Re: What to buy for Buster?
On 5/24/19 1:15 AM, Erik Josefsson wrote: On 5/24/19 5:12 AM, David Christensen wrote: If you get a major brand computer with 64-bit Intel Core technology (ca. 2006) or newer, Debian should run on it. Great! Thanks! The HP Compaq 8200 Elite SFF that I'm about to grab has a Intel Core i5-2400S processor. The Intel i5-2400S processor supports both 32-bit and 64-bit software: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_x86 https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/52208/intel-core-i5-2400s-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-30-ghz.html Advanced Technologies Intel® 64 ‡ Yes I browsed the Debian installer pages and as far as I understand I should use "other images (netboot, USB stick, etc.)" for the installation, but to me it is not obvious if I should use the image for the amd64 or the i386 architecture: https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ My typcal problem. I should know basic stuff like that. Is the "Debian Designation" for the Intel Core i5-2400S processor "Intel x86-based" or "AMD 64 & Intel 64"? (I am looking at the table "2.1.1. Supported Architectures" in the Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide on the pages of d-i.debian.org/manual/) Best regards. //Erik Either Debian "i386" (32-bit) or Debian "amd64" (64-bit) will work on the above computer. I usually run Debian i386 on processors that are 32-bit only (e.g. socket 478 Pentium 4 and earlier) and Debian amd64 on processors that support 64-bit. I would suggest that you use amd64: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-9.9.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso David
Re: What to buy for Buster?
Erik Josefsson wrote: > On 5/24/19 5:12 AM, David Christensen wrote: > > > > If you get a major brand computer with 64-bit Intel Core technology (ca. > > 2006) or newer, Debian should run on it. > > Great! Thanks! > > The HP Compaq 8200 Elite SFF that I'm about to grab has a Intel Core > i5-2400S processor. I have the next generation model of that sitting on my desk at work. It's perfectly reasonable. > I browsed the Debian installer pages and as far as I understand I should use > "other images (netboot, USB stick, etc.)" for the installation, but to me it > is not obvious if I should use the image for the amd64 or the i386 > architecture: AMD64 is the name for the modern Intel-and-AMD 64-bit instruction set; basically all non-antique desktops and laptops use it. (History: Intel decided that 64-bit instruction sets should be a new architecture, and built a system called Itanium. It was expensive and slow. Meanwhile, AMD built a reasonable extension to the existing Intel 32-bit architecture, and Intel eventually adopted it. For a while, the Itanium architecture was available as IA64, which served mostly to confuse people who had bought Intel chips and wanted 64-bitness. > My typcal problem. I should know basic stuff like that. No, you should know how to ask questions and do research. Then you get to know stuff. That's how I got to know stuff, anyway. -dsr-
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 08:15:12AM +, Erik Josefsson wrote: > The HP Compaq 8200 Elite SFF that I'm about to grab has a Intel Core > i5-2400S processor. > > I browsed the Debian installer pages and as far as I understand I should use > "other images (netboot, USB stick, etc.)" for the installation, but to me it > is not obvious if I should use the image for the amd64 or the i386 > architecture: You want amd64. That's the 64-bit version, also promoted as "x86_64" by Intel's marketing forces trying to detract from the fact that AMD beat them to the punch.
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On 5/24/19 5:12 AM, David Christensen wrote: If you get a major brand computer with 64-bit Intel Core technology (ca. 2006) or newer, Debian should run on it. Great! Thanks! The HP Compaq 8200 Elite SFF that I'm about to grab has a Intel Core i5-2400S processor. I browsed the Debian installer pages and as far as I understand I should use "other images (netboot, USB stick, etc.)" for the installation, but to me it is not obvious if I should use the image for the amd64 or the i386 architecture: https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ My typcal problem. I should know basic stuff like that. Is the "Debian Designation" for the Intel Core i5-2400S processor "Intel x86-based" or "AMD 64 & Intel 64"? (I am looking at the table "2.1.1. Supported Architectures" in the Debian GNU/Linux Installation Guide on the pages of d-i.debian.org/manual/) Best regards. //Erik
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On 5/23/19 8:17 AM, Erik Josefsson wrote: Thanks all for feedback, help and answers to many of my questions, but I feel my available time and my skills put together won't meet the threshold for being able to contribute to Debian in any meaningful way for another year or two. I'll have to go back to piggybacking, as I have done for decades. As such a piggyback, I'd anyway like to ask if anyone would know a reasonably powerful second hand stationary office computer that can run a Debian Buster Pure Blend from a net install? No need for wireless, I will just connect with ethernet cable. I don't know more than that I should avoid Nvidia. In theory, since it is a Pure Blend, I would then never have to bother you again :-) I mean, I would know for certain that there is nothing wrong with the computer, but rather with the computeur. I thought that maybe I would master the Teres-I and its box.redpill.dk promise, but the combo of wireless- and DNS-issues is too steep. Next life maybe. Best regards. //Erik If you get a major brand computer with 64-bit Intel Core technology (ca. 2006) or newer, Debian should run on it. If reliability is important to you, run Debian Stretch. If you want a desktop, use Xfce. These have the best support. For laptops, I prefer Dell -- both for the Service Tag database and for the detailed service manuals. The latter are especially important when you want to work on the hardware. For desktops and servers, I have traditionally built mine from general-purpose parts (e.g. ATX cases, power supplies, and motherboards). The up-side is that I can mix, match, and upgrade parts as I please. The down-side is higher initial cost compared to mass-produced computers with identical processor, memory, and HDD specifications (but lesser expansion specifications). That said, my newest server is a used Dell PowerEdge T30/ Xeon E3-1225v5 -- two internal 3.5" drive bays is enough, and the price much better than building from parts. David
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On 5/23/19, Cindy Sue Causey wrote: > > Mine's handsome. Dell XPS 420. Runs NICE on Debian... when it's > running. It's still in need of a new power supply. Intentions are to > attempt to find one again tonight. > > I can't swear 100%, but I THINK it did NOT do Nvidia issues. I > remember lsmod'ing while following along with a Debian-User thread one > day. > > Well, I didn't have to fight anything, anyway, if it does do Nvidia. > That might be k/t its attached monitor, too, somehow. It came with a > stock graphics card (whatever that was that has its own fan) and is > attached to something resembling a "Dell 1908FPT" monitor. > > < snip-snip-snip for brevity > > > Dell Inspiron laptop/tablet duo appears to work fine with a Linux > operating system (that came along with). Just haven't taken time yet > to install Debian, but I anticipate no problems when that day finally > comes... PPS Afterthought... My Dell's have been CHAMPS through some phenomenal external temperature highs and lows for almost 20 years now (abject #poverty, yada-yada). For that reason first and foremost, they're my initial search target whenever it comes time to start looking around for something more modern. The final decision each time is eventually boiled down to current availability and rock bottom price... :) Cindy :) -- Cindy-Sue Causey Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with birdseed *
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On 5/23/19, Joe wrote: > > Always difficult to advise, so many computers, so few recent ones > listed as Linux-compatible. All Developers can do is wait for Users to write in with thumbs up or down after purchasing new hardware. Otherwise, it's not many folks who can venture into all that exists to have it available for testing at one or two locations. :) > All I can offer is that I've never had > problems with HP business desktops, or Acer portables. But then, I > don't play games (beyond solitaire) so I'm not looking for blazing fast > graphics. MUCH older HP laptop here. Looks like HP Pavilion ze5300. It's the one running Puppy Linux as the hsfmodem dialup modem mothership. And that would be HP's VERY OLD internal modem that is STILL operating FINE, by the way. > Other people swear by Dell, but I've never used one and I've > heard a few stories about them. Mine's handsome. Dell XPS 420. Runs NICE on Debian... when it's running. It's still in need of a new power supply. Intentions are to attempt to find one again tonight. I can't swear 100%, but I THINK it did NOT do Nvidia issues. I remember lsmod'ing while following along with a Debian-User thread one day. Well, I didn't have to fight anything, anyway, if it does do Nvidia. That might be k/t its attached monitor, too, somehow. It came with a stock graphics card (whatever that was that has its own fan) and is attached to something resembling a "Dell 1908FPT" monitor. It's secondhand. Large but not much room left inside for expansion. Basically two hard drives unless you push your luck turning them around sideways or something where they don't belong. Safe (hardware protecting) expansion has to happen outside the box. Everything worked out of the box with a personalized debootstrapped copy of Debian Stretch. That was a copy that was possibly pulled together on this little ASUS 1015px'y netbook.. 'y... then rsync'ed over now that I think on it. No WIFI on the Dell I bought. Watch what you're buying there if you go that route. I can't remember the tech specs of the setback for this laptop, but it's basically a no-go show-stopper these days. Didn't have any luck with the HP's WIFI, either. Most likely would turn out to be for reasons resembling the ASUS if I stubbornly pursued forcing the issue. Ethernet cable to the rescue there.. For wifi, you want what can handle the highest security/encryption, however you go there. Those external USB "dongles" do come fairly cheap if everything else about a computer purchase fits except that... minor little detail that's a pretty hardcore, near almost absolute necessity these days. Dell Inspiron laptop/tablet duo appears to work fine with a Linux operating system (that came along with). Just haven't taken time yet to install Debian, but I anticipate no problems when that day finally comes... One last afterthought.. Toshiba Satellite P25, also OLDER, worked very nicely with Debian. It's a LARGE, HEAVY, SOLID clunker. Purely based on that experience, I've come really close to purchasing newer versions of those a few times. One problem with buying any, either new or old, is to make sure it has ALL the types of AND the quantity of [ports] you think you'll be using. The relatively new Dell "transformer" lacks "basic" ethernet. That's why I'm sitting on pins and needles waiting for those CHEAP wifi dongles to arrive... any second. The alternative is to question: Can you buy adapters that will step up to the plate, instead? For the laptop/tablet combo model, you CAN buy a CHEAP ethernet to USB adapter.. or go wifi... or... ?? :) PS The whole needing USB wifi for some things to work is a shudder-worthy moment that echoes having to do the exact same thing to get dialup access. Wifi's nowhere near as expensive for something that should actually work**, thank goodness! Cindy :) ** Hardware versus software based internal design as a product's working core, yada-yada... -- Cindy-Sue Causey Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with birdseed *
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On Thu, 2019-05-23 at 19:24 +, Erik Josefsson wrote: > On 5/23/19 4:59 PM, Joe wrote: > > On Thu, 23 May 2019 15:17:15 + > > Erik Josefsson wrote: > > > > > Thanks all for feedback, help and answers to many of my > > > questions, > > > but I feel my available time and my skills put together won't > > > meet > > > the threshold for being able to contribute to Debian in any > > > meaningful way for another year or two. > > > > > > I'll have to go back to piggybacking, as I have done for decades. > > > > > > As such a piggyback, I'd anyway like to ask if anyone would know > > > a > > > reasonably powerful second hand stationary office computer that > > > can > > > run a Debian Buster Pure Blend from a net install? No need for > > > wireless, I will just connect with ethernet cable. > > Buster runs well on both my Dell's, one, a twin core 2008 with 4gb ram is ideal for pottering about on. Does all the office stuff. The other a 2012 Dell (precision T1650 if you want to compare specs) Intel® Xeon(R) CPU E3-1240 V2 @ 3.40GHz × 8 with 16gb ram, root on solid state and home on hard drives, runs all the steam and GoG games I throw at it too, often with better performance than under windows. Also streams them to twitch perfectly so plenty of spare performance. Both bought second hand, the first you can get for around £30 or so second hand. The other maybe around £600 these days. > > > > > I don't know more than that I should avoid Nvidia. > > > Why? Both of these have Nvidia cards and I have never had an insurmountable problem yet and they have both been running Buster for over two years. > > > > > Always difficult to advise, so many computers, so few recent ones > > listed as Linux-compatible. All I can offer is that I've never had > > problems with HP business desktops, > > Thanks a million! I'm not a gamer, would this machine be OK you > think? > > https://www.bluecity.se/hp-compaq-8200-elite-sff-2-50ghz-250gb-hdd-windows-10-8gb-ram-svart-50074 > > It's on the shelf for sale just down town, so I could buy it > tomorrow! > Don't know how that prices in ££'s but the spec seems fine for Buster.
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On Thu, 23 May 2019 19:24:21 + Erik Josefsson wrote: > > Thanks a million! I'm not a gamer, would this machine be OK you think? > > https://www.bluecity.se/hp-compaq-8200-elite-sff-2-50ghz-250gb-hdd-windows-10-8gb-ram-svart-50074 > > It's on the shelf for sale just down town, so I could buy it tomorrow! > Difficult to say, but it looks likely to be OK. If you're staying away from wireless, that's certainly one less problem. There's not much else to go wrong. These days, if you have sound problems, you forget the MB and just plug in a cheap USB sound thing. The people with problems are those using fairly unusual hardware, like the Intel Baytrail-based things. 'Oh it runs fine with Linux, just the sound and the wi-fi not working...' -- Joe
Re: What to buy for Buster?
Erik Josefsson composed on 2019-05-23 19:24 (UTC): > would this machine be OK you think? > > https://www.bluecity.se/hp-compaq-8200-elite-sff-2-50ghz-250gb-hdd-windows-10-8gb-ram-svart-50074 > > It's on the shelf for sale just down town, so I could buy it tomorrow! It should be OK, likely an appropriate type, but its CPU was launched over 8 years ago. I'd try for something newer, like in the 3-5 years old range, fresh off lease, to expect longer life. IME, boxes of the SFF & USFF (small & very small) size like that one is tend to run hotter than larger cases employing larger diameter fans. Heat is generally an enemy of long life. If it's not going to be on full time, heat might be a relative non-issue. If it will be used all day every day, then it's one I'd avoid. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On 5/23/19 4:59 PM, Joe wrote: On Thu, 23 May 2019 15:17:15 + Erik Josefsson wrote: Thanks all for feedback, help and answers to many of my questions, but I feel my available time and my skills put together won't meet the threshold for being able to contribute to Debian in any meaningful way for another year or two. I'll have to go back to piggybacking, as I have done for decades. As such a piggyback, I'd anyway like to ask if anyone would know a reasonably powerful second hand stationary office computer that can run a Debian Buster Pure Blend from a net install? No need for wireless, I will just connect with ethernet cable. Reasonably powerful? Is this 'games' powerful or 'office' powerful? Most business computers are bought for size, quietness and cost, not raw power. Even servers don't need to be particularly powerful unless they run MS operating systems and/or multiple VMs. The most powerful ex-office machines will be MS servers, but they are generally large and noisy and produce a fair bit of heat. Whatever you buy, throw away the hard drive and buy new. I don't know more than that I should avoid Nvidia. In theory, since it is a Pure Blend, I would then never have to bother you again :-) I mean, I would know for certain that there is nothing wrong with the computer, but rather with the computeur. I thought that maybe I would master the Teres-I and its box.redpill.dk promise, but the combo of wireless- and DNS-issues is too steep. Next life maybe. Always difficult to advise, so many computers, so few recent ones listed as Linux-compatible. All I can offer is that I've never had problems with HP business desktops, Thanks a million! I'm not a gamer, would this machine be OK you think? https://www.bluecity.se/hp-compaq-8200-elite-sff-2-50ghz-250gb-hdd-windows-10-8gb-ram-svart-50074 It's on the shelf for sale just down town, so I could buy it tomorrow! or Acer portables. But then, I don't play games (beyond solitaire) so I'm not looking for blazing fast graphics. Other people swear by Dell, but I've never used one and I've heard a few stories about them. Something else you might consider is a decent motherboard, such as Gigabyte, preferably bundled with RAM and CPU to avoid compatibility problems. With a new power supply and hard drive (SSD prices are falling quickly at the moment), an old case can be revived, and most of us have one or two of those. Great advice, thanks again! //Erik
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On 5/23/19 9:17 AM, Erik Josefsson wrote: > I'd anyway like to ask if anyone would know a > reasonably powerful second hand stationary office computer that can run > a Debian Buster Pure Blend from a net install? No need for wireless, I > will just connect with ethernet cable. I don't know if this qualifies as a Debian Pure Blend, but... Have you considered a Raspberry Pi3+? It's cheap (around $50 or $60, tricked out, but without the monitor, keyboard, and mouse). It has WiFi and Bluetooth (both can be turned off), 4 USB2 ports, an Ethernet port (it claims, electronically, to be gigabit Ethernet, but it really runs around 300 b/S), an HDMI video output, a 4 core 64 bit ARM CPU, and the current OS they provide is Debian Stretch. Buster is available, but I hear it takes a bit of futzing to get it going on the Pi -- their Stretch NOOBS download is quite a bit easier to deal with. A Buster NOOBS will be released RSN. If you're not in a hurry, it's a great machine. I've used them for several years as servers for my Internet domain (a T1 connection) with no failures. OTOH, they've been on a serious UPS. Otherwise, before the Pis I used the bottom-of-the-line Dell servers for a decade or so. IIRC, the last one I bought was around $600. Mine have had no anything but a 2 core? 64 bit Xeon CPU, a gig or so of RAM, a few USB ports, and VGA video. Not a gaming box, but extremely reliable and good enough for us mortals. They load and run Debian just fine -- and they are available with no OS, so no Winders tax. Neither of these is used, but they aren't real expensive. -- Glenn English
Re: What to buy for Buster?
On Thu, 23 May 2019 15:17:15 + Erik Josefsson wrote: > Thanks all for feedback, help and answers to many of my questions, > but I feel my available time and my skills put together won't meet > the threshold for being able to contribute to Debian in any > meaningful way for another year or two. > > I'll have to go back to piggybacking, as I have done for decades. > > As such a piggyback, I'd anyway like to ask if anyone would know a > reasonably powerful second hand stationary office computer that can > run a Debian Buster Pure Blend from a net install? No need for > wireless, I will just connect with ethernet cable. Reasonably powerful? Is this 'games' powerful or 'office' powerful? Most business computers are bought for size, quietness and cost, not raw power. Even servers don't need to be particularly powerful unless they run MS operating systems and/or multiple VMs. The most powerful ex-office machines will be MS servers, but they are generally large and noisy and produce a fair bit of heat. Whatever you buy, throw away the hard drive and buy new. > > I don't know more than that I should avoid Nvidia. > > In theory, since it is a Pure Blend, I would then never have to > bother you again :-) > > I mean, I would know for certain that there is nothing wrong with the > computer, but rather with the computeur. > > I thought that maybe I would master the Teres-I and its > box.redpill.dk promise, but the combo of wireless- and DNS-issues is > too steep. > > Next life maybe. > Always difficult to advise, so many computers, so few recent ones listed as Linux-compatible. All I can offer is that I've never had problems with HP business desktops, or Acer portables. But then, I don't play games (beyond solitaire) so I'm not looking for blazing fast graphics. Other people swear by Dell, but I've never used one and I've heard a few stories about them. Something else you might consider is a decent motherboard, such as Gigabyte, preferably bundled with RAM and CPU to avoid compatibility problems. With a new power supply and hard drive (SSD prices are falling quickly at the moment), an old case can be revived, and most of us have one or two of those. -- Joe
What to buy for Buster?
Thanks all for feedback, help and answers to many of my questions, but I feel my available time and my skills put together won't meet the threshold for being able to contribute to Debian in any meaningful way for another year or two. I'll have to go back to piggybacking, as I have done for decades. As such a piggyback, I'd anyway like to ask if anyone would know a reasonably powerful second hand stationary office computer that can run a Debian Buster Pure Blend from a net install? No need for wireless, I will just connect with ethernet cable. I don't know more than that I should avoid Nvidia. In theory, since it is a Pure Blend, I would then never have to bother you again :-) I mean, I would know for certain that there is nothing wrong with the computer, but rather with the computeur. I thought that maybe I would master the Teres-I and its box.redpill.dk promise, but the combo of wireless- and DNS-issues is too steep. Next life maybe. Best regards. //Erik
