Re: Python

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 08 July 2017 13:06:29 Kris G wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am considering switching over to Debian from Fedora. I was wondering if
> Debian Jessie has python pre installed? Or does it have to be installed via
> the terminal as an apt-get?
>
> I apologise if this is a silly question?
>
> Regards.
>
> Sent from my iPhone

Why are you thinking of causing yourself problems by installing Jessie (Old 
Stable, soon out of support) when the current Stable is Stretch?

To answer your question:

lisi@Eros:~$ aptitude show python
Package: python
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Multi-Arch: allowed
Version: 2.7.9-1
Priority: standard
Section: python
Maintainer: Matthias Klose 
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 696 k
Depends: python2.7 (>= 2.7.9-1~), libpython-stdlib (= 2.7.9-1)
PreDepends: python-minimal (= 2.7.9-1)
Suggests: python-doc (= 2.7.9-1), python-tk (>= 2.7.9-1~)
Conflicts: python-central (< 0.5.5), python-central (< 0.5.5), python
Breaks: update-manager-core (< 0.200.5-2), update-manager-core (< 0.200.5-2)
Replaces: python-dev (< 2.6.5-2), python-dev (< 2.6.5-2)
Provides: python-ctypes, python-email, python-importlib, python-profiler, 
python-wsgiref, python:any
Description: interactive high-level object-oriented language (default version)
 Python, the high-level, interactive object oriented language, includes an 
extensive class library
 with lots of goodies for network programming, system administration, sounds 
and graphics.

 This package is a dependency package, which depends on Debian's default 
Python version (currently
 v2.7).
Homepage: http://www.python.org/

Tags: devel::interpreter, devel::lang:python, implemented-in::c, 
implemented-in::python,
  interface::commandline, role::metapackage, role::program, scope::utility

lisi@Eros:~$ cat /etc/debian_version
8.8
lisi@Eros:~$

Lisi

Re: Stretch--how to launch WICD, which isn't in the menu

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 19 June 2017 12:09:59 Brian wrote:
> On Mon 19 Jun 2017 at 11:38:28 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Monday 19 June 2017 00:24:52 pplaw wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > In Stretch, I'd like to use WICD to manage network interfaces,
> > > but when I go through what had been my usual menu with Jessie
> > > (Programs > Applications > network > Monitoring > WICD), there's
> > > no Monitoring > WICD.
> > >
> > > How do I access and, thus, launch WICD?
> >
> > You don't say what Desktop Environment you are using, but on many, alt-F2
> > will bring up a launcher.  You then type wicd and press enter. 
> > Alternatively, open a terminal and type wicd.
> >
> > You do know that you have got WICD?  I always have to install it
> > separately (having removed NM).
>
> If wicd is installed, wouldn't the daemon be running? wicd-gtk,
> wicd-curses or wicd-cli would be typed?

I just type wicd in the launcher - YMMV.  (Bad habits, old dogs .. I'm sure 
lots of them apply. :-(  )

Lisi

Re: Stretch--how to launch WICD, which isn't in the menu

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 19 June 2017 00:24:52 pplaw wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In Stretch, I'd like to use WICD to manage network interfaces,
> but when I go through what had been my usual menu with Jessie
> (Programs > Applications > network > Monitoring > WICD), there's
> no Monitoring > WICD.
>
> How do I access and, thus, launch WICD?

You don't say what Desktop Environment you are using, but on many, alt-F2 will 
bring up a launcher.  You then type wicd and press enter.  Alternatively, 
open a terminal and type wicd.

You do know that you have got WICD?  I always have to install it separately 
(having removed NM).

Lisi

Re: Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 15 June 2017 16:41:56 aconcernedfoss...@airmail.cc wrote:
> Why does no one care that Brad Spengler of GRSecurity is blatantly
> violating the intention of the rightsholders to the Linux Kernel?

It isn't that we don't care.  It is that we feel helpless, which is just what 
Bard Spengler is banking on.  "Someone" needs to take him on in court. :-(

Lisi

Re: Downgrading specific packages with apt

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 11 June 2017 08:16:11 Fungi4All wrote:
> Below please find Lisi's answer on whether packages should be reverted or
> not.

!!  There is nothing there - not surprising since I have never passed an 
opinion on any such thing.  Does the version that went directly to solitone 
have a complete invention by you, that you daren't let the list see since 
they would know that I didn't say any such thing??  If so, then please, 
Solitone, let me and the list know what I am supposed to have said.

Lisi

Re: Downgrading specific packages with apt

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 10 June 2017 10:45:22 Fungi4All wrote:
> UTC Time: June 10, 2017 7:42 AM
> From: solit...@mail.com
>
> On Friday, 9 June 2017 23:38:40 CEST Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> > I've never downgrade using apt, but with synaptic it's not too hard,
>
> Hi Jimmy, and thanks for your reply. I'm under Plasma Desktop, so I don't
> have synaptic--I use KDE's Discover. Although I use it only for automatic
> updates. For installing/removing packages, as well as setting a package on
> hold, I use apt. I'd rather use apt for downgrading as well.
>
> dpkg
>
> Put a package on hold:
>
> echo " hold" | sudo dpkg --set-selections
>
> Remove the hold:
>
> echo " install" | sudo dpkg --set-selections
>
> Display the status of your packages:
>
> dpkg --get-selections
>
> Display the status of a single package:
>
> dpkg --get-selections | grep ""
>
> apt
>
> Hold a package:
>
> sudo apt-mark hold 
>
> Remove the hold:
>
> sudo apt-mark unhold 
>
> aptitude
>
> Hold a package:
>
> sudo aptitude hold 
>
> Remove the hold:
>
> sudo aptitude unhold 
>
> thanks to askubuntu
>
> Cheers!

Yes, but it wasn't the question asked.  He already knows how to "hold" and has 
already done it.  He wants to be sure how to DOWNGRADE if he needs to do so.

I realise that in theory Solitone could be a she, and apologise if my 
impression that he is a man is wrong. :-(

Lisi

Re: ifconfig network resolution

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 10 June 2017 21:18:42 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> My apologies in advance because I'm asking that without knowing if he
> does or does not actually speak Japanese. He might be able to read
> that quite well. In that case, I'm envious because that's on a #Life
> to-do bucket list for me.. :)

He lives in Japan and probably actually has a Japanese computer that has to  
be persuaded to talk English. ;-).

Now, I have debugged network problems on a UNIX computer that spoke Japanese, 
knowing none myself and reading even less.  AND I succeeded.  I felt very 
proud not just of myself but of UNIX.  (Japanese Macbook withMac-OSX)

Lisi

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 07 June 2017 01:51:30 Long Wind wrote:
> i can visit the web site with firefox 4 xp and android browser. the problem
> is with iceweasel
>
> thanks anyway!
>
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2017, SDA  wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 05:30:05AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> > > Thank Thomas!
> > > I disable javascript, but it still display nothing.
> > >
> > > the web site is in Chinese, use Unicode
> > >
> > > my energy is limited,I give up
> > > Thank all those who reply!
> >
> > I posted a link to what the page looks like as a webm movie. Not see it?

Why are you using Iceweasel?  (You probably said, but I can't find it.)

Lisi

Re: Proper sources list from Jessie > Stretch

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 04 June 2017 00:27:06 Ric Moore wrote:
> On 06/02/2017 10:41 AM, Fungi4All wrote:
> > Sorry for the top-post but I think it is appropriate
>
> It is not ever appropriate, no matter what you think. Ric

+1

Lisi

Re: Setting up power-off icon

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 01 June 2017 00:58:37 Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> On 01/06/17 11:48, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Thursday 01 June 2017 00:17:29 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >> [Desktop Entry]
>
> [...]
>
> >> Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/power-button-off_318-4.jpg
>
> [...]
>
> > I have one that is working via the desktop shortcut - but am now faced
> > with being unable to change the icon.  (Which is just a gear.)
>
> Lisi, have you tried using a PNG, with a ".png" extension?
>
> https://specifications.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spe
>c-1.0.html
> https://specifications.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-late
>st.html "The image files must be one of the types: PNG, XPM, or SVG, and the
> extension must be ".png", ".xpm", or ".svg" (lower case). The support for
> SVG files is optional. Implementations that do not support SVGs should just
> ignore any ".svg" files."
>
> Kind regards,

Thanks!!  Had just succeeded.  Now have an enormous, functioning poweroff 
icon!!

Thank you for the reply.  One icon down, three to go  (The others are just 
URLs and should be easy!  And I know now how to change the icon if I want 
to!)

Lisi

Re: Setting up power-off icon

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 01 June 2017 00:17:29 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> I want to set up a large power-off icon on the desktop for a user with very
> poor sight.  I have found a suitable icon and am now struggling with
> setting up the icon on the desktop.
>
> Debian Jessie 8.8 with TDE 14.0.5.
>
> This is what I have so far:
>
> [Desktop Entry]
> Name=Shut_down
> Comment=Log out and power off
> Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/power-button-off_318-4.jpg
> Exec=sudo /sbin/poweroff
> Type=Application
> Encoding=UTF-8
> Terminal=false
> Categories=None;
>
> saved in /home/$USER/Desktop/

I have one that is working via the desktop shortcut - but am now faced with 
being unable to change the icon.  (Which is just a gear.)

Lisi
>
> I get an icon (the wrong one!) on the desktop on which I can click and it
> launches the application launcher and asks for an application or URL.  If I
> delete the word sudo I get the menu opened up and get asked which
> application I want.
>
> I asked on the TDE list and was told to set up an con to execute the sudo
> command, then googled, and got the idea for this from:
> http://www.raspberry-projects.com/pi/pi-operating-systems/raspbian/gui/desk
>top-shortcuts but am now completely at sea and am probably asking the wrong
> questions.
>
> I have never been a lover of icons and am not very hot on their creation
> and use.
>
> The user got badly scammed, so I am doing this instead of just reinstalling
> Windows 7 and letting him get on with it.  If I can succeed, this will be
> much easier for him and MUCH less insecure.
>
> Lisi

I

Setting up power-off icon

[Lisi Reisz]

I want to set up a large power-off icon on the desktop for a user with very 
poor sight.  I have found a suitable icon and am now struggling with setting 
up the icon on the desktop.

Debian Jessie 8.8 with TDE 14.0.5.

This is what I have so far:

[Desktop Entry]
Name=Shut_down
Comment=Log out and power off
Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/power-button-off_318-4.jpg
Exec=sudo /sbin/poweroff
Type=Application
Encoding=UTF-8
Terminal=false
Categories=None;

saved in /home/$USER/Desktop/

I get an icon (the wrong one!) on the desktop on which I can click and it 
launches the application launcher and asks for an application or URL.  If I 
delete the word sudo I get the menu opened up and get asked which application 
I want.

I asked on the TDE list and was told to set up an con to execute the sudo 
command, then googled, and got the idea for this from:
http://www.raspberry-projects.com/pi/pi-operating-systems/raspbian/gui/desktop-shortcuts
but am now completely at sea and am probably asking the wrong questions. 

I have never been a lover of icons and am not very hot on their creation and 
use.

The user got badly scammed, so I am doing this instead of just reinstalling 
Windows 7 and letting him get on with it.  If I can succeed, this will be 
much easier for him and MUCH less insecure.

Lisi

Re: Need something similar to mate-color-select

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 26 May 2017 14:09:21 Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm using Stretch with MATE desktop.
> I need to chose a solid color for my background.
> It is unsuitable for two reasons:
> 1. The sample color display is *TOO* small.
> 2. When using the color wheel an *ANNOYING* text box appears.
>
> An acceptable solution would replace the too small color sample by
> changing mate-color-select's background color in real-time as any of the
> provided parameters are changed.
>
> Suggestions?
> TIA

Join the Mate development team, then you can develop the bits you want as you 
want.

Otherwise, put in a wish-bug.  You might be lucky and someone might pick it 
up, if the numbers of those who like the text box do not too greatly 
outnumber you.

Lisi

Re: Oh no something has gone wrong! after reinstalling Debian and Gnome.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 23 May 2017 23:06:44 Felix Miata wrote:
> Anil Duggirala composed on 2017-05-23 11:00 (UTC-0500):
> > Lisi Reisz wrote on 2017-05-23 16:58 (UTC+0100):
> >> What is your graphics card?
> >
> > Im not sure, this is the output from lspci
> > 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Device
> > [8086:22b1] (rev 21)
> > as I posted before.
>
> That's incomplete as before, so we have to look it up.
>
> You were asked:
>
>   inxi -c0 -G
> or
>   inxi -c0 -v1
> or
>   lspci -nnk | grep -A4 'VGA'
>
> Looking up 8086:22b1 finds the keyword Braswell, which provides the all
> important date of introduction of it. It was introduced more than 8 months
> after Jessie, thus not supported by pure Jessie.
>
> Gnome *should* be working fine since he installed Stretch.

He says that it isn't, so there may be a driver missing??  It is hard to tell 
since he is so reluctant to provide information. :-(

Lisi

Re: Oh no something has gone wrong! after reinstalling Debian and Gnome.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 23 May 2017 14:24:49 Anil Duggirala wrote:
> Hello,
> I have upgrade to Stretch, and my system is loading the graphical
> interface (Gnome). However, I believe my graphics are sluggish, video
> playback at some points starts freezing and sometimes just becomes
> unwatchable (it starts using up a lot of CPU power). In the
> recommendations here
> (https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Intel/NUC5PPYH) it says to
> install non-free firmware, the Debian installer asked for
> firmware-realtek, I provided it and I believe that I installed. But what
> non-free firmware could possible correct my graphics problems? what am I
> missing. I am happy my system is working, but graphics work better in
> Windows, and that is morally inacceptable to me.
> thanks a lot,

What is your graphics card?

Lisi
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017, at 09:11 PM, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> > On 05/21/2017 05:24 PM, Anil Duggirala wrote:
> > > Thanks everyone for your responses. I did not expect such quick and
> > > full response. I also really don't believe it has anything to do with
> > > partitioning (Debian deleted the partitions and created exactly
> > > corresponding partitions with guided partitioning).
> > > More info: When I installed initially with LXDE, I had horrible
> > > graphics and no touchpad, upon installing the Linux-image from
> > > backports (4.9), these problems were resolved. I have tried installing
> > > Linux-image 4.9 from backports (using the command line) now again, the
> > > problem persists. However, in the debian-laptop users list, I guy who
> > > said he has the exact same laptop (Asus X441SA) said he is running
> > > Gnome-Classic (Gnome), I have tried asking him if he got this problem
> > > but have received no response from him.
> > > All commands outputs here are in a new installation (I have installed 3
> > > times now), with the regular kernel (3.16)
> > > Outputs:
> > > inxi commands say 'command not found'
> > > lspci  :
> > > 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Device
> > > [8086:22b1] (rev 35)
> > > Subsystem: ASUSTek Computer Inc. Device [1043:1290]
> > > 00:0b.0 Signa processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Device
> > > [8086:22dc] (rev 35)
> > > Subsystem: ASUSTek Computer Inc. Device [1043:1290]
> > > 00:13.0 SATA Controller [0106]: Intel Corporation Device [8086:22a3]
> > > (rev 35)
> > >
> > > I have pasted Xorg log at https://paste.debian.net/933539
> > >
> > > Should I just try Mate or XFCE?? is it possible that works?
> > >
> > > thanks a lot,
> >
> > If you have not already upgraded again, do you have the packages "xorg
> > and dkms" installed. If not install them and reboot.
> > --
> > Jimmy Johnson
> >
> > Debian Sid/Testing - Plasma 5.8.6 - EXT4 at sda15
> > Registered Linux User #380263

Re: Oh no something has gone wrong! after reinstalling Debian and Gnome.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 22 May 2017 15:12:39 Anil Duggirala wrote:
> Thanks a lot Brian, so right after I install I can change all deb lines
> and replace 'testing' with 'stretch' ??

If you are installing from scratch, yes.  If you are upgrading, go straight 
from "stable" or "jessie" to "stretch", and don't bother with "testing".

Lisi

> On Mon, May 22, 2017, at 09:05 AM, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 22 May 2017 at 08:54:59 -0500, Anil Duggirala wrote:
> > > Thanks a lot Felix and Micheal.
> > > I will follow your advice, and for the first time ever, use Debian
> > > Testing. I guess when Stretch is released I will be able to install
> > > that, correct? So I will be able to go back to using a stable release
> >
> > You already have Stretch installed. Ok, it is not yet released as stable
> > but it is nearly there. Make sure your sources.list has stretch and not
> > testing for the deb lines to keep the machine on stable.
> >
> > > right? I'm really afraid of testing, the whole reason I like Debian is
> > > for its stability, but using stable would require me to install various
> > > packages from backports maybe?? I did try installing that newer kernel,
> > > that didn't work.
> >
> > At this stage of the freeze you are not risking much in terms of
> > stability. No need to be afraid.
> >
> > --
> > Brian.

Re: Is this sources.list correct?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 22 May 2017 21:11:48 Michael Milliman wrote:
> On 05/22/2017 06:21 AM, Fungi4All wrote:
> >>  Original Message 
> >> Subject: Re: Is this sources.list correct?
> >> UTC Time: May 22, 2017 6:09 AM
> >> From: compro...@list.comprofix.com
> >> fjfj...@protonmail.com
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 12:45:05AM -0400, Fjfj109 wrote:
> >> > On Stretch, upgraded from Jessie. https://paste.debian.net/933553/
> >>
> >> When updating from Jessie to Stretch. Just replace all the 'Jessie'
> >> references in your /etc/apt/sources.list file to 'Stretch'
> >>
> >> You can do this with a quick sed (backup your sources.list first):
> >>
> >> sed -i 's|jessie|stretch|g' /etc/apt/sources.list
> >>
> >> Your sources look OK. I compared them to a Jessie one that I have and
> >> other than the repo you are referencing looks good.
> >
> > This is an optional addition to consider:
> > http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch-backports/
> >
> > https://backports.debian.org/ read some before you decide
>
> You might also consider adding contrib and/or non-free to the lines in
> your souces.list file.  Many people have issues with non-free,
> nevertheless, there are some packages that are of use in both of these
> sections of the repositories.  Just add the words contrib non-free after
> main in each line (separated by spaces).
>
> >> Thanks
> >> Matt
> >
> > AK

For the archives, since pastes do not endure, this is the sources list:
---
  GNU nano 2.7.4
  
File: /etc/apt/sources.list 
   

# 

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 8.8.0 _Jessie_ - Official amd64 NETINST Binary-1 
20170506-14:10]/ jessie main

#deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 8.8.0 _Jessie_ - Official amd64 NETINST Binary-1 
20170506-14:10]/ jessie main

deb http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ stretch main

deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main


# stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main

---
HTH
Lisi

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 17 May 2017 15:57:29 G wrote:
> I'm thinking installing Debian testing (stretch)on my laptop and then
> follow stretch but i am wondering what will happen when todays Debian
> testing becomes stable. Am i have to reinstall Debian when testing
> becomes stable?

No.

>
> I search around and found this https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
> It has a section "How to use Debian (next-stable) Testing".
>
> So if i understand it right i should:
>
> 1.Install Debian stable

See Darac Marjal's comment.

> 2.Upgrade to testing by editing source.list according to the
> instructions i found on that link.

If you want to stay with stretch, use the option in the instructions to use 
the name stretch in your sources list.

> 3.After Debian stretch becomes stable i should edit again source.list
> file by uncommenting the security updates and other stable specific
> lines that i commented on step 2.

Yes.  And change all references to jessie to stretch.

Lisi

Re: how to copy files

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 14 May 2017 21:57:35 Long Wind wrote:
> I have a folder in hard drive and a backup of it is made in a USB disk
> Now some new files are added to the folder in hard drive
> how to make the folder in USB disk the same as in hard drive?
>
> I want a program that can check the two folders
> if file size and file name are same, they are regarded as same
> if not, update is needed
>
> I have try rsync, but can't find such options

cp -Rpu /home/. /backup/

will copy only new stiff, but all new stuff.

That is for everything in home.  But you could do the same for one folder or 
sub-folder, or one user.

Lisi

Re: How to run Debian from SD card but booting from USB stick?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 11 May 2017 21:58:09 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > FromSD) and I'm wondering if it
> > will work for Debian.
>
> Your URL is garbled. I tried some quick fixes but didn't work.

Works fine for me. :-/

Lisi

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 08 May 2017 00:45:34 Michael Milliman wrote:
> Many people also run Experimental
> (Sid) for the benefit of bleeding-edge versions of software, but a lot
> of instability (in all senses of the word).

No, Sid is not the same as Experimental.  Sid is Unstable.  Then there is also 
Experimental, which cannot actually be run, but from which packages can be 
taken (if you like to live dangerously ;-)  )

Lisi

Re: Only root can write on USB disk

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 04 May 2017 16:22:46 Mostafa Shahverdy wrote:
> > In my /etc/fstab, I add lines for the drives and put 'user' in the
> > options:
> >
> > LABEL=  auto  noauto,user,rw,exec   0  0
>
> I played with fstab as far as I could, and still no luck. It is still
> owned by root. I also found that there are some errors in my dmesg:
[snip]
> this is my fstab line:
>
>
> /dev/sdh1 /media/mostafa/flash_h1 auto user,rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime 0 0

it doesn't include what Greg suggested.  He suggested:
"-o uid=youruser"

You have auto user and nosuid.  Those more knowledgeable than I will have to 
tell you exactly how to integrate Greg's advice.  I would almost certainly 
get it wrong!

Lisi

Re: Alternative for printer-driver-cups-pdf?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 02 May 2017 19:04:55 Felix Natter wrote:
> I tried renaming the file to freeplane.ps, and get the same result when
> viewing with evince ;-)

Renaming is generally a waste of time in Linux, which looks at the file not 
the file extension.  You are thinking of Another OS. ;-)

Lisi

Re: converting my local site to be https only access

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 01 May 2017 01:19:21 david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> Development of lynx continues unabated:
>
>   http://invisible-island.net/lynx/lynx-develop.html

The most recent reference seems to be to 2015:
"Finally (as of 2015)  "

Lisi

Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 26 April 2017 15:36:36 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 04/26/2017 07:50 AM, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 08:35:44AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 01:25:18PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> >>> For interface statistics from ip, try "ip -s link [interface]".
> >>
> >> On stretch:
> >>
> >> wooledg:~$ ip -s link eth0
> >> Command "eth0" is unknown, try "ip link help".
> >>
> >> wooledg:~$ ip -s link dev eth0
> >> Command "dev" is unknown, try "ip link help".
> >>
> >> wooledg:~$ ip link help
> >> [... enormous BNF dump, entirely missing -s, or any reference whatsoever
> >> to the fact that you can stick options between "ip" and "link" ...]
> >>
> >> wooledg:~$ ip -s link show eth0
> >> 2: eth0:  mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast
> >> state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
> >>link/ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> >>RX: bytes  packets  errors  dropped overrun mcast
> >>380719013  1442490  0   0   0   4731
> >>TX: bytes  packets  errors  dropped carrier collsns
> >>57971257   614586   0   0   0   0
> >>
> >> Aha!
> >
> > My bad. I actually only got as far as discovering "ip -s link" on my own
> > system. As I was typing up the email I remembered that Richard was after
> > statistics for a specific interface. I should have been more diligent in
> > working out the correct format.
> >
> >> (Sadly, this is my *typical* experience with the ip command -- trying
> >> random things until one of them works, because the documentation
> >> is impenetrable, and the syntax barely guessable, and certainly not
> >> predictable.)
> >
> > ip *could* do a lot better, it's true. As a monolithic tool, there's not
> > really much excuse for the different sub-tools to parse the commands
> > differently. As you say, "ip address" expects the device to be expressed
> > as "dev eth0", so why doesn't "ip link" handle it the same way? I don't
> > know.
>
> I would go further saying iproute2 is non-functional due to being
> functionally un-documented.
>
> https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/iproute2/ip.8.en.html is useless.
>
> Functional commands, for this thread's topic would be
>ip -s link
> or
>ip -s link ls usb0
>
> No hint of either in so-called man page.
>
> I accidentally discovered it by following up links when doing DuckDuckGo
> search for "documentation iproute2" (w/o quotes).
>
> I then did another netinst of testing. There is some subset of the "ip"
> command available after the network has been configured. The help is too
> abbreviated to be useful.

But did /sbin/ifconfig work?

Lisi

Re: No sound-inputs but sound recording FMIT

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 04 March 2017 13:32:28 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 03, 2017 02:53:26 PM The Wanderer wrote:
> > Because hitting New means you have to put in the To address, but hitting
> > Reply means the address is already there and you can just start typing
> > your message (and possibly delete the quoted text, change the Subject
> > line, et cetera).
> >
> > Yes, this apparently is enough of a convenience factor to affect
> > people's behavior.
>
> Just to add $0.02 (I don't know who it belongs to, so didn't call it "my
> $0.02")--in kmail, just right click on the address to which you want to
> send the new email, and choose "New Message to" from the context menu...

Or, in KMail-Trinity, left click on the address, et voilà!  A _new_, correctly 
addressed message with a pristine subject line.

Lisi

Re: unattended upgrades does not do anything

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 18 April 2017 15:55:25 Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> If you Lisi revisit this and it doesn't work, I could try to help.

Thanks, Jonathan.  I may therefore revisit it later this week! :-)

Lisi

Re: Possibly erroneous "device not present" message during boot

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 17 April 2017 23:04:57 Richard Owlett wrote:
> Please note my usage of "criterion" rather than "criteria".

Sorry Richard.  I would certainly have noted if you hadn't.  It would have 
screamed at me.  I'm afraid that I don't always notice in passing when words 
are used correctly!  Nor do I see any need to note, as requested, that you 
know the difference between one and more of something. ;-)

Lisi

Re: RTL8111 Networking Drivers

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 17 April 2017 17:28:00 GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> Ron Bales:
> > Yeah just hope'n someone could get a line in
>
> This is an English users list, please translate hope'n for us dear!
>
> Old timers ganging up against the newbie is the oldest trick on the book
> to avoid responding to criticism.

You do realise that Ron is the OP of this thread, and presumably even more new 
that yourself?

Lisi

Re: RTL8111 Networking Drivers

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 17 April 2017 17:25:00 GiaThnYgeia wrote:
>  Political
> responsibility lies on the organization to respond to criticism or allow
> it to rest as valid and unanswered.

You seem to labour under the delusion that there is an organisation 
called "Debian", which could, if it wished, respond to you.  Debian consists 
in and comprises its community.  Part of that community is trying, very 
unsuccessfully, to communicate with you, and has responded frequently.  You 
choose to discount those responses.  That is your prerogative.  But you are 
getting responses.

You also seem to labour under the delusion that ad hominem attack somehow 
proves your point.

This is one of those (few) times when it is a pity that this list isn't 
moderated.

Lisi

Re: RTL8111 Networking Drivers

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 16 April 2017 15:12:14 Ron Bales wrote:
> Why do you not include the drivers for RTL8111 I have not used Mint for
> years because the network never worked I found the drivers and installed
> them but way to much trouble I was getting ready to give up for good and
> found the instructions to install. The network works fine in Ubuntu?

The reason that Debian does not include the drivers for RTL8111 in whichever 
installer you used (you do not say which it was) will be that RTL8111 
requires a non-free driver and Debian includes only free software by default.  
There are ways round this, but you don't give enough information.

Many other distributions do include some non-free firmware by default.

As has been pointed out, Debian is neither a person, nor an organisation.

HTH
Lisi

Re: Almost all gpg2 operations hang after upgrade to stretch/testing

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 06 April 2017 19:41:15 Richard Owlett wrote:
> I've been avoiding Google for personal reasons and using DuckDuckGo
> instead. DuckDuckGo does not return that page - I'd assumed the two
> search engines were equally productive.

No, they are not.  That is why some of us sadly use Google - it has a LOT of 
faults and problems, but it is a superb search engine.

Morally, of course, DuckDuckGo wins.

Lisi

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 12 April 2017 23:42:00 GiaThnYgeia wrote:
>  Do I strike you
> like a person needing to hold hands with anyone?

Very much so.

Lisi

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 12 April 2017 20:42:37 David Wright wrote:
> > If you like to contribute to my lack of understanding and possibly
> > unsubstantiated criticism, help me understand the hierarchy.  Who, and
> > how are they are selected, make the decisions and how do they relate to
> > those that do the work, and how do they all relate to those who for 2
> > decades have been employing the system and feedback with problems and
> > bugs.
>
> All this information is availble on the web, so I don't know why you
> want me to paraphrase it for you.

I had already looked these up for Kat, but accidentally sent them to her 
off-list.  (I must have pressed r not l)  Here they are again, Kat:  In fact, 
here is the whole of the post I sent off-list by mistake. 
 
On Wednesday 12 April 2017 17:40:00 GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> David Wright:
> >> Has Debian always been this crazy and am I so new to this madness?
> >
> > If you don't like it, you're free to look elsewhere for a distribution
> > that better suits you.
>
> Are you mr.Debian?  Under what authority are you telling me to either
> shut up or leave?  What makes you more Debian than me?

He is knowledgeable, helps on this list and has been using it for a long time.

> Why don't you 
> leave if you don't like criticism?
> If there is reason for madness, in which I accept I am new to, I will
> have to discover it.  Saying that simply madness is normal and whoever
> does not like it should leave doesn't justify madness.
> If you like to contribute to my lack of understanding and possibly
> unsubstantiated criticism, help me understand the hierarchy. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Debian_project_leaders
https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Social_Contract
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Free_Software_Guidelines

GIYF.  Do try to use the occasional accurate fact.

As David says, If you don't like Debian, use something else.  If you do like 
Debian, use it.  But do stop winging and blaming Debian for all your own 
mistakes.

> Who, and 
> how are they are selected, make the decisions and how do they relate to
> those that do the work, and how do they all relate to those who for 2
> decades have been employing the system and feedback with problems and bugs.

See above.  Why don't you EVER try to get some facts?  Just Google 
occasionally.

Lisi

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 11 April 2017 13:54:50 Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> 'They' never told us, owners of single user laptops, why we should chose
> >> it.

Because they don't care whether you chose it or not?  Debian offers 
alternatives, but had to chose a default.  Other distros have made their 
choice.  Ubuntu has chosen - of course - to go where the money is.

No-one cares what Richard Owlett - or Lisi Reisz - has chosen for his (her) 
laptop.  And why should anyone?

Lisi

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 09 April 2017 22:39:50 Miles Fidelman wrote:
> On 4/9/17 4:15 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > After much reading, I consider systemd more suited to large, busy
> > servers than a desktop box or notebook with just one user.  It's
> > like being forced to use a huge tractor-trailer rig with lots of chrome
> > and lights and 24 gears when a simple mini-van will do. ;-)
>
> Funny thing.  As far as I can tell, those of us who run production
> servers are the ones who are most disturbed by the ways that systemd
> wends its way into all aspects of a system.

Yes, ISTR being told during the flame wars that systemd was great for desktops 
because it speeded up the boot process, but, just possibly, not so good for 
servers.

My own experience is sadly the exact opposite.  I find it very slow, including 
some very awkward hangs.

Still, I shall just have to add the vagaries of systemd to the many things I 
need to learn urgently!

Lisi

Re: Installer: problem installing onto LVM on RAID1

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 09 April 2017 18:43:32 Ron Leach wrote:
> While trying to install Debian 7.11

Why are you installing Wheezy?

Lisi

Re: info

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 09 April 2017 12:14:16 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 04/08/2017 05:21 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Saturday 08 April 2017 23:12:15 darkestkhan wrote:
> >> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 8:58 PM, domenico cop <domenic...@yahoo.it> wrote:
> >>> hi. I am a consumer microsoft from little past to linux. but how much
> >>> confusion that us. thousand distributions thousand names. it should
> >>> take only a name with at the most 5 or 6 versions of desktop. will it
> >>> be the monopoly microsoft that makes you divide? however my question is
> >>> this: among all the desktops (kde gnome etc) which are those that have
> >>> the toolbar in low or that however through formulations they allow to
> >>> put her/it in low? I know the lxde because it is that what time I use.
> >>> however I would want to know the situation of the other desktops
> >>> regarding the position of such bar. wishes and graces. but you are
> >>> united. and fairies of the files that contain all the dependences (like
> >>> .exe or .mac). this way that each chooses whether to install them or
> >>> rather through synaptic and connection internet or offline.
> >>
> >> KDE has [at least as configured by red hat] toolbar at bottom of
> >> screen. XFCE can be easily configured that way.
> >
> > TDE also - yoyu can have the panel wherever you want it.
>
> Add MATE to the list.
> I suggest obtaining a Live-CD for each of several Desktop Environments.
> You may that another feature of a specific DE will rise in importance.
> These may downloaded
>   { https://www.debian.org/CD/live/ }
> or purchased
>   { https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ }.
> In a quick search I did not find a Debian Live-CD for TDE.

Simply for trying the desktop, there is the Devuan one (which is what became 
of the Debian one!):
http://exegnulinux.net/

> However there is one for Ubuntu (a Debian derivative) which should serve
> for a "test drive" of the DE
>   { https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs }.

Which is referenced here by its own name - Exe GNU-Linux.  When I first saw it 
I wondered why a Linux distro was named after a Windows binary.  The answer 
is, it isn't.  It is named after the River Exe in Devon, England.

Thanks for that link Richard - I was about to supply it, as I should have done 
in the first place, but lo! you have done so.

Lisi
> >> One catch though: I can't understand your last sentence. Can you clarify
> >> it?
> >
> > Ditto, sorry.
> >
> > Lisi

Re: info

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 08 April 2017 23:12:15 darkestkhan wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 8:58 PM, domenico cop  wrote:
> > hi. I am a consumer microsoft from little past to linux. but how much
> > confusion that us. thousand distributions thousand names. it should take
> > only a name with at the most 5 or 6 versions of desktop. will it be the
> > monopoly microsoft that makes you divide? however my question is this:
> > among all the desktops (kde gnome etc) which are those that have the
> > toolbar in low or that however through formulations they allow to put
> > her/it in low? I know the lxde because it is that what time I use.
> > however I would want to know the situation of the other desktops
> > regarding the position of such bar. wishes and graces. but you are
> > united. and fairies of the files that contain all the dependences (like
> > .exe or .mac). this way that each chooses whether to install them or
> > rather through synaptic and connection internet or offline.
>
> KDE has [at least as configured by red hat] toolbar at bottom of
> screen. XFCE can be easily configured that way.

TDE also - yoyu can have the panel wherever you want it.
>
> One catch though: I can't understand your last sentence. Can you clarify
> it?

Ditto, sorry.

Lisi

Re: unattended upgrades does not do anything

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 05 April 2017 21:26:16 Erwan David wrote:
> Le 04/05/17 à 21:59, Tom Dial a écrit :
> > On 04/05/2017 10:22 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >> On Wednesday 05 April 2017 15:46:53 Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 10:26:18PM +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> >>>> I am going to have a go at getting unattended-upgrades to work
> >>>> sometime in the next few days, I will post back what my results, even
> >>>> if the only thing that results is sympathy for your situation and a
> >>>> "me-too!"
> >>>
> >>> I have a working unattended-upgrades setup, I will try and remember
> >>> what I had to do.
> >>
> >> Thank you!
> >>
> >> Lisi
> >
> > I know I am quite late to the party, but has
> >
> > https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
> >
> > been offered as a possible answer? I have used it as a guide for
> > unattended-upgrades setup on a sizable handful of systems, and with
> > uniform success. As I recall it, install defaults apply only security
> > upgrades, and of course require that /etc/apt/sources.list include the
> > version appropriate reference to security.debian.org -
> >
> > deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free
> >
> > for example.
> >
> > Tom Dial
> > td...@acm.org
>
> If I recall correctly unattended-upgrades needs to be reconfigured
> (through dpkg-reconfigure) for applying upgrades.

That has also been said!

Lisi

Re: unattended upgrades does not do anything

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 05 April 2017 20:59:02 Tom Dial wrote:
> On 04/05/2017 10:22 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 05 April 2017 15:46:53 Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> >> On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 10:26:18PM +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> >>> I am going to have a go at getting unattended-upgrades to work sometime
> >>> in the next few days, I will post back what my results, even if the
> >>> only thing that results is sympathy for your situation and a "me-too!"
> >>
> >> I have a working unattended-upgrades setup, I will try and remember what
> >> I had to do.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Lisi
>
> I know I am quite late to the party, but has
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
>
> been offered as a possible answer?
yes, several times!!

> I have used it as a guide for 
> unattended-upgrades setup on a sizable handful of systems, and with
> uniform success. As I recall it, install defaults apply only security
> upgrades, and of course require that /etc/apt/sources.list include the
> version appropriate reference to security.debian.org -
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main contrib non-free
>
> for example.

Yes.

Perhaps there is a recent temporary bug in it??  As I said, I had a short-term 
use for it and have moved on.  Though I might want to look again if I could 
do so quickly.

Lisi
>
> Tom Dial
> td...@acm.org

Re: unattended upgrades does not do anything

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 05 April 2017 15:46:53 Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 10:26:18PM +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > I am going to have a go at getting unattended-upgrades to work sometime
> > in the next few days, I will post back what my results, even if the only
> > thing that results is sympathy for your situation and a "me-too!"
>
> I have a working unattended-upgrades setup, I will try and remember what I
> had to do.

Thank you!

Lisi

Re: unattended upgrades does not do anything

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 04 April 2017 20:29:26 Gregor Zattler wrote:
> Hi Mark, debian users,
>
> * Mark Fletcher  [2017-04-03; 21:08]:
> > On Sat, Apr 01, 2017 at 06:04:16PM +0200, Gregor Zattler wrote:
> > There's another thread recently (during March, I think) on this mailing
> > list about the same subject. The gyst is you need to do a
> > dpkg-reconfigure unattended-upgrades after installation to create some
> > config files needed to make the upgrades actually happen.
>
> Yupp, I read this then and I did the dpkg-reconfigure to no
> avail.  On April 2nd at 11:19 local time I purged and reinstalled
> unattended-upgrades.  According to the log file
> unattended-upgrade run on April, 2nd at 11:20 local time but did
> not find anything to upgrade.  But actually there was a security
> announcement on March, 28th and when I do apt-get update; apt-get
> upgrade manually apt proposes to upgrade the eject package.  And:
> unattended upgrades did not run yesterday or today.
>
> This is all very strange.
>
> Ciao; Gregor

As the OP of the above mentioned earlier thread I should point out that I have 
not got unattended-upgrades working either.  But I only wanted it as a 
temporary solution, so I have given up.

Lisi

Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 03 April 2017 13:55:44 Michael Fothergill wrote:
> I think choice in food is important - e.g. flavours of spam:
>
> Closed Source:
>
> Regular Spam Hot & Spicy Spam Jalapeño Spam Spam with Black Pepper Low
[snip etc. ]
> Open Source
>
> Systemd Spam
> Openrc Spam
>
> etc

Not all discussion of systemd is automatically spam.  For a long time any 
mention was flame and spam bait whether intended as such or not.

But there are legitimate questions about the init system and how to use it 
which it is legitimate to ask on  this list.  I have highlighted and marked 
as important one of the answers to this in this thread. Some of us need to 
know.  Some of us have problems.  It can't be the one topic one is never 
allowed to discuss at all.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 21:23:21 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 4/1/17, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz <cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz> wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 03:33:08PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >> In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and
> >> helping
> >> newbies ...
> >
> > I'm not sure those two concepts are related. My understanding of Debian
> > being the universal operating system is that it can run on as many
> > hardware platforms as possible, not that it is universally accessible by
> > all and sundry, although I guess if that also occurs then it's an added
> > bonus. :)
>
> They *are* working on Debian *usability*... VERY actively:
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/
>
> :)
>
> Cindy :)

Accessibility generally means for disabled people, not newbies.  It is a 
different thing.

Lisi

Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 19:55:22 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 04/01/2017 06:08 AM, cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 06:47:06AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> >> On 03/14/2017 09:57 PM, Dean Valentine wrote:
> >>> I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> >>> Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and
> >>> using my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on
> >>> lspci, but when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it
> >>> fails and tells me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use
> >>> the ISO you've provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into
> >>> it here: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but
> >>> that couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I
> >>> think I see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> >>>
> >>> What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> >>> drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not
> >>> in Debian's isos for some reason.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> You didn't read that page.
> >
> > I wonder what page that would be.
>
> The above link.
>
> > Here's the link you want:
> >> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firm
> >>ware/
> >
> > I was wondering what a field engineer is, is it a fancy term for a
> > farmer?
>
> I'm on the list, reply to the list.
> Ask a proper question and get a proper answer.
> Google is your friend.

Or try wikipedia,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer
(I looked up "field engineer")

Lisi

> Stupid Is As Stupid Does - Forrest Gump.

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 18:59:48 cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 03:33:08PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and
> > helping newbies ...
>
> I'm not sure those two concepts are related. My understanding of Debian
> being the universal operating system is that it can run on as many
> hardware platforms as possible, not that it is universally accessible by
> all and sundry, although I guess if that also occurs then it's an added
> bonus. :)

I agree with you.  But I was being told that that view is elitist, in a world 
in which elite is a very pejorative word.

Lisi

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 18:11:12 Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2017-03-31, Lisi Reisz <lisi.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> > We are part of the same sovereign state, but 4 nations.
>
> When you consider some of the Irish, yes. Most Irish people live in a
> different sovereign state.

Agreed!!!  But the United Kingdom has 4 nations in it.  It is one Sovereign 
State (for a little while longer anyway) but 4 nations.  The fact that one of 
those nations has temporarily been split in two by history is a separate 
issue. You surely wouldn't dispute that it is a discrete nation?

Lisi

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 31 March 2017 22:53:00 kAt wrote:
> As there is a domination of the
> industrial North and elitism against the dominated South.

Not here  The non-industrial white collar south-east dominates the 
industrial north economically.  The Northern Powerhub is so far a figment of 
the politicians' imaginations.  Banks trump factories.

Lisi

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 31 March 2017 15:43:50 Stefan Monnier wrote:
> I tried "aptitude install Thursday" and that failed miserably.
> Then I tried with `apt-get`: same result.
>
> The worst part is that I get the same kinds of failures when I try
> "aptitude install this Thursday" or "aptitude install next Thursday".
>
>
> Stefan "confused about this Debian thing"

:-)  Sorry.

One of the best tempered reasonable objections I recall seeing.

Lisi

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 31 March 2017 15:15:46 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2017 09:34:26 AM Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Friday 31 March 2017 14:04:03 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > To specify the Thursday before the last Thursday, use something like:
> > > "the Thursday before last Thursday".
> > >
> > > To specify the Thursday after the coming Thursday, use something like:
> > > "the Thursday after next Thursday".
> >
> > Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that way!!!
> > Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree. 
> > When I say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says
> > next Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday. 
> > We are both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.
>
> And you're still married? ;-)
>
> > And let us clear up another misunderstanding while we are at it.  The
> > other side of the pond you appear to be under a delusion that there is
> > such a thing as British anything, including English.  Try telling that to
> > the Welsh, the Irish and the Scots!
>
> Similar to the situation on this side of the pond, for example north and
> south, or New England, California, Pennsylvania Dutch ("throw your father
> down the stairs his hat" ;-),  and other parts of the US (or Canada).

Not quite.  California and New England are, so far, part of the same nation.  
We are part of the same sovereign state, but 4 nations.

Lisi

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 31 March 2017 14:04:03 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> To specify the Thursday before the last Thursday, use something like: "the
> Thursday before last Thursday".
>
> To specify the Thursday after the coming Thursday, use something like: "the
> Thursday after next Thursday".

Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that way!!!  
Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree.  When I 
say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says next 
Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday.  We are 
both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.

And let us clear up another misunderstanding while we are at it.  The other 
side of the pond you appear to be under a delusion that there is such a thing 
as British anything, including English.  Try telling that to the Welsh, the 
Irish and the Scots! 

Lisi

Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 30 March 2017 21:22:57 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> This reminds me of the time a professor gave a coding assignment on
> Tuesday, due "next Thursday." To most of the class that meant in 2 days,
> rather than next week. Hilarity ensued. But I think the Brits have it
> right, with "Thursday" meaning in two days, and "Thursday next" meaning
> next week. (I may be imagining this difference in clarity, though.)

All the Brits I know say "next Thursday" with exactly the ambiguity mentioned.

Cue every Brit who disagrees, from among the very large number of Brits whom I 
do not know!!

Lisi

Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 30 March 2017 18:43:00 kAt wrote:
> In any case, looking "down" on people due to their origin

One of the geographical meanings of "down" in English English is "South" .

"South (as south is at the bottom of typical maps).
I went down to Miami for a conference."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/down

If one takes Yankee to mean New Yorker, then surely North Carolina is down??

We have country bumpkins in the Home Counties.  And is London "up" or "down" 
from York?

Lisi

‎

Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 29 March 2017 20:46:00 kAt wrote:
> What do you mean down?  You arrogant yankee?

Don't Yankees come from the United States??  Or is Curt an expat??

Lisi

Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 12:11:00 Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:27:47AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > Brian, I squirmed.  "Data is" ... I can just about handle.  I CANNOT
> > (yes, I can shout too!) handle "agenda is".  Agenda are always more
> > than one thing.
>
> That is not how the word is used in current English.  Just run "dict
> agenda" on Debian (if dict is installed), and it'll show you several
> definitions, from several different sources, most of them showing "agenda"
> as a singular noun.
>
> The only source that shows it as a plural is the venerable 1913 Webster
> (the last time a published work in the USA entered the public domain;
> thanks, Disney).  At some point in the last 104 years, the word's usage
> has evolved.  Sorry, but that happens from time to time.

I'm still allowed to squirm.  It was Brian after all.  And Brian was himself 
objecting to the (mis)use of "data", which I am sure that you can justify 
along the same lines.

Yes, of course many people currently talk in a sloppy manner.  But not Brian.  

My cool drinks are cold, not fashionable, and when I say that a fairy 
godmother is wicked it is not a compliment.

Lisi

Re: repairing damage to package manager

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 19:57:56 Chuck Hallenbeck wrote:
> One more O.T. observation: Debian let me do a truly dumb thing, but I
> wouldn't have it any other way.

:-)))  +1

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 18:25:30 Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 15:18:31 +
>
> Lisi Reisz <lisi.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday 24 March 2017 12:06:58 Joe wrote:
> > > I've mentioned recently that I once did a non-expert netinstall, in
> > > the days when I used static addresses and no DHCP, and was miffed
> > > to find I had no network interfaces at the end of the process.
> >
> > Until fairly recently I have always had static IPs and chosen to use
> > static IPs.  I have always been able to tell the installer so, and
> > have ended up with a properly configured network and a well-written
> > network interfaces file.
>
> a) Is this with a not-expert installation?

I used to chose "expert" long enough to chose a non-default DE, when that was 
how one had to do it, but it then went back to the "automatic" installation 
unless one went backwards at any stage.  (One chose expert install, chose a 
DE, clicked "install", the installer took over.)  Perhaps choosing a 
different DE affected how the installer ran.  I could never see why not 
wanting Gnome counted as expert and always thought that a lot of non-experts 
who didn't want Gnome, must have got landed with it, for fear of asking for 
an expert install, even briefly.

>  and
> b) Even though you did not use it, was a DHCP server running in the
> network?

Yes.

> I've no idea if it is true today, but when this incident happened, the
> combination of non-expert and no DHCP server detected resulted in no
> network drivers being loaded, even though the network had been used
> during installation.
>
> When I reported it as a bug I was told it was not, it was a feature.
> Presumably only experts understand network configuration. I've always
> used expert mode before and since, but on that occasion it was some kind
> of temporary installation and I thought that non-expert ought to take
> care of it.
I am sure that something similar came up recently with the Live CD.  I am 
obviously lucky that it didn't happen!  Maybe it was to do with which 
driver(s) were needed.

Lisi

Re: Unattended upgrades.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 17:34:58 Teemu Likonen wrote:
> Lisi Reisz [2017-03-24 17:13:21Z] wrote:
> > On Friday 24 March 2017 09:56:23 didier gaumet wrote:
> >> # dpkg-reconfigure -plow unattended-upgrades
> >
> > This is what I had missed!  I have now run it.
>
> The command creates file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades:
>
> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
>
> And that makes unattended-upgrade run daily. (As I wrote in my earlier
> message.)
>
> Actually it's the cron (Debian 8) or systemd unit
> apt-daily.{timer,service} (Debian 9) that runs a script that in turn
> will run unattended-upgrade if those APT::Periodic settings are set.

Yes, thank you Teemu for your advice.

Lisi

Re: Unattended upgrades.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 09:56:23 didier gaumet wrote:
> Le 24/03/2017 à 09:41, Lisi Reisz a écrit :
> [...]
>
> > Let's start with the file you mention:
> > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades It isn't there.
>
> the Debian wiki indicates that it has to be created, either by typing a
> content in an editor or you can symply type as root:
> # dpkg-reconfigure -plow unattended-upgrades

This is what I had missed!  I have now run it.

> > lisi@Eros:~$ su
> > Password:
> > root@Eros:/home/lisi# unattended-upgrades
> > root@Eros:/home/lisi#
> >
> > What has that done?  I can verify nothing because I can't see what it has
> > or has not done.  It took a long while doing it, but appears to have dome
> > nothing.
>
> unattended-upgrades is not intended to be interactive (all benefit would
> be lost), so it does not display anything.
> if you want to observe how unattended-upgrades has run, you may examine
> the content of:
> /var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades.log
> /var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades-dpkg.log

This I had seen, but not "got" anywhere with them before.  Having run 
# dpkg-reconfigure -plow unattended-upgrades
unattended-upgrades.log exists and is not empty.
/var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades-dpkg.log
still does not exist, but it has clearly not yet been called for.  Hopefully 
it will tell me when unattended-upgrades has run.

> > If I have to run it myself, then it isn't working.  The whole point, from
> > my point of view, is for it to work unattended.
>
> you do not have to run unattended-upgrades yourself: I was suggesting to
> run unattended-upgrades yourself just un order to verify it runs when
> called.
>
> to work unattended, unattended-upgaded has:
> - to be installed
> - to be told what and how to upgrade (that is the role of
> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades)
> - to be told when to upgrade (that is the role of
> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades), else it never runs.
>
> > I have clearly completely misunderstood what unattended-upgrades is
> > intended to do.  If it won't work automatically but requires me to run
> > it, in what sense is it unattended?  It said that it runs by default.  I
> > have obviously misunderstood what "run" means in this context.
> >
> > As I said above, /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades doesn't exist.
> >
> > That is what I have been trying unsuccessfully to achieve.  If the
> > defaults work fine, then what are they doing?  If I need to run it, in
> > what way is it any different from or preferable to any other method of
> > running upgrades?
> >
> > So, to summarise, it is my expectations that are at fault.
> > Unattended-upgrades does not by default run unattended.  One has to set
> > up a cron job or something.
> >
> > Having been reading the file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades,
> > which does exist, I have come to the conclusion that sadly this is all
> > well above my pay-grade anyway.
>
> I would summarize it differently: installing unattended-upgrades is not
> sufficient, it has to be set-up and its default setup is valid for a
> reasonable goal.

Yes.  Thank you.  I had not succeeded in setting it up.  let us hope that I 
have now.

> For basic needs (automatic upgrades of security fixes for the stable
> channel of Debian):
> # apt-get install unattended-upgrades
> # dpkg-reconfigure -plow unattended-upgrades
> is sufficient.

Fingers crossed, all is now well.  Thank you.

> If you have different or mode elaborate needs, you have to fiddle with
> the set-up.
>
> There are other ways of getting automatic upgrades, the only one I have
> tested is cron-apt and I reckon unattended-upgrades is probably simpler.

Thank you for your help.  Let us hope that all is now well!  I shall have to 
leave my desktop un-upgraded for a bit in order to see - I normally check for 
upgrades frequently.
>
> NOTE: It appears that upgrade-system is a package that could interest
> you: having looked quickly at it (but having never tested it), it seems
> to require no set-up, just to be installed, to automatically upgrade all
> packages to their newest version available (do not forget to do an
> apt-get purge unattended-upgrades, it would be cleaner that way).

No, this is the "Ubuntu way" that I specifically wanted to avoid.  When all 
updating is set up up to run automatically in this way.

I dislike any and all automatic upgrades.  I have no doubt that I could use 
them to get myself, or anyone else, in an infernal mess.  I have however got 
a particular problem at the moment, and after the discussion on the list 
about the fact that unattended-upgrades are now in

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 12:06:58 Joe wrote:
> I've mentioned recently that I once did a non-expert netinstall, in the
> days when I used static addresses and no DHCP, and was miffed to find I
> had no network interfaces at the end of the process.

Until fairly recently I have always had static IPs and chosen to use static 
IPs.  I have always been able to tell the installer so, and have ended up 
with a properly configured network and a well-written network interfaces 
file.

I now use DHCP with addresses fixed in the router via MAC address, so this 
doesn't arise.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 12:06:58 Joe wrote:
> the user
> should be notified and asked whether to continue.

The user *is* notified and asked whether to continue.  The user is not 
*prevented* from continuing, should he or she be perverse enough to wish to 
do so.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 12:07:59 Richard Owlett wrote:
> It might be just the ticket for some
> of my minimalist experiments.

;-)

It would.  The other minimalist install media have mostly gone by the board. 

I have just checked, and amazingly LNX-BBC (Linux Bootable Business Card) and 
DSL (Damn Small Linux) seem still to be alive and kicking.  And to need a CD 
or a USB stick.

Not all old computers will boot from a USB stick, Richard.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 24 March 2017 10:20:46 Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:07:22AM +0100, Mart van de Wege wrote:
> > I disagree. Sometimes there is no disagreement, someone is just plain
> > wrong. Catherine has been given the use cases that disprove her thesis,
> > and has been contradicting herself.
>
> Catherine's *suggestion* has been shot down for causing problems for some
> use-cases; but the problem she wants to address still exists and is still
> in need of a solution. I see very little interest here in people actually
> addressing the problem (except Catherine); just a lot of "Get off my
> lawn"-style posts, and a propensity of people to misprepresent *their*
> opinion with that of the project as a whole.
>
> > if they insist on not wanting to be educated
>
> Interestingly that's exactly how I'd characterize most of the responses
> *to* Catherine; deaf ears to the problem, due to dissatisafaction with a
> proposed solution.
>
> > at a certain point you must simply wash
> > your hands of them. It's not nice, but it *is* constructive.
>
> "Washing your hands" is deleting the thread and moving on; it's not posting
> aggressive, toxic messages.

What we have *all* been losing sight of in this thread is that none of us can 
do anything about it anyway.  An installer proposal needs making to the 
installer developers.

Lisi

Re: Unattended upgrades. Debian methods, please, not Ubuntu.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 23 March 2017 04:26:17 Teemu Likonen wrote:
> Lisi Reisz [2017-03-22 00:37:18Z] wrote:
> > How do I get unattended upgrades a) to function and b) to tell me when
> > it has upgraded something.
>
> Probably you need to add the following lines in the top of
> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades file (or some other file in
> the same directory).
>
> APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
> APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
> APT::Periodic::CleanInterval "1";
>
> Systemd timer and service apt-daily.{timer,service} runs daily but if a
> laptop is on battery power the service unit doesn't do anything. That's
> easy to override on Debian 9 but requires an uglier hack on Debian 8.

Thank you, Teemu.  I haven't yet tried that, but intend doing so.  

Lisi

Re: Unattended upgrades.

[Lisi Reisz]

Thank you for your further response.  I have tried to answer your questions, 
which will show you that I am completely at sea.

On Thursday 23 March 2017 09:03:01 didier gaumet wrote:
> Le 23/03/2017 à 02:06, Lisi Reisz a écrit :
> > Thank you.  Yes, I have read and tried to follow it.  I quote:
> > -
> > To install these packages, run the following command as root:
> >
> > # apt-get install unattended-upgrades apt-listchanges
> > The default configuration file for the unattended-upgrades package is
> > at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. The defaults will work
> > fine, but you should read it and make changes as needed.
> >
> > # editor /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades
> > -
> >
> > It clearly says that the defaults will work fine.  They don't.  They
> > don't seem to work at all, in fact most of the files don't seem to be
> > there.
>
> I don't really understand: what files are not there that should be there?

Let's start with the file you mention: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades   
It isn't there.

> > I have tried to read and follow the whole thing.  I have googled for
> > other things.  I have got no-where.  So any more useful pointers would be
> > greatly welcomed.
>
> the part of the procedure you quoted is the installation of
> unattended-upgrades: you can verify that unattended-upgrades is working
> the way you want simply by running it as root in console.

lisi@Eros:~$ su
Password:
root@Eros:/home/lisi# unattended-upgrades
root@Eros:/home/lisi#

What has that done?  I can verify nothing because I can't see what it has or 
has not done.  It took a long while doing it, but appears to have dome 
nothing.

> this part of 
> the procedure does not automatize anything, so if you do not run
> yourself unattended-upgrades you may have the false impression that it
> is not working.

If I have to run it myself, then it isn't working.  The whole point, from my 
point of view, is for it to work unattended.

> did you follow the rest of the procedure, and which part, in order to
> automatize the execution of unattended-upgrades? what is the content of
> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades ?

I have clearly completely misunderstood what unattended-upgrades is intended 
to do.  If it won't work automatically but requires me to run it, in what 
sense is it unattended?  It said that it runs by default.  I have obviously 
misunderstood what "run" means in this context.

As I said above, /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades doesn't exist.

> also, I seem to remember that the default set-up for unattended-upgrades
> is upgrading only security issues for the stable channel.

That is what I have been trying unsuccessfully to achieve.  If the defaults 
work fine, then what are they doing?  If I need to run it, in what way is it 
any different from or preferable to any other method of running upgrades?

> If you want 
> something like proposed updates or follow testing or unstable channels,
> you have to alter the default set-up

So, to summarise, it is my expectations that are at fault.  
Unattended-upgrades does not by default run unattended.  One has to set up a 
cron job or something.

Having been reading the file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades, which 
does exist, I have come to the conclusion that sadly this is all well above 
my pay-grade anyway.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 23 March 2017 22:54:13 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > On Mar 23, 2017, at 6:44 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thursday 23 March 2017 22:18:53 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >>>  Mar 23, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> This is of course incorrect.  But I doubt that I could refute it
> >>> without appearing aggressive again. :-(
> >>
> >> What part of what I said is incorrect?
> >
> > Practically all of it.
>
> If any part of it was actually incorrect, you could and would have pointed
> it out.
>
> You just disagree with my opinion, on the basis of what *you* want Debian
> to be, as opposed to the stated principles of Debian. 

The stated principles of Debian?  "Debian will remain 100% free.  We provide 
the guidelines that we use to determine if a work is free in the document 
entitled The Debian Free Software Guidelines. *We promise that the Debian 
system and all its components will be free according to these 
guidelines.*"  (my stars)

https://www.debian.org/social_contract

Anyone who reads this knows that the net-install disc cannot include non-free 
firmware and that there could be a problem with connecting to the net.

> You are perfectly
> free to disagree, but do not make a false claim that what I say is
> incorrect when it is not. 

I am not making a false claim.  What you said about me and about what I think 
and believe is incorrect in practically every detail.   Stop maligning me and 
then insisting that you know better than I do what I believe.

As for my being free to disagree, then let me disagree and leave me alone now.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 23 March 2017 22:18:53 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >  Mar 23, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > This is of course incorrect.  But I doubt that I could refute it without
> > appearing aggressive again. :-(
>
> What part of what I said is incorrect?

Practically all of it.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

My reply went initially in error to Catherine privately because she had sent a 
copy to me privately.  I wish people would stick to teh CoC and not cc 
people.

On Thursday 23 March 2017 18:20:39 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 23, 2017, at 2:03 PM, Steve McIntyre  wrote:
> >
> > Please calm down, why the aggression? :-(
>
> Lisi is incensed with my suggestion that the netinst installer should
> refuse to continue if no network card is recognized and configured. She
> sincerely believes Debian is, and should be, only for expert users. My
> suggestion in no way detracts from the ability of an expert to perform the
> type of installation they want, while eliminating a major source of
> "failed" installations where beginners end up with a base system only
> installed.
>
> They presume some large number of expert users want to use netinst to get a
> base system only server installation with no network capability. I find it
> ludicrous; what about the server packages they need and security updates?
> No, it is really about keeping it harder than it needs to be to begin using
> Debian, preferring that those inferior, inexpert people use Mint or Ubuntu,
> as Lisi has admitted she wants.
>
>
> Cathy

This is of course incorrect.  But I doubt that I could refute it without 
appearing aggressive again. :-(

It does indeed incense me that Catherine should demand that the net installer, 
which I and many use all the time, should refuse to do something because  
Catherine doesn't want it to do it.

There are loads of Debian DVDs that do most - all??  I don't use the DVDs - of 
what Catherine wants.  And I think that the Live CDs could helpfully be easy 
for newbies, but if we haven't got the developer time, we haven't got the 
developer time.  

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 23 March 2017 18:03:35 Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Please calm down, why the aggression? :-(

Sorry.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 23 March 2017 16:48:56 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > On Mar 23, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Steve McIntyre <st...@einval.com> wrote:
> >
> > Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >>> On Mar 20, 2017, at 10:02 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Particularly where you have encountered it where it takes you past the
> >>> point of no retreat before you discover that you need a network driver,
> >>> so that you have wiped your old install and cannot continue to install
> >>> your new one.
> >>
> >> How about the last time I installed Debian using a netinst dvd?
> >
> > Sorry, what? There's no such animal as a netinst dvd... The netinst is
> > a minimal-ish (small) CD-sized image that just contains the installer
> > and the (very limited) base system. The DVDs we make are much more
> > complete.
>
> When you burn the netinst iso to a dvd, because you can't buy blank cds
> anymore in any local stores, you have a netinst dvd. I can't remember the
> last time I saw a cd in the wild.

No, you do not.  You have a net install cd image burnt onto a DVD because you 
didn't /couldn't be bothered to look for CDs.

How about:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_8?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers=blank+cd+discs=blank+CD%2Caps%2C178=29MZRSVI13I1H
Or:
https://www.tesco.com/direct/search-results/results.page?catId=4294967294=blank+CD=4294967294
Or:
https://www.wilko.com/search?q=blank+CD

I assure you that Wilko is very wild!!  And for me, very local.

Just occasionally, Catherine, try to admit that you may not know everything.  
In particular, that Steve knows more than you do.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 23 March 2017 11:50:33 Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:07:22 +0100
>
> Mart van de Wege  wrote:
> > Jonathan Dowland  writes:
> > > On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 08:06:46AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > >> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 08:52:46PM -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > >> > Do you prefer that people move on to other distros after a base
> > >> > system only installation because the Debian installer let them
> > >> > inadvertently get there?
> > >>
> > >> If they're like you, yes.  Good riddance.
> > >
> > > This thread is a great example of why I really despise debian-user
> > > sometimes. There's no reason to be so hostile, you simply disagree
> > > with each other. This list is too toxic a lot of the time. Please
> > > either post friendly and constructively or not at all.
> >
> > I disagree. Sometimes there is no disagreement, someone is just plain
> > wrong. Catherine has been given the use cases that disprove her
> > thesis, and has been contradicting herself.
> >
> > Continuing to be nice in some misguided attempt at false balance
> > *does* *not* *help*. If someone is wrong, they should be told; if
> > they insist on not wanting to be educated, at a certain point you
> > must simply wash your hands of them. It's not nice, but it *is*
> > constructive.
> >
> > "Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore"
> >   - Cicero
>
> But it can be done politely, and with dignity, and sometimes is. 'Good
> riddance' is not, by any possible standard, polite.

Cuiusvis hominis est errare.  Greg is human too, and had been becoming more 
and more exasperated.  I can think of one or two of the highest value (IMHO) 
people on this list who are sometimes very impolite.  As I said to the victim 
of one of them (and I too have been the "victim"), if you can't stand the 
heat, get out of the kitchen.

Catherine *had* been told politely, repeatedly, but had not been willing 
to "hear".  

Lisi

Re: Unattended upgrades. Debian methods, please, not Ubuntu.

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 07:42:09 didier gaumet wrote:
> there is a doc in the Debian wiki:
> https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades

Thank you.  Yes, I have read and tried to follow it.  I quote:
-
To install these packages, run the following command as root:

# apt-get install unattended-upgrades apt-listchanges
The default configuration file for the unattended-upgrades package is 
at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. The defaults will work fine, 
but you should read it and make changes as needed.

# editor /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades
-

It clearly says that the defaults will work fine.  They don't.  They don't 
seem to work at all, in fact most of the files don't seem to be there. 

I have tried to read and follow the whole thing.  I have googled for other 
things.  I have got no-where.  So any more useful pointers would be greatly 
welcomed.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 17:26:56 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/22/2017 10:33 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:53:24 Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> On 03/22/2017 09:28 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>>> The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
> >>>> [the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
> >>>> [space used reported by gparted]
> >>>>1. None
> >>>>   CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
> >>>>2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
> >>>>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>>>3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
> >>>>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>>>4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
> >>>>   MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> >>>>5. Gnome only checked
> >>>>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>>>6. MATE only checked
> >>>>   MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> >>>> Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top
> >>> entry is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?
> >>
> >> That is correct.
> >>
> >> HOWEVER that line of thought is why I included my 1st paragraph on the
> >> "educational" problems encountered.
> >> 
> >> My "educational" failure was in attempting to create a preseed.cfg file
> >> so the tests would require minimal hands on attention. I wanted the
> >> tasksel screen to appear. I did not succeed. Instead the installer went
> >> on its merry way installing Gnome in ~3.67 (not the ~3.59 GB of other
> >> runs). 
> >>
> >> I've never used netinst and don't know if my failed preseed.cfg might
> >> resemble it.
> >
> > Thank you.  I prefer facts to alternative facts or guesses!  I must play
> > around with net install when I have got both time and a suitable
> > platform!
> >
> > In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and
> > helping newbies, no mention has been made of the Live CD installation
> > method, which I should have though was ideal for those who want their
> > hands held.  That perception may be false, but is why I barely go near
> > it!  I use Knoppix when I want a Live CD and the net install disk when I
> > want to install Debian.
>
> I had a "Live 8.6 MATE" DVD next to me.
> I had a minor glitch and a possibly significant problem.
> The minor glitch was when launching the installer it needed a password.
> Having seen that problem reported before, entering "live" got it going.
>
> The possibly significant problem was inability to install grub.
> I say "possibly significant" because my test machine and installation
> routines have a few oddities.
>
> I manually partitioned *AND* defeated using a swap partition as it would
> have changed the UUID of my swap partition thus messing up my exiting
> installs (have 3 active at the moment).
>
> Not installing grub was no problem for me as I don't install it anyway,
> choosing to run update-grub under control of the install on /dev/sda1.

Interesting.  I wonder whether that would apply to all the mainstream Live 
CDs, or just the Mate one?  I think they may be very individual.  I know the 
Trinity unofficial one was, until it became the Devuan one anyway.  But it 
installed OK, ran well both live and installed, and told you what password to 
use in the accompanying documentation.

Now that I think one could criticise, since it should actually run.  If Martin 
Wimpress ever actually turns up to a meeting, instead of saying that he is 
hoping to come, I shall tell him so!!

Thanks again.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:53:24 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/22/2017 09:28 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
> >> [the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
> >> [space used reported by gparted]
> >>1. None
> >>   CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
> >>2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
> >>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
> >>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
> >>   MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> >>5. Gnome only checked
> >>   Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
> >>6. MATE only checked
> >>   MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> >> Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.
> >
> > Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top
> > entry is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?
>
> That is correct.
>
> HOWEVER that line of thought is why I included my 1st paragraph on the
> "educational" problems encountered.
> 
> My "educational" failure was in attempting to create a preseed.cfg file
> so the tests would require minimal hands on attention. I wanted the
> tasksel screen to appear. I did not succeed. Instead the installer went
> on its merry way installing Gnome in ~3.67 (not the ~3.59 GB of other
> runs). 
>
> I've never used netinst and don't know if my failed preseed.cfg might
> resemble it.

Thank you.  I prefer facts to alternative facts or guesses!  I must play 
around with net install when I have got both time and a suitable platform!

In all this talk of Debian being the universal operating system, and helping 
newbies, no mention has been made of the Live CD installation method, which I 
should have though was ideal for those who want their hands held.  That 
perception may be false, but is why I barely go near it!  I use Knoppix when 
I want a Live CD and the net install disk when I want to install Debian.

Lisi

Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 14:05:28 Richard Owlett wrote:
> The results of the 6 installs I intended to run:
> [the only variable being which DE related boxes checked]
> [space used reported by gparted]
>    1. None
>       CLI installed taking ~.92 GB
>    2. Only top entry checked (asking for unspecified desktop)
>       Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
>    3. Top entry *and* Gnome checked
>       Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
>    4. Top entry *and* MATE checked
>       MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
>    5. Gnome only checked
>       Gnome installed taking ~3.59 GB
>    6. MATE only checked
>       MATE installed taking ~2.65 GB
> Tests 1-6 were run were run from a flash drive copy of DVD1.

Thanks, Richard.  And are you able to confirm that, by default, the top entry 
is checked, and you have to  uncheck it to achieve option 1?

Lisi

Unattended upgrades. Debian methods, please, not Ubuntu.

[Lisi Reisz]

tl:dnr:
How do I get unattended upgrades a) to function and b) to tell me when it has 
upgraded something.

With Debian unattended-upgrades installed I can't make out form Adam whether 
they have run.  I have run:
# cd /var/log/unattended-upgrades/
# cat unattended-upgrades-shutdown.log
# cat unattended-upgrades.log
With  0 result.  (As above)

I have have run full-upgrade and looked for whether any security packages had 
not been installed:


Current status: 5 updates [+5], 29069 new [+68].
root@Eros:/home/lisi# aptitude full-upgrade
The following packages will be upgraded:
  imagemagick-6.q16 imagemagick-common libmagickcore-6.q16-2 
libmagickcore-6.q16-2-extra
  libmagickwand-6.q16-2
5 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 2,935 kB of archives. After unpacking 340 kB will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
Get: 1 http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main libmagickwand-6.q16-2 
amd64 8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7 [407 kB]
Get: 2 http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main libmagickcore-6.q16-2 
amd64 8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7 [1,694 kB]
Get: 3 http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main imagemagick-common all 
8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7 [151 kB]
Get: 4 http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main imagemagick-6.q16 amd64 
8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7 [510 kB]
Get: 5 http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main 
libmagickcore-6.q16-2-extra amd64 8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7 [172 kB]
Fetched 2,935 kB in 1s (1,690 kB/s)
Reading changelogs...
apt-listchanges: Mailing lisi.re...@gmail.com: apt-listchanges: changelogs for 
Eros
(Reading database ... 161857 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to 
unpack .../libmagickwand-6.q16-2_8%3a6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libmagickwand-6.q16-2:amd64 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) over 
(8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u6) ...
Preparing to 
unpack .../libmagickcore-6.q16-2_8%3a6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libmagickcore-6.q16-2:amd64 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) over 
(8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u6) ...
Preparing to unpack .../imagemagick-common_8%3a6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7_all.deb ...
Unpacking imagemagick-common (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) over 
(8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u6) ...
Preparing to unpack .../imagemagick-6.q16_8%3a6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking imagemagick-6.q16 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) over (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u6) ...
Preparing to 
unpack .../libmagickcore-6.q16-2-extra_8%3a6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libmagickcore-6.q16-2-extra:amd64 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) over 
(8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u6) ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme (0.13-1) ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils (0.22-1) ...
Processing triggers for mime-support (3.58) ...
Setting up imagemagick-common (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) ...
Setting up libmagickcore-6.q16-2:amd64 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) ...
Setting up libmagickwand-6.q16-2:amd64 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) ...
Setting up imagemagick-6.q16 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) ...
Setting up libmagickcore-6.q16-2-extra:amd64 (8:6.8.9.9-5+deb8u7) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.19-18+deb8u7) ...

Current status: 0 updates [-5].
root@Eros:/home/lisi# 

But unattended upgrades is installed:

root@Eros:/home/lisi# aptitude search unattended-upgrades
i   unattended-upgrades- automatic installation of 
security upgrades
root@Eros:/home/lisi#  

I have tried to see if a vim security patch had been installed after a vim 
security alert.  It had not.

So unattended upgrades would appear not to be working.  How do I get it 
working/configure it/ whatever.

How do I know when it is working and when it has upgraded something?

I set a configuration file up to email me, but not on this computer, and it 
hasn't done so.  Perhaps nothing has been upgraded.

Help!  Where now.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 18:38:44 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> And I specified it was the netinst about 8 posts ago, immediately in
> response to you asking. And I have repeatedly since then mentioned netinst.
> You might try reading what I say instead of skimming it for things to
> object to.

The one who doesn't read what anyone else says, and who thinks that only she 
is allowed to dictate, is you.

Though self-knowledge being every human's weak point, I'll accept pot and 
kettle, so long as you do too and stop telling everyone else what to do.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Sent from my iPad

Note it is sent from an iPad!  Open Source all the way!

Incidentally, why did we need to know that?

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Greg Wooledge <wool...@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:55:07PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 14:33:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >>> Refusing to continue an installation that will inevitably be a failure
> >>> is how it should act.
> >>
> >> Rot.  It will not "inevitably be a failure".  It can be a very good way
> >> out of some problems.
> >
> > Agreed.  Some people may want to install Debian on a computer that
> > doesn't have a network interface *at all*.  They should be able to do so.
> > They *are* able to do so.
>
> Of course they should. But a netinst dvd or usb stick is not the best tool
> for that. The very name lets you know that a network is going to be needed.
> Netinst is not the only installer, you know.

Yes, we do know.  You seem not to do so.  I specifically asked which installer 
you had used and were talking about.

Lisi

Re: aptitude is dangerous - any replacement?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 11:31:29 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> Is there any replacement? Or a way to make aptitude ignore
> experimental packages?
>
> Note: I still want to keep experimental in my sources.list for the
> cases where I *explicitly* request experimental packages.

Can experimental not be pinned, like backports?  I've ner tried to use it.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 14:33:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Refusing to continue an installation that will inevitably be a failure is
> how it should act.

Rot.  It will not "inevitably be a failure".  It can be a very good way out of 
some problems.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 11:59:39 Greg Wooledge wrote:
> Sure, if you *don't change the default selection*, you probably get
> GNOME.  Is that what you meant by "don't actually select anything"?
> Just accepting whatever the default is, without reading or changing
> what's on the screen?

Exactly that is what is under discussion!  To avoid a desktop you have to make 
a conscious decision and unselect it.  Otherwise, if you just accept, accept, 
accept, your way through an installation you don't understand, you end up 
with a desktop.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 02:58:50 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> The installer allows you to continue the installation without a configured
> network card, and it shouldn't.

Of course it should *allow* you to do so.  And it does warn you.  Not allow 
you indeed!

People open viruses, help telephone scammers to rob them of their life savings 
etc.  There is a limit to how far the nanny "state" should protect people 
from themselves.  This precise point - that it decides what you must do, 
rather than let you decide, is what I personally dislike about Ubuntu.  
People do utterly idiotic things, and in the free world they have to be 
allowed to do so.

Lisi

Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 20 March 2017 23:03:29 Brian wrote:
> [1] I've given up on "agenda"; but not on "data". The World will
> eventually see the error of its ways.

Brian, I squirmed.  "Data is" ... I can just about handle.  I CANNOT (yes, I 
can shout too!) handle "agenda is".  Agenda are always more than one 
thing.  The piece of paper is the *list* of the agenda, which are the things 
which require to be done.  In the unlikely even that a meeting had been 
called that had only one thing to do, then that one thing would be an 
agendum.

My granddaughter may disagree, but she wouldn't dare do so with me in the 
room!

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 00:38:36 Richard Owlett wrote:
> With the installer from DVD 1 of 13 the first option in taskel is for
> choosing to have a desktop - the default is yes.

Thanks, Richard!  This is as I expected - the default is to have a desktop.  I 
must find a machine on which I can safely do some net install test installs.  
I should be getting one next month.  But again, the default certainly used to 
be to have a desktop.  I sometimes don't want oen - but land up with one if I 
go to sleep. :-/
Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 21 March 2017 00:19:52 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > On Mar 20, 2017, at 7:51 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > That sounds as though it is the message that is at fault, not the
> > installer or installation method.  It should perhaps mention that you
> > have to carry on to get a desktop.  Is this in the set of DVDs?
> >
> > Lisi
>
> I have not done a dvd installation in many years, but IIRC it is true for
> the dvds and absolutely true for the netinst. The message about the base
> system being installed is the same.

What I was asking is where you yourself have encountered it recently, not in 
what circumstances you believe it to be true.

Particularly where you have encountered it where it takes you past the point 
of no retreat before you discover that you need a network driver, so that you 
have wiped your old install and cannot continue to install your new one.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 20 March 2017 20:54:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> the misleading message that your base installation is complete and the
> system will now reboot to Linux. You can't blame some beginners for
> believing the installation is complete!

That sounds as though it is the message that is at fault, not the installer or 
installation method.  It should perhaps mention that you have to carry on to 
get a desktop.  Is this in the set of DVDs?

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 20 March 2017 20:29:31 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/20/2017 03:06 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Monday 20 March 2017 09:46:45 Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> >> I don't have an installation image locally to test this as I write, but
> >> your messages indicate that the graphical desktop options are by default
> >> not selected in the installer, regardless of which installation medium
> >> (netinst, CD, DVD) is being used. If they simply defaulted to on, but
> >> could be disabled as normal, would that not address the "noob" issue
> >> without frustrating those who know they don't want a desktop
> >> environment?
> >
> > Last time my attention wavered when I was doing a net-install I landed up
> > with Gnome.  I would expect that the net installation still defaults to a
> > Gnome desktop.  I will try to test this in the near future.
> >
> > Lisi
>
> If run from Jessie's DVD 1 of 13, if Desktop is selected but without a
> specific D.E. selected, you get Gnome.

The question is what you get by default if you don't actually select 
anything - desktop or no desktop.  I got Gnome, so got a desktop.

Lisi

Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 20 March 2017 09:46:45 Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> I don't have an installation image locally to test this as I write, but
> your messages indicate that the graphical desktop options are by default
> not selected in the installer, regardless of which installation medium
> (netinst, CD, DVD) is being used. If they simply defaulted to on, but could
> be disabled as normal, would that not address the "noob" issue without
> frustrating those who know they don't want a desktop environment?

Last time my attention wavered when I was doing a net-install I landed up with 
Gnome.  I would expect that the net installation still defaults to a Gnome 
desktop.  I will try to test this in the near future.

Lisi

How do I play a video disc with Debian? was: Re: problems after installing Debian

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 20 March 2017 00:18:37 Harry wrote:
> Hi, I have installed Debian 8.5.0 cinnamon i386 .I like the program 
> after having a lot of crashes with linux mint !My problem now is i can't
> get anything to play a video disc , Totem does'nt work , video player gives
> the message could not support initializing library. Forums  suggest
> uninstalling gstreamer but then i find theres  several in the the system ,
> so which one or all ??Nothing seems to  help . I thought of updating 
> Debian but i can't find out how to do that either ! Linux mint had a simple
> update manager .Hope you can help .
> Thank you , Harry

Welcome to Debian.

Just changing subject line to attract people who know about video.  

What have you got in your sources.list?  /etc/apt/sources.list  That is 
usually a good place to start, because you may need some additional and 
non-free software, which may not be available in Debian main.

There are lots of ways to update.  I use (and recommend)
# aptitude update
# aptitude full-upgrade
at the command line,
but by saying so I have probably started a flame war.  As I said, there are 
lots of ways.

Whichever way you do it, you should certainly upgrade now!!  Confusingly, 
Debian uses the term upgrade for what you are meaning by update.

Lisi

Re: Debian Live CD standart

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 19 March 2017 17:27:34 Alex wrote:
> Здравствуйте!
> Скачал Debian Live CD standart записал на флешку программой
> Win32DiskImager. Запускается окно с выбором, выбираю первый вариант,
> после некоторых процессов просит ввести логин и пароль. Что нужно
> вводить? Ранее линуксами не пользовался. Версия 64-битная.

This is the English speaking Debian-User list.  You want:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-russian/

Lisi

Re: Netinstall of Debian 8 on DELL laptop fails

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 17 March 2017 17:55:12 Klaus Jantzen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am trying to net-install Debian 8.7. (Graphical expert install)
>
> After loading a couple of modules for the installation of the base
> system the installer claims that
>
> beginning with 'groff-base' all modules are corrupted and cannot be loaded.
>
> This is wrong as I used the same CD to install Debian on my PC without
> any problems.

CDs can get damaged.  Or sometimes in practice a CD can be read in one drive 
but not in another.
>
> Before that I had installed Wheezy on the laptop without any problems.
>
>
> Does anyone have an idea on how to solve the problem?

Download the file again and burn a new CD, preferably with a different 
make/type of CD on a different drive - if you can manage it.  Do check sums 
carefully.  Try again.  If you still have the problem, tell us.

Lisi

Re: Suggested edit

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 17 March 2017 17:24:53 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> You used Libranet, too? Are you still in touch with Tal? That was my
> favorite distro EVER. The only real help I ever got was in the Libranet
> beta testing group, for that last release that never made it because John
> was so ill.

I still mourn it and no, though I was in touch with Daniel for some time.

Oh it did make it, briefly - I bought it!!  John died almost immediately after 
it was released, and Tal withdrew it while he decided what to do.  I always 
felt that he chose to kill it, but could have given it to the community if he 
didn't want it.

But, I have a PAID FOR copy of Libranet 3.  Somewhere.  I loved, loved, loved 
it.  Nothing else can touch it - not even Debian itself!!  And it had a logo 
to die for. ;-)

Lisi

Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 16 March 2017 20:08:16 Brian wrote:
> and we are told
> it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
> by guiding people to it. :)

Oh, come Brian.  We are also told that it is not the purpose of Debian to 
pander to freaks and Geeks.  We are told that the moon is made of green 
cheese and the earth is flat.  Oh, and young ladies don't do that.  We are 
not going to worry about what we are told, are we?

Lisi

Re: Suggested edit

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 17 March 2017 16:45:31 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> It is more important to not intimidate the beginner. 

Not, it isn't.  Debian is for experts, or would-be experts, or those who will 
never be experts but like to pretend.

I am so sad that Debian is becoming more and more Ubuntu-ised.  For those who 
want and like Ubuntu, Ubuntu exists.

> We were all a beginner 
> once.

Yes, we were.  And we either managed, had help (I had a lot AND used Libranet 
(an easier true derivative - used Debian sources, but pinned) or used a 
derivative.  

We neither expect nor demand that Windows be installable by all and sundry, 
from scratch, on an empty machine.

Lisi

Re: Suggested edit

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 17 March 2017 15:18:57 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > On Mar 17, 2017, at 10:28 AM, Jonathan Dowland  wrote:
> >
> > That would presume that the majority of users of the installer wanted to
> > install a desktop environment. This is not necessarily true even for
> > beginners, on say, server machines.
>
> Beginners are installing server systems as their first experience with
> Linux? I think not. Most people don't ever touch a server in their entire
> life. The closest they get to a server is a thin client. Any sane server
> administrator is going to set up a test system first, and probably on a
> desktop so they can easily mess around with it while they learn about the
> tools it offers.

In general, Debian is not recommended for total newbies who are unassisted for 
precisely this sort of reason.

There are plenty of dumbed down Debian derivatives for those that want them.  
Please don't let's dumb Debian down any further.  Base install means base 
install.  The net install disk by default installs Gnome (I have on occasion 
gone to sleep and failed to prevent it).  Some WANT a base install and should 
be able to have it easily.  You are describing Ubuntu or Mint. Ubuntu and 
Mint exist.

The mentioned problem in finding things definitely exists, especially when it 
comes to check sums, especially for those of us who are partially sighted.  
The developers, bless them, are aware and are working on it.  That is great, 
and good enough for me.

But if you want a dumbed down newbie distro, use a dumbed down newbie distro.  
If Debian is too Geekish, leave it to the Geeks.

Meanwhile, Brian, not all of us are blessed with 35 year old brains and 20/20 
vision.

Lisi

Re: Suitable text editor [NOT word processor] or workaround?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 16 March 2017 11:38:52 Richard Owlett wrote:
> My environment is Jessie (8.6.0) with MATE desktop.
> I require two things:
>   1. a search and replace which can include a "newline" in new string.
>   2. display/edit 2 files simultaneously *side by side*
>
> MATE's standard editor (Pluma) can handle the first easily.
>
> I see no way to open 2 instances of Pluma in separate windows - a la
> Notepad in WindowsXP. Pluma will only open multiple files in multiple tabs.
>
> The two files are nearly identical and need them displayed
> simultaneously for instant visual comparison. Opening one of the files
> read only would be acceptable but not preferable.
>
> Suggestions?
> TIA

I can't try with Pluma, because I haven't got it.  But I just tried with 
KWrite-Trinity without the slightest problem.  I can't think how to control 
the tome in which this comes out in an email, but along the lines of "Is t 
plugged in?", have you actually tried to do it?

I just managed to find a failure!  KEdit-Trinity again will open two windows 
without a problem, but Kate-Trinity appears not to do so.  I wanted to try 
GEdit, but I haven't got it and am disinclined to install half Gnome, on a 
system which is wavering, just to try this.  Sorry, Richard.

But it is obvious that some editors will do this.  You just have to find one 
you are prepared to install that does it.  Kwrite-Trinity and KEdit-Trinity 
can both do it.

Lisi

Re: why??why?why??

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 12 March 2017 11:49:29 Reco wrote:
> > Since when do we reply to stupid subject lines?? It just encourages
> > those who use the word "wanna" to express a malformed topic. Ric
>
> Please have a little decency, Ric. English is not everyone's mother
> tongue

It is only those whose mother tongue is English surely, who would even 
consider spelling "want to" as "wanna".  Those whose mother tongue is NOT 
English might well not know what "wanna" meant.  They have after all, mostly, 
learnt English at school.  Would that those whose mother tongue is English 
had done so!

Lisi

Re: installing knoppix or debian on hard list

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 04 February 2017 13:16:23 Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have never had any contact with Knoppix so do not know if a
> similar procedure could be followed. 

Knoppix is intended primarily as a Live CD, and last time I tried was quite 
tricky to install.

Lisi