Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 17 May 2017 15:57:29 G wrote:
> I'm thinking installing Debian testing (stretch)on my laptop and then
> follow stretch but i am wondering what will happen when todays Debian
> testing becomes stable. Am i have to reinstall Debian when testing
> becomes stable?

No.

>
> I search around and found this https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
> It has a section "How to use Debian (next-stable) Testing".
>
> So if i understand it right i should:
>
> 1.Install Debian stable

See Darac Marjal's comment.

> 2.Upgrade to testing by editing source.list according to the
> instructions i found on that link.

If you want to stay with stretch, use the option in the instructions to use 
the name stretch in your sources list.

> 3.After Debian stretch becomes stable i should edit again source.list
> file by uncommenting the security updates and other stable specific
> lines that i commented on step 2.

Yes.  And change all references to jessie to stretch.

Lisi

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 05:57:29PM +0300, G wrote:

Hello.
I'm new here so i would like to confirm/ask some questions.

First of all as far as i can understand Debian stretch is frozen. And is
becoming more and more stable since no more packages are added and from
now on the development team just fix bugs.

I'm thinking installing Debian testing (stretch)on my laptop and then
follow stretch but i am wondering what will happen when todays Debian
testing becomes stable. Am i have to reinstall Debian when testing
becomes stable?


In essence, "releasing" Debian merely involves changing the destination
of some links on the repository servers (there's probably more to it,
but this is the user-visible effect).

At the moment "stable" points to "jessie", "testing" points to "stretch"
and "unstable" points to "sid". On the day of release "stable" will be
made to point to "stretch", "testing" will be made to point to "buster"
and "unstable" will remain pointing to "sid" (sid is always unstable).

So the question remains as to how you refer to things in your
/etc/apt/sources.list. If you have the word "testing" in your
sources.list, then at the momnet, you'll getting the pre-release
"stretch" packages. After release, you'll move forward to "buster" and
you'll see the rapid influx of packages from unstable as the development
focus moves. If you have the word "stretch" in your sources.list,
instead, then you will move from "pre-released stretch" to "released
stretch" which should effectively mean no visible change at your end at
all.



I search around and found this https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
It has a section "How to use Debian (next-stable) Testing".

So if i understand it right i should:

1.Install Debian stable
2.Upgrade to testing by editing source.list according to the
instructions i found on that link.


Actually, if you want to install testing/stretch, you'd be better off
using the testing version of the debian installer:
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ This will A) get you
straight into testing and B) include any installer-related changes that
you may need (for example, I recently installed to an NVMe drive, which
the stable installer couldn't see).



3.After Debian stretch becomes stable i should edit again source.list
file by uncommenting the security updates and other stable specific
lines that i commented on step 2.

I'm not missing something right?

Thanks in advance for your help.



--
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 05:57:29PM +0300, G wrote:
> I'm thinking installing Debian testing (stretch)on my laptop and then
> follow stretch but i am wondering what will happen when todays Debian
> testing becomes stable. Am i have to reinstall Debian when testing
> becomes stable?

No.  You just keep doing "apt update" and "apt upgrade" to continue
receiving stretch updates and fixes.

The only thing you might have to change is adding a security.debian.org
line (or two) once stretch becomes stable and starts getting security.d.o
support.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[G]

Hello.
I'm new here so i would like to confirm/ask some questions.

First of all as far as i can understand Debian stretch is frozen. And is
becoming more and more stable since no more packages are added and from
now on the development team just fix bugs.

I'm thinking installing Debian testing (stretch)on my laptop and then
follow stretch but i am wondering what will happen when todays Debian
testing becomes stable. Am i have to reinstall Debian when testing
becomes stable?

I search around and found this https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
It has a section "How to use Debian (next-stable) Testing".

So if i understand it right i should:

1.Install Debian stable
2.Upgrade to testing by editing source.list according to the
instructions i found on that link.

3.After Debian stretch becomes stable i should edit again source.list
file by uncommenting the security updates and other stable specific
lines that i commented on step 2.

I'm not missing something right?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/16/2017 11:23 PM, Ric Moore wrote:

On 05/16/2017 11:04 PM, SDA wrote:

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


*ROFL!*  ;/
I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century.
About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the 
gloppy GUI

of an organization recently in the news.
I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was
chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and 
breath of

easily installed tested software.


IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of
traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of 
time is

spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel
that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you
should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking
ridiculous!


My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"


Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend 
all my

time at the keyboard!



If he's like me, an amputee in a wheelchair, keeping the ole brain 
active, while everything else is failing, isn't a bad thing. I also 
watch a lot of cooking shows, but that is another matter.  Ric


I'm disabled with Fibromyalgia and work from home. I can't afford to 
retire. And I spend almost all my time at the computer. I love watching 
YouTube (Gak!! *cough* Ok... some channels are actually pretty good). 
Though they are not cooking shows. Mostly sci-fi, spiritual, music, and 
tech and art or DIY related.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/16/2017 02:18 PM, deloptes wrote:

Thanatos Incarnate wrote:


My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then
Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts
(Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your Icedove
profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme, but then
also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...). Of course,
the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll have. So, while
Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your crazy even on Sid, KDE
or Gnome might.


To all that like the old stable style of DE I recommend TDE
http://trinitydesktop.org


That looked interesting! I used to use KDE all the time and then decided 
to use XFCE after finding that KDE kept my laptop fan running and the 
laptop running hot all the time. I don't have that happening in XFCE 
(but did add some power control stuff which may have helped as well). I 
also got quite used to XFCE and the fact that everything looks the same. 
No more GTK looking one way and KDE stuff looking another way.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/16/2017 07:22 AM, Thanatos Incarnate wrote:

Hello there,


My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then 
Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts 
(Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your Icedove 
profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme, but then 
also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...). Of course, 
the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll have. So, while 
Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your crazy even on Sid, KDE 
or Gnome might.


Well, I keep Firefox as a backup, use Thunderbird a lot, but never used 
Icedove. I use XFCE and not KDE (but was thinking of returning to KDE, 
not sure right now), and don't use PIMs at all. I don't know what 
Openbox is either. :)


I have a pretty functional development system setup and it works well 
for me. But the packages are probably very outdated. I would love to 
have newer packages.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 06:26:51PM -0400, Fungi4All wrote:
> But in recent times have brought me various frustrations with deb...
> particularly with resolv.conf acting as it has a mind of its own and
> vanishing my set of dns collections and replacing them with its believed to
> be best for me.

If you run as a DHCP client, the dhclient program requests DNS nameservers
and hostname and domain from the DHCP server by default, periodically.
It will overwrite /etc/resolv.conf if configured to do so.  It is
configured to do so by default.  So, you will change this.

Step 1: Remove the resolvconf package, if it is installed.

Step 2: Edit /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf and either make it stop requesting
nameserver info altogether by removing these lines:

titan:/etc/dhcp$ diff -u dhclient.conf.20170510 dhclient.conf
--- dhclient.conf.20170510  2017-05-10 18:49:25.838259274 -0400
+++ dhclient.conf   2017-05-10 18:49:58.426123217 -0400
@@ -20,8 +20,6 @@
 #supersede domain-name "fugue.com home.vix.com";
 #prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
 request subnet-mask, broadcast-address, time-offset, routers,
-   domain-name, domain-name-servers, domain-search, host-name,
-   dhcp6.name-servers, dhcp6.domain-search,
netbios-name-servers, netbios-scope, interface-mtu,
rfc3442-classless-static-routes, ntp-servers;
 #require subnet-mask, domain-name-servers;

Or, if you prefer, you can uncomment and edit the lines that say
"supersede domain-name" and "prepend domain-name-servers".  If you do
it that way, dhclient will still request the information, and it will
still overwrite /etc/resolv.conf periodically, but it will do so with
your edits in mind.  And you'll have to remember that directly editing
/etc/resolv.conf will not work.

I'll assume you chose to delete the lines indicated in the diff, because
this is much simpler.

Step 3: Bring your network interface down and back up, to restart the
dhclient program.  Otherwise, the already-running dhclient will
continue requesting nameserver info from your DHCP server, undoing
your edits continually.  You can either reboot, or run "ifdown eth0"
and "ifup eth0", assuming your network interface is eth0.

Step 4: Edit /etc/resolv.conf as you see fit.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/16/2017 10:23 PM, Ric Moore wrote:

On 05/16/2017 11:04 PM, SDA wrote:

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


*ROFL!*  ;/
I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century.
About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the
gloppy GUI
of an organization recently in the news.
I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was
chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and
breath of
easily installed tested software.


IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of
traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of
time is
spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel
that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you
should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking
ridiculous!


My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"


Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend
all my
time at the keyboard!



If he's like me, an amputee in a wheelchair, keeping the ole brain
active, while everything else is failing, isn't a bad thing. I also
watch a lot of cooking shows, but that is another matter.  Ric



Legs still attached. However two vertebrae have seen better days 
resulting in Cauda Equina Syndrome. Prognosis seven years ago was 
lifetime wheelchair. Now, away from home it's a pair of canes or a 
walker. At home it's more efficient to use my wheelchair. I also watch 
cooking shows ;/

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[deloptes]

Fungi4All wrote:

> The best thing about manjaro is that it is not ubuntu (which is like
> Debian in drag without a personality) and I don't dare even look at
> someone's machine that mentions mint. Ubuntu to me is like a Porsche 914,
> a VW beatle mascaraded into a sports car. I'll just go with Fiat for now
> and keep debian as a challenging sport for the weekend.

Perhaps you've missed the KDE3 series - which is now TDE. All you are
talking about is ubuntu and Gnome - which IMO are not meant to be friendly
when it comes to changing things. You can of course learn all the details
how you proceed with them, but is it really necessary? I gave up years ago
on them.

I think LXDE is also based on Gnome, but not sure.

I also think we are going off topic now.

regards

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Ric Moore]

On 05/16/2017 11:04 PM, SDA wrote:

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


*ROFL!*  ;/
I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century.
About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the gloppy GUI
of an organization recently in the news.
I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was
chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and breath of
easily installed tested software.


IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of
traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of time is
spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel
that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you
should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking
ridiculous!


My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"


Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend all my
time at the keyboard!



If he's like me, an amputee in a wheelchair, keeping the ole brain 
active, while everything else is failing, isn't a bad thing. I also 
watch a lot of cooking shows, but that is another matter.  Ric



--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[SDA]

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> *ROFL!*  ;/
> I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century.
> About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the gloppy GUI
> of an organization recently in the news.
> I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was
> chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and breath of
> easily installed tested software.

IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of 
traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of time is 
spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel 
that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you 
should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking 
ridiculous!
 
> My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"

Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend all my 
time at the keyboard! 

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Fungi4All]

I've been cheating after years of being a debian purist. I do like lxde and 
often plain openbox with my custom panel. But in recent times have brought me 
various frustrations with deb... particularly with resolv.conf acting as it has 
a mind of its own and vanishing my set of dns collections and replacing them 
with its believed to be best for me.
I tried Manjaro LXDE and it seems rock solid, logical and sensical.
The variety of packages is not there, there may be many things you do with 
debian that may not be able to be done with Manjaro, but for day to day average 
clean work (apart from system/net maintenance) it is a killer system. There is 
a bit of a "lack of control" feeling with much of its automation, but lately 
debian has had some of that feeling as well.

I just get sick and tired of spending hours on .conf.files and then some update 
of package and they are either gone or obsolete or both. Debian doesn't like us 
to configure things on our own anymore. Then there are services being turned 
off and the next time you look they are up and running again. If you have other 
work to do than to be fiddling and chasing the running system around all day 
this has become a nightmare. It is like a hunting sport. I suspect many systems 
are evolving in such complex ways that some of us can not follow anymore.

The best thing about manjaro is that it is not ubuntu (which is like Debian in 
drag without a personality) and I don't dare even look at someone's machine 
that mentions mint. Ubuntu to me is like a Porsche 914, a VW beatle mascaraded 
into a sports car. I'll just go with Fiat for now and keep debian as a 
challenging sport for the weekend.

:)

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Felix Miata]

Richard Owlett composed on 2017-05-16 06:17 (UTC-0500):

> On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote:

>> I wouldn't use dedicated boot partition in your case. For testing
>> you can leave all on one partition. If you use dedicated boot
>> partition and want to share it among different installs - watch out
>> to not format it ... and you  must keep all your kernels+initrd there.

> I'm unclear as to "dedicated boot partition" above.
> My typical install procedure results in a directory structure as below:
> richard@stretch-2nd:/$ dir
> bin   etc   initrd.img.old  media  proc  sbin  tmp  vmlinuz
> boot  home  lib mntroot  srv   usr  vmlinuz.old
> dev   initrd.img  lost+foundoptrun   sys   var

> Are you referring to the "boot" in that list?
> I've may have been a computer *user* for a half-century.
> But I have little formal background ;}

"Dedicated boot partition" normally refers to the boot directory you see in your
dir output having a filesystem mounted to it in /etc/fstab.

It doesn't have to be so. I have dedicated boot partitions, meaning FOSS native
filesystem primary partition on each BIOS disk 0, with Grub installed on it that
I manage entirely myself, and which I do *not* mount to /boot/, in order to
maintain exclusive control of it on PCs with as many as 40 installed operating
systems.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[deloptes]

Thanatos Incarnate wrote:

> My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then
> Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts
> (Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your Icedove
> profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme, but then
> also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...). Of course,
> the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll have. So, while
> Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your crazy even on Sid, KDE
> or Gnome might.

To all that like the old stable style of DE I recommend TDE
http://trinitydesktop.org

God bless Mr. Pearson!

PIM works like a charm. I also added plugins for bluetooth sync in
syncevolution and been using this in the past year with relieve after being
unable to sync for more than 10y.

regards

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[David Wright]

On Tue 16 May 2017 at 08:58:27 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/16/2017 06:26 AM, Darac Marjal wrote:
> >On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 06:17:38AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote:
> >>>Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio
> >>>-Hnewc -i
> >>>
> >>
> >>I may not be "prophet or son of a prophet", but I see a "lab
> >>practical" on parsing in my future.
> >
> >You may find https://explainshell.com useful.
> 
> Bookmarked! It also has some interesting links.
> 
> >There you can paste in
> >command lines and the commands will be explained. For this instance:
> >https://explainshell.com/explain?cmd=mkdir+test+%26%26+cd+test+%26%26+zcat+%2Fboot%2Finitrd.img-`uname+-r`+|+cpio+-Hnewc+-i
> >
> 
> The link didn't survive the email process, but intended URL was clear.

That's odd. I can still lift it straight from your reply's quote,
and even 3rd-hand from this composition buffer, without any problem.

> Due to my learning style, I still see a "lab practical" on parsing
> in my future. That page will be a good check on my understanding.
> Thank you.

Cheers,
David.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/16/2017 06:26 AM, Darac Marjal wrote:

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 06:17:38AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:





mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio
-Hnewc -i



I may not be "prophet or son of a prophet", but I see a "lab
practical" on parsing in my future.


You may find https://explainshell.com useful.


Bookmarked! It also has some interesting links.


There you can paste in
command lines and the commands will be explained. For this instance:
https://explainshell.com/explain?cmd=mkdir+test+%26%26+cd+test+%26%26+zcat+%2Fboot%2Finitrd.img-`uname+-r`+|+cpio+-Hnewc+-i



The link didn't survive the email process, but intended URL was clear.

Due to my learning style, I still see a "lab practical" on parsing in my 
future. That page will be a good check on my understanding.

Thank you.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/16/2017 06:22 AM, Thanatos Incarnate wrote:

Hello there,


Hi right back ;}



My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then
Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts
(Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your
Icedove profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme,
but then also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...).
Of course, the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll
have. So, while Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your
crazy even on Sid, KDE or Gnome might.


*ROFL!*  ;/
I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century.
About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the gloppy 
GUI of an organization recently in the news.
I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was 
chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and breath 
of easily installed tested software.


"Stability" was a secondary criterion. The the timing of the move to 
Testing was motivated by availability of a more current version of one 
application. The rest, as they say, is history.


My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Darac Marjal]

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 06:17:38AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:





mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio -Hnewc -i



I may not be "prophet or son of a prophet", but I see a "lab 
practical" on parsing in my future.


You may find https://explainshell.com useful. There you can paste in
command lines and the commands will be explained. For this instance:
https://explainshell.com/explain?cmd=mkdir+test+%26%26+cd+test+%26%26+zcat+%2Fboot%2Finitrd.img-`uname+-r`+|+cpio+-Hnewc+-i


--
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Thanatos Incarnate]

Hello there,


My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then 
Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts 
(Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your Icedove 
profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme, but then 
also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...). Of course, 
the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll have. So, while 
Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your crazy even on Sid, KDE 
or Gnome might.



Regards,

Thane.


On 16.05.2017 13:17, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:


On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote:

On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:

On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
RavenLX  wrote:


On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have a partition whose label is "common".


I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I 
used

to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of
dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and 
SolydK

distributions.

In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
(necessity for what I need to do as well).

But that was one way I had shared data.

However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )



Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard 
drive

with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
anything that isn't an ARM.



Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules
installation"?


Recall this d-i screen?


I do now ;)
Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list.
That may that may explain something I've recently noticed.
As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I 
routinely

can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices.

As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to
install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default
action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will
generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 
before

/dev/sda2).

What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly:
   1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze
  and Stretch later. It happily will boot all.
   2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was
  installed first and thus Grub is associated with it.
  Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub.
  Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web.
  However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie.
  Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step -
  haven't done any trouble shooting yet.

Two questions:
   1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and
  if so, how?
   2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning
  on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before
  /dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded.

TIA


If you like hacking the initrd


Not one of my life goals 



mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio 
-Hnewc -i




I may not be "prophet or son of a prophet", but I see a "lab 
practical" on parsing in my future.



...

find . ! -name *~ | cpio -H newc --create | gzip -9

/boot/initrd.img-`uname -r`


I foundthisvery useful over the years, especially for testing things
out 10MB would be enough for 1 kernel+initrd & co


While I was tweaking my "EXPERIMENTAL machine" partitioning for 
unrelated reasons, left the first GB unallocated.




I wouldn't use dedicated boot partition in your case. For testing
you can leave all on one partition. If you use dedicated boot
partition and want to share it among different installs - watch out
to not format it ... and you  must keep all your kernels+initrd there.



I'm unclear as to "dedicated boot partition" above.
My typical install procedure results in a directory structure as below:
richard@stretch-2nd:/$ dir
bin   etc  initrd.img.old  media  proc  sbin  tmp  vmlinuz
boot  home  lib  mnt root  srv   usr  vmlinuz.old
dev   initrd.img  lost+found  opt run   sys   var

Are you referring to the "boot" in that list?
I've may have been a computer *user* for a half-century.
But I have little formal background ;}


regards

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:


On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote:

On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:

On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
RavenLX  wrote:


On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have a partition whose label is "common".


I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used
to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of
dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK
distributions.

In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
(necessity for what I need to do as well).

But that was one way I had shared data.

However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )



Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive
with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
anything that isn't an ARM.



Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules
installation"?


Recall this d-i screen?


I do now ;)
Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list.
That may that may explain something I've recently noticed.
As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I routinely
can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices.

As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to
install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default
action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will
generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 before
/dev/sda2).

What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly:
   1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze
  and Stretch later. It happily will boot all.
   2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was
  installed first and thus Grub is associated with it.
  Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub.
  Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web.
  However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie.
  Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step -
  haven't done any trouble shooting yet.

Two questions:
   1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and
  if so, how?
   2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning
  on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before
  /dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded.

TIA


If you like hacking the initrd


Not one of my life goals 



mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio -Hnewc -i



I may not be "prophet or son of a prophet", but I see a "lab practical" 
on parsing in my future.



...

find . ! -name *~ | cpio -H newc --create | gzip -9

/boot/initrd.img-`uname -r`


I foundthisvery useful over the years, especially for testing things
out 10MB would be enough for 1 kernel+initrd & co


While I was tweaking my "EXPERIMENTAL machine" partitioning for 
unrelated reasons, left the first GB unallocated.




I wouldn't use dedicated boot partition in your case. For testing
you can leave all on one partition. If you use dedicated boot
partition and want to share it among different installs - watch out
to not format it ... and you  must keep all your kernels+initrd there.



I'm unclear as to "dedicated boot partition" above.
My typical install procedure results in a directory structure as below:
richard@stretch-2nd:/$ dir
bin   etc initrd.img.old  media  proc  sbin  tmp  vmlinuz
boot  homelib mntroot  srv   usr  vmlinuz.old
dev   initrd.img  lost+found  optrun   sys   var

Are you referring to the "boot" in that list?
I've may have been a computer *user* for a half-century.
But I have little formal background ;}


regards

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[deloptes]

Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote:
>> On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:
 On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
 RavenLX  wrote:

> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I have a partition whose label is "common".
>
> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used
> to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of
> dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK
> distributions.
>
> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
> (necessity for what I need to do as well).
>
> But that was one way I had shared data.
>
> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )
>

 Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive
 with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
 anything that isn't an ARM.

>>>
>>> Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules
>>> installation"?
>>
>> Recall this d-i screen?
> 
> I do now ;)
> Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list.
> That may that may explain something I've recently noticed.
> As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I routinely
> can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices.
> 
> As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to
> install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default
> action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will
> generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 before
> /dev/sda2).
> 
> What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly:
>1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze
>   and Stretch later. It happily will boot all.
>2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was
>   installed first and thus Grub is associated with it.
>   Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub.
>   Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web.
>   However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie.
>   Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step -
>   haven't done any trouble shooting yet.
> 
> Two questions:
>1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and
>   if so, how?
>2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning
>   on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before
>   /dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded.
> 
> TIA

If you like hacking the initrd

mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio -Hnewc -i

...

find . ! -name *~ | cpio -H newc --create | gzip -9
> /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r`

I foundthisvery useful over the years, especially for testing things out

10MB would be enough for 1 kernel+initrd & co

I wouldn't use dedicated boot partition in your case. For testing you can
leave all on one partition. If you use dedicated boot partition and want to
share it among different installs - watch out to not format it ... and you
must keep all your kernels+initrd there.

regards

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Brian]

On Sun 14 May 2017 at 08:57:55 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

>   1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and
>  if so, how?

https://wiki.debian.org/Initrd

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

Thank you.

On 05/14/2017 07:09 AM, Joe wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2017 04:57:07 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:


On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
RavenLX  wrote:


On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have a partition whose label is "common".


I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I
used to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a
fan of dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX
and SolydK distributions.

In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
(necessity for what I need to do as well).

But that was one way I had shared data.

However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )



Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard
drive with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on
practically anything that isn't an ARM.



Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules
installation"? TIA




Question during installation: 'Do you want all driver modules or just
the ones that apply to this hardware' or something similar. On every
other occasion I go for 'just the ones needed'.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote:

On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:

On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
RavenLX  wrote:


On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have a partition whose label is "common".


I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used
to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of
dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK
distributions.

In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
(necessity for what I need to do as well).

But that was one way I had shared data.

However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )



Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive
with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
anything that isn't an ARM.



Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules installation"?


Recall this d-i screen?


I do now ;)
Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list.
That may that may explain something I've recently noticed.
As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I routinely 
can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices.


As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to 
install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default 
action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will 
generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 before 
/dev/sda2).


What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly:
  1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze
 and Stretch later. It happily will boot all.
  2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was
 installed first and thus Grub is associated with it.
 Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub.
 Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web.
 However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie.
 Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step -
 haven't done any trouble shooting yet.

Two questions:
  1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and
 if so, how?
  2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning
 on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before
 /dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded.

TIA

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Joe]

On Sun, 14 May 2017 04:57:07 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
> > RavenLX  wrote:
> >  
> >> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:  
> >>> I have a partition whose label is "common".  
> >>
> >> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I
> >> used to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a
> >> fan of dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX
> >> and SolydK distributions.
> >>
> >> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
> >> (necessity for what I need to do as well).
> >>
> >> But that was one way I had shared data.
> >>
> >> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )
> >>  
> >
> > Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard
> > drive with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on
> > practically anything that isn't an ARM.
> >  
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules
> installation"? TIA
> 
> 

Question during installation: 'Do you want all driver modules or just
the ones that apply to this hardware' or something similar. On every
other occasion I go for 'just the ones needed'.

-- 
Joe

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[David Wright]

On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:
> >On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
> >RavenLX  wrote:
> >
> >>On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>>I have a partition whose label is "common".
> >>
> >>I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used
> >>to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of
> >>dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK
> >>distributions.
> >>
> >>In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
> >>(necessity for what I need to do as well).
> >>
> >>But that was one way I had shared data.
> >>
> >>However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )
> >>
> >
> >Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive
> >with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
> >anything that isn't an ARM.
> >
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules installation"?

Recall this d-i screen?

  ┌─┤ [?] Install the base system 
├─┐   
  │ 
│   
  │ The primary function of an initrd is to allow the kernel to mount the root  
│   
  │ file system. It therefore needs to contain all drivers and supporting   
│   
  │ programs required to do that.   
│   
  │ 
│   
  │ A generic initrd is much larger than a targeted one and may even be so 
large│   
  │ that some boot loaders are unable to load it but has the advantage that it  
│   
  │ can be used to boot the target system on almost any hardware. With the  
│   
  │ smaller targeted initrd there is a very small chance that not all needed
│   
  │ drivers are included.   
│   
  │ 
│   
  │ Drivers to include in the initrd:   
│   
  │ 
│   
  │generic: include all available drivers   
│   
  │targeted: only include drivers needed for this system
│   
  │ 
│   
  │
│   
  │ 
│   
  
└─┘
   

Cheers,
David.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
RavenLX  wrote:


On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have a partition whose label is "common".


I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used
to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of
dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK
distributions.

In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
(necessity for what I need to do as well).

But that was one way I had shared data.

However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )



Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive
with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
anything that isn't an ARM.



Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules installation"?
TIA

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Joe]

On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
RavenLX  wrote:

> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > I have a partition whose label is "common".  
> 
> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used
> to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of 
> dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK 
> distributions.
> 
> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory 
> (necessity for what I need to do as well).
> 
> But that was one way I had shared data.
> 
> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )
> 

Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive
with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
anything that isn't an ARM.

-- 
Joe

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have a partition whose label is "common".


I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used to 
dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of 
dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK 
distributions.


In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory 
(necessity for what I need to do as well).


But that was one way I had shared data.

However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/13/2017 07:08 AM, RavenLX wrote:

[snip]
Also I hate dual-booting. I normally forget the other OS is there
and it just sets there just taking up HD space instead.
[snip]

Having dual boot systems has it's advantages and disadvantages. But in
my particular case, I've found virtual machines to be more to my
liking as they don't require me to dual boot.

Also on the "other OS" I would still have emails, etc in that
version's thunderbird and it would be a hassle to keep having to
import them all to the "main" OS, and I don't like having to remember
(and always forgetting) to pop in a USB stick to save/get emails.
[snip]


I've had a loosely similar situation. I multi-boot diferent 
configurations of Debian 8 and 9 - at least 2 of each. I use SeaMonkey 
available at https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/ . I move 
between configurations sereral times a day. I have a solution which 
works for me. Although I know of purists who say "Don't do that" ;/
I suspect a similar a similar scheme should work with a VM. [I avoid 
VM's more than you avoid multi-boot ;]


I have a partition whose label is "common".
The relevant fstab entry is:
  LABEL=common  /usr/local/common  ext4  defaults  0  0
I invoke SeaMonkey with:
  /usr/local/common/seamonkey/seamonkey
It looks for profiles.ini in:
  /home/richard/.mozilla/seamonkey

The  directory structure is

richard@stretch-2nd:/usr/local/common$ tree -d -L 1 *
from old stretch
├── Desktop
└── Documents
Misc notes
mytemporary
└── WordPress info
seamonkey
├── chrome
├── components
├── defaults
├── dictionaries
├── extensions
├── icons
├── isp
├── profiles
└── searchplugins

12 directories
richard@stretch-2nd:/usr/local/common$

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[songbird]

RavenLX wrote:
> On 05/10/2017 07:57 AM, songbird wrote:
>>you can set up several partitions with different
>> levels of fun if you want.
>
> My spare laptop has a 250 GB HD and the laptop I use all the time has a 
> 600 GB HD. I already have both partitioned for *one* OS - Debian 8. I 
> really don't want to go through repartitioning or reinstalling the whole 
> thing because I have a quite a lot of programs (some of which I have to 
> use for a jobs) and configurations which take a long time to put 
> together. I simply don't have the time right now because of work and 
> other commitments.

  sure, it is all about choice.  i think from what you
write that using stable makes the most sense.


> Also I hate dual-booting. I normally forget the other OS is there and it 
> just sets there just taking up HD space instead.

  when i boot the machine the grub menu shows it (with
a delay so that if i choose nothing it will boot into
the default setup).  i ignore it for a few months at a
time then when i've used most programs and everything
seems to be ok then i do choose to boot that other
setup and update it then.


> What I did was updated a Debian 8 Virtual Machine (on VirtualBox). I 
> have it but guess what? I haven't felt up to (nor had the time to) do 
> anything with it since. I may end up having to wait a couple months. 
> (Serves me right getting too curious!)
>
> Having dual boot systems has it's advantages and disadvantages. But in 
> my particular case, I've found virtual machines to be more to my liking 
> as they don't require me to dual boot.

  no problem with that.  :)


> Also on the "other OS" I would still have emails, etc in that version's 
> thunderbird and it would be a hassle to keep having to import them all 
> to the "main" OS, and I don't like having to remember (and always 
> forgetting) to pop in a USB stick to save/get emails.

  i use the other setup only as a backup so that if
the main/default setup doesn't work at least i know
i have a working comparison to go from.  i don't usually
keep everything in there (e-mails, usenet, etc.).


> My hardware pretty much has to stick to one OS and the spare laptop has 
> to be identical so I can just plop in the backed up files (I at least 
> remember out of habit to backup frequently) and get to work fast (which 
> may be needed at any time).
>
> This is why virtual machines come in so handy. I can clone one and go do 
> whatever it is I want/need to do. If it breaks, I can delete the 
> machine, clone another from the base and I'm good to go.

  that sounds pretty good and similar enough to what i'm
doing anyways.  virtual machines have come along in more
recent years compared to when i started out.


> As for the "base" virtual machines, I keep the base VMs updated once a 
> week and then condense, export and back them up. This way I have 
> something ready to go on the spare laptop (which doesn't contain any 
> data files that change regularly, just the programs needed to do the 
> work I need to do, and data that is almost never changing).
>
> I've found this setup to work best for me.

  great.  :)


>>the thing with these setups is that in Debian you
>> don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want
>> them so you know when the system is being upgraded.
>
> I do upgrades once a week, so that would be giving me yet another system 
> to upgrade and it would mean having to reboot and go into the other OS 
> to do it. Call me lazy, but I already have quite a few systems to update 
> every week now (2 laptops, an android phone, and 5 (so far) virtual 
> machines (which need to stay updated and ready to clone at any time for 
> use with development and testing). My computer is several years old so 
> it's not the fastest at rebooting (I think the VMs boot much faster).
>
> What I'll do is work in the virtual machine (when I have time that is) 
> and then decide from there. Who knows, at the rate it's taking me to get 
> around to doing any experimenting, by that time Stretch may have gone 
> stable. :-P

  it may...  seems to be coming along.


  songbird

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/10/2017 09:19 AM, Michael Milliman wrote:

On 05/10/2017 06:57 AM, songbird wrote:
[...]

   if you wanted to you could have one partition for
booting the stable distribution and only update that
when you have a good time for that.

   the thing with these setups is that in Debian you
don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want
them so you know when the system is being upgraded.


IMHO, this is a most excellent way of doing things, given that time is
available to maintain such a system.  This way, you have the best of all
worlds. And can incorporate newer packages and versions as they are
available and tested on your system into your working system.


"given that time is available to maintain such a system". That's where I 
seem to fall short. Time. And by the time I get done with my regular 
work (which lately I've been swamped with), I haven't really had the 
time to do any experimenting even with the Stretch virtual machine I've 
created (see my other longer reply on this).


For my situation, dual boot isn't a good trade-off. For others, it's the 
best way to go. Different situations call for different configurations. 
Virtual machines work best for my situation.


In fact, it was working with virtual machine versions of Linux that got 
me convinced (rather quickly, I might add) to switch from Windows to a 
GNU/Linux distro in the first place! That was almost 4.5 years ago and I 
have no intention of leaving! :) I used to distro-hop but I think I am 
going to stick with Debian now. I have to use Ubuntu at work, as it is 
so at least it's somewhat familiar.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/10/2017 07:57 AM, songbird wrote:

   you can set up several partitions with different
levels of fun if you want.


My spare laptop has a 250 GB HD and the laptop I use all the time has a 
600 GB HD. I already have both partitioned for *one* OS - Debian 8. I 
really don't want to go through repartitioning or reinstalling the whole 
thing because I have a quite a lot of programs (some of which I have to 
use for a jobs) and configurations which take a long time to put 
together. I simply don't have the time right now because of work and 
other commitments.


Also I hate dual-booting. I normally forget the other OS is there and it 
just sets there just taking up HD space instead.


What I did was updated a Debian 8 Virtual Machine (on VirtualBox). I 
have it but guess what? I haven't felt up to (nor had the time to) do 
anything with it since. I may end up having to wait a couple months. 
(Serves me right getting too curious!)


Having dual boot systems has it's advantages and disadvantages. But in 
my particular case, I've found virtual machines to be more to my liking 
as they don't require me to dual boot.


Also on the "other OS" I would still have emails, etc in that version's 
thunderbird and it would be a hassle to keep having to import them all 
to the "main" OS, and I don't like having to remember (and always 
forgetting) to pop in a USB stick to save/get emails.


My hardware pretty much has to stick to one OS and the spare laptop has 
to be identical so I can just plop in the backed up files (I at least 
remember out of habit to backup frequently) and get to work fast (which 
may be needed at any time).


This is why virtual machines come in so handy. I can clone one and go do 
whatever it is I want/need to do. If it breaks, I can delete the 
machine, clone another from the base and I'm good to go.


As for the "base" virtual machines, I keep the base VMs updated once a 
week and then condense, export and back them up. This way I have 
something ready to go on the spare laptop (which doesn't contain any 
data files that change regularly, just the programs needed to do the 
work I need to do, and data that is almost never changing).


I've found this setup to work best for me.


   the thing with these setups is that in Debian you
don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want
them so you know when the system is being upgraded.


I do upgrades once a week, so that would be giving me yet another system 
to upgrade and it would mean having to reboot and go into the other OS 
to do it. Call me lazy, but I already have quite a few systems to update 
every week now (2 laptops, an android phone, and 5 (so far) virtual 
machines (which need to stay updated and ready to clone at any time for 
use with development and testing). My computer is several years old so 
it's not the fastest at rebooting (I think the VMs boot much faster).


What I'll do is work in the virtual machine (when I have time that is) 
and then decide from there. Who knows, at the rate it's taking me to get 
around to doing any experimenting, by that time Stretch may have gone 
stable. :-P

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[kamaraju kusumanchi]

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:03 PM, RavenLX  wrote:
> My system is used for work (I work from home exclusively) and stuff I do
> sometimes can be mission-critical in that if I'm notified, I might have to
> go and do some work right away on something important. Customers would be
> relying on my ability to fix things. So, I really can't afford something to
> go down on my machine. This is why I have a spare laptop just in case my
> "main" laptop has a problem. They are both set up identical and data files
> are backed up very frequently so all I need to do is get the backups onto
> the spare laptop and be good to go within minutes.
>
> Stability, in my case, is a must. However, I do like to have newer features
> as well.

Use stable. When stability is important, that is the correct
distribution to use. You might also like
http://kamarajukusumanchi.github.io/choosing_debian_distribution/choosing_debian_distribution.html
which contains a bunch of FAQs that come up in choosing the right
distribution. It has not been updated in a while (so the names of
stable, testing are different) but the content should still be
relevant.

hth
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi | http://raju.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Blog

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Fungi4All]

From: rave...@sitesplace.net

>My system is used for work (I work from home exclusively) and stuff I do
>sometimes can be mission-critical in that if I'm notified, I might have
>to go and do some work right away on something important. Customers
>would be relying on my ability to fix things. So, I really can't afford
>something to go down on my machine. This is why I have a spare laptop
>just in case my "main" laptop has a problem. They are both set up
>identical and data files are backed up very frequently so all I need to
>do is get the backups onto the spare laptop and be good to go within
>minutes.
>
>Stability, in my case, is a must. However, I do like to have newer
>features as well.

I'd say based on what you describe you should keep your old system and just 
create a small partition to practice debian on your spare time.

By the way, did you guys hear about the mother of all security bugs that was 
uncovered last weekend that affects all ms-win 7,8,10 by some google 
project-group who have yet to uncover a ton of security bugs on android? MS 
already patched it for all the valid licensed customers, which leaves a few 
million out on their crack-jobs.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Michael Milliman]

On 05/10/2017 06:57 AM, songbird wrote:
[...]
>   if you wanted to you could have one partition for
> booting the stable distribution and only update that
> when you have a good time for that.
> 
>   the thing with these setups is that in Debian you
> don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want
> them so you know when the system is being upgraded.
> 
IMHO, this is a most excellent way of doing things, given that time is
available to maintain such a system.  This way, you have the best of all
worlds. And can incorporate newer packages and versions as they are
available and tested on your system into your working system.


> 
>   songbird
> 

-- 
73's,
WB5VQX -- The Very Quick X-ray

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[songbird]

RavenLX wrote:
> My system is used for work (I work from home exclusively) and stuff I do 
> sometimes can be mission-critical in that if I'm notified, I might have 
> to go and do some work right away on something important. Customers 
> would be relying on my ability to fix things. So, I really can't afford 
> something to go down on my machine. This is why I have a spare laptop 
> just in case my "main" laptop has a problem. They are both set up 
> identical and data files are backed up very frequently so all I need to 
> do is get the backups onto the spare laptop and be good to go within 
> minutes.
>
> Stability, in my case, is a must. However, I do like to have newer 
> features as well.

  you can set up several partitions with different
levels of fun if you want.

  i run testing and some packages from unstable or
experimental at times as two different booting systems.
to make sure that i always have a bootable system i 
only update the partitions in steps several months 
apart which means i have at least one of them that 
boots and is pretty well tested for the programs i
use the most often.

  if you wanted to you could have one partition for
booting the stable distribution and only update that
when you have a good time for that.

  the thing with these setups is that in Debian you
don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want
them so you know when the system is being upgraded.


  songbird

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

My system is used for work (I work from home exclusively) and stuff I do 
sometimes can be mission-critical in that if I'm notified, I might have 
to go and do some work right away on something important. Customers 
would be relying on my ability to fix things. So, I really can't afford 
something to go down on my machine. This is why I have a spare laptop 
just in case my "main" laptop has a problem. They are both set up 
identical and data files are backed up very frequently so all I need to 
do is get the backups onto the spare laptop and be good to go within 
minutes.


Stability, in my case, is a must. However, I do like to have newer 
features as well.



On 05/07/2017 07:45 PM, Michael Milliman wrote:

Yeah, this is one of the main things sited as a drawback to the Debian
distributionpackages are sometimes a little older than in other
distributions.  But, this is because the Debian developers spend so much
time making sure that they work properly in the distribution before they
are released in the repositories.  As a result, things change a lot less
frequently.  The benefit of this is that Debian is 'stable' in all
senses of the word...few serious bugs and system instability, and little
or no instability in what is part of the distribution.  For many people,
especially businesses, this stability is important.  For others, like
myself, I can afford a little more instability, and so can deal with any
instability in testing for the benefit of getting newer versions of the
packages and run Testing (Stretch). Many people also run Experimental
(Sid) for the benefit of bleeding-edge versions of software, but a lot
of instability (in all senses of the word).

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Brian]

On Mon 08 May 2017 at 17:07:34 +0200, Sven Hartge wrote:

> Brian  wrote:
> 
> > experimental is not a distribution. Someone with a sense of humour gave
> > it the codename "rc-buggy". At the present time many of the packages
> > there are being held back from unstable because of the freeze. Once
> > Stretch is officially released they will migrate to unstable.
> 
> Just to clarify: They will not "migrate" in the same sense as packages
> migrate from Unstable to Testing automatically. To "migrate" a package
> from Experimental to Unstable the maintainer has to reupload it with a
> higher version number.

That is correct. I was using "migrate" in the general sense of "moving".
Some packages can be in experimental a long time for one reason or
another. For example, experimental pmount fixes a particular bug. If a
user wants that version for that reason there is no need to be afraid to
try it. pmount is orphaned and, as yet, no one has seen fit to move it
to unstable.

Another example (from memory) is polkit. There is an aspect to it which
its maintainer does not want to unleash on unstable as yet. cups and
cups-filters, however, is in experimental probably because its
maintainer does not want it to migrate to testing at this stage. The
version there is rock solid and new aspects to the software require more
exposure before being considered for stable at this late stage.

Different reasons for different packages.

-- 
Brian.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Sat, May 06, 2017 at 05:55:44PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> I am thinking about trying out Stretch (Debian 9) in either a spare laptop
> or a virtual machine. If I like it I might just point my sources list to
> that repo on both laptops if it's stable enough.

At this point - except for an important production service - I'd install stretch
over jessie with no hesitation. *Especially* on a throw-away VM or spare laptop
(in fact I have done so on several of both, many times, in the last few weeks).

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Sven Hartge]

Brian  wrote:

> experimental is not a distribution. Someone with a sense of humour gave
> it the codename "rc-buggy". At the present time many of the packages
> there are being held back from unstable because of the freeze. Once
> Stretch is officially released they will migrate to unstable.

Just to clarify: They will not "migrate" in the same sense as packages
migrate from Unstable to Testing automatically. To "migrate" a package
from Experimental to Unstable the maintainer has to reupload it with a
higher version number.

S°

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Brian]

On Mon 08 May 2017 at 12:13:30 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Monday 08 May 2017 00:45:34 Michael Milliman wrote:
> > Many people also run Experimental
> > (Sid) for the benefit of bleeding-edge versions of software, but a lot
> > of instability (in all senses of the word).
> 
> No, Sid is not the same as Experimental.  Sid is Unstable.  Then there is 
> also 
> Experimental, which cannot actually be run, but from which packages can be 
> taken (if you like to live dangerously ;-)  )

experimental is not a distribution. Someone with a sense of humour gave
it the codename "rc-buggy". At the present time many of the packages
there are being held back from unstable because of the freeze. Once
Stretch is officially released they will migrate to unstable. They will
be no less dangerous there than they were in experimental (unless bugs
have been fixed in the meantime).

However, I agree with your sentiment. Users installing packages from the
experimental archive should read the changelogs carefully and be prepared
to meet and report bugs.

-- 
Brian.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, May 06, 2017 at 07:38:34PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> What list do I report bugs to and is there something online that tells 
> someone (who doesn't normally report bugs) the proper way to do bug reports?

For most users, the preferred way is to run the reportbug program.

You can see more details (including other ways to file bug reports)
at http://bugs.debian.org/

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[songbird]

Michael Milliman wrote:
> On 05/07/2017 04:19 PM, RavenLX wrote:
>> On 05/07/2017 04:33 PM, cbannis...@kinect.co.nz wrote:
>>> By the way, the words "unstable" "stable" as used in the distribution
>>> names
>>> don't mean likely to crash, --- it refers to the amount of changes
>>> occurring, i.e. 'stable' has no new packages entering it, and
>>> supposedly only
>>> security updates, whereas "unstable" is unstable because there are many
>>> changes occuring on a constant basis.
>> 
>> Thank you for this info. I admit I always thought "unstable" meant it
>> might still have bugs or still be in beta. I don't mind when things
>> change frequently because sometimes this is how one can get new features
>> in a newer version of a program.
>> 
> Yeah, this is one of the main things sited as a drawback to the Debian
> distributionpackages are sometimes a little older than in other
> distributions.  But, this is because the Debian developers spend so much
> time making sure that they work properly in the distribution before they
> are released in the repositories.  As a result, things change a lot less
> frequently.  The benefit of this is that Debian is 'stable' in all
> senses of the word...few serious bugs and system instability, and little
> or no instability in what is part of the distribution.  For many people,
> especially businesses, this stability is important.  For others, like
> myself, I can afford a little more instability, and so can deal with any
> instability in testing for the benefit of getting newer versions of the
> packages and run Testing (Stretch).

> Many people also run Experimental (Sid) for the benefit of 
> bleeding-edge versions of software, but a lot of instability 
> (in all senses of the word).

  please note that Experimental is not the same as
unstable (Sid).  it is yet another repository and has no
claims of usability at all.


  songbird

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 08 May 2017 00:45:34 Michael Milliman wrote:
> Many people also run Experimental
> (Sid) for the benefit of bleeding-edge versions of software, but a lot
> of instability (in all senses of the word).

No, Sid is not the same as Experimental.  Sid is Unstable.  Then there is also 
Experimental, which cannot actually be run, but from which packages can be 
taken (if you like to live dangerously ;-)  )

Lisi

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Michael Milliman]

On 05/07/2017 04:19 PM, RavenLX wrote:
> On 05/07/2017 04:33 PM, cbannis...@kinect.co.nz wrote:
>> By the way, the words "unstable" "stable" as used in the distribution
>> names
>> don't mean likely to crash, --- it refers to the amount of changes
>> occurring, i.e. 'stable' has no new packages entering it, and
>> supposedly only
>> security updates, whereas "unstable" is unstable because there are many
>> changes occuring on a constant basis.
> 
> Thank you for this info. I admit I always thought "unstable" meant it
> might still have bugs or still be in beta. I don't mind when things
> change frequently because sometimes this is how one can get new features
> in a newer version of a program.
> 
Yeah, this is one of the main things sited as a drawback to the Debian
distributionpackages are sometimes a little older than in other
distributions.  But, this is because the Debian developers spend so much
time making sure that they work properly in the distribution before they
are released in the repositories.  As a result, things change a lot less
frequently.  The benefit of this is that Debian is 'stable' in all
senses of the word...few serious bugs and system instability, and little
or no instability in what is part of the distribution.  For many people,
especially businesses, this stability is important.  For others, like
myself, I can afford a little more instability, and so can deal with any
instability in testing for the benefit of getting newer versions of the
packages and run Testing (Stretch). Many people also run Experimental
(Sid) for the benefit of bleeding-edge versions of software, but a lot
of instability (in all senses of the word).
> 

-- 
73's,
WB5VQX -- The Very Quick X-ray

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 5/6/17, Michael Milliman  wrote:
>
> On 05/06/2017 04:55 PM, RavenLX wrote:
>> I am thinking about trying out Stretch (Debian 9) in either a spare
>> laptop or a virtual machine. If I like it I might just point my sources
>> list to that repo on both laptops if it's stable enough.
>>
> I can't speak categorically, but In installed Stretch a couple of months
> ago on my older laptop.  It has been running without a hitch 24/7 since
> then.


That's me, too. I can't remember exactly when, but i mentioned
something about it on here regarding Chromium several months ago. Sid
Unstable and I are on a break. It was just too much to keep up
with the FABULOUSLY active updates that are occurring.

So I skipped over Stretch and went with Jessie. Jessie lasted a grand
total of maybe about 3 days, I think it was. Websites keep complaining
that my Chromium was out of date. Unfortunately my Chromium was as
current as the repos had at that moment.

Tinkering to stay on Jessie was not a cognitively friendly option so I
stepped over to Stretch. If there has even been a tiny burp of a
problem, it was so small or was fixed so quickly that I don't remember
it.

#ThankYou, Developers! I'm about to do something extremely #Life
changing in a few minutes. I *literally* could not do it without all
the well functioning Debian packages I'm about to spend the entire
rest of the evening buried in

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* aumix, mtp, inkscape, gimp, openshot, thunar, xine, notes > YOU'RE ON DECK! *

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/07/2017 04:33 PM, cbannis...@kinect.co.nz wrote:

By the way, the words "unstable" "stable" as used in the distribution names
don't mean likely to crash, --- it refers to the amount of changes
occurring, i.e. 'stable' has no new packages entering it, and supposedly only
security updates, whereas "unstable" is unstable because there are many
changes occuring on a constant basis.


Thank you for this info. I admit I always thought "unstable" meant it 
might still have bugs or still be in beta. I don't mind when things 
change frequently because sometimes this is how one can get new features 
in a newer version of a program.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Michael Milliman]

My pleasure. Good luck!

73's,
de WB5VQX -- The Very Quick X-ray

On May 6, 2017 9:24 PM, "RavenLX"  wrote:

> On 05/06/2017 08:07 PM, Michael Milliman wrote:
>
>> That is most definitely NOT a dumb question!! It is difficult at times
>> to determine where to report bugs.  However, if the bug is within the
>> Debian distribution, I would use the Debian bug reporter to report it,
>> the development team will work with upstream as necessary to resolve the
>> problem.
>>
>
> You know what, I never realized that was in there! I had to find it in the
> debian menu in XFCE (which I rarely use, since I have everything I need in
> a side panel).
>
> Many thanks for this info.
>
>
>

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/06/2017 08:07 PM, Michael Milliman wrote:

That is most definitely NOT a dumb question!! It is difficult at times
to determine where to report bugs.  However, if the bug is within the
Debian distribution, I would use the Debian bug reporter to report it,
the development team will work with upstream as necessary to resolve the
problem. 


You know what, I never realized that was in there! I had to find it in 
the debian menu in XFCE (which I rarely use, since I have everything I 
need in a side panel).


Many thanks for this info.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Michael Milliman]

On 05/06/2017 06:38 PM, RavenLX wrote:
> On 05/06/2017 06:46 PM, Michael Milliman wrote:
>> beta testing.  Usually, by the time Stretch reaches the 'frozen' stage,
>> most of the major issues have been worked out, and it is reasonably
>> ready for production.  However, they may still be a few problems to be
>> worked out...it is a beta after all.
> 
> I have come to know over the years nothing is 100% perfect, even if it's
> out of beta. :) I've used beta software in the past that was very
> stable, and used stable software in the past that was buggier than
> you-know-what. (I must say the majority of the buggy software was back
> when I used to use Windows as my main OS). Since I use Debian as my main
> OS, I have had quite reliable and rock-solid results.
> 
>> I use out of distribution packages on occasion as well.  However, there
>> is no guarantee that such packages will work or continue to work under
>> the new distribution, even after it is released as Debian Stable.
> 
> The ones I use are Google Chrome (because I need to have things like
> bookmarks, etc. available across several devices), JEdit (I use this for
> development), TLP Power Management (because otherwise my laptop's fan
> would be on all the time and it would get quite hot for some reason),
> Thunderbird from Ubuntuzilla, and VirtualBox (because I like to have the
> latest). Also videolan is in there for the stuff needed for playing DVDs
> on my laptops. I don't use CiaroDock right now but I do have it
> commented out in case I want to go back to it. Also I added the
> backports repo. That's the crazy setup I have. I'm thinking of doing
> this for GIMP and Blender as well. Not sure yet. I like having new
> features. :) I'm considering going back to KDE and having the latest KDE
> updates, too (right now I'm doing quite well with XFCE from the Jessie
> repo). Sometimes I like to try different things (and do so usually first
> in a virtual machine for awhile).
> 
>> Having said that, if they worked under Debian 8, they may well work
>> under Debian 9.  Keep in mind, however, the libraries available with
>> Debian 9 will in many cases be new and updated versions, and may not be
>> the same as the ones used by the out of distribution packages. So there
>> may be some compatibility issues. (Issues I did have with one of the
>> out-of-distribution packages I use.)
> 
> I've had that happen a long time ago with something (I forgot what now).
> Very much a PITA.
> 
>> Give it a try.  If it works for you great.
> 
> Going to do that in a VM first.
> 
>> If you have problems,
>> especially with packages/libraries within the distribution, report them
>> so that they can be addressed and fixed.  That kind of input is
>> important in getting the Stretch distribution through the process to the
>> Stable distribution.
> 
> I'll earn the "dumb question of the century" award for this but...
> 
> What list do I report bugs to and is there something online that tells
> someone (who doesn't normally report bugs) the proper way to do bug
> reports?
> 
That is most definitely NOT a dumb question!! It is difficult at times
to determine where to report bugs.  However, if the bug is within the
Debian distribution, I would use the Debian bug reporter to report it,
the development team will work with upstream as necessary to resolve the
problem.  If if is out-of-distribution, they you would have to report it
through whatever method the package distributer provides for doing such
things, which varies from package to package.

> Thank you for the detailed information you gave. It's very much
> appreciated. :)
> 

-- 
73's,
WB5VQX -- The Very Quick X-ray

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/06/2017 06:46 PM, Michael Milliman wrote:

beta testing.  Usually, by the time Stretch reaches the 'frozen' stage,
most of the major issues have been worked out, and it is reasonably
ready for production.  However, they may still be a few problems to be
worked out...it is a beta after all.


I have come to know over the years nothing is 100% perfect, even if it's 
out of beta. :) I've used beta software in the past that was very 
stable, and used stable software in the past that was buggier than 
you-know-what. (I must say the majority of the buggy software was back 
when I used to use Windows as my main OS). Since I use Debian as my main 
OS, I have had quite reliable and rock-solid results.



I use out of distribution packages on occasion as well.  However, there
is no guarantee that such packages will work or continue to work under
the new distribution, even after it is released as Debian Stable.


The ones I use are Google Chrome (because I need to have things like 
bookmarks, etc. available across several devices), JEdit (I use this for 
development), TLP Power Management (because otherwise my laptop's fan 
would be on all the time and it would get quite hot for some reason), 
Thunderbird from Ubuntuzilla, and VirtualBox (because I like to have the 
latest). Also videolan is in there for the stuff needed for playing DVDs 
on my laptops. I don't use CiaroDock right now but I do have it 
commented out in case I want to go back to it. Also I added the 
backports repo. That's the crazy setup I have. I'm thinking of doing 
this for GIMP and Blender as well. Not sure yet. I like having new 
features. :) I'm considering going back to KDE and having the latest KDE 
updates, too (right now I'm doing quite well with XFCE from the Jessie 
repo). Sometimes I like to try different things (and do so usually first 
in a virtual machine for awhile).



Having said that, if they worked under Debian 8, they may well work
under Debian 9.  Keep in mind, however, the libraries available with
Debian 9 will in many cases be new and updated versions, and may not be
the same as the ones used by the out of distribution packages. So there
may be some compatibility issues. (Issues I did have with one of the
out-of-distribution packages I use.)


I've had that happen a long time ago with something (I forgot what now). 
Very much a PITA.



Give it a try.  If it works for you great.


Going to do that in a VM first.


If you have problems,
especially with packages/libraries within the distribution, report them
so that they can be addressed and fixed.  That kind of input is
important in getting the Stretch distribution through the process to the
Stable distribution.


I'll earn the "dumb question of the century" award for this but...

What list do I report bugs to and is there something online that tells 
someone (who doesn't normally report bugs) the proper way to do bug reports?


Thank you for the detailed information you gave. It's very much 
appreciated. :)

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

On 05/06/2017 06:31 PM, Fungi4All wrote:
First check the hardware differences that are supported, then take a 
look at the bug lists for testing and unstable to see if you are using 
any buggy packages that do not apply on stable.  If you don't see 
anything that relates to your use you will be happy.


Good idea. I didn't see anything that would be too much of a problem, 
overall (even on a virtual machine).


Don't let the terms testing/unstable scare you much.  Remember many 
distributions are based on those two and not stable.


It all depends on your specific use.


I remember some time back I used SolydK and if I remember right, they 
based theirs on Testing, come to think of it.

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Michael Milliman]

On 05/06/2017 04:55 PM, RavenLX wrote:
> I am thinking about trying out Stretch (Debian 9) in either a spare
> laptop or a virtual machine. If I like it I might just point my sources
> list to that repo on both laptops if it's stable enough.
> 
I can't speak categorically, but In installed Stretch a couple of months
ago on my older laptop.  It has been running without a hitch 24/7 since
then.
> My question is, once it's "frozen", how stable is it or is it still
> pretty much not suitable for production yet? 

The word 'stable' doesn't refer to the stability of the installed system
vis-a-vis system crashes, etc.  It refers to the packages and versions
in the repositories for the distribution.  It is stable in that
the packages currently part of the release 9 distribution are/will be
the packages available at the versions currently in the repositories. It
is frozen in the sense that no new packages/version upgrades will be
admitted to the Stretch distribution. Patches may still be made to fix
security issues and serious bugs.  During this time between freezing the
distribution and its actual release as the 'stable' distribution it is
thoroughly tested to make sure everything works and the various packages
talk to each other they way they should.  In effect, Stretch is under
beta testing.  Usually, by the time Stretch reaches the 'frozen' stage,
most of the major issues have been worked out, and it is reasonably
ready for production.  However, they may still be a few problems to be
worked out...it is a beta after all.

I also use a couple
> programs from outside ppas (*gulp!* :-O) and am taking into
> consideration conflicts with those as well. They do work great with the
> current stable.

I use out of distribution packages on occasion as well.  However, there
is no guarantee that such packages will work or continue to work under
the new distribution, even after it is released as Debian Stable.
Having said that, if they worked under Debian 8, they may well work
under Debian 9.  Keep in mind, however, the libraries available with
Debian 9 will in many cases be new and updated versions, and may not be
the same as the ones used by the out of distribution packages. So there
may be some compatibility issues. (Issues I did have with one of the
out-of-distribution packages I use.)

Give it a try.  If it works for you great.  If you have problems,
especially with packages/libraries within the distribution, report them
so that they can be addressed and fixed.  That kind of input is
important in getting the Stretch distribution through the process to the
Stable distribution.

-- 
73's,
WB5VQX -- The Very Quick X-ray

Re: How stable is the frozen stretch?

[Fungi4All]

From: rave...@sitesplace.net

> I am thinking about trying out Stretch (Debian 9) in either a spare
> laptop or a virtual machine. If I like it I might just point my sources
> list to that repo on both laptops if it's stable enough.

For my use and the packages I need both stretch and sid have been rock stable, 
in most cases you can hardly tell the difference from Jessie.

> My question is, once it's "frozen", how stable is it or is it still
> pretty much not suitable for production yet? I also use a couple
> programs from outside ppas (*gulp!* :-O) and am taking into
> consideration conflicts with those as well. They do work great with the
> current stable.

First check the hardware differences that are supported, then take a look at 
the bug lists for testing and unstable to see if you are using any buggy 
packages that do not apply on stable. If you don't see anything that relates to 
your use you will be happy.

Don't let the terms testing/unstable scare you much. Remember many 
distributions are based on those two and not stable.

It all depends on your specific use.

How stable is the frozen stretch?

[RavenLX]

I am thinking about trying out Stretch (Debian 9) in either a spare 
laptop or a virtual machine. If I like it I might just point my sources 
list to that repo on both laptops if it's stable enough.


My question is, once it's "frozen", how stable is it or is it still 
pretty much not suitable for production yet? I also use a couple 
programs from outside ppas (*gulp!* :-O) and am taking into 
consideration conflicts with those as well. They do work great with the 
current stable.