Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 10 August 2018 05:54:22 Anders Andersson wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Thursday 09 August 2018 12:26:24 Martin wrote:
> >> Am 09.08.2018 um 18:15 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> >> > On Thursday 09 August 2018 11:16:27 Martin wrote:
> >> >> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
> >> >
> >> > Then I suggest you reread man ntp.conf, and /etc/ntp.conf, and
> >> > edit it as root until you do understand it. Note that changes to
> >> > take effect, need a root session of "service ntp restart".
> >>
> >> Wrong topic, may be?
> >> I used to use ntpd. Then tried systemd-timesyncd to act a a server.
> >> Which it will not do. Hence, I run ntpd.
> >
> > Wrong topic? Note that nowhere in that portion of my msg you
> > snipped, was systemd.timesyncd mentioned. It may have been in some
> > other part of that message that I didn't author, and which you also
> > snipped.
> > You might want to let some of the stuffing out of that shirt. I was
> > trying to be helpfull because the docs do suck a bit.  And helpfull
> > people are harder and harder to find because of folks with an
> > attitude
>
> You're the one with the attitude here. Martin claimed that the
> documentation for systemd-timesyncd sucked, and that it can not serve
> time to a local network. You then go on to lecture him about reading
> the documentation for NTP, "until you understand it", something he
> obviously already does since he is already using it. After he
> clarified the context, Instead of apologizing you reply with an attack
> about his stuffed shirt.

Maybe stuffed shirt was over-reaction, but from what was written, I got 
the impression that Martin did not understand ntp all that well. If he 
does in fact understand its theory, then my apologies.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Anders Andersson]

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Thursday 09 August 2018 12:26:24 Martin wrote:
>> Am 09.08.2018 um 18:15 schrieb Gene Heskett:
>> > On Thursday 09 August 2018 11:16:27 Martin wrote:
>> >> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
>> >
>> > Then I suggest you reread man ntp.conf, and /etc/ntp.conf, and edit
>> > it as root until you do understand it. Note that changes to take
>> > effect, need a root session of "service ntp restart".
>>
>> Wrong topic, may be?
>> I used to use ntpd. Then tried systemd-timesyncd to act a a server.
>> Which it will not do. Hence, I run ntpd.
>
> Wrong topic? Note that nowhere in that portion of my msg you snipped, was
> systemd.timesyncd mentioned. It may have been in some other part of that
> message that I didn't author, and which you also snipped.
> You might want to let some of the stuffing out of that shirt. I was
> trying to be helpfull because the docs do suck a bit.  And helpfull
> people are harder and harder to find because of folks with an attitude

You're the one with the attitude here. Martin claimed that the
documentation for systemd-timesyncd sucked, and that it can not serve
time to a local network. You then go on to lecture him about reading
the documentation for NTP, "until you understand it", something he
obviously already does since he is already using it. After he
clarified the context, Instead of apologizing you reply with an attack
about his stuffed shirt.

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 09 August 2018 12:26:24 Martin wrote:

> Am 09.08.2018 um 18:15 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> > On Thursday 09 August 2018 11:16:27 Martin wrote:
> >> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
> >>> Martin (2018-08-09):
>  First of: The documentation sucks!
> >>>
> >>> Care to elaborate?
> >>>
>  Do you know if this software can be tricked in a way,
> >>>
> >>> I suggest you try to use software instead of tricking it. It works
> >>> better that way.
> >>
> >> Granted.
> >>
>  that it does serve ntp in my local network?
> >>>
> >>> Do you have any evidence that it does?
> >>
> >> I would like to.
> >> As I tried, it did not.
> >
> > Then I suggest you reread man ntp.conf, and /etc/ntp.conf, and edit
> > it as root until you do understand it. Note that changes to take
> > effect, need a root session of "service ntp restart".
>
> [...]
>
> Wrong topic, may be?
> I used to use ntpd. Then tried systemd-timesyncd to act a a server.
> Which it will not do. Hence, I run ntpd.

Wrong topic? Note that nowhere in that portion of my msg you snipped, was 
systemd.timesyncd mentioned. It may have been in some other part of that 
message that I didn't author, and which you also snipped.
You might want to let some of the stuffing out of that shirt. I was 
trying to be helpfull because the docs do suck a bit.  And helpfull 
people are harder and harder to find because of folks with an attitude 
that you seem to want to be.


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Martin]

Am 09.08.2018 um 18:15 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> On Thursday 09 August 2018 11:16:27 Martin wrote:
> 
>> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
>>> Martin (2018-08-09):
 First of: The documentation sucks!
>>>
>>> Care to elaborate?
>>>
 Do you know if this software can be tricked in a way,
>>>
>>> I suggest you try to use software instead of tricking it. It works
>>> better that way.
>>
>> Granted.
>>
 that it does serve ntp in my local network?
>>>
>>> Do you have any evidence that it does?
>>
>> I would like to.
>> As I tried, it did not.
>>
> Then I suggest you reread man ntp.conf, and /etc/ntp.conf, and edit it  
> as root until you do understand it. Note that changes to take effect, 
> need a root session of "service ntp restart".
[...]

Wrong topic, may be?
I used to use ntpd. Then tried systemd-timesyncd to act a a server. Which it 
will not do. Hence, I run ntpd.

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 09 August 2018 11:16:27 Martin wrote:

> Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
> > Martin (2018-08-09):
> >> First of: The documentation sucks!
> >
> > Care to elaborate?
> >
> >> Do you know if this software can be tricked in a way,
> >
> > I suggest you try to use software instead of tricking it. It works
> > better that way.
>
> Granted.
>
> >> that it does serve ntp in my local network?
> >
> > Do you have any evidence that it does?
>
> I would like to.
> As I tried, it did not.
>
Then I suggest you reread man ntp.conf, and /etc/ntp.conf, and edit it  
as root until you do understand it. Note that changes to take effect, 
need a root session of "service ntp restart".

As I said before, my router can be a level 16 source, either by acting as 
a server, or as a broadcast source. This machine slaves to the router, 
both as a server for init purposes, and as a running listener to the 
routers broadcasts.

So the ntpq -p output here is:
gene@coyote:~$ ntpq -p
 remote   refidst t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
 router.coyote.d .INIT.16 u-   6400.0000.000   0.000
 192.168.71.255  .BCST.16 u-   6400.0000.000   0.000

All the other machines here then use this machine as the server in plae 
of any 'pool' listings (#commented out) and their ntpq -p output is:
gene@rock64:~$ ntpq -p
 remote  refid st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
*coyote.coyote.d 216.6.2.70 3 u   93   64  1760.657   -1.093   0.695

That rock64 is an arm64 machine that does not have a clock, fake_hw, but 
the /etc/ntp.conf is identical to the other 6 machines.  And I am 
banging on the level 2 servers at my isp or even further away, only once 
for all the machines here.

Here its from a raspberry pi 3b:
pi@picnc:~ $ ntpq -p
 remote  refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
*coyote.coyote.d 216.6.2.70  3 u  121  128  3770.2250.374   0.085

I could go on, but its boring. Comment the pool entries in /etc/ntp.conf,  
put your server in their place, and uncomment the last 2 lines to enable 
the secondary machines to listen to the broadcasts on your subnet of 
xx.yy.zz.255

That way they listen to .255 to stay current, and use the server entry 
when they boot. Piece of cake.

> > Regards,



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Martin]

> I thought I saw a "not" here, hence the strange wording of my answer.

Cheers ;-)

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Nicolas George]

Martin (2018-08-09):
> >> that it does serve ntp in my local network?
 ^

I thought I saw a "not" here, hence the strange wording of my answer.
Sorry.

> I would like to.
> As I tried, it did not.

timesyncd is not meant for that. It is a client, not a server. You were
right to use a complete implementation of NTP.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Martin]

Am 09.08.2018 um 17:12 schrieb Nicolas George:
> Martin (2018-08-09):
>> First of: The documentation sucks!
> 
> Care to elaborate?
> 
>> Do you know if this software can be tricked in a way,
> 
> I suggest you try to use software instead of tricking it. It works
> better that way.

Granted.

>> that it does serve ntp in my local network?
> 
> Do you have any evidence that it does?

I would like to.
As I tried, it did not.

> Regards,
> 

Re: OT: What time is it, really?

[Nicolas George]

Martin (2018-08-09):
> First of: The documentation sucks!

Care to elaborate?

> Do you know if this software can be tricked in a way,

I suggest you try to use software instead of tricking it. It works
better that way.

> that it does serve ntp in my local network?

Do you have any evidence that it does?

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Description: Digital signature

OT: What time is it, really?

[Martin]

> Nowadays, unless you have religions objections, you should just enable
> systemd-timesyncd, it is the most lightweight and transparent way of
> enabling network time synchronization with nowadays Debian.

First of: The documentation sucks!
Do you know if this software can be tricked in a way, that it does serve ntp in 
my local network? I ran into that some weeks ago an it did not want to. So I'm 
back on ntpd.

Martin