Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2017-04-01, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> On Saturday 01 April 2017 18:11:12 Liam O'Toole wrote:
>> On 2017-03-31, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>>
>> (...)
>>
>> > We are part of the same sovereign state, but 4 nations.
>>
>> When you consider some of the Irish, yes. Most Irish people live in a
>> different sovereign state.
>
> Agreed!!!  But the United Kingdom has 4 nations in it.  It is one Sovereign 
> State (for a little while longer anyway) but 4 nations.  The fact that one of 
> those nations has temporarily been split in two by history is a separate 
> issue. You surely wouldn't dispute that it is a discrete nation?
>
> Lisi

No, not at all. (In fact, I see the UK as consisting of three nations
plus a bit of someone else's nation.) I wanted to dispel the frequently
encountered notion that the UK extends to all of Britain and Ireland.
Your original statement above, unqualified, could be seen to perpetuate
that misconception.

-- 

Liam

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 01 April 2017 18:11:12 Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2017-03-31, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> > We are part of the same sovereign state, but 4 nations.
>
> When you consider some of the Irish, yes. Most Irish people live in a
> different sovereign state.

Agreed!!!  But the United Kingdom has 4 nations in it.  It is one Sovereign 
State (for a little while longer anyway) but 4 nations.  The fact that one of 
those nations has temporarily been split in two by history is a separate 
issue. You surely wouldn't dispute that it is a discrete nation?

Lisi

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2017-03-31, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

(...)

> We are part of the same sovereign state, but 4 nations.

When you consider some of the Irish, yes. Most Irish people live in a
different sovereign state.

-- 

Liam

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Curt]

On 2017-03-31, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>
> For whatever it's worth, here in Ohio, "next Thursday" would mean the
> Thursday that occurs in the next calendar week.  "This Thursday" means
> the Thursday that occurs (or occurred) in the current calendar week,
> though you'd need to use the past tense when saying it today, or people
> would get very confused.

Someone once taught me a song about Ohio. It went something like this:

Oh why oh why oh why oh,
Did I ever leave Ohio.

Never forgot that song.

> If you want to be clear, just include the numeric date.  Your meeting
> would be "Thursday, April 6th".

2018. 

Trouble with you people is you don't get out on some of the other days
of the week.

> English is hilarious.
>
>


-- 
"It might be a vision--of a shell, of a wheelbarrow, of a fairy kingdom on the
far side of the hedge; or it might be the glory of speed; no one knew." --Mrs.
Ramsay, speculating on why her little daughter might be dashing about, in "To
the Lighthouse," by Virginia Woolf.

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 31 March 2017 15:15:46 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2017 09:34:26 AM Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Friday 31 March 2017 14:04:03 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > To specify the Thursday before the last Thursday, use something like:
> > > "the Thursday before last Thursday".
> > >
> > > To specify the Thursday after the coming Thursday, use something like:
> > > "the Thursday after next Thursday".
> >
> > Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that way!!!
> > Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree. 
> > When I say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says
> > next Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday. 
> > We are both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.
>
> And you're still married? ;-)
>
> > And let us clear up another misunderstanding while we are at it.  The
> > other side of the pond you appear to be under a delusion that there is
> > such a thing as British anything, including English.  Try telling that to
> > the Welsh, the Irish and the Scots!
>
> Similar to the situation on this side of the pond, for example north and
> south, or New England, California, Pennsylvania Dutch ("throw your father
> down the stairs his hat" ;-),  and other parts of the US (or Canada).

Not quite.  California and New England are, so far, part of the same nation.  
We are part of the same sovereign state, but 4 nations.

Lisi

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Eike Lantzsch]

On Friday, 31 March 2017 10:18:24 -04 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2017 09:45:59 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 02:34:26PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that
> > > way!!!
> > > Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree.
> > > When I say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says
> > > next Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday.
> > > We are both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.
> > 
> > For whatever it's worth, here in Ohio, "next Thursday" would mean the
> > Thursday that occurs in the next calendar week.  "This Thursday" means
> > the Thursday that occurs (or occurred) in the current calendar week,
> > though you'd need to use the past tense when saying it today, or people
> > would get very confused.
> 
> Interesting!  (I guess I've run into that meaning without really realizing
> it...)
> 
> > If you want to be clear, just include the numeric date.  Your meeting
> > would be "Thursday, April 6th".
> > 
> > English is hilarious.
> 
> +10

Ambiguity often is good and can be used to postpone fruitless discussions:
Coworker: "When will this be ready?"
Me: "On Thursday."
on closest Thursday ->
Coworker: "Hey, is XX ready?"
Me: "No."
Coworker: "You said it will be ready on Thursday."
Me: "Did I indicate which Thursday?"
Coworker: "!!" now starting fruitless discussion

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[rhkramer]

On Friday, March 31, 2017 09:45:59 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 02:34:26PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that way!!!
> > Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree. 
> > When I say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says
> > next Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday. 
> > We are both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.
> 
> For whatever it's worth, here in Ohio, "next Thursday" would mean the
> Thursday that occurs in the next calendar week.  "This Thursday" means
> the Thursday that occurs (or occurred) in the current calendar week,
> though you'd need to use the past tense when saying it today, or people
> would get very confused.

Interesting!  (I guess I've run into that meaning without really realizing 
it...)

> If you want to be clear, just include the numeric date.  Your meeting
> would be "Thursday, April 6th".
> 
> English is hilarious.

+10

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[rhkramer]

On Friday, March 31, 2017 09:34:26 AM Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 31 March 2017 14:04:03 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > To specify the Thursday before the last Thursday, use something like:
> > "the Thursday before last Thursday".
> > 
> > To specify the Thursday after the coming Thursday, use something like:
> > "the Thursday after next Thursday".
> 
> Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that way!!!
> Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree.  When
> I say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says next
> Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday.  We are
> both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.

And you're still married? ;-)

> 
> And let us clear up another misunderstanding while we are at it.  The other
> side of the pond you appear to be under a delusion that there is such a
> thing as British anything, including English.  Try telling that to the
> Welsh, the Irish and the Scots!

Similar to the situation on this side of the pond, for example north and 
south, or New England, California, Pennsylvania Dutch ("throw your father down 
the stairs his hat" ;-),  and other parts of the US (or Canada).

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 02:34:26PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that way!!!  
> Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree.  When I 
> say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says next 
> Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday.  We are 
> both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.

For whatever it's worth, here in Ohio, "next Thursday" would mean the
Thursday that occurs in the next calendar week.  "This Thursday" means
the Thursday that occurs (or occurred) in the current calendar week,
though you'd need to use the past tense when saying it today, or people
would get very confused.

If you want to be clear, just include the numeric date.  Your meeting
would be "Thursday, April 6th".

English is hilarious.

Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 31 March 2017 14:04:03 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> To specify the Thursday before the last Thursday, use something like: "the
> Thursday before last Thursday".
>
> To specify the Thursday after the coming Thursday, use something like: "the
> Thursday after next Thursday".

Great - all fine in theory.  But you try announcing a meeting that way!!!  
Here in England we debate it, meaning that I and my husband disagree.  When I 
say "next Thursday", I mean the Thursday next week.  When he says next 
Thursday he means the next Thursday to arrive, i.e. this Thursday.  We are 
both English, but I Cockney-born and he Yorkshire.

And let us clear up another misunderstanding while we are at it.  The other 
side of the pond you appear to be under a delusion that there is such a thing 
as British anything, including English.  Try telling that to the Welsh, the 
Irish and the Scots! 

Lisi

OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt)

[rhkramer]

On Friday, March 31, 2017 06:30:25 AM Terence wrote:
> There is no ambiguity if (as I have always understood) "Thursday" means
> "this (or the coming) Thursday" and "next Thursday" or "Thursday next"
> means "a week on Thursday".
> 
> And having lived in Yorkshire for two very happy years, I would agree that
> York is above London in so many ways...

To me, all that has been discussed is (potentially) confusing and ambiguous.

To me, I prefer the following--ohh, most of the examples assume that the 
current day is not Thursday (but maybe that makes no difference):

Thursday can refer either to the coming Thursday or the previous Thursday 
based on the context, for example:

On Thursday, we played baseball.  (obvious (to me) that was the (just) 
previous Thursday)

The paper is due on Thursday.  (obvious (to me) that is the (just) coming 
Thursday)

Last Thursday, we played baseball.  (clear to me, but the "last" is redundant 
and may be ambiguous to some--might some mean the Thursday before the most 
recent??)

The paper is due next Thursday.   (clear to me, but the "next" is redundant 
and is ambiguous to some--some seem to mean the Thursday after the coming / 
really next Thursday)

The paper is due Thursday next.  (clear to me, but the "next" is redundant and 
is ambiguous to some--some seem to mean the Thursday after the coming / really 
next Thursday--it might be a Briticism (to coin or mangle a word))

To specify the Thursday before the last Thursday, use something like: "the 
Thursday before last Thursday".

To specify the Thursday after the coming Thursday, use something like: "the 
Thursday after next Thursday".

Use similar constructs for other days, weeks, months, years, millennia, 
minutes, hours, etc., or better, specify a date, year, time, or similar.

I'm not aware of whether the grammar lords have established a clear preferred 
usage pattern--if they have, I'm sure it differs on the two sides of the 
Atlantic.

(Maybe this is my subconcious bid to become a grammar lord??  Uuh, I think 
I'll shut up now, I'd hate to be tagged with that label.)

Randy Kramer