RE: Which computer to buy ?
From what i recall the tyan mobo is finished and will be for sale soon, this is a High-END MOTHERBOARD,with firewari, scsi-160, two nic's among other's don't expect it to come cheap -Original Message- From: Jeff Weatherford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:08 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Which computer to buy ? At 12:44 PM 2/15/01 -0500, William T Wilson wrote: On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless That isn't really the case any more. Not since the K6, really. The Pentium 4 has extremely bad floating point; the Athlon is still faster than the Pentium 3 in that department. This is absolutely true! The AMD K7's are superior to the Intel chips. My only complaint is that no one has come up with a dual K7 board. I use AMD exclusively in single processor boxes and they work like a charm... The only Intel chips I own are the ones in my dual processor box. :-( BTW, if anyone knows why they haven't come out with a dual processor K7 box, let me know. -jeff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Which computer to buy ?
let's not get carried away here, tom admit's the P4 is inferior to the K7 ... FOR NOW ... once P4 optimized program's start showing up you'll see the K7 squashed on nearly every account, the more expensive P4 will pay off then. Also, Linux is more likely to support the P4 any time soon then any other OS. Let's not forget that there is allready a 64-bit version of linux running on the P4, recompiling your program's on this platform will yield a SERIOUS performance gain. My guess is that if you're on a budget (who isn't) you have no 'choice' but to go for a K7 with a 760 based chipset, the newer motherboards with the via KT266 chipset are most advisable ... ddr is comming up to speed and dual boards are expected round october have fun, joris -Original Message- From: Dr. Aldo Medina [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 6:15 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Which computer to buy ? Cam Ellison wrote: Lars Knudsen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Antonio! IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless you This was true years ago but is certainly not true anymore. The AMD Duron and Thunderbird chips are at least as good as a PIII and very much better than the P4. The P4 is only worthwhile if you have applications that are specifically optimized for it and as far as I know no such applications exists for Linux. A recent article in The COmputer Paper (you could find it in www.canadacomputes.com. I think) found the Athlon 1.2 whipped the P4 in virtually every test category. And it's less than half the price, especially when you add memory into the equation. -- Cam Ellison Ph.D. R.Psych. Something similar is reported in http://www.tomshardware.com _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which computer to buy ?
Joris Lambrecht wrote: let's not get carried away here, tom admit's the P4 is inferior to the K7 ... FOR NOW ... once P4 optimized program's start showing up you'll see the K7 squashed on nearly every account, the more expensive P4 will pay off then. Looking at how things worked out with MMX I do not think its worth waiting. MMX is nice but in order to take any advantage of it you still need to assembler programming. From what I have seen the it is just as difficult using the P4 SSE2 instructions and it is highly probable that they will not be widely used unless someone makes gcc generate SSE2 code. This is by no means a trivial task so I would expect it to take years if it happens at all. Also, Linux is more likely to support the P4 any time soon then any other OS. Let's not forget that there is allready a 64-bit version of linux running on the P4, recompiling your program's on this platform will yield a SERIOUS performance gain. I am very curious to see benchmarks supporting this claim. Anyone out there who has done some benchmarking and care to share the numbers with us ? My guess is that if you're on a budget (who isn't) you have no 'choice' but to go for a K7 with a 760 based chipset, the newer motherboards with the via KT266 chipset are most advisable ... ddr is comming up to speed and dual boards are expected round october have fun, joris Happy hacking, \Gandalf
Re: Which computer to buy ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Antonio! IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless you This was true years ago but is certainly not true anymore. The AMD Duron and Thunderbird chips are at least as good as a PIII and very much better than the P4. The P4 is only worthwhile if you have applications that are specifically optimized for it and as far as I know no such applications exists for Linux. only plan using your computer for desktop application (e.g., StarOffice). In terms of desktpo applications, there's no difference between high-end PIIIs and not- so-fast PIII (say, 800 MHz). If you would like to use Linux desktop appilcations (GNOME, KDE, etc.), consider buying 128 M RAM. Linux likes memory but 128M is ok for most things. Happy hacking, \Gandalf
Re: Which computer to buy ?
Lars Knudsen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Antonio! IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless you This was true years ago but is certainly not true anymore. The AMD Duron and Thunderbird chips are at least as good as a PIII and very much better than the P4. The P4 is only worthwhile if you have applications that are specifically optimized for it and as far as I know no such applications exists for Linux. A recent article in The COmputer Paper (you could find it in www.canadacomputes.com. I think) found the Athlon 1.2 whipped the P4 in virtually every test category. And it's less than half the price, especially when you add memory into the equation. -- Cam Ellison Ph.D. R.Psych. From Roberts Creek on B.C.'s incomparable Sunshine Coast [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which computer to buy ?
Quoting Lars Knudsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): This was true years ago but is certainly not true anymore. The AMD Duron and Thunderbird chips are at least as good as a PIII and very much better than the P4. The P4 is only worthwhile if you have applications that are specifically optimized for it and as far as I know no such applications exists for Linux. Before spending any money on a P4, I would visit http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q1/010208/index.html Cheers, -- Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 1908 653 739 Fax: +44 1908 655 151 Snail: David Wright, Earth Science Dept., Milton Keynes, England, MK7 6AA Disclaimer: These addresses are only for reaching me, and do not signify official stationery. Views expressed here are either my own or plagiarised.
Re: Which computer to buy ?
Cam Ellison wrote: Lars Knudsen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Antonio! IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless you This was true years ago but is certainly not true anymore. The AMD Duron and Thunderbird chips are at least as good as a PIII and very much better than the P4. The P4 is only worthwhile if you have applications that are specifically optimized for it and as far as I know no such applications exists for Linux. A recent article in The COmputer Paper (you could find it in www.canadacomputes.com. I think) found the Athlon 1.2 whipped the P4 in virtually every test category. And it's less than half the price, especially when you add memory into the equation. -- Cam Ellison Ph.D. R.Psych. Something similar is reported in http://www.tomshardware.com _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Which computer to buy ?
On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless That isn't really the case any more. Not since the K6, really. The Pentium 4 has extremely bad floating point; the Athlon is still faster than the Pentium 3 in that department.
Re: Which computer to buy ?
At 12:44 PM 2/15/01 -0500, William T Wilson wrote: On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless That isn't really the case any more. Not since the K6, really. The Pentium 4 has extremely bad floating point; the Athlon is still faster than the Pentium 3 in that department. This is absolutely true! The AMD K7's are superior to the Intel chips. My only complaint is that no one has come up with a dual K7 board. I use AMD exclusively in single processor boxes and they work like a charm... The only Intel chips I own are the ones in my dual processor box. :-( BTW, if anyone knows why they haven't come out with a dual processor K7 box, let me know. -jeff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which computer to buy ?
On Thursday 15 February 2001 19:08, Jeff Weatherford wrote: This is absolutely true! The AMD K7's are superior to the Intel chips. My only complaint is that no one has come up with a dual K7 board. I use AMD exclusively in single processor boxes and they work like a charm... The only Intel chips I own are the ones in my dual processor box. :-( BTW, if anyone knows why they haven't come out with a dual processor K7 box, let me know. -jeff mmm, anyone correct me if i'm wrong.. but i believe tyan will be shipping a AMD760MP board in march.. theres already been a few preview pics on some hardware sites..
Re: Which computer to buy ?
William Leese [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thursday 15 February 2001 19:08, Jeff Weatherford wrote: This is absolutely true! The AMD K7's are superior to the Intel chips. My only complaint is that no one has come up with a dual K7 board. I use AMD exclusively in single processor boxes and they work like a charm... The only Intel chips I own are the ones in my dual processor box. :-( BTW, if anyone knows why they haven't come out with a dual processor K7 box, let me know. -jeff The reason there aren't any is because there isn't a chipset to support it. The processors were built to support SMP though. AMD, at first, didn't want to get into building chipsets and they hoped someone else would take on that task. Unfortunately it wasn't happening as fast as they'd like so they did one for DDR, the AMD 760/761, and for SMP AMD 760MP. The 760/761 is done and you can buy boards based on that chipset now (at least you can order them). The 760MP, I believe, just shipped to manufacturers in the last few weeks. mmm, anyone correct me if i'm wrong.. but i believe tyan will be shipping a AMD760MP board in march.. theres already been a few preview pics on some hardware sites.. I believe that's the latest rumor I've heard as well. Some time in March. Tyan is pushing it though, putting out a board based on a chipset that was just delivered to them. Gary
Re: Which computer to buy ?
mmm, anyone correct me if i'm wrong.. but i believe tyan will be shipping a AMD760MP board in march.. theres already been a few preview pics on some hardware sites.. I believe that's the latest rumor I've heard as well. Some time in March. Tyan is pushing it though, putting out a board based on a chipset that was just delivered to them. Heh, I've had some very good luck on tyan boards. My firewall and mailservers are dual-P166 systems. They still run their little hearts out too. Robert :wq! --- Robert L. Harris| Micros~1 : Senior System Engineer |For when quality, reliability at RnD Consulting | and security just aren't \_ that important! DISCLAIMER: These are MY OPINIONS ALONE. I speak for no-one else. FYI: perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'
Which computer to buy ?
Hello, Antonio! IMHO, you should buy Intel, since AMD chips don't do floating point operations adequately (these are important in graphics), unless you only plan using your computer for desktop application (e.g., StarOffice). In terms of desktpo applications, there's no difference between high-end PIIIs and not- so-fast PIII (say, 800 MHz). If you would like to use Linux desktop appilcations (GNOME, KDE, etc.), consider buying 128 M RAM. For your video card, the most common ones sold in Brazil should work (S3 Trio 3D/2X, for instance). Check www.xfree86.org and choose your video card hardware first (so you don't get terrible headaches later) If you're buying a printer, you should know that HP has promised to release Linux drivers for the Deskjet family this semester, so it might be worth waiting, IMHO. Anyway, nowdays lots of hardware willl work with Linux. Best reagards, Henry L.
Which computer to buy ?
Hello ! I will buy a new computer and would like to know your sugestions. Here, in Brazil, I have U$ 700 to buy it. I will use-it to make small C programs, to navegate in the internet, to make laboratory works (in the graduate school).
Re: Which computer to buy ?
My advice, were you in the US, follows. However, I have no idea if similar used-computer prices exist where you are. So you'll have to judge for yourself. 1: get a cheap 88, 86, 286, or 386 system (say, $20-40) (stay away from IBM, though, due to hardware incompatibilities later). 2. Buy a big hard disk (say 4 Gigabytes, $30 used, just avoid Maxtor and Samsung according to others on this debian-user listserver). Repartition, reformat your hard disk to meet the new standards. Note that you can get another hard disk and use it as a slave later, if you want. Also buy a cheap, working CD drive (say, $20). 3. Determine if you have a motherboard or mainboard on your computer. Mainboards have the disk controllers tied to the board, while motherboards have the disk controllers tied to a card. Whichever kind your 386 uses, your new computer should use too. 4. Find a new motherboard/mainboard with CPU already installed, that uses DIMM memory. Note that if you pick a PCI motherboard, you may have to take everything out and drill new, properly matching holes in your steel case. Or you'll have to find some other way to mount the board. That's not a problem, but you should be aware of this. Get the fastest one you want. 5. Transfer the motherboard, transfer all the cards, replacing any equipment that is WIN- equipment, because Linux will not recognize it. It's junk anyways. Also, you may well want to consider an HP-IB card, if you are wanting to run lab equipment. As I understand it, this card is a standard. 6. and then load it with as much DIMM memory as you can afford. (I say DIMM, because that kind of memory is the cheapest right now in Lithuania, and the situation might be the same where you are.)Don't forget to also buy cache RAM if you lack it, though. 7. Install your system. My guess is that for $700 you should be able to get an 800-1200 MHz system this way, loaded with a ton of RAM. One thing to consider, though: My brother tried to run the serial ports under Windows-95 DOS, and found that either Windows or the PCI bus system pretty much messes up the timing of the whole thing. He ended up going with an old 386 for that purpose. So if you are thinking of running your lab equipment through the serial ports, you might reconsider and instead keep the 88/86/286/386, and plow the extra money into a good second system. But if you are going to do it through the HPIB board or through Linux, I suspect that things might come out a bit better. -Original Message- From: Antonio A. Lobato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Saturday, February 03, 2001 10:35 AM Subject: Which computer to buy ? Hello ! I will buy a new computer and would like to know your sugestions. Here, in Brazil, I have U$ 700 to buy it. I will use-it to make small C programs, to navegate in the internet, to make laboratory works (in the graduate school). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
