Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card? [SOLVED]

[M.A. Perry]

Thank you.
M.A.P.
--
On 01/15/2017 10:28 AM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2017, at 09:16, M.A. Perry wrote:


3.  From 1. and 2. I have concluded that the non-free
   "programming" added to the interface hardware
   is non-volatile (i.e. persistent); which raises the
   question how does one de-install the non-free
   firmware should that ever be necessary in the
   future? [Or have I got it wrong again??]

I doubt it's persistent.  The error message you saw seemed to be from a
post-boot command, presumably executed every time you reboot, that
loads the optional firmware into the chipset.



--
Sent from my unwashed Linux box

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card? [SOLVED]

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2017, at 09:16, M.A. Perry wrote:

> 3.  From 1. and 2. I have concluded that the non-free
>   "programming" added to the interface hardware
>   is non-volatile (i.e. persistent); which raises the
>   question how does one de-install the non-free
>   firmware should that ever be necessary in the
>   future? [Or have I got it wrong again??]

I doubt it's persistent.  The error message you saw seemed to be from a 
post-boot command, presumably executed every time you reboot, that
loads the optional firmware into the chipset.  

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card? [SOLVED]

[M.A. Perry]

People,

My thanks to all of you for the useful reactions
to my question. I will try to summarise what
was said.

1.   The ethernet internet card (in my case a
   chip set on the motherboard) requires
   "firmware" and not software. [In fact when
   I wrote "software" in my initial post, I was
   looking for an English equivalent of the
   Dutch "programatuur" or French "logiciel".]
   Hence the misunderstanding, which I first
   thought was a semantic storm in a linguistic
   glass of water for not using a word like
   "programming" instead.  An informative
   website which helped me see things in
   perspective.
  

2.   Since the internet connection already works,
  one may assume that some firmware already
  exists in the ethernet interface to enable it to
  function, albeit maybe without "optional
  features" as one respondent put it. However
  nobody has suggested that my computer
  would suffer harm by not installing the extra
  firmware. Maybe some lost speed but that's all.

3.  From 1. and 2. I have concluded that the non-free
 "programming" added to the interface hardware
 is non-volatile (i.e. persistent); which raises the
 question how does one de-install the non-free
 firmware should that ever be necessary in the
 future? [Or have I got it wrong again??]

4.  Some people have indicated clear philosophical
 objections to installing non-free firmware.

Again thanks to all of you for your advice.

M.A. Perry
--
Sent from my unwashed Linux box

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Brian]

On Sat 14 Jan 2017 at 17:27:27 +, Curt wrote:

> On 2017-01-14,   wrote:
> >
> > Suffice it to say, I prefer to not add non-free to non-free (of
> > course I'd prefer the whole firmware in the device to be free:
> > getting there slowly).
> 
> Well, then, you're a little bit pregnant.

Insightful and subtle. Qualities not often seen together.

Collapse of stout party.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Curt]

On 2017-01-14,   wrote:
>
> Suffice it to say, I prefer to not add non-free to non-free (of
> course I'd prefer the whole firmware in the device to be free:
> getting there slowly).

Well, then, you're a little bit pregnant.

> It is a complicated field, and there are differing opinions on
> that[1]
>
> regards
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_blob
>
> - -- tomás
>
>


-- 
“It is enough that the arrows fit exactly in the wounds that they have made.”
Franz Kafka

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[tomas]

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On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:38:19AM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 14/01/2017 à 11:23, to...@tuxteam.de a écrit :
> >
> >Now there's already some firmware on that card (ROM, flash,
> >whatever persistent storage). But those things are set up
> >to receive more firmware from the operating system on
> >the "main" computer.
> (...)
> >(My WiFi hardware also would like to get some firmware.
> >Since it isn't free software, I decided to go without).
> 
> May I ask why ?

This discussion has been carried out (with varying degrees of
intensity, sometimes reaching the "flamewar" level, perhaps
also because of the (seemingly paradoxical) standpoint of the
FSF on it. Since you are around for quite a while, your
innocent-looking question raises a little alarm bell in me :)

> As you noted above, many hardware parts already contain embedded non
> free firmwares (motherboard, graphic card, network adapter, storage
> adapter, hard disk, SSD...) so what difference does it make to use a
> few extra loadable firmwares or not ?

Suffice it to say, I prefer to not add non-free to non-free (of
course I'd prefer the whole firmware in the device to be free:
getting there slowly).

It is a complicated field, and there are differing opinions on
that[1]

regards

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_blob

- -- tomás
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Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 14/01/2017 à 11:43, Michael Milliman a écrit :


While I do not have a RealTek ethernet nic, the wireless interface on my
laptop is RealTek and it has a similar situation, though without the
firmware, the wireless interface will not run at all. The required
firmware for my interface is contained in 'firmware-linux-nonfree'
package.


Are you sure ? AFAICS, there is no Realtek firmware in this package. 
They are all in the firmware-realtek package.

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Michael Milliman]

On 01/14/2017 04:43 AM, Michael Milliman wrote:



On 01/14/2017 04:13 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 14/01/2017 à 10:18, M.A. Perry a écrit :


On boot-up, the monitor briefly shows a message to the
effect "... failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw firmware".
Running "dmesg | tail" shows much the same in more detail.

Nevertheless, the wired ethernet connection to internet
seems to work fine.(...)

The above suggests that other software takes over the
function of the missing Non-Free RealTek driver.


No.
1) The missing file is a firmware, not a driver.
2) No other software takes over the function of a missing firmware. 
The function just won't be used. Some firmware functions are 
optional, such as offload optimizations.


While I do not have a RealTek ethernet nic, the wireless interface on 
my laptop is RealTek and it has a similar situation, though without 
the firmware, the wireless interface will not run at all. The required 
firmware for my interface is contained in 'firmware-linux-nonfree' 
package.
After a little more research, I find that I am in fact incorrect. The 
package 'firmware-realtek' is installed on my system and is required for 
my wireless interface.  I'm not sure how it got installed, as I did not 
explicitly install it. 'firmware-linux-nonfree' is also required on my 
system, however that package appears to be needed only for the Radeon 
graphics.


My apologies for the error.
  I suspect that package would probably work for you as well.  Check 
the information associated with this package and others discussed on 
this thread to see exactly which one is needed for you nic.


As noted by other posts, in your situation, it appears that the 
firmware is optional, providing extra functionality which you will 
probably never notice (though the OS may well use it behind the 
scenes). Ultimately, the question to answer is do you care about the 
possible optimizations provided by the firmware and/or do you care 
about the message popping up at boot time.  If you don't need the 
optimizations and don't care about the message, then you don't need 
the firmware.




--
73's de Mike, WB5VQX

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Michael Milliman]

On 01/14/2017 04:13 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

Le 14/01/2017 à 10:18, M.A. Perry a écrit :


On boot-up, the monitor briefly shows a message to the
effect "... failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw firmware".
Running "dmesg | tail" shows much the same in more detail.

Nevertheless, the wired ethernet connection to internet
seems to work fine.(...)

The above suggests that other software takes over the
function of the missing Non-Free RealTek driver.


No.
1) The missing file is a firmware, not a driver.
2) No other software takes over the function of a missing firmware. 
The function just won't be used. Some firmware functions are optional, 
such as offload optimizations.


While I do not have a RealTek ethernet nic, the wireless interface on my 
laptop is RealTek and it has a similar situation, though without the 
firmware, the wireless interface will not run at all. The required 
firmware for my interface is contained in 'firmware-linux-nonfree' 
package.  I suspect that package would probably work for you as well.  
Check the information associated with this package and others discussed 
on this thread to see exactly which one is needed for you nic.


As noted by other posts, in your situation, it appears that the firmware 
is optional, providing extra functionality which you will probably never 
notice (though the OS may well use it behind the scenes). Ultimately, 
the question to answer is do you care about the possible optimizations 
provided by the firmware and/or do you care about the message popping up 
at boot time.  If you don't need the optimizations and don't care about 
the message, then you don't need the firmware.


--
73's de Mike, WB5VQX

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 14/01/2017 à 11:23, to...@tuxteam.de a écrit :


Now there's already some firmware on that card (ROM, flash,
whatever persistent storage). But those things are set up
to receive more firmware from the operating system on
the "main" computer.

(...)

(My WiFi hardware also would like to get some firmware.
Since it isn't free software, I decided to go without).


May I ask why ?
As you noted above, many hardware parts already contain embedded non 
free firmwares (motherboard, graphic card, network adapter, storage 
adapter, hard disk, SSD...) so what difference does it make to use a few 
extra loadable firmwares or not ?

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[tomas]

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On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:18:40AM +0100, M.A. Perry wrote:
> Dear People,
> A question here, not a problem as such.
> My (domestic dektop) runs under Debian 8.6 (Jessie)
> and has a RealTek ethernet (i.e internet) wired interface.
> 
> On boot-up, the monitor briefly shows a message to the
> effect "... failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw firmware".
> Running "dmesg | tail" shows much the same in more detail.
> 
> Nevertheless, the wired ethernet connection to internet
> seems to work fine. There is no wireless interface on the
> Asus P8B75-MLE motherboard as far as I know.
> 
> The above suggests that other software takes over the
> function of the missing Non-Free RealTek driver.

To complement the other (correct) answers given here:
the "firmware" is some software running on the network card
itself, which contains (at least) one computer.

Now there's already some firmware on that card (ROM, flash,
whatever persistent storage). But those things are set up
to receive more firmware from the operating system on
the "main" computer. This brings, as Pascal notes, sometimes
optional features, allowing the card to do thins the
OS would have to do.

In your case things work without the firmware, so it's up
to you to choose whether you'd try the firmware or not.

(My WiFi hardware also would like to get some firmware.
Since it isn't free software, I decided to go without).

regards
- -- t
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Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Вадим Колчев]

Search for firmware-realtek and install, this should help get rid of the
error.

14 Янв 2017 г. 12:13 PM пользователь "Pascal Hambourg" <
pas...@plouf.fr.eu.org> написал:

> Le 14/01/2017 à 10:18, M.A. Perry a écrit :
>
>>
>> On boot-up, the monitor briefly shows a message to the
>> effect "... failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw firmware".
>> Running "dmesg | tail" shows much the same in more detail.
>>
>> Nevertheless, the wired ethernet connection to internet
>> seems to work fine.(...)
>>
>> The above suggests that other software takes over the
>> function of the missing Non-Free RealTek driver.
>>
>
> No.
> 1) The missing file is a firmware, not a driver.
> 2) No other software takes over the function of a missing firmware. The
> function just won't be used. Some firmware functions are optional, such as
> offload optimizations.
>
>

Re: Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 14/01/2017 à 10:18, M.A. Perry a écrit :


On boot-up, the monitor briefly shows a message to the
effect "... failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw firmware".
Running "dmesg | tail" shows much the same in more detail.

Nevertheless, the wired ethernet connection to internet
seems to work fine.(...)

The above suggests that other software takes over the
function of the missing Non-Free RealTek driver.


No.
1) The missing file is a firmware, not a driver.
2) No other software takes over the function of a missing firmware. The 
function just won't be used. Some firmware functions are optional, such 
as offload optimizations.

Which driver for RealTek RTL8168 ethernet interface card?

[M.A. Perry]

Dear People,
A question here, not a problem as such.
My (domestic dektop) runs under Debian 8.6 (Jessie)
and has a RealTek ethernet (i.e internet) wired interface.

On boot-up, the monitor briefly shows a message to the
effect "... failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw firmware".
Running "dmesg | tail" shows much the same in more detail.

Nevertheless, the wired ethernet connection to internet
seems to work fine. There is no wireless interface on the
Asus P8B75-MLE motherboard as far as I know.

The above suggests that other software takes over the
function of the missing Non-Free RealTek driver.

Thus my question:  What should I do?
either:
a)  Leave things as they are ('If it ain't broke don't fix it')
or :
b) install the Debian non-free package "firmware-realtek (0.43)
Can someone with experience of this software please advise??
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
M.A. Perry
--
Sent from my unwashed Linux box