Upgrade from buster........

[Charlie]

From my keyboard:

Attempted to upgrade my Buster system to Bullseye, on an
older Dell lappy. Which I thought would be quick and seamless
as it was from the previous version of Debian. Stretch I think?

So did an apt update, received the messages that Buster was old-stable
etc.; and then apt upgrade to make certain everything was
current. But didn't upgrade because of failure running
/usr/sbin/apt-listbugs apt

So did apt-get update --allow-releaseinfo-change

Nothing changed. Still the list bugs error and went no further.

So didn't upgrade. I suppose I have to purge list-bugs and it may work,
however, didn't have time, will fool around with it when I do.

Just thought to mention it here.

I don't mind installing bullseye from scratch if need be, as has been
done and preferred many previous Debian distro's before.

Charlie

East Gippsland Wildlife Rehabilitators Inc..
   http://www.egwildlife.com.au/

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524

***

The definition of stupid is doing something the same way twice
and expecting different results. Albert Einstein

***
Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: how to to start X Window in debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso

[lou]

On 8/14/21 11:32 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:


The "-standard" in the image name means that this is a "Standard" Debian
installation, with no Desktop Environment.  It probably doesn't have an X
server either, or X fonts, or any of the other things you would need in
order to actually run an X session locally.

A quick web search found a list of the packages on this image:

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.packages

As I expected, there is no X server, even though there are a few X
client programs.  There's no way you'll be able to start an X session
from this image.  It's meant for console/server use only.



Thank Greg Wooledge!

then these X apps are to be run remotely

Re: how to to start X Window in debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 11:03:37PM -0400, lou wrote:
> i've copied debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso  to USB stick and run it
> 
> X app are included, but how to start X Window?

The "-standard" in the image name means that this is a "Standard" Debian
installation, with no Desktop Environment.  It probably doesn't have an X
server either, or X fonts, or any of the other things you would need in
order to actually run an X session locally.

A quick web search found a list of the packages on this image:

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.packages

As I expected, there is no X server, even though there are a few X
client programs.  There's no way you'll be able to start an X session
from this image.  It's meant for console/server use only.

Re: how to to start X Window in debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 15/8/21 11:22 am, lou wrote:


and what is password for root?


You should be able to do

sudo passwd root

and set your own password


--
Jeremy



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: how to to start X Window in debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso

[lou]

On 8/14/21 11:08 PM, Weaver wrote:


At the prompt, type `startx'.
Depending on permissions, you may need to become root.
Cheers!

Harry.



startx don't seem to be included in ISO image

and what is password for root?

Re: how to to start X Window in debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso

[Weaver]

On 15-08-2021 13:03, lou wrote:
> i've copied debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso  to USB stick and run it
> 
> X app are included, but how to start X Window?

At the prompt, type `startx'.
Depending on permissions, you may need to become root.
Cheers!

Harry.

-- 
`Unthinking respect for authority is 
the greatest enemy of truth'.
-- Albert Einstein

how to to start X Window in debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso

[lou]

i've copied debian-live-11.0.0-i386-standard.iso  to USB stick and run it

X app are included, but how to start X Window?

Re: Internal server error 500 for bugs.debian.org pkgreport of apt-listchanges

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 8/14/21, Cindy Sue Causey  wrote:
> On 8/14/21, Brian Thompson  wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm getting a 500 error when trying to access the apt-listchanges, apt,
>> and apt-listdifferences pkgreports on bugs.debian.org. It looks like
>> there is a problem with all of the pkgreports.
>>
>> Here is one of the URLs:
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=yes=apt
>>
>> Was there some maintenance that I am unaware of?
>
> Would Developers *very recently* flipping the release switch for
> buster/bullseye/bookworm affect that?
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/08/msg1.html
>
> Maybe the site wide adjustment hasn't caught up yet or something?


Mappings would be the password I was looking for a few minutes ago:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2021/08/msg2.html

In full, Jonathan says, "Debian 11, codename bullseye, was release on
14th August 2021 and synced to mirrors around 21:05 UTC. You should
expect the mappings for stable and
oldstable to update on your local mirrors very shortly."

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

Re: Internal server error 500 for bugs.debian.org pkgreport of apt-listchanges

[Brian Thompson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Sat, 2021-08-14 at 22:42 -0400, Cindy Sue Causey wrote:
> Would Developers *very recently* flipping the release switch for
> buster/bullseye/bookworm affect that?
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/08/msg1.html
> 
> Maybe the site wide adjustment hasn't caught up yet or something?
> 
> Or not... :)
> 
> Cindy :)

That's quite possible. I wanted to make others aware in case it is a
potential problem. If this is typical of previous releases, please
ignore.
- -- 
Best regards,

Brian T.
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-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Internal server error 500 for bugs.debian.org pkgreport of apt-listchanges

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 8/14/21, Brian Thompson  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm getting a 500 error when trying to access the apt-listchanges, apt,
> and apt-listdifferences pkgreports on bugs.debian.org. It looks like
> there is a problem with all of the pkgreports.
>
> Here is one of the URLs:
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=yes=apt
>
> Was there some maintenance that I am unaware of?

Would Developers *very recently* flipping the release switch for
buster/bullseye/bookworm affect that?

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/08/msg1.html

Maybe the site wide adjustment hasn't caught up yet or something?

Or not... :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

Internal server error 500 for bugs.debian.org pkgreport of apt-listchanges

[Brian Thompson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hello everyone,

I'm getting a 500 error when trying to access the apt-listchanges, apt,
and apt-listdifferences pkgreports on bugs.debian.org. It looks like
there is a problem with all of the pkgreports.

Here is one of the URLs: 
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=yes=apt

Was there some maintenance that I am unaware of?
- -- 
Best regards,

Brian T.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

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-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: password set at installation of debian-10.10.0-amd64 not recognized

[Stefan Monnier]

> Nevertheless there are rare cases only root can make changes.

You mean cases where `sudo zsh -l` is not an option?


Stefan

debian11 early - apt-get update - At least one invalid signature was encountered

[raf]

Hi,

Firstly, many thanks for debian-11. I've been looking
forward to the newer bind9 and its dnssec-policy
finally making it trivial to implement DNSSEC on a
stable system. Yay!

My problem: A day or two ago, I tried to upgrade to
debian-11 on a little VM on my laptop and I've run into
a problem.

I know it wasn't official yet, but I thought I could
get away with it. And I wanted to have done it once
before upgrading a more important VM. But I would like
to get this VM unbroken as well.

I wasn't as careful as usual with it (I didn't do the
backups mentioned in Release Notes section 4.1.1) but
I'm not sure if that would have helped.

I added the new the bullseye details to
/etc/apt/sources.list but I didn't comment out the
existing buster details at the same time. I think that
might have been my mistake. Then, I did apt update and
got GPG invalid signature errors.

And I still get them when I only have the buster
details in sources.list and when I only have the
bullseye details there. But before, everything
was fine.

With buster only:

  deb http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ buster main
  deb-src http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ buster main
  deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main
  deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main
  deb http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main
  deb-src http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main

apt update looks like this:

  Err:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease
At least one invalid signature was encountered.
  Get:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian buster InRelease [122 kB]
  Get:3 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease [51.9 kB]
  Err:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
At least one invalid signature was encountered.
  Err:3 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
At least one invalid signature was encountered.
  Fetched 174 kB in 0s (452 kB/s)
  Reading package lists... Done
  Building dependency tree
  Reading state information... Done
  2 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
  W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not 
updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error: 
http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease: At least 
one invalid signature was encountered.
  W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not 
updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error: 
http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian buster InRelease: At least one invalid 
signature was encountered.
  W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not 
updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error: 
http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease: At least one invalid 
signature was encountered.
  W: Failed to fetch http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/InRelease  At 
least one invalid signature was encountered.
  W: Failed to fetch 
http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/InRelease  At 
least one invalid signature was encountered.
  W: Failed to fetch 
http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/dists/buster-updates/InRelease  At least one 
invalid signature was encountered.
  W: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones 
used instead.

With bullseye only:

  deb http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free
  deb-src http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free
  deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main contrib 
non-free
  deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main 
contrib non-free
  deb http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib non-free
  deb-src http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib 
non-free

apt update looks like:

  Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security InRelease 
[44.1 kB]
  Err:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security InRelease
At least one invalid signature was encountered.
  Get:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian bullseye InRelease [113 kB]
  Get:3 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates InRelease [40.1 kB]
  Err:2 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian bullseye InRelease
At least one invalid signature was encountered.
  Err:3 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates InRelease
At least one invalid signature was encountered.
  Fetched 153 kB in 0s (448 kB/s)
  Reading package lists... Done
  Building dependency tree
  Reading state information... Done
  1416 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
  W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not 
updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error: 
http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security InRelease: At 
least one invalid signature was 

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-14 9:08 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 08:52:19PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>>  I got a series of line saying N and one saying E:
>>
>> N: Repository 'http://security.debian.org buster/updates InRelease'
>> changed its 'Suite' value from 'stable' to 'oldstable'
>> N: Repository 'http://security.debian.org stretch/updates InRelease'
>> changed its 'Suite' value from 'oldstable' to 'oldoldstable'
>> E: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease' changed
>> its 'Codename' value from 'bullseye' to 'bookworm'
> 
> Fascinating.
> 
>> Will be fixed in a dirty way (remove the offending non needed repository)
> 
> Why not simply "apt update"?
> 
I did apt update when I finally "catched" that it was apt-get update
that didn't allow interactive questions.

So doing *apt update* fixed it (saying Y helped too).

> Also, um... if you weren't planning to track bookworm-as-testing, you
> really should've removed that testing line before the bullseye release.
> 

That what I said when I talked about dirty way, removing *testing* but
*apt update* worked.
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 08:52:19PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>  I got a series of line saying N and one saying E:
> 
> N: Repository 'http://security.debian.org buster/updates InRelease'
> changed its 'Suite' value from 'stable' to 'oldstable'
> N: Repository 'http://security.debian.org stretch/updates InRelease'
> changed its 'Suite' value from 'oldstable' to 'oldoldstable'
> E: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease' changed
> its 'Codename' value from 'bullseye' to 'bookworm'

Fascinating.

> Will be fixed in a dirty way (remove the offending non needed repository)

Why not simply "apt update"?

Also, um... if you weren't planning to track bookworm-as-testing, you
really should've removed that testing line before the bullseye release.

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-14 7:45 p.m., The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-08-14 at 19:41, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:26:44PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>>> The warnings I'd be OK with; I might even be OK with the errors,
>>> except for the fact that they point not to anything with useful
>>> information but to a place which doesn't actually tell you anything
>>> helpful.
>>
>> Yeah, the DD who replied with "If you run it interactive, you get
>> asked directly" clearly had no idea
> 
> If I remember that exchange correctly, that seems to have been a case of
> confusion about which front-end was being used. If you run 'apt'
> interactively rather than for scripting purposes, I understand that you
> *do* get asked directly; if you run 'apt-get', however, you don't.
> 
Using *apt update* instead of *apt-get update* solved my problem
(without changing my sources.list files).

>> In any case, it sounds like your machines have some unique setup
>> that's triggering the symptoms in cases where other people won't
>> experience them.  For now, I'm going to assume that the problem is
>> unique to you, unless/until someone else reports it.
> 
> I'd be glad of that, but given the number of other people reporting the
> problem in that collection of bug reports, don't expect it to be the
> case; that was part of what led me to report the solution here in the
> form of a PSA, rather than bringing it up in some other way or just not
> mentioning it at all.
> 
>> Also, the fact that people apparently can't manage to find the
>> NewInBuster page that describes the symptom and its workaround (not
>> even with Google?) is sad.
> 
> I didn't even look this time, since I'd had to look so hard last time
> and found nothing anyway. I just ran 'reportbug apt', filtered the list
> of bugs for mention of 'secure', and looked at the first bug report -
> out of, IIRC, three or four - whose title seemed relevant.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-14 7:06 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 06:26:07PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>> I had enough trouble with this at the last Debian release,
> 
> ... but not this time, right?
> 
>> For anyone who uses 'apt-get update' - and, I suspect, any other tool
>> than 'apt' itself - to update the list of available packages from the
>> new release, you're at least moderately likely to see the update attempt
>> fail with error messages like the following:
>>
>>> E: Repository 'http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable InRelease' changed 
>>> its 'Codename' value from 'buster' to 'bullseye'
> 
> You copied this from the NewInBuster wiki most likely.  That's where I
> put it, when I ran into this issue two years ago, and documented it
> there.  It's even the same mirror that I use (which is no longer the
> default, hence it standing out).
> 
> The issue did not happen this time around.  Instead of getting an "E:"
> line (error), you only get a bunch of N: (warning) lines.
> 
> You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist any more.
> 

Running Buster and having a the bullseye repository on my system (source
one only).
I kept source package repository for stretch, buster, bullseye and testing.

Seem to be testing changed from bullseye to bookwork that is complaining.

 I got a series of line saying N and one saying E:

N: Repository 'http://security.debian.org buster/updates InRelease'
changed its 'Suite' value from 'stable' to 'oldstable'
N: Repository 'http://security.debian.org stretch/updates InRelease'
changed its 'Suite' value from 'oldstable' to 'oldoldstable'
E: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian testing InRelease' changed
its 'Codename' value from 'bullseye' to 'bookworm'
N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository
can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details.
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye InRelease' changed
its 'Version' value from '' to '11.0'
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye InRelease' changed
its 'Suite' value from 'testing' to 'stable'
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates InRelease'
changed its 'Version' value from '' to '11-updates'
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates InRelease'
changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing-updates' to 'stable-updates'
N: Repository 'https://www.deb-multimedia.org buster InRelease' changed
its 'Suite' value from 'stable' to 'oldstable'
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster InRelease' changed
its 'Suite' value from 'stable' to 'oldstable'
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease'
changed its 'Suite' value from 'stable-updates' to 'oldstable-updates'
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-updates InRelease'
changed its 'Suite' value from 'oldstable-updates' to 'oldoldstable-updates'
N: Repository 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch Release' changed its
'Suite' value from 'oldstable' to 'oldoldstable'

Will be fixed in a dirty way (remove the offending non needed repository)

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Weaver]

On 15-08-2021 10:02, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-08-14 at 19:49, Brad Rogers wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 19:28:32 -0400 Greg Wooledge 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Greg,
>>
>>> It will be interesting to see if anyone else reports the same
>>> problem you're seeing.
>>
>> I experienced it here.
>>
>> I usually use Synaptic to perform updates.  Synaptic put up the
>> warning message about the codename change, but I could find no way to
>> explicitly accept the changes in Synaptic.  As The Wanderer
>> suggested, I ran 'apt update' from a command line and followed the
>> prompts.
>>
>> I will add that my sources lists refer only to 'testing', and do not
>> use version codenames at all.
> 
> As do I. It may be possible that this is what makes the difference.

I always use distribution and never versioning, but have never
experienced this problem.
Cheers!

Harry

-- 
`Unthinking respect for authority is 
the greatest enemy of truth'.
-- Albert Einstein

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-08-14 at 19:49, Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 19:28:32 -0400 Greg Wooledge 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Greg,
> 
>> It will be interesting to see if anyone else reports the same
>> problem you're seeing.
> 
> I experienced it here.
> 
> I usually use Synaptic to perform updates.  Synaptic put up the
> warning message about the codename change, but I could find no way to
> explicitly accept the changes in Synaptic.  As The Wanderer
> suggested, I ran 'apt update' from a command line and followed the
> prompts.
> 
> I will add that my sources lists refer only to 'testing', and do not
> use version codenames at all.

As do I. It may be possible that this is what makes the difference.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Brad Rogers]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 19:28:32 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

Hello Greg,

>It will be interesting to see if anyone else reports the same problem
>you're seeing.

I experienced it here.

I usually use Synaptic to perform updates.  Synaptic put up the warning
message about the codename change, but I could find no way to explicitly
accept the changes in Synaptic.  As The Wanderer suggested, I ran 'apt
update' from a command line and followed the prompts.

I will add that my sources lists refer only to 'testing', and do not use
version codenames at all.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
But they didn't tell him the first two didn't count
Tin Soldiers - Stiff Little Fingers


pgpRWfEt8GZ6y.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian 11 is released!

[Charlie]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 22:54:12 +0100 piorunz Informed me about
Debian 11 is released!

> Thanks all Debian devs and users, after over 2 years, new version is 
> here! I am running it already on two computers and couldn't be more 
> happier :)
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> With kindest regards, piorunz.
> 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
> ⠈⠳⣄

+1
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524

***

Every valuable human being must be a radical and a rebel, for
what he must aim at is to make things better than they are.” --
Niels Bohr

***
Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-08-14 at 19:41, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:26:44PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:

>> The warnings I'd be OK with; I might even be OK with the errors,
>> except for the fact that they point not to anything with useful
>> information but to a place which doesn't actually tell you anything
>> helpful.
> 
> Yeah, the DD who replied with "If you run it interactive, you get
> asked directly" clearly had no idea

If I remember that exchange correctly, that seems to have been a case of
confusion about which front-end was being used. If you run 'apt'
interactively rather than for scripting purposes, I understand that you
*do* get asked directly; if you run 'apt-get', however, you don't.

> In any case, it sounds like your machines have some unique setup
> that's triggering the symptoms in cases where other people won't
> experience them.  For now, I'm going to assume that the problem is
> unique to you, unless/until someone else reports it.

I'd be glad of that, but given the number of other people reporting the
problem in that collection of bug reports, don't expect it to be the
case; that was part of what led me to report the solution here in the
form of a PSA, rather than bringing it up in some other way or just not
mentioning it at all.

> Also, the fact that people apparently can't manage to find the
> NewInBuster page that describes the symptom and its workaround (not
> even with Google?) is sad.

I didn't even look this time, since I'd had to look so hard last time
and found nothing anyway. I just ran 'reportbug apt', filtered the list
of bugs for mention of 'secure', and looked at the first bug report -
out of, IIRC, three or four - whose title seemed relevant.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:26:44PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> See bug #879786, and the various bugs that have been merged into it
> (listed near the very bottom, IIRC).

Man, some people have the most *bizarre* setups.  And then when someone
points it out, they act all confused. :-/

Most of the separate instances in that bug report have something wrong
with them, like trying to use testing/updates for security after the
URL changed, or using Ubuntu repositories, so it's a bit hard to see
what's actually happening.

> The warnings I'd be OK with; I might even be OK with the errors, except
> for the fact that they point not to anything with useful information but
> to a place which doesn't actually tell you anything helpful.

Yeah, the DD who replied with "If you run it interactive, you get asked
directly" clearly had no idea

In any case, it sounds like your machines have some unique setup that's
triggering the symptoms in cases where other people won't experience
them.  For now, I'm going to assume that the problem is unique to you,
unless/until someone else reports it.

Also, the fact that people apparently can't manage to find the NewInBuster
page that describes the symptom and its workaround (not even with Google?)
is sad.

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:12:30PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> Maybe somehow I'm running an older apt-get version than what has the
> fix(es)? But as far as I know that's shipped in the 'apt' package, and I
> have that at version 2.2.4, which is what's currently in both stable and
> testing (unsurprising given that they should currently be nearly identical).

apt version 2.2.4 here.  It will be interesting to see if anyone else
reports the same problem you're seeing.  And, I suppose, to see whether I
experience the same problem myself when I do a straight buster-to-bullseye
upgrade with no testing in the middle.

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-08-14 at 19:15, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 06:26:07PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> > E: Repository 'http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable InRelease' changed 
>> > its 'Codename' value from 'buster' to 'bullseye'
>> > N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can 
>> > be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details.
>> 
>> If you used the label 'buster' instead of 'stable' in your sources.list,
>> you may see complaints about a change in the 'Suite' value instead.
> 
> Hmm... after reading your message again, I think we're talking about
> two separate problems that have very similar symptoms.
> 
> I've never actually *heard* of your problem before, nor have I seen it.

See bug #879786, and the various bugs that have been merged into it
(listed near the very bottom, IIRC).

> In all cases, whenever I've had a machine that ran *only* stable
> releases, this symptom has never happened to me.  All
> stable-to-stable release upgrades have gone smoothly for me, at least
> as far as the "apt-get update" step goes.  I'm not sure what you're
> doing differently, or why it's not working properly for you.

Some of the discussion in the bug report seems to imply that this is
only expected to happen if you have a repository which has some aspect
which isn't properly configured as trusted on your system. I'm guessing
that the exact details of how I access the same repositories which would
normally be considered trusted makes them not be so.

> What *I* saw (and put on the wiki), was that a machine which ran
> buster *as testing* (i.e. was upgraded from stretch to testing, prior
> to buster's release) ran into the problem you describe, except that
> it said the suite name changed from "testing" to "stable".

That sounds like the situation I'm in; I typically dist-upgrade against
testing once a day during the weeks after a new release, and then about
once a week after that, till it's time to repeat the cycle with the next
release.

I've been running testing (specified by that name in sources.list)
for... long enough that I don't actually remember when I started; it was
probably over a decade ago.

That said, I *did* somewhat-recently (around the end of June, I think)
install a new machine to the same specifications as the old one - using,
IIRC, the then-release-candidate installer version - and immediately
switch it to target testing, using the same sources.list as on the
previous machine. I never ran this '--allow-releaseinfo-change' on the
new machine, although I had done it on the old; maybe somehow there's a
flag involved other than just the release info itself being different,
which hadn't been set previously on this new machine?

> When I upgraded my buster-to-testing-to-bullseye machine today, I did
> not see this same problem.  I got a bunch of warnings, and I
> *thought* I was seeing the same problem as last time, but it turns
> out I didn't actually have to run "apt update".  The "apt-get update"
> had worked in the first place.

The warnings I'd be OK with; I might even be OK with the errors, except
for the fact that they point not to anything with useful information but
to a place which doesn't actually tell you anything helpful.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian 11 is released!

[lou]

Thank piorunz! i'll install it today


PS: www.debian.org hasn't published the news, 1st item in Project News 
is bad news (mourning)

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 06:26:07PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> > E: Repository 'http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable InRelease' changed 
> > its 'Codename' value from 'buster' to 'bullseye'
> > N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can 
> > be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details.
> 
> If you used the label 'buster' instead of 'stable' in your sources.list,
> you may see complaints about a change in the 'Suite' value instead.

Hmm... after reading your message again, I think we're talking about
two separate problems that have very similar symptoms.

I've never actually *heard* of your problem before, nor have I seen it.

In all cases, whenever I've had a machine that ran *only* stable releases,
this symptom has never happened to me.  All stable-to-stable release
upgrades have gone smoothly for me, at least as far as the "apt-get update"
step goes.  I'm not sure what you're doing differently, or why it's not
working properly for you.

What *I* saw (and put on the wiki), was that a machine which ran buster
*as testing* (i.e. was upgraded from stretch to testing, prior to
buster's release) ran into the problem you describe, except that it
said the suite name changed from "testing" to "stable".

When I upgraded my buster-to-testing-to-bullseye machine today, I did not
see this same problem.  I got a bunch of warnings, and I *thought* I was
seeing the same problem as last time, but it turns out I didn't actually
have to run "apt update".  The "apt-get update" had worked in the first
place.

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-08-14 at 19:06, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 06:26:07PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> I had enough trouble with this at the last Debian release,
> 
> ... but not this time, right?

Yes, this time; in fact...

>> For anyone who uses 'apt-get update' - and, I suspect, any other tool
>> than 'apt' itself - to update the list of available packages from the
>> new release, you're at least moderately likely to see the update attempt
>> fail with error messages like the following:
>> 
>> > E: Repository 'http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable InRelease' changed 
>> > its 'Codename' value from 'buster' to 'bullseye'
> 
> You copied this from the NewInBuster wiki most likely.

...nope, I copied it from a terminal on my computer, where it had just
been output on my initial 'apt-get update' attempt.

> That's where I put it, when I ran into this issue two years ago, and
> documented it there.  It's even the same mirror that I use (which is
> no longer the default, hence it standing out).
> 
> The issue did not happen this time around.  Instead of getting an
> "E:" line (error), you only get a bunch of N: (warning) lines.
> 
> You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist any
> more.

I would love for that to have been the case, but my experience does not
reflect it being so.

Maybe somehow I'm running an older apt-get version than what has the
fix(es)? But as far as I know that's shipped in the 'apt' package, and I
have that at version 2.2.4, which is what's currently in both stable and
testing (unsurprising given that they should currently be nearly identical).

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 06:26:07PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> I had enough trouble with this at the last Debian release,

... but not this time, right?

> For anyone who uses 'apt-get update' - and, I suspect, any other tool
> than 'apt' itself - to update the list of available packages from the
> new release, you're at least moderately likely to see the update attempt
> fail with error messages like the following:
> 
> > E: Repository 'http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable InRelease' changed 
> > its 'Codename' value from 'buster' to 'bullseye'

You copied this from the NewInBuster wiki most likely.  That's where I
put it, when I ran into this issue two years ago, and documented it
there.  It's even the same mirror that I use (which is no longer the
default, hence it standing out).

The issue did not happen this time around.  Instead of getting an "E:"
line (error), you only get a bunch of N: (warning) lines.

You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist any more.

PSA: 'apt-get update' new-Debian-release error fix

[The Wanderer]

I had enough trouble with this at the last Debian release, and came
close enough to having trouble with it again this time, that I want to
make sure the solution is available and findable for anyone else who may
need it.


For anyone who uses 'apt-get update' - and, I suspect, any other tool
than 'apt' itself - to update the list of available packages from the
new release, you're at least moderately likely to see the update attempt
fail with error messages like the following:

> E: Repository 'http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable InRelease' changed its 
> 'Codename' value from 'buster' to 'bullseye'
> N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be 
> applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details.

If you used the label 'buster' instead of 'stable' in your sources.list,
you may see complaints about a change in the 'Suite' value instead.

The error message directs you to the apt-secure(8) man page. This man
page does document the reason why this error happens (although not in a
very clear or discoverable fashion), but provides no hint about how to
explicitly accept the change and allow the update to proceed.

That is apparently because the fancy new 'apt' front-end will detect
this situation and prompt you to accept the change interactively, but
none of the others necessarily will.


The actual solution will depend on which apt front-end you're using.

For the front-end which is also called 'apt', a simple 'apt update' will
apparently be enough; it will apparently prompt you to accept the change
interactively, and if you do so, will proceed accordingly.

For the 'apt-get' front-end, the necessary solution is to run the
command 'apt-get update --allow-releaseinfo-change'.

For other front-ends (aptitude, synaptic, others?), there are probably
commands which can make it possible to get past this, but I don't know
what any of them are.


There have been bug reports about this misdirecting documentation, and
the lack of any usefully-discoverable pointer to the actual solution,
dating back as far as 2017; the bug has been acknowledged, possible
solutions have been proposed, but nothing has apparently actually made
it into the release as of yet.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian 11 is released!

[James B]

Well done to all - long live Debian!. 

Heartfelt congratulations and thanks from a long term user who wishes he could 
contribute more back :(




-- 
  James B
  portoteache...@fastmail.com

Em Sáb, 14 Ago ʼ21, às 22:54, piorunz escreveu:
> Thanks all Debian devs and users, after over 2 years, new version is 
> here! I am running it already on two computers and couldn't be more 
> happier :)
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> With kindest regards, piorunz.
> 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
> ⠈⠳⣄
> 

Re: Debian 11 estable en poques hores

[Eduard Selma]

El 12/8/21 a les 22:35, a...@probeta.net ha escrit:

Bona calorosa nit,

Sembla que tindrem nova Debian estable aquest dissabte, 14 d'agost, en 
unes hores.


    https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBullseye

He posat unes cervesetes a la nevera per celebrar-ho. Brindaré Per la 
nova Debian, pels/les Debian developers, i per tota la comunitat 
especialment vosaltres.


- JA LA TENIM AQUÍ. Afanyeu-vos, ara encara les descàrregues van a bona 
velocitat.


Salut i gràcies a tot l'equip de Debian

Eduard Selma.

Debian 11 is released!

[piorunz]

Thanks all Debian devs and users, after over 2 years, new version is 
here! I am running it already on two computers and couldn't be more 
happier :)



--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: password set at installation of debian-10.10.0-amd64 not recognized

[Charles Curley]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:00:39 -0400
Thomas George  wrote:

> Nevertheless there are rare cases only root can make changes.
> 
> What to do?

Check out "sudo -i".

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: All-in-One printer: HP OfficeJet 8012

[Brian]

On Sat 14 Aug 2021 at 15:31:07 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

> On 2021-08-14 2:44 p.m., Brian wrote:

[...]

>
> > A Mopria-certified printer is not a reliable indicator of driverless
> > printing being possible on Debian.
> > 
> 
> If you say so, I'll agree with you because there's no use of arguing of
> who's winning and I never had the expectation to win.

It isn't about winning. It is about cogent technical argument. Up to
now you haven't presented one. All you have done is referred to the
Mopria website as a source of information. The Debian printing system
is not mentioned in what you write.

I recognise your point but its validity in a Debian context is very
dubious.
 
> The only thing I know is that if you'd have read the Mopria site then
> you'd have looked at the FAQ and wouldn't have needed someone else to
> repeat you.
> 
> I am referring to this particular message.
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00624.html

This link was in the message you responded to. Why quote it back to
me?
 
> I have already told you that it supported PDF and that all the
> information was on the Mopria website.
> 
> I won't go back and write again all the message I've sent.
> 
> The 3 condition are met, if you don't want to see it then I can't do more.
> 
> You are somewhat crossing the line between acting in good faith and just
> acting in plain confrontation.

Deconstruction - "I cannot counter your technical arguments so..."

--- 
Brian.

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[ellanios82]

On 8/15/21 12:31 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

Press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to attempt to reach a text console.  If that's successful, 
then he can login there (as root) and attempt to install whatever's required to 
fix the problem



 - that Text Console has letters too small for my poor eyesight :(

 - is there please, a complete command, as root. that will give large 
font??



 - believe once saw some command which included the command "Setfont"


.

 thanks vm

.

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 01:50:29PM -0700, Weaver wrote:
> On 15-08-2021 06:39, lou wrote:
> > more complete translation of subject:
> > 
> > after debian installation, first boot fails, cursor in upper-left corner 
> > blinks
> 
> >From that, it sounds as if the installation has been successful, but he
> has omitted to install a desktop environment.

No.  It's the opposite problem.  The problem is that a desktop environment
including a Display Manager *has* been installed -- but X doesn't start,
or can't enter whatever crazy 3D acceleration mode the Display Manager
has requested.

The solution is typically to install nonfree firmware, and/or nonfree
drivers, and/or to upgrade to a newer release if the hardware is too
new.

> He is still in a position to do so via apt-get as root.

Press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to attempt to reach a text console.  If that's
successful, then he can login there (as root) and attempt to install
whatever's required to fix the problem.

If that doesn't work, then he can try booting into single-user mode,
if he gave a root password during installation.  Or, if there is no
root password, then he can try booting with the additional kernel
parameter

systemd.unit=multi-user.target

which should suppress the Display Manager from running, and boot into
console mode.

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-14 3:51 p.m., Curt wrote:
> On 2021-08-14, Michael Howard  wrote:
>> On 14/08/2021 16:08, Charles Curley wrote:
> 
>>> Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
>>> steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)
>>>
>>
>> Please take this shit off list!
>>
> 
> IP overwrought, is that it? 
> 
> 
> 
He want to take the IP over the list ?
IPoL ?

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: password set at installation of debian-10.10.0-amd64 not recognized

[Nicolas George]

Thomas George (12021-08-14):
> The installation from a usb stick went smoothly. Everything works sudo
> commands work so I will rarely need to log on as root.
> 
> Nevertheless there are rare cases only root can make changes.
> 
> What to do?

sudo passwd

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

password set at installation of debian-10.10.0-amd64 not recognized

[Thomas George]

The installation from a usb stick went smoothly. Everything works sudo 
commands work so I will rarely need to log on as root.


Nevertheless there are rare cases only root can make changes.

What to do?

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[mick crane]

On 2021-08-14 21:39, lou wrote:

more complete translation of subject:

after debian installation, first boot fails, cursor in upper-left 
corner blinks


Grub not finding the kernel ?

mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[Weaver]

On 15-08-2021 06:39, lou wrote:
> more complete translation of subject:
> 
> after debian installation, first boot fails, cursor in upper-left corner 
> blinks

>From that, it sounds as if the installation has been successful, but he
has omitted to install a desktop environment.
He is still in a position to do so via apt-get as root.
Cheers,

Harry.
-- 
`Unthinking respect for authority is 
the greatest enemy of truth'.
-- Albert Einstein

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[lou]

more complete translation of subject:

after debian installation, first boot fails, cursor in upper-left corner 
blinks

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[Weaver]

On 15-08-2021 06:32, lou wrote:
> Antonio Russo, you don't understand Chinese language? i'm afraid you can't 
> help
> 
> OP might not understand English
> 
> in OP's subject, he says debian installation fails, cursor in
> upper-left corner blinks
> 
> in OP's message body, he want to you to explain message in journal:
> 
> the unit systemd-hostname.service has successfully entered the 'dead' state

These might be more useful for him.
My Mandarin is far too limited, at this stage, to help.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-big5/

https://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/

Cheers!

Harry.

-- 
`Unthinking respect for authority is 
the greatest enemy of truth'.
-- Albert Einstein

Re: Debian 11 estable en poques hores

[Jordi]

El ds. 14 de 08 de 2021 a les 21:09 +0200, en/na a...@probeta.net va
escriure:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
> 


S'ha de reconèixer que fa una mica de respecte tot això ...

Salutacions

Jordi

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[lou]

Antonio Russo, you don't understand Chinese language? i'm afraid you 
can't help


OP might not understand English

in OP's subject, he says debian installation fails, cursor in upper-left 
corner blinks


in OP's message body, he want to you to explain message in journal:

the unit systemd-hostname.service has successfully entered the 'dead' state

Re: Preliminary hardware support status report - one week before the release of Debian 11

[Andrey Ponomarenko]

13.08.2021, 01:35, "Bret Busby" :On 11/8/21 11:03 pm, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote: The report is now available in Debian Salsa: https://salsa.debian.org/linuxhw/TestCoverage/-/tree/main/Dist/Debian_11  Hello all! See report here [1]. We have ~400 computers tested on Debian 11 at the moment. 10% of them are probed from LiveCDs, others are installed systems. The main goal of the report is to make sure that we have not lost support for any hardware configuration classes. To achieve this, I compared it with the similar report for Debian 10 [2] in order to find significant discrepancies. Good news that we've covered all hardware classes tested on Debian 10 and differences in statistical indicators are relatively small. Particularly, I don't see any noticeable regression in use of AMD or NVIDIA graphics cards [3]. Either affected graphics cards are rare or people do not have problems with installing additional firmware packages. Report details and logs (Xorg, dmesg, etc.) are available in the full-feature report [4]. Thanks to all for participating in the report! Looking forward to get more Debian hardware probes from the community to monitor hardware support status and trends. [1] https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/main/Dist/Debian_11 [2] https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/main/Dist/Debian_10 [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2021/04/msg00646.html [4] https://linux-hardware.org/?view=trends=debian-11 So, because I can't find it in the document, does Debian 11 supportnVIDIA Optimus?And, does Debian 11 support the Intel i7 Haskell architecture?Sure. It's 2nd most popular architecture among Debian 11 users: https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/main/Dist/Debian_11#cpu-microarchAndrey 

Re: Hors sujet

[Haricophile]

Le Tue, 10 Aug 2021 21:16:25 +0200,
Georges  a écrit :

>  Nous utilisions Claws-mail et je l'ai installé sur son W10.
>  Mais je suis incapable de trouver ou W10 enregistre les courriers
> pour lui copier ses anciens dossiers de Debian.

J'arrive après la bataille, mais concernant les boites aux lettres
avec Claws-Mail ça peut être n'importe où. Il suffit de copier le
dossier Mail avec son contenu quelque part (sous n'importe quel nom) et
d'ajouter une boite aux lettres dans le menu fichier. Supprimer une
boite ne supprime pas les fichiers.

Reste le problème des fichiers de configuration et personnalisation
(comptes, règles filtrage...) qui elles sont dans le dossier ad-hoc.

Je trouve que l'intérêt de Claws est justement que c'est encore
assez "simple et stupide" avec son format MH, et donc fiable pour la
conservation et manipulation des données à travers le temps et les
aléas. Je trouve Maildir déjà trop complexe. On a le droit d'avoir un
autre avis.

moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere

[Marco Möller]

Dear moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere.
This list recently is flooded with never ending arguing, and respect and 
politeness too often got lost.


Same here as already for Michael Howards "Fwd: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: 
Meta: behavior on list)". See attachment below.

Marco


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 15:41:42 -0400
From: Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
To: Marco Möller 



On 2021-08-14 3:38 p.m., Marco Möller wrote:

On 14.08.21 21:35, Michael Howard wrote:


Give the normal amongst us a break. This stuff is NOT debian, it is
social ineptitude and it has to stop.

Form yourselves a chat group somewhere, just NOT here. Please?

--
Michael Howard.



+1

---
Marco


FUCK OFF

--
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Michael Howard]

On 14/08/2021 20:51, Curt wrote:

On 2021-08-14, Michael Howard  wrote:

On 14/08/2021 16:08, Charles Curley wrote:

Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)


Please take this shit off list!


IP overwrought, is that it?




No

--
Michael Howard.

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Curt]

On 2021-08-14, Michael Howard  wrote:
> On 14/08/2021 16:08, Charles Curley wrote:

>> Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
>> steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)
>>
>
> Please take this shit off list!
>

IP overwrought, is that it? 

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-14 2:35 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 01:27:43PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs writes: 
>>> Some people will respond by switching to a different e-mail address in
>>> order to work around the killfiles they know they're now in.
>>
>> Fortunately Gnus can filter on things such as substrings of message IDs
>> and other identifying header features that the trolls are unaware of the
>> existence of.
> 
> Depends on how dedicated the troll is.  There's a person on the help-bash
> mailing list who has been trolling us under *multiple* fake identities
> since the beginning of the year.  They change their email address, their
> name (including apparent gender), and even their MUA on a regular basis
> in order to try to sneak in a few more of their questions.
> 
> I've got two killfile entries for this person, but they only work on
> the troll's past patterns, and there's no guarantee I'll catch their
> future messages this way.  This means I have to be continually on guard,
> and treat any newcomer with suspicion.
> 
> Some people just suck.
> 
Some people make more effort to be useless in society than to contribute
in something profitable for all of us. The main problem is that those
person often think they are so great...

Luckily, I've learned one expression from you and it was *killlist*
Just reminded me that it's often better to use this with some user of
this list.
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Fwd: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Michael Howard]

and her is an off list reply reply from the less than honourable Polyna


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)
Date:   Sat, 14 Aug 2021 15:41:22 -0400
From:   Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
To: Michael Howard 





On 2021-08-14 3:35 p.m., Michael Howard wrote:

On 14/08/2021 20:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,

On 2021-08-14 2:53 p.m., Michael Howard wrote:

On 14/08/2021 16:08, Charles Curley wrote:

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:37:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:


tomas writes:

But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?

Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier
yet we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but
worked. And, of course, pigeons.

Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)


Please take this shit off list!


rarely seen someone who express himself in a so good manner !

teaching by example, does this ever come to your mind ?

Give the normal amongst us a break. This stuff is NOT debian, it is
social ineptitude and it has to stop.

Form yourselves a chat group somewhere, just NOT here. Please?


FUCK OFF

-- Michael Howard.



--
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Marco Möller]

On 14.08.21 21:35, Michael Howard wrote:

Give the normal amongst us a break. This stuff is NOT debian, it is 
social ineptitude and it has to stop.


Form yourselves a chat group somewhere, just NOT here. Please?

--
Michael Howard.



+1

---
Marco

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Michael Howard]

On 14/08/2021 20:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,

On 2021-08-14 2:53 p.m., Michael Howard wrote:

On 14/08/2021 16:08, Charles Curley wrote:

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:37:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:


tomas writes:

But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?

Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier
yet we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but
worked. And, of course, pigeons.

Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)


Please take this shit off list!


rarely seen someone who express himself in a so good manner !

teaching by example, does this ever come to your mind ?
Give the normal amongst us a break. This stuff is NOT debian, it is 
social ineptitude and it has to stop.


Form yourselves a chat group somewhere, just NOT here. Please?

--
Michael Howard.

Re: All-in-One printer: HP OfficeJet 8012

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-14 2:44 p.m., Brian wrote:
> On Thu 12 Aug 2021 at 19:03:23 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> 
>> On 2021-08-12 6:27 p.m., Brian wrote:
>>> On Thu 12 Aug 2021 at 15:33:26 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>>>
>>> Please give a link at the Mopria website substantiating your clain that
>>> a Mopria certified device should be ca[able of accepting PDF as a PDL
>>> in addition to PWG raster and PCLm.
>>>
>> I forgot some hard to find information from Wikipedia
> 
> You also forgot to attempt to respond to a simple question. Curt
> answered it satisfactorily.
> 
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00624.html
> 
> You could have said "I do not know".
> 
>> If you doubt, 1st edit Wikipedia page and after this check the reference
>> down the page.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mopria_Alliance
>>
>> *IPP*
>>
>> Windows 10 support for Mopria certified printers
>> Microsoft implemented an IPP printing solution based on the Mopria
>> standard in the Windows 10, version 1809 operating system.
>>
>> *autodiscovery*
>> Mopria Print Service
>> The Mopria Print Service for Android was released in the Google Play
>> store in October 2014. It is a plug-in that enables printing from
>> Android devices to Mopria certified printers and MFPs.
>>
>> A client uses mDNS to automatically discover a printer through the local
>> 802.11 wireless network. The printer must be connected to the network
>> either wirelessly or with an Ethernet cable. Mopria Print Service also
>> supports printer connection through Wi-Fi Direct.
> 
> Any doubts I have do not relate to a transpot or discovery protocol
> but to a common PDL. As demonstrated at
> 
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00681.html
> 
> this is the critical third factor. You have completely ignored it.
> 
 And all of the condition make a printer pretty much driver less.
> 
> You only mention two conditions. A driverless printing situation
> requires *three* conditions.
> 
 There's no link with you talking about AirPrint.
> 
> This is where you go off the rails. I am utterly amazed that such
> a syatement could be made in the context of a Debian installation.
> These well meaning but ill-formed ideas really will have to revised
> to match reality.
> 
> A Mopria-certified printer is not a reliable indicator of driverless
> printing being possible on Debian.
> 

If you say so, I'll agree with you because there's no use of arguing of
who's winning and I never had the expectation to win.

The only thing I know is that if you'd have read the Mopria site then
you'd have looked at the FAQ and wouldn't have needed someone else to
repeat you.

I am referring to this particular message.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00624.html

I have already told you that it supported PDF and that all the
information was on the Mopria website.

I won't go back and write again all the message I've sent.

The 3 condition are met, if you don't want to see it then I can't do more.

You are somewhat crossing the line between acting in good faith and just
acting in plain confrontation.

Sorry, you are so beautiful, let me poke a knife thru my eye so I can
better admire you.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-08-14 2:53 p.m., Michael Howard wrote:
> On 14/08/2021 16:08, Charles Curley wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:37:00 -0500
>> John Hasler  wrote:
>>
>>> tomas writes:
 But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?
>>> Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier
>>> yet we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but
>>> worked. And, of course, pigeons.
>> Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
>> steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)
>>
> 
> Please take this shit off list!
> 

rarely seen someone who express himself in a so good manner !

teaching by example, does this ever come to your mind ?
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian 11 estable en poques hores

[alex]

https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Michael Howard]

On 14/08/2021 16:08, Charles Curley wrote:

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:37:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:


tomas writes:

But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?

Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier
yet we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but
worked. And, of course, pigeons.

Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)



Please take this shit off list!

--
Michael Howard.

Re: All-in-One printer: HP OfficeJet 8012

[Brian]

On Thu 12 Aug 2021 at 19:03:23 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

> On 2021-08-12 6:27 p.m., Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 12 Aug 2021 at 15:33:26 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > 
> > Please give a link at the Mopria website substantiating your clain that
> > a Mopria certified device should be ca[able of accepting PDF as a PDL
> > in addition to PWG raster and PCLm.
> > 
> I forgot some hard to find information from Wikipedia

You also forgot to attempt to respond to a simple question. Curt
answered it satisfactorily.

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00624.html

You could have said "I do not know".

> If you doubt, 1st edit Wikipedia page and after this check the reference
> down the page.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mopria_Alliance
> 
> *IPP*
> 
> Windows 10 support for Mopria certified printers
> Microsoft implemented an IPP printing solution based on the Mopria
> standard in the Windows 10, version 1809 operating system.
> 
> *autodiscovery*
> Mopria Print Service
> The Mopria Print Service for Android was released in the Google Play
> store in October 2014. It is a plug-in that enables printing from
> Android devices to Mopria certified printers and MFPs.
> 
> A client uses mDNS to automatically discover a printer through the local
> 802.11 wireless network. The printer must be connected to the network
> either wirelessly or with an Ethernet cable. Mopria Print Service also
> supports printer connection through Wi-Fi Direct.

Any doubts I have do not relate to a transpot or discovery protocol
but to a common PDL. As demonstrated at

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00681.html

this is the critical third factor. You have completely ignored it.

> >> And all of the condition make a printer pretty much driver less.

You only mention two conditions. A driverless printing situation
requires *three* conditions.

> >> There's no link with you talking about AirPrint.

This is where you go off the rails. I am utterly amazed that such
a syatement could be made in the context of a Debian installation.
These well meaning but ill-formed ideas really will have to revised
to match reality.

A Mopria-certified printer is not a reliable indicator of driverless
printing being possible on Debian.
-- 
Brian.

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 01:27:43PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs writes: 
> > Some people will respond by switching to a different e-mail address in
> > order to work around the killfiles they know they're now in.
> 
> Fortunately Gnus can filter on things such as substrings of message IDs
> and other identifying header features that the trolls are unaware of the
> existence of.

Depends on how dedicated the troll is.  There's a person on the help-bash
mailing list who has been trolling us under *multiple* fake identities
since the beginning of the year.  They change their email address, their
name (including apparent gender), and even their MUA on a regular basis
in order to try to sneak in a few more of their questions.

I've got two killfile entries for this person, but they only work on
the troll's past patterns, and there's no guarantee I'll catch their
future messages this way.  This means I have to be continually on guard,
and treat any newcomer with suspicion.

Some people just suck.

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[Antonio Russo]

Sorry, I didn't translate your title. (In the future, it's good form
to include all important information in the body of an email, even
if it duplicates the title.)

Does pressing CTRL-ALT-F2 give you a login prompt?

Is there any other text on the screen besides that single message
you have copied?

Best,
Antonio


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Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[John Hasler]

Charlie Gibbs writes: 
> Some people will respond by switching to a different e-mail address in
> order to work around the killfiles they know they're now in.

Fortunately Gnus can filter on things such as substrings of message IDs
and other identifying header features that the trolls are unaware of the
existence of.

Though they usually are not worth the trouble.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Sat Aug 14 10:23:31 2021 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
 wrote:

> On 2021-08-13 4:59 p.m., John Hasler wrote:
>
>> Stefan writes:
>>
>>> How odd.  I always assumed that it was the comic-strip style
>>> representation of the sound of hanging up the phone abruptly.
>>
>> No.  I was there when it came into use.  It definitely represents the
>> sound of a small object dropping into a large tank with liquid at the
>> bottom.  A septic tank, for example.  It was common to respond to a
>> particularly asinine article with the one-word followup "plonk".
>>
>> I've never seen any point in telling the world (or the plonked
>> individual) about the action, though.
>
> I have serious doubt against the "plonked" being able to appreciate
> what is happening to him. Most of the time, they won't stop and will
> just continue to argue against themselves. Something trying to use
> words from language they don't even master while trying to do so.

Some people will respond by switching to a different e-mail address
in order to work around the killfiles they know they're now in.
These are particularly dedicated individuals who feel that their
message must be heard under any circumstances.

https://xkcd.com/386/

--
/~\  Charlie Gibbs  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /|  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |-- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

Re: Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[Antonio Russo]

On 8/14/21 10:35 AM, 先生陳 wrote:
> 查journal 最後是
>  the unit systemd-hostname.service has successfully entered the 'dead' state
> 是怎回事？

Hello,

Please give the output of the two commands:

# LC_ALL=C systemctl status systemd-hostnamed
# LC_ALL=C systemctl status systemd-hostname

The service file *should* be called "hostenamed" with a "d" at the end. Was that
a typo/miscopy, or is there genuinely a systemd-hostname service?

Also, besides that message, what exact problem are you experiencing?

Finally

Best,
Antonio


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Intel nuc 11 i5 kit 安裝debian後，首次開機就失敗，黑化面左上角遊標一直閃

[先生陳]

查journal 最後是
 the unit systemd-hostname.service has successfully entered the 'dead' state
是怎回事？

Re: HP plat fair with drivers?

[Kushal Kumaran]

On Sat, Aug 14 2021 at 07:02:31 PM, Keith Bainbridge  wrote:
> On 11/8/21 00:14, Nicolas George wrote:
>> Based on past experience, I am favoring HP, because AFAIK they mostly
>> play fair about Libre drivers
>
> Good afternoon
>
> I'd like to agree that HP plays fair with drivers.
>
> A friend bought a HP laptop last year. His favoured distro is Mint(bunt)
> which I have found  provided good support for ALL wifi. But he had to
> buy a plug-in USB dongle wifi.
>
> Admittedly, we haven't been able to meet face to face long enough to try
> harder with him.  I suggested he try a new Mint Edge complete with
> kernel 5.11, but he can't find his  toy.   I reckon my wifi is working
> much better than ever with the 5.11 kernel
>
>
> I sat listening to Keith Packard at linux.conf.au 2016, quite impressed
> with his support for OSS in general. Pity about this wifi card in his
> laptop.  And no, I don't know model details. It was pretty cheap.
>

Keith Packard is not the "Packard" from Hewlett-Packard.  The "Packard"
in HP was David Packard, and the company was started well before the
current set of hackers were born.

Keith Packard, despite his accomplishments, probably has no influence
on the wifi cards in HP laptops.

-- 
regards,
kushal

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Charles Curley]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 07:37:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> tomas writes:
> > But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?  
> 
> Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier
> yet we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but
> worked. And, of course, pigeons.

Don't forget IP over drums, and of course IP over lanterns in church
steeples ("Two if by sea", etc.)

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: [OFFTOPIC] CoCo and oldies (was : 1149 (was: lonk / was: Meta: behavior on list))

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-08-14 9:16 a.m., Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 14 August 2021 08:44:44 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:37:00AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
>>> tomas writes:
 But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?
>>>
>>> Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier
>>> yet we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but
>>> worked. And, of course, pigeons.
>>
>> Yes! Pigeons!  UUCP over Avian Carrier. Later they shamelessly copied
>> that in rfc1149 [1].
>>
>> (now seriously: my first Usenet feed actually was over UUCP over...
>> a 14.4k modem)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carrier
>>
>>  - t
> Chuckle, you were a bit late to that party Tomas. When I first accessed 
> Delphi, I used a 300 baud modem on a trs-80 color computer running os9. 
> That was before Judge Green, and the 16 air miles to the access point 
> was still long distance. So my coco ran my LD bill up over $100 some 
> months. Nobody had 56k modems yet. I was in hog heaven when I got my 
> first 1200 baud modem.
> 
You put me back in the "good old times", long time haven't heard of Delphi.

Did have a phone coupler (the thing that you put the handset over and
would dial manually) for my Commodore SuperPet 900, plus the 1200 bauds
modem of my Commodore 64 (later).

I remember to have had a CoCo but it was running in plain Basic, don't
remember which one I had.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: [OFFTOPIC] 1149 (was: lonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list))

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 14 August 2021 08:44:44 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:37:00AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > tomas writes:
> > > But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?
> >
> > Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier
> > yet we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but
> > worked. And, of course, pigeons.
>
> Yes! Pigeons!  UUCP over Avian Carrier. Later they shamelessly copied
> that in rfc1149 [1].
>
> (now seriously: my first Usenet feed actually was over UUCP over...
> a 14.4k modem)
>
> Cheers
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carrier
>
>  - t
Chuckle, you were a bit late to that party Tomas. When I first accessed 
Delphi, I used a 300 baud modem on a trs-80 color computer running os9. 
That was before Judge Green, and the 16 air miles to the access point 
was still long distance. So my coco ran my LD bill up over $100 some 
months. Nobody had 56k modems yet. I was in hog heaven when I got my 
first 1200 baud modem.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[Erwan David]

Le 14/08/2021 à 14:37, John Hasler a écrit :
> tomas writes:
>> But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?
> Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier yet
> we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but worked.
> And, of course, pigeons.

I have a secondary MX through UUCP, but over IPv6...

Re: [OFFTOPIC] 1149 (was: lonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list))

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 07:37:00AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> tomas writes:
> > But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?
> 
> Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier yet
> we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but worked.
> And, of course, pigeons.

Yes! Pigeons!  UUCP over Avian Carrier. Later they shamelessly copied
that in rfc1149 [1].

(now seriously: my first Usenet feed actually was over UUCP over...
a 14.4k modem)

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carrier

 - t


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Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[John Hasler]

tomas writes:
> But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?

Yup.  Back in the 1860s we did UUCP over manual telegraph.  Earlier yet
we used heliograph.  Signal fires on hilltops were slow, but worked.
And, of course, pigeons.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: All-in-One printer: HP OfficeJet 8012

[Brian]

On Tue 10 Aug 2021 at 18:29:02 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

[...]

> I'm using a Xerox B205 MFC and it's fully supported. Yes it's laser but
> the reason I am writing this message regard something else.
> 
> It's the support of MOPRIA.

Looks like an idea worth examining. Let's look at what's on the tin
and inside it.

Accordin to

  https://mopria.org/certified-products#company30

my ENVY 4502 is a Mopria-certified product. It is on a managed WiFi
network

Part of its TXT record shows:

  pdl=application/vnd.hp-PCL,image/jpeg,application/PCLm,image/urf

application/PCLm is acceptable to a Mopria. (I think it is meant to
used with Wi-Fi Direct and not a managed WiFi network, but we'll put
that on one side because a more pressing issue is about to emerge).

CUPS will give the printer destination with

  brian@desktop:~$ lpstat -e
  ENVY4500

and generate a PPD with

  brian@desktop:~$ lpoptions -p ENVY4500 -l

Examine the PPD with

  brian@desktop:~# grep "cupsFilter2" /etc/cups/ppd/ENVY4500.ppd
  *cupsFilter2: "image/jpeg image/jpeg 0 -"
  *cupsFilter2: "image/urf image/urf 100 -"

CUPS will only process jpeg and Apple raster (AirPrint). The filtering
system *must* send either of these two MIME types for printing to take
place. Having Mopria on the box isn't any indication that Driverless
Printing is possible with this printer.

A much better indication is looking for AirPrint-capabilty. CUPS will
accept and process image/urf. All modern printers have an AirPrint
service that is known to work splenedidly with the Debian printing
system.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Meta: behavior on list

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 10:59:04AM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

[...]

> Be considerate to each other. Be polite - be helpful.

[...]

Thanks, Andrew :)

> Trying to make Debian a better place starts one post at a time. That's one
> of the reasons why I volunteer for the Debian community team.

...and thanks for that.

> [And yes, this can readily be seen as  pious politcal correctness liberal 
> bullshit and irrelevant  and you can all ignore it - until the time when it 
> suddenly becomes important to you on an issue you care about - or you 
> appreciate someone more for trying to help you when you're down.]

Paradoxically, this seems to be the place some people have their crumple
buttons. I have no ready solution for that, just the observation that
this seems like some strange twin of Gödel's incompleteness theorem :-/

> And now back to tech stuff - and a release to get out :)

Yes. And thanks, again.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: [OT] browsable archive of OFTC debian channels?

[Marco Möller]

On 14.08.21 13:36, Linux-Fan wrote:

Andrew M.A. Cater writes:


On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 01:05:00PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
>
> Hello! Is there somewhere publicly accessible an archive of the
> conversations taking place in the #debian[*] OFTC channels? Would be 
great,

> because I am not constantly online and thus am unable to fully follow
> conversations there.


[...]

https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ apparently - I asked in #debian 
on OFTC


I got that with google, too. Looking at the front page, it seems to have 
`#debian` only, though. I.e. none of the other channels like

`#debian-offtopic`, `#debian-mentors`, `#debian-cd` etc.


Thanks a lot, Andrew and Linux-Fan!


Most people interested in seeing all the conversations seem to stay 
online all the time, e.g. using a detached screen or tmux session of an 
IRC client.


Well, yes, but this still needs that some machine stays online all time.

Above provided link is what I was searching for, although wished for 
more of the Debian related channels.

---
Marco

Re: Debian 11 estable en poques hores

[Xavier De Yzaguirre i Maura]

Bon dia Jordi i companyia,

Habitualment a la pàgina de la versió estable s'hi indica com fer-ho,
quan Bullseye esdevingui estable, actualitzaran la plana i ho podràs trobar:

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/

i

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/releasenotes

que conte les explicacions per a cada arquitectura i en força idiomes.

Una abraçada.

--
Xavier De Yzaguirre i Maura

xdeyzaguirre at protonmail(dot)ch
S

Re: [OT] browsable archive of OFTC debian channels?

[Linux-Fan]

Andrew M.A. Cater writes:


On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 01:05:00PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
>
> Hello! Is there somewhere publicly accessible an archive of the
> conversations taking place in the #debian[*] OFTC channels? Would be great,
> because I am not constantly online and thus am unable to fully follow
> conversations there.


[...]


https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ apparently - I asked in #debian on OFTC


I got that with google, too. Looking at the front page, it seems to have  
`#debian` only, though. I.e. none of the other channels like

`#debian-offtopic`, `#debian-mentors`, `#debian-cd` etc.

Most people interested in seeing all the conversations seem to stay online  
all the time, e.g. using a detached screen or tmux session of an IRC client.


HTH
Linux-Fan

öö

[...]


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Re: [OT] browsable archive of OFTC debian channels?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 01:05:00PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
> 
> Hello! Is there somewhere publicly accessible an archive of the
> conversations taking place in the #debian[*] OFTC channels? Would be great,
> because I am not constantly online and thus am unable to fully follow
> conversations there.
> 
> ---
> Always stay in good spirits!
> Marco
> 

https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/debian/ apparently - I asked in #debian on OFTC

Alll best,

Andy Cater

Re: Debian 11 estable en poques hores

[Jordi]

Bon dia, algú em pot dirigir correctament a algun enllaç on expliqui
clarament com actualitzar des de Buster??


gracies

Jordi



El dj. 12 de 08 de 2021 a les 22:35 +0200, en/na a...@probeta.net va
escriure:
> Bona calorosa nit,
> 
> Sembla que tindrem nova Debian estable aquest dissabte, 14 d'agost,
> en 
> unes hores.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBullseye
> 
> He posat unes cervesetes a la nevera per celebrar-ho. Brindaré Per
> la 
> nova Debian, pels/les Debian developers, i per tota la comunitat 
> especialment vosaltres.
> 
> Salut companys/yes
> 
> 
>  Àlex
> 

[OT] browsable archive of OFTC debian channels?

[Marco Möller]

Hello! Is there somewhere publicly accessible an archive of the 
conversations taking place in the #debian[*] OFTC channels? Would be 
great, because I am not constantly online and thus am unable to fully 
follow conversations there.


---
Always stay in good spirits!
Marco

Re: Meta: behavior on list

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 12:41:40PM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> deloptes wrote: 
> > @Brian communication with Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside is meaningless and
> > a waste of time.
> 
> You should have stopped here.
> 
> 
> > I even had to google her, because I had the feeling I talk to a troll. I
> > think she is extreme left ... lost in gendering and so on somewhere in
> > French Canada, but I do not have any evidence for that. However the
> > information I found 
> 
> At this point, you crossed the line in my head.
> 
> There is no way in which the gender of any participant in
> debian-users is relevant. Nor their sexuality, religion, skin
> color, national origin, or even the fact that they use other
> operating systems from time to time.

See also the FAQ I post each month :)

> 
> There are occasionally issues that relate to where someone is
> operating a computer -- WiFi bands, hardware availability, censorship
> issues come to mind -- but none of those are relevant in the
> current discussion, so whatever your problem with Canadians,
> Québécois(e) or Francophones is, I suggest that you forget about
> it until it becomes relevant.
> 
> Finally, if someone doesn't bring up their politics on-list,
> there's no call for you to bring up their politics on-list. You
> can silently avoid helping as much as you please.
> 
> And in conclusion, plonk!
> 
> -dsr-
> 

Be considerate to each other. Be polite - be helpful.

There's no need to dig into people's backgrounds to try and work out why
they annoy you - get over it and treat them well. When you annoy them,
with luck, they'll do the same.

Debian is a HUGE community - every political viewpoint, every religious 
viewpoint, shades of sexual orientation and identity, shades of gender
- often the only thing that unites us is that we use/are interested in/
keep up with Debian.

That doesn't mean to say that personality doesn't come up - just that it's
a secondary consideration. Stick around for a while and you discover what
are hot topics - what you can say to push someone's crumple buttons.

[Everyone has a button/hot topic that sets them going: your attitude/your
tone or the words you use might remind them of an unfortunate situation/
bad experiences or just life experiences. Hit on it accidentally and you
can make them want to fight you/burst into tears or whatever - unexpected
quite often.] 

Don't set out to punch people's crumple buttons: hit them 
deliberately and some people double over just as much as if 
you'd hit them in the stomach

Trying to make Debian a better place starts one post at a time. That's one
of the reasons why I volunteer for the Debian community team.

[And yes, this can readily be seen as  pious politcal correctness liberal 
bullshit and irrelevant  and you can all ignore it - until the time when it 
suddenly becomes important to you on an issue you care about - or you 
appreciate someone more for trying to help you when you're down.]

And now back to tech stuff - and a release to get out :)

All best,

Andy C

Re: Preliminary hardware support status report - one week before the release of Debian 11

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 06:12:54AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 11/8/21 11:03 pm, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:
> > The report is now available in Debian Salsa: 
> > https://salsa.debian.org/linuxhw/TestCoverage/-/tree/main/Dist/Debian_11
> > 
> > > Hello all!
> > > 
> > > See report here [1]. We have ~400 computers tested on Debian 11 at the 
> > > moment. 10% of them are probed from LiveCDs, others are installed systems.
> > > 
> > > The main goal of the report is to make sure that we have not lost support 
> > > for any hardware configuration classes. To achieve this, I compared it 
> > > with the similar report for Debian 10 [2] in order to find significant 
> > > discrepancies. Good news that we've covered all hardware classes tested 
> > > on Debian 10 and differences in statistical indicators are relatively 
> > > small. Particularly, I don't see any noticeable regression in use of AMD 
> > > or NVIDIA graphics cards [3]. Either affected graphics cards are rare or 
> > > people do not have problems with installing additional firmware packages.
> > > 
> > > Report details and logs (Xorg, dmesg, etc.) are available in the 
> > > full-feature report [4].
> > > 
> > > Thanks to all for participating in the report! Looking forward to get 
> > > more Debian hardware probes from the community to monitor hardware 
> > > support status and trends.
> > > 
> > > [1] https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/main/Dist/Debian_11
> > > [2] https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/main/Dist/Debian_10
> > > [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2021/04/msg00646.html
> > > [4] https://linux-hardware.org/?view=trends=debian-11
> > 
> 
> 
> So, because I can't find it in the document, does Debian 11 support nVIDIA
> Optimus?
> 
> And, does Debian 11 support the Intel i7 Haskell architecture?
> 
> -- 
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..
> 
Optimus - yes - but you might need to jump through hoops. On laptops with
Optimus, I found it easiest to install a bare text install first - no X, no 
GUI, then install the bumblebee package then install the prerequisites
for any Nvidia driver. Only after that with all the bits in place, 
install a desktop using tasksel.

If you're happy to use nouveau, then it's bumblebee. If you need to use
the proprietary driver it's bumblebee-nvidia you need.

It was painful to go through it all with nouveau only to discover laptop 
lockups and that I'd have to start again with the proprietary drivers. 
Try a couple fo test installs and good luck.

All the very best,

Andy Cater

Re: Root location

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 12:11:37PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-08-13 11:47 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> > Thx to Polyna especially, for telling me that I have x86-64 machine. Do
> > not yet know x86 part but 64bit it certainly is.
> > In Mint 32bit i686 still. but now
> > I know a little bit (!) more about this machine, how chmod is not wise
> > to use, etc. Kinda fun, cos Mint lets me in again. So far.
> > My Mini PC Windows 10 128GB SSD is in the customs here (been there 6
> > weeks..), great. Hope I can use the screen on this for a week or two..
> Earlier you said you are running a computer based on Mac ?
> 
> Wasn't the case ?
> 
> It's hard to follow this thread...
> 
> > I will surely stay in Mint, that is without root, chroot, chmod etc
> > until I have a tiny clue what all this is doing with my computer. Wild
> > child still, weird.
> > Gunnar
> > 
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 at 09:45, Keith Bainbridge  > > wrote:
> > 
> > On 13/8/21 18:15, Gunnar Gervin wrote:
> > > I tried to partition with rEFInd because Linux Mint 19 i386 xfce
> > 32bit
> > > worked with EFI. In hope to upgrade to x86-64bit. After it looked
> > like
> > > all good, I went out, thinking it was OK. But installation came
> > back to
> > > start, asking me to choose put boot in Mbr, Partition with Gparted or
> > > Abort. Mbr resulted in warning. Gparted offered grub bios, took that,
> > > result was root in /target
> > > instead of in /dev/sda1
> > > Now:
> > > lsblk
> > > sda1 148G  part  /
> > > sda3  999M  part
> > >
> > > Looks okay;
> > > sda1 as root
> > > sda3 as swap
> > >
> > > Better I try boot
> > > Then see what happens.
> > > (Later upgrade to 64bit if I can).
> > > BR,
> > > Gunnar
> > 
> > 
> > Gunnar
> > 
> > I suggest you stick with Mint until you get a better understanding of
> > how things work.
> > 
> > 
> > Try testing in virtual machine
> > 
> > -- 
> > All the best
> > 
> > Keith Bainbridge
> > 
> > keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 

>From what I recall: Gunnar has an old (2006/2007) macbook with intel core
duo, 3GB of RAM and an SSD he's put in himself.

Macs of that age had difficulty reading some CD media (because of difficulty
with the El Torito format??) . There is specific Mac media under amd64 (so 
64 bit) CPU to deal with this fact. The transition period for when Macs could
read "normal" media is around that time, I think, so this is a special case. 

The CD team don't have the hardware to test this specific image, as far as I
know.

I seem to recall that Gunnar may hve more than that - he may have a later
Macbook undergoing repair.

Gunnar: Please try with the mac specific amd64 image, I've pointed you to
in other threads, else try with the standard amd64 image. 

Getting 32 bit media to run badly is no great help. ReFind is definitely
_not_ recommended. Please simplify this to one install that works, maybe.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

HP plat fair with drivers?

[Keith Bainbridge]

On 11/8/21 00:14, Nicolas George wrote:

Based on past experience, I am favoring HP, because AFAIK they mostly
play fair about Libre drivers


Good afternoon

I'd like to agree that HP plays fair with drivers.

A friend bought a HP laptop last year. His favoured distro is Mint(bunt)
which I have found  provided good support for ALL wifi. But he had to
buy a plug-in USB dongle wifi.

Admittedly, we haven't been able to meet face to face long enough to try
harder with him.  I suggested he try a new Mint Edge complete with
kernel 5.11, but he can't find his  toy.   I reckon my wifi is working
much better than ever with the 5.11 kernel


I sat listening to Keith Packard at linux.conf.au 2016, quite impressed
with his support for OSS in general. Pity about this wifi card in his
laptop.  And no, I don't know model details. It was pretty cheap.

--
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Plonk (wss: Meta: behavior on list)

[tomas]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 04:12:10PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de [2021-08-13 19:11:43] wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 12:49:34PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> > wrote:
> > [...]
> >> Plonk ?

[...]

> > [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/P/plonk.html 
> 
> How odd.  I always assumed that it was the comic-strip style
> representation of the sound of hanging up the phone abruptly.

But... Usenet was /before/ 'phone, wasn't it?

;-P

Cheers
 - t


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