que quelques dossiers
> a traiter ainsi c'est tout a fait réaliste de le faire a la main.
> 
> Dans tous les cas, je te conseille vivement de stocker tes messages au
> format maildir plutot que mailbox, si tu veux faire du déplacement de
> messages en masse d'un dossier a un autre ca se passe nettement mieux.

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[JC.EtiembleG]

Le 29/12/2019 à 10:40, David BERCOT a écrit :

Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce traitement 
(manuellement ou automatiquement) ?


C'est prévu par défaut ;)

aller sur le dossier xxx
 - sélectionner les mails puis clic gauche Archiver ou Bouton Archiver

--
J-C Etiemble

Re: considering a new system and a sshd hybrid drive

[shirish शिरीष]

Hi all,

I read Alexander's reply with interest at [1] .

@Alexander, thank you for taking time to answer my question/s . Maybe
you can CC me the next time :)

What was also interesting in your answer was the use of dark marketing
practises used by some manufacturers to disguise TLC (3-bit NAND)
memory chips as MLC ones but haven't shared either literature or any
tools to tell them apart.

I do remember and have seen similar USB pendrives who claim to have
16/32 GB but when you use them, they don't work at least with USB 2.0
. I have been told by some people that for such 'big drives' usually
usb 3.0/3.1 is good but as don't have access to such ports it's
neither here or there. Anyways, most places even airports usually have
usb 2.0 ports rather than usb 3.0/3.1 but that's a different argument
or point altogether (the whole usb 2.0/3.0/3.1 stuff.)

You shared something called TBW or DWPD ratings for SSD but again
didn't share anything about that. Any links or literature which will
help me find a bit more about them and perhaps what you have used it
for ?  My workload varies, sometimes it is compiling, sometimes it is
running some tests, sometimes doing gaming and sometimes just browsing
and using multimedia (movies etc.) . So my idea and stress would be
general system improvements and response times. Also my budget is not
that great, at the most I could afford is either a 500 GB to 1 TB

I have also been reading about multi-actuator heads [2] in traditional
HDD's but guessing they will be probably be priced and used by
enterprise more rather than the enthusiast class at least in the
beginning. I also have read blackbaze hdd failures to get some ideas
about what's good or not even though their use-case scenario is far
bigger than mine.[3]

For e.g. for me the question would be how to deal with backups and
crashes if a time comes, as checking 4 TB hdd's is also insane, at
least in my puny setup.

Looking forward to know more.

1. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/12/msg00726.html
2. 
https://blog.seagate.com/craftsman-ship/multi-actuator-technology-a-new-performance-breakthrough/
3. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/

-- 
  Regards,
  Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com

E493 D466 6D67 59F5 1FD0 930F 870E 9A5B 5869 609C

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[hamster]

Le 29/12/2019 à 10:40, David BERCOT a écrit :
> J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des
> messages datés de plus d'un an).
> J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais, sauf
> erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers IMAP vers
> des dossiers d'archive.
>
> Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement déplacés
> dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local (Thunderbird_Mails).
> Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local
> (Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les mails
> ad hoc.
>
> Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que je
> souhaite automatiser ce processus.
>
> Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
> traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?

Je ne comprend pas bien ce que tu veux faire. J'ai avant tout tendance a
te conseiller de ne pas faire du travail inutile.

Tes messages sont soigneusement classés dans des dossiers et
sous-dossiers locaux. C'est un très bon endroit pour les ranger et les
conserver a long terme. Pour moi, ce classement est déjà un archivage
tout a fait valable. Qu'est-ce que ca t'apporte de plus de les déplacer
dans un autre dossier local qui a "archives" dans son nom ? Je ne doute
pas que tu aies une raison qui t'appartiens pour faire ca, meme si je ne
la saisis pas. Par curiosité, pourrais-tu la détailler ? En tous cas,
pour thunderbird, que les messages soient dans un dossier local ou dans
un autre, c'est bien du pareil au même.

Le seul cas ou je transfère mes messages dans des dossiers d'archives,
c'est quand j'ai des dossiers qui contiennent beaucoup de volume. Soit
un très grand nombre de messages (genre plusieurs dizaines de milliers)
soit beaucoup de pièces jointes qui pèsent lourd. Le critère c'est quand
le contenu du dossier se met a peser plusieurs centaines de Mo. Alors
thunderbird peut avoir un peu de mal a manipuler des dossiers aussi
lourds et on peut avoir des plantages dans les fichiers d'index.

Mais de tels gros dossiers sont rares. En général, quand on en a, c'est
quelques uns pas plus. Aussi je trouve plus réaliste de faire un
traitement particulier sur ces quelques dossiers plutot qu'un traitement
systèmatique sur l'ensemble des dossiers. Ma stratégie c'est que pour
chaque dossier super-lourd, je crée a l'interieur de ce dossier des sous
dossiers qui ont pour nom des numéros d'année et une fois par an je
sélectionne tous les messages de l'année précédente et je les déplace
dans le sous dossier correspondant. Vu que je n'ai que quelques dossiers
a traiter ainsi c'est tout a fait réaliste de le faire a la main.

Dans tous les cas, je te conseille vivement de stocker tes messages au
format maildir plutot que mailbox, si tu veux faire du déplacement de
messages en masse d'un dossier a un autre ca se passe nettement mieux.

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[G2PC]

> J'utilise Awsome AutoArchive pour ça, mais elle n'est pas compatible
> avec TB 68, hélas...

Dans le cadre de la sauvegarde, j'ai découvert cela.
Les données peuvent être stockées ailleurs que sur thunderbird, ça rend
la recherche directe impossible, mais, ça permet d'archiver le contenu
sur un autre support.

Thunderbird : ~/.thunderbird (Copier le dossier de profil et le fichier 
profiles.ini)
Utiliser Email adress crawler pour récupérer les emails d'un dossier : 
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/email-address-crawler/
Utiliser Email adress crawler pour récupérer les emails d'un dossier : 
https://freeshell.de/~kaosmos/emailcrawler-5.1.2.xpi

Utiliser Import Export Tools pour exporter des dossiers de Thunderbird : 
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/importexporttools/

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[Erwan David]

Le 29/12/2019 à 10:40, David BERCOT a écrit :
> Bonjour,
>
> Même s'il ne s'agit pas d'une question "purement" Debian, je suppose
> qu'un certain nombre de personnes présentes sur cette ML utilisent
> Thunderbird.
>
> J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des
> messages datés de plus d'un an).
> J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais, sauf
> erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers IMAP vers
> des dossiers d'archive.
>
> Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement déplacés
> dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local (Thunderbird_Mails).
> Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local
> (Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les mails
> ad hoc.
>
> Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que je
> souhaite automatiser ce processus.
>
> Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
> traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?
>
> Merci d'avance et bonnes fêtes à tous !
>
> David.


J'utilise Awsome AutoArchive pour ça, mais elle n'est pas compatible
avec TB 68, hélas...

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[David BERCOT]

Le 29/12/2019 à 10:46, Basile Starynkevitch a écrit :
> 
> On 12/29/19 10:40 AM, David BERCOT wrote:
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Même s'il ne s'agit pas d'une question "purement" Debian, je suppose
>> qu'un certain nombre de personnes présentes sur cette ML utilisent
>> Thunderbird.
>>
>> J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des
>> messages datés de plus d'un an).
>> J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais, sauf
>> erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers IMAP vers
>> des dossiers d'archive.
>>
>> Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement déplacés
>> dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local (Thunderbird_Mails).
>> Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local
>> (Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les mails
>> ad hoc.
>>
>> Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que je
>> souhaite automatiser ce processus.
>>
>> Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
>> traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?
> 
> 
> Je pense qu'on pourait utiliser soit les filtres de thunderbird, soit
> les extensions de thunderbird.
> 
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-using-filters
> 
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Thunderbird/Thunderbird_extensions/Building_a_Thunderbird_extension
> 
> Mais ça peut être du boulot.

Comme tu dis ;-)
Je me suis posé la question à un moment mais j'ai vraiment beaucoup trop
de sous-répertoires.
Et il faudrait, d'autre part, que je pense, à la création de chaque
nouveau sous-répertoire, une nouvelle règle pour son archivage...

> Personnellement, je songeais à développer une extension de thunderbird
> qui embarque Guile , mais la
> motivation me manque.

Si jamais la motivation te vient, n'hésite pas ;-)

> Autre approche: installer un MTA (exim, postfix) localement sur Debian,
> avec procmail.

Hum, dans mon cas, je ne sais pas si ça résoudra mes problèmes...

Merci.

David.

> -- 
> Basile STARYNKEVITCH   == http://starynkevitch.net/Basile
> opinions are mine only - les opinions sont seulement miennes
> Bourg La Reine, France; 
> (mobile phone: cf my web page / voir ma page web..

Re: Archivage avec Thunderbird

[Basile Starynkevitch]

On 12/29/19 10:40 AM, David BERCOT wrote:

Bonjour,

Même s'il ne s'agit pas d'une question "purement" Debian, je suppose 
qu'un certain nombre de personnes présentes sur cette ML utilisent 
Thunderbird.


J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des 
messages datés de plus d'un an).
J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais, sauf 
erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers IMAP vers 
des dossiers d'archive.


Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement déplacés 
dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local (Thunderbird_Mails).
Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local 
(Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les mails 
ad hoc.


Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que je 
souhaite automatiser ce processus.


Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce 
traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?



Je pense qu'on pourait utiliser soit les filtres de thunderbird, soit 
les extensions de thunderbird.


https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-using-filters

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Thunderbird/Thunderbird_extensions/Building_a_Thunderbird_extension

Mais ça peut être du boulot.


Personnellement, je songeais à développer une extension de thunderbird 
qui embarque Guile , mais la 
motivation me manque.



Autre approche: installer un MTA (exim, postfix) localement sur Debian, 
avec procmail.



--
Basile STARYNKEVITCH   == http://starynkevitch.net/Basile
opinions are mine only - les opinions sont seulement miennes
Bourg La Reine, France; 
(mobile phone: cf my web page / voir ma page web...)

Re: considering a new system and a sshd hybrid drive

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 29.12.2019 12:37, shirish शिरीष wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Last year I had read some articles when I was looking to build a
> system there seemed to problems with hybrid drives. Does anybody know
> how things stand/look today and if anybody had any good/bad experience
> with them ?  IIRC, the issues were more to do with the firmware rather
> than the hardware, is it the same or have things improved ? which
> package I should be looking at if I'm looking for solutions ?
>
>
> I am ok with using either a stable or an alpha/debian-installer
> snapshot if people have had good experience.
>
> Just so people have an idea about what hybrid drives are all about,
> here are couple of links
>
> https://www.seagate.com/in/en/do-more/how-to-choose-between-hdd-storage-for-your-laptop-master-dm/
>
> https://www.howtogeek.com/195262/hybrid-hard-drives-explained-why-you-might-want-one-instead-of-an-ssd/
>
I strongly suggest against hybrid drives. It's just added complexity and
therefore more ways and parts to fail with time.
If you considering to buy hybrid HDD, chances are high you simply want
faster performance for your system. I don't see why to choose slightly
better solution (hybrid) over fastest one (SSDs).
For a system disk and\or laptop upgrade, I'd stick with plain MLC-based
(2 bit) NAND 250GB+ SSD (or NVMe if your system allows it), because they
have the best reliability+performance+price ratings. Try to avoid
TLC-based SSDs because they have much lower reliability and performance
in comparison to MLC-based SSDs, but also much cheaper. And completely
avoid QLC-based SSDs, which are cheap, but slow and unreliable, similar
to USB flash drives.
Backup your data (obvious), monitor health of your SSDs using S.M.A.R.T.
and you'll be just fine.
Also, watch out for manufacturers who use dark marketing practices,
offering MLC-based (3-bit) NAND in advertisement, which is non-sense,
but in reality they should be called TLC-based (3-bit) NAND, and also
avoid manufacturers who is hiding real TBW or DWPD ratings of their SSD
products and offer only useless MTBF rating.
By using TBW or DWPD ratings you can calculate how long SSD will last in
your estimated work-load.


-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Archivage avec Thunderbird

[David BERCOT]

  
  
Bonjour,
  
  Même s'il ne s'agit pas d'une question "purement" Debian, je
  suppose qu'un certain nombre de personnes présentes sur cette ML
  utilisent Thunderbird.
  
  J'aimerais donc archiver mes mails (sur la base, par exemple, des
  messages datés de plus d'un an).
  J'ai regardé les extensions et autres solutions proposées mais,
  sauf erreur de ma part, celles-ci sont prévues pour des dossiers
  IMAP vers des dossiers d'archive.
  
  Me concernant, les mails, à réception, sont automatiquement
  déplacés dans un sous-répertoire d'un dossier local
  (Thunderbird_Mails).
  Et j'ai donc, en complément, un autre dossier local
  (Thunderbird_Archives) vers lequel je souhaiterais déplacer les
  mails ad hoc.
  
  Maintenant, mon arborescence est suffisamment compliquée pour que
  je souhaite automatiser ce processus.
  
  Avez-vous des solutions ou conseils pour pouvoir réaliser ce
  traitement (manuellement ou automatiquement) ?
  
  Merci d'avance et bonnes fêtes à tous !
  
  David.

  

Re: INQUIRY

[Curt]

On 2019-12-28,   wrote:
>
> Hello Debian , I'm getting error while installing grub in Debian.
> The error is "unable install grub in dummy"
> My intention is to dual boot debian and windows.

No, I believe the error is actually "unable to install grub in dummy."

Quotation marks denote a verbatim transcription; omitting a word, no
matter how trivial, can (and has, apparently, in this very thread) send
people on chases in which the goose is sort of wild.

Having said that, your post is otherwise so extremely thin on details
that, having stuck the veritable error message into a search engine (in
quotes!), I can only wildly guess your error is related to some UEFI
thing, of which I know exactly nothing.



> Please help
> Thank
>
>

-- 
"J'ai pour me guérir du jugement des autres toute la distance qui me sépare de
moi." Antonin Artaud

Re: systemdq

[tomas]

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 08:38:25PM -0500, chris wrote:
> dont worry the resistance to systemd is still strong not everyone drinks
> the kool aid

What I don't understand is why you have to put this under such
antagonistic terms.

Cheers
-- tomás


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature