Re: Attributing (was: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?)

On Sat 06 Jul 2019 at 11:16:19 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> (General observation: it's really quite annoying that you remove all > >> attribution when you quote previous emails in your replies.) > > It really is very annoying, primarily because it's intentional, and so > > intentionally

Re: Attributing (was: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?)

On 2019-07-06, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> (General observation: it's really quite annoying that you remove all >>> attribution when you quote previous emails in your replies.) >> It really is very annoying, primarily because it's intentional, and so >> intentionally annoying, which is really,

Attributing (was: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?)

>> (General observation: it's really quite annoying that you remove all >> attribution when you quote previous emails in your replies.) > It really is very annoying, primarily because it's intentional, and so > intentionally annoying, which is really, really annoying. Interesting. I never read

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 07/04/2019 08:50 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: On 07/02/2019 04:05 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: ... For my local purposes, I have created my own metapackage (not in Debian...) Please send me a copy. I've a ~10 year old Lenovo T510 whose hardware should be new enough. Apparently runs fine. No

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 2019-07-04, Michael Stone wrote: > On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 11:26:39AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> If it had been done 10 years ago it wouldn't need to be done now. :) > > (General observation: it's really quite annoying that you remove all > attribution when you quote previous emails in

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 11:26:39AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: If it had been done 10 years ago it wouldn't need to be done now. :) (General observation: it's really quite annoying that you remove all attribution when you quote previous emails in your replies.) VMs running on a core 2

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

> If it had been done 10 years ago it wouldn't need to be done now. :) [ The initial install was in 2003, FWIW. ] I do use 64bit Debian on another machine, but to tell you the truth, I don't notice any difference at all (other than bigger hex numbers in GDB which take up more screen real estate

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

* On 2019 04 Jul 08:51 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > I've a ~10 year old Lenovo T510 whose hardware should be new enough. I've a T410 running Buster amd64 and have simply installed the VirtualBox binaries from the Sid repository (manually downloaded and installed). I also have QEMU installed

Old computers (Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?)

On Thursday, July 04, 2019 09:50:36 AM Richard Owlett wrote: > BTW my oldest machine is a Kaypro 10 ;/ Just for kicks, I'll mention that my oldest machine is a Digital Group Z-80, circa 1976, assembed from a kit, and with 2K on board RAM plus 2 auxillary memory boards with 8K each (iirc) for a

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 07/02/2019 04:05 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: ... For my local purposes, I have created my own metapackage (not in Debian...) -- this is why I suggested a list of packages: I expect that installing all of the packages yields the same result (except for automatically vs. manually installed

Re: Oldest Usable x86 CPU for Stretch (Was: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?)

On Jo, 04 iul 19, 01:47:58, Matthew Crews wrote: > > You know, this got me thinking. What *is* the oldest 32-bit x86 CPU that > we can use in Stretch for a VM host? And assuming we are talking > out-of-the-box experience, ie I download a standard ISO and fire it up. This might get you started:

Oldest Usable x86 CPU for Stretch (Was: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?)

On 7/3/19 10:20 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> That said I do not believe that any existing i386 32-bit-only hardware >> that is still floating around even supports the virtual machine >> extensions necessary to run a true VM host. > > I haven't use qemu on my 32bit only i686 machines recently, but

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 02:05:05PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: - start by reinstall Debian using a 64bit system this time If it had been done 10 years ago it wouldn't need to be done now. :) If you just don't want to bother that's fine, but not great advice for anyone starting out. In my

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

> Because the hardware features to permit efficient virtualization weren't > available on i386-only CPUs. (And there's really no good reason to run a VM > host [vs guest] in i386 mode if it can run in amd64 mode.) By "there's really no good ..." I think you mean "I can't think of any good ...".

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 01:20:06PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: think in this day and age it is a bit silly to try and run a VM on a 32-bit host Why? Often the question is not "which hardware should I pick to run this VM" but "what kinds of technology should I use to run this software on this

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

> I have an innate desire to help people, but more importantly I give > people the benefit of the doubt. Besides I self-taught myself a few > things along the way, so I consider it a win. Yes, please (and please remind me of that as well when I fail to follow it ;-) >> Now, which one of you is

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 05:01:11AM +0200, Matthew Crews wrote: > I have no idea what an Owlett thread is, It's what you're seeing right now. It's also the reason I end up writing a filtering program to send all email from certain From: addresses into a spam folder.

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 08:17:22AM -, Curt wrote: > On 2019-07-03, wrote: > > > >> I have an innate desire to help people, but more importantly I give > >> people the benefit of the doubt. Besides I self-taught myself a few > >> things along the way, so I consider it a win. > > > > I prefer

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 2019-07-03, wrote: > >> I have an innate desire to help people, but more importantly I give >> people the benefit of the doubt. Besides I self-taught myself a few >> things along the way, so I consider it a win. > > I prefer that one, too :) People get the benefit of the doubt until they

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 05:01:11AM +0200, Matthew Crews wrote: > On 7/2/19 1:20 PM, Andy Smith wrote: > > I do feel sorry for you Matthew. You have been enticed into spending > > considerable time giving a thorough answer in an Owlett thread. > > Unfortunately Owlett threads are either an ongoing

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 7/2/19 1:20 PM, Andy Smith wrote: > I do feel sorry for you Matthew. You have been enticed into spending > considerable time giving a thorough answer in an Owlett thread. > Unfortunately Owlett threads are either an ongoing Internet > performance art project or a result of severe mental illness

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

Richard Owlett writes: On 07/01/2019 01:43 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: Richard Owlett writes: [...] I do not understand. It was an attempt to give you a list of packages that may allow you to start using VMs without further checks ... That your answer was "a list of packages" is key to the

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

Hello Curt and Matthew, On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 12:04:36PM -, Curt wrote: > On 2019-07-02, Richard Owlett wrote: > > > > A restatement of my question might be: […] > What do we win if we provide the correct answer? A year's supply of > invective? I do feel sorry for you Matthew. You have

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 7/2/19 8:34 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I'm partial to VirtualBox. Is that on any of the Debian DVD'S? >> No, because it isn't free software. >> See for details. > > I believe what you wrote is slightly misleading: the base VirtualBox > software seems

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 7/2/19 8:34 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I'm partial to VirtualBox. Is that on any of the Debian DVD'S? >> No, because it isn't free software. >> See for details. > > I believe what you wrote is slightly misleading: the base VirtualBox > software seems to

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 7/2/19 8:34 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I'm partial to VirtualBox. Is that on any of the Debian DVD'S? >> No, because it isn't free software. >> See for details. > > I believe what you wrote is slightly misleading: the base VirtualBox > software seems to

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

>> I'm partial to VirtualBox. Is that on any of the Debian DVD'S? > No, because it isn't free software. > See for details. I believe what you wrote is slightly misleading: the base VirtualBox software seems to satisfy the definition of Free Software just

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 11:17:06AM -0400, Kenneth Parker wrote: > I'm partial to VirtualBox. Is that on any of the Debian DVD'S? No, because it isn't free software. See for details.

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, 8:05 AM Curt wrote: > On 2019-07-02, Richard Owlett wrote: > > > > A restatement of my question might be: > > > > I run the i386 version of Debian 9.8. > > Using only contents of that set of installation DVDs, I wish to use a VM > > host capable of running multiple VM

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 7/2/19 6:04 AM, Matthew Crews wrote: > To determine *which* installation DVD contains one of these programs, > you will need to look at the individual wiki page for each VM host > program, see which package or packages you need, and check the DVD .list > files to see which DVD contains that

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 7/2/19 4:30 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > A restatement of my question might be: > > I run the i386 version of Debian 9.8. > Using only contents of that set of installation DVDs, I wish to use a VM > host capable of running multiple VM guests. Although the guests will be > running in

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 2019-07-02, Richard Owlett wrote: > > A restatement of my question might be: > > I run the i386 version of Debian 9.8. > Using only contents of that set of installation DVDs, I wish to use a VM > host capable of running multiple VM guests. Although the guests will be > running in command

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 07/01/2019 01:43 PM, Linux-Fan wrote: Richard Owlett writes: [...] I do not understand. It was an attempt to give you a list of packages that may allow you to start using VMs without further checks ... That your answer was "a list of packages" is key to the communication problem.

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 2019-07-01, Matthew Crews wrote: > On 7/1/19 10:35 AM, Curt wrote: >> On 2019-07-01, Matthew Crews wrote: >>> >>> At a cursory glance, it does NOT appear that DVD-1 contains any VM Host >>> software, other than perhaps nspawn (which is part of Systemd). >> >> Isn't nspawn a chroot container?

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 7/1/19 10:35 AM, Curt wrote: > On 2019-07-01, Matthew Crews wrote: >> >> At a cursory glance, it does NOT appear that DVD-1 contains any VM Host >> software, other than perhaps nspawn (which is part of Systemd). > > Isn't nspawn a chroot container? > Indeed, but depending on the needs, it

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

Richard Owlett writes: [...] On 06/30/2019 10:44 AM, Linux-Fan wrote: Matthew Crews writes: On 6/30/19 5:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > I'm considering using a VM for some experiments. > Although my web searches have turned up articles about particular > aspects of particular VMs, I've

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 2019-07-01, Matthew Crews wrote: > > At a cursory glance, it does NOT appear that DVD-1 contains any VM Host > software, other than perhaps nspawn (which is part of Systemd). Isn't nspawn a chroot container? > Hope this helps. >

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 6/30/19 12:12 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 06/30/2019 10:44 AM, Linux-Fan wrote: >> Matthew Crews writes: >>> Are you asking what virtual machine hosts are available on Debian? > > *explicitly* So clearly I struck a nerve, and I apologize. The way you asked your question was somewhat

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 1/07/19 7:12 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > What 32 bit VMs which DO NOT depend on non-FOSS components are available > for 32-bit Debian? > LEARN TO WRITE!! A VM is a Virtual Machine. You appear not to be asking for a Virtual Machine, but software to host a Virtual Machine!!!1! If you ask the

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

Richard Owlett wrote: > *CAVEAT LECTOR* > If I can't win, >may I aspire to "break even"? > Recently I was chastised for expecting people to *read*. > if no hmr, *DENT* rd frthr ;/ > caveat finis ;/ > > > > > What are my options? > > > > > > > Are you asking what virtual machine hosts are

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

*CAVEAT LECTOR* If I can't win, may I aspire to "break even"? Recently I was chastised for expecting people to *read*. if no hmr, *DENT* rd frthr ;/ caveat finis ;/ On 06/30/2019 10:44 AM, Linux-Fan wrote: Matthew Crews writes: On 6/30/19 5:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > I'm considering

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

Matthew Crews writes: On 6/30/19 5:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > I'm considering using a VM for some experiments. > Although my web searches have turned up articles about particular > aspects of particular VMs, I've found no inventory of what VMs are > available in Debian. > > My firm

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 6/30/2019 3:45 PM, Matthew Crews wrote: > On 6/30/19 5:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: >> I'm considering using a VM for some experiments. >> Although my web searches have turned up articles about particular >> aspects of particular VMs, I've found no inventory of what VMs are >> available in

Re: Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

On 6/30/19 5:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > I'm considering using a VM for some experiments. > Although my web searches have turned up articles about particular > aspects of particular VMs, I've found no inventory of what VMs are > available in Debian. > > My firm requirement is that all required

Choice of VMs under i386 Stretch?

I'm considering using a VM for some experiments. Although my web searches have turned up articles about particular aspects of particular VMs, I've found no inventory of what VMs are available in Debian. My firm requirement is that all required software be in set of install DVDs for i386