Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load
Celejar wrote: > https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/mu2qcm/indefinitely_increasing_blocked_elements/ > > I'm not sure that I would interpret this sort of thing as the website > putting up an aggressive fight or deliberately trying to burn out > anyone's computer, but it is an annoyance that one sometimes encounters. > > Celejar Thank you. I've been looking at the machine yesterday from remote and I could not understand why on specific site the CPU usage goes that much up. It could be that Alexander V. Makartsev is right about TCase and I came to the conclusion that we'll try to replace the fan with a better one if possible to find or just replace the PC. Unfortunately I'll be not physically around the PC before July. I wonder if green activists keep an eye on these abuse of the web sites and someone has already calculated hoe much power is get lost because of this.
Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load
On Sat, 8 May 2021 17:18:35 -0400 Dan Ritter wrote: > Bret Busby wrote: > > > > I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to > > server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing involved > > with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are competently and > > benignly written, and that client side processing, is malignant), and I > > suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the web site(s) > > responsible for the problem. > > There are some reasonable cases for client-side computing. It's > certainly badly overused. > > > have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some > > particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against ad > > blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers of > > users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites trying > > to steal the users' identities and personal information. > > I've never encountered this -- please let me know some sample > URLs whenever you have time. https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/mu2qcm/indefinitely_increasing_blocked_elements/ I'm not sure that I would interpret this sort of thing as the website putting up an aggressive fight or deliberately trying to burn out anyone's computer, but it is an annoyance that one sometimes encounters. Celejar
Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load
Bret Busby wrote: > I think this goes to an issue, over which, I tend to get into heated > arguments, including with my wife, who is a software developer, who > develops web sites that I believe to be responsible. > > In the original post, from memory, was stated that it happened with some > web sites, and, not with others, and, this involves an issue of system > load, due to particular web sites. > Yes but it does not seem to be relevant, because I installed same firefox on both PCs and open same number of windows with same content. On the C700 no CPU load and on the Q520 the described behavior just few seconds after opening the first link. So it must be something with the Q520 specifically. I now will install also the same kernel on both machines to see if it makes a difference. > I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to > server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing > involved with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are > competently and benignly written, and that client side processing, is > malignant), and I suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code > of the web site(s) responsible for the problem. > > I sometimes encounter web sites that are so badly and heavily client > side weighted, that it can take five to ten minutes, to get a response > from a key press, in a form, and, other web sites whizz through stuff, > on the same computer, in the same web browser. > > So, I tend to have more than one web browser running at the same time, > with firefox script enabled, and, the other(s) script disabled.. On my > other system, I have firefox running, script enabled, and, Seamonkey > running, script disabled. > > Another issue, depending upon the nature of the web site(s) with which > you have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some > particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against > ad blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers > of users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites > trying to steal the users' identities and personal information. > Yes, this is true - I have to inspect this. On the C700 there is ad-blocker. on the Q520 I am not sure. > So, if you can find a trusted web site, I suggest temporarily disabling > all plugins, and, monitoring the effect, if any, on your system load - I > would not do this, with the web site(s) responsible for this problem - I > think the system load problem, could be your computer defending itself > against an attack. > > I also wonder whether you notice any unexpected massive data traffic. > no > I have, from time to time, noticed unexpected sustained downloads, using > up tens of gigabytes of my quota. > > Unfortunately, insofar as I am aware, Linux does not have any packages > that indicate what websites are responsible for Internet traffic; if I > notice sustained downloading of over half a megabyte per second, all > that I can do, is turn off the networking, for a couple of hours, and, > check to see whether it resumes the unsolicited traffic. This implies installing a device between the modem and the PC, but at the end I may also do this. It will just take time thank you for your long post and opinion
Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load
deloptes [2021-05-08 21:33:47] wrote: > Dan Ritter wrote: >> It is also the case that fans are cheap. Replacing one for >> $10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years. > But the question is why it runs > 100% - the fan is not that important in > the case. It could be replaced with not so loud one, but the CPU will still > run at 100+ % when firefox is running. Actually, it could be related: on some of my laptops, when the fan wasn't working well, I often saw both 100% CPU and a loud fan at the same time, and both were due to the CPU's temperature (the system reacts to too-high a temperature by increasing the fan speed, of course, but also reducing significantly the CPU's frequency which in turn can cause it to hit 100% usage even if there isn't a terribly high load). Stefan
Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load
Bret Busby wrote: > > I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to > server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing involved > with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are competently and > benignly written, and that client side processing, is malignant), and I > suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the web site(s) > responsible for the problem. There are some reasonable cases for client-side computing. It's certainly badly overused. > have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some > particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against ad > blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers of > users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites trying > to steal the users' identities and personal information. I've never encountered this -- please let me know some sample URLs whenever you have time. > Unfortunately, insofar as I am aware, Linux does not have any packages that > indicate what websites are responsible for Internet traffic; if I notice > sustained downloading of over half a megabyte per second, all that I can do, > is turn off the networking, for a couple of hours, and, check to see whether > it resumes the unsolicited traffic. Doing that would, in general, require an agent inside the browser. Turns out there is an agent inside the browser that can do this: the standard web developer tools in Firefox (right click, Inspect, then click on the new Network tab). More generally, you can track live network activity per interface and per IP (with DNS resolution, if possible) with the tool iftop. Debian packages it. Much more generally, you can graph long term network usage with any number of tools; I like smokeping and librenms among others. -dsr-
Client-side vs. server-side Website processing (was Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load)
On 2021-05-08 at 16:47, Bret Busby wrote: > I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed > to server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all > processing involved with web sites, should be server side, if the web > sites are competently and benignly written, and that client side > processing, is malignant), One possible (part of a) counterargument: data privacy. Although I no longer recall specific examples, I've run across some Websites in the past which were - or for which it was being argued that they should be - designed to process as much data as possible on the client side, specifically so as to minimize the data transmitted to the server, and thus the data which could potentially be leaked to a third party (or even mined for value by the second party, i.e. those who control the server involved). That also brings up the case of minimizing the data transferred in order to minimize pay-per-byte transfer costs (as I understand to still be the norm in some jurisdictions) or problems with data caps (as are becoming increasingly common in other jurisdictions), but that's less likely to be relevant for most Websites. > and I suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the > web site(s) responsible for the problem. > > I sometimes encounter web sites that are so badly and heavily client > side weighted, that it can take five to ten minutes, to get a > response from a key press, in a form, and, other web sites whizz > through stuff, on the same computer, in the same web browser. That, on the other hand, is *clearly* excessive. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load
On 9/5/21 3:33 am, deloptes wrote: Dan Ritter wrote: It is also the case that fans are cheap. Replacing one for $10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years. But the question is why it runs > 100% - the fan is not that important in the case. It could be replaced with not so loud one, but the CPU will still run at 100+ % when firefox is running. I changed the title to make it more explanatory I think this goes to an issue, over which, I tend to get into heated arguments, including with my wife, who is a software developer, who develops web sites that I believe to be responsible. In the original post, from memory, was stated that it happened with some web sites, and, not with others, and, this involves an issue of system load, due to particular web sites. I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing involved with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are competently and benignly written, and that client side processing, is malignant), and I suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the web site(s) responsible for the problem. I sometimes encounter web sites that are so badly and heavily client side weighted, that it can take five to ten minutes, to get a response from a key press, in a form, and, other web sites whizz through stuff, on the same computer, in the same web browser. So, I tend to have more than one web browser running at the same time, with firefox script enabled, and, the other(s) script disabled.. On my other system, I have firefox running, script enabled, and, Seamonkey running, script disabled. Another issue, depending upon the nature of the web site(s) with which you have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against ad blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers of users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites trying to steal the users' identities and personal information. So, if you can find a trusted web site, I suggest temporarily disabling all plugins, and, monitoring the effect, if any, on your system load - I would not do this, with the web site(s) responsible for this problem - I think the system load problem, could be your computer defending itself against an attack. I also wonder whether you notice any unexpected massive data traffic. I have, from time to time, noticed unexpected sustained downloads, using up tens of gigabytes of my quota. Unfortunately, insofar as I am aware, Linux does not have any packages that indicate what websites are responsible for Internet traffic; if I notice sustained downloading of over half a megabyte per second, all that I can do, is turn off the networking, for a couple of hours, and, check to see whether it resumes the unsolicited traffic. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Re: PC fan getting very loud because of CPU load
Dan Ritter wrote: > It is also the case that fans are cheap. Replacing one for > $10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years. > But the question is why it runs > 100% - the fan is not that important in the case. It could be replaced with not so loud one, but the CPU will still run at 100+ % when firefox is running. I changed the title to make it more explanatory
