subject:"debian\-cd"



Een alternatief, en dit lijkt het allersimpelste:

ik heb palemoon gedownload, en de tarball uitgepakt. Je lanceert deze
browser dan vanuit de palemoon dir:

./palemoon

Palemoon is een fork van Firefox, en het ondersteunt NPAPI.

Nu had ik iets dergelijks vast ook met Firefox-esr zelf gekund. Hoe dan
ook, dit is een veel eenvoudiger oplossing dan een VM inrichten. Het was
wel leuk, dat spelen met qemu, maar iets te tijdrovend.

Re: snapshot oude firefox.. "Debian CD search engine"

On  7 January 2019 10:40 Paul van der Vlis, wrote:

> Op 07-01-19 om 09:58 schreef Gijs Hillenius:
>> On  6 January 2019 13:09 Paul van der Vlis, wrote:
>
>>> Misschien herinstalleren, maar zonder netwerkkabel?  Dan kan hij ook
>>> geen security updates doen.
>> 
>> Ik gebruik hier qemu om een virtuele machine te maken. Ik ben niet zo
>> thuis in qemu, dus hoe ik daar het netwerk uitzet?
>
> Inderdaad een interessant vraag. Met virt-install kun je "--nonetworks"
> opgeven. Maar het lijkt me dat je ook in de installer de
> netwerkconfiguratie kunt annuleren of handmatig frustreren.
> Of forwarding voor dat IP via de firewall blokkeren.
>
>> Ik heb net de debian-live-8.7.0 xfce iso binnengehengeld, en die
>> aangezet met qemu. Daar zit, zo blijkt, een voldoende oude firefox
>> op. Ik ga nu kijken of ik daar een VM mee kan maken.
>
> Raar idee dat er geen noodoplossing meer is voor die Java-plugin. Blijkbaar.

Wat ik er van begrijp is dat Firefox version 52ESR de laatste versie is
die "NPAPI" ondersteunt.

Ik moet die java plugin actieveren om beeld te krijgen van die
webcam. Dat beeld is heel even nodig, bij het aanzetten, zodat ik kan
bijstellen waar de lens naar kijkt.

Ik heb daarom Firefox52 esr op mijn laptop gepind, maar daar komt vast
een keer een probleem om de hoek, als de onderliggende libraries echt
opgewaardeerd moeten.

Op een zorgeloos moment, dacht ik ff snel een virtuele machine te maken,
alleen voor deze firefox/webcam. Na iets teveel gepriegel (twee dagen
lang ISOs en VMs proberen) heb ik er nu een waarop een Firefox 52.8
draait. Echter, als ik daarin de java plugin actieveer raakt qemu
overbezet. Ik ben er dus nog steeds niet.

fixed Re: snapshot oude firefox.. "Debian CD search engine"



Voor anderen die dit ooit bij de hand krijgen:

Na diverse tests, bleek deze live cd

debian-live-8.7.0-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso

een oude firefox (45.6) te leveren.

Ik heb die CD gebruikt voor een installatie.

Vervolgens heb ik in die installatie

/etc/apt/sources aangepast

Alles wat er staat uitgecomment en deze regel erbij gezet:

deb http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20170115T153539Z/ jessie main

Daarmee pin je de software vast op 15 Januari 2017

En dan kan je onder meer icedtea-7-plugin installeren.



-- 
"Life, loathe it or ignore it, you can't like it."
-- Marvin, "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

Re: snapshot oude firefox.. "Debian CD search engine"

2019-01-07 Thread Paul van der Vlis

Op 07-01-19 om 09:58 schreef Gijs Hillenius:
> On  6 January 2019 13:09 Paul van der Vlis, wrote:

>> Misschien herinstalleren, maar zonder netwerkkabel?  Dan kan hij ook
>> geen security updates doen.
> 
> Ik gebruik hier qemu om een virtuele machine te maken. Ik ben niet zo
> thuis in qemu, dus hoe ik daar het netwerk uitzet?

Inderdaad een interessant vraag. Met virt-install kun je "--nonetworks"
opgeven. Maar het lijkt me dat je ook in de installer de
netwerkconfiguratie kunt annuleren of handmatig frustreren.
Of forwarding voor dat IP via de firewall blokkeren.

> Ik heb net de debian-live-8.7.0 xfce iso binnengehengeld, en die
> aangezet met qemu. Daar zit, zo blijkt, een voldoende oude firefox
> op. Ik ga nu kijken of ik daar een VM mee kan maken.

Raar idee dat er geen noodoplossing meer is voor die Java-plugin. Blijkbaar.

Groet,
Paul

-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

Re: snapshot oude firefox.. "Debian CD search engine"

Sorry - vorige antwoord ging per ongelijk alleen naar Paul

On  6 January 2019 13:09 Paul van der Vlis, wrote:

> Op 06-01-19 om 12:34 schreef Gijs Hillenius:
>> On  6 January 2019 11:22 Paul van der Vlis, wrote:
>> 
>>> Op 05-01-19 om 22:57 schreef Gijs Hillenius:
>>>> Ik begrijp niet goed hoe de "Debian CD search engine" werkt:
>>>>
>>>> Op:
>>>>
>>>> https://cdimage-search.debian.org/
>>>>
>>>> zoek ik naar een Debian installatie cd met daarop een specifieke versie 
>>>> van firefox.
>>>>
>>>> firefox-esr_52.4.0esr-1~deb9u1_amd64.deb
>>>>
>>>> of anders deze 
>>>>
>>>> firefox-esr_52.9.0esr-1_amd64.deb
>>>>
>>>> Want dat is de laatste die de java plugin gebruikt. En die heb ik nodig
>>>> om een (oude?) webcam (heel even) aan te sturen.
>>>>
>>>> Ik vind firefox-esr_52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1_amd64.deb
>>>>
>>>> debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1 (list.gz | jigdo | iso)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Als ik vervolgens die iso gebruik om een virtual installatie te doen,
>>>> staat er na installatie echter firefox-esr_60 op.
>>>
>>> Begrijpen doe ik dat ook niet. Je had geen mirror ingesteld o.i.d.?
>> 
>> Bij de installatie geef ik expliciet /geen/ toestemming updates van het
>> net te halen. Maar net alsof het dan toch gebeurt... (security updates?)
>> 
>>>> Weet iemand hoe ik de search engine moet vragen welke Debian /echt/ komt
>>>> met die oude firefox?
>>>
>>> Ik raad je aan hier eens te kijken, dit is veel makkelijker:
>>> http://snapshot.debian.org/
>>> http://snapshot.debian.org/binary/firefox-esr/
>> 
>> Ja, die ken ik! Het probleem is dat ik niet kan "terugstappen" naar
>> firefox-52, want dependencies met glibc en andere pakketten. Daar
>> doorheen worstelen, da's een pad dat ik liever niet opga.
>
> Misschien herinstalleren, maar zonder netwerkkabel?  Dan kan hij ook
> geen security updates doen.

Ik gebruik hier qemu om een virtuele machine te maken. Ik ben niet zo
thuis in qemu, dus hoe ik daar het netwerk uitzet?

Ik heb net de debian-live-8.7.0 xfce iso binnengehengeld, en die
aangezet met qemu. Daar zit, zo blijkt, een voldoende oude firefox
op. Ik ga nu kijken of ik daar een VM mee kan maken.






-- 
You have the power to influence all with whom you come in contact.

Re: snapshot oude firefox.. "Debian CD search engine"

2019-01-06 Thread Paul van der Vlis

Op 05-01-19 om 22:57 schreef Gijs Hillenius:
> Ik begrijp niet goed hoe de "Debian CD search engine" werkt:
> 
> Op:
> 
> https://cdimage-search.debian.org/
> 
> zoek ik naar een Debian installatie cd met daarop een specifieke versie van 
> firefox.
> 
> firefox-esr_52.4.0esr-1~deb9u1_amd64.deb
> 
> of anders deze 
> 
> firefox-esr_52.9.0esr-1_amd64.deb
> 
> Want dat is de laatste die de java plugin gebruikt. En die heb ik nodig
> om een (oude?) webcam (heel even) aan te sturen.
> 
> Ik vind firefox-esr_52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1_amd64.deb
> 
> debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1 (list.gz | jigdo | iso)
> 
> 
> Als ik vervolgens die iso gebruik om een virtual installatie te doen,
> staat er na installatie echter firefox-esr_60 op.

Begrijpen doe ik dat ook niet. Je had geen mirror ingesteld o.i.d.?

> Weet iemand hoe ik de search engine moet vragen welke Debian /echt/ komt
> met die oude firefox?

Ik raad je aan hier eens te kijken, dit is veel makkelijker:
http://snapshot.debian.org/
http://snapshot.debian.org/binary/firefox-esr/

Groet,
Paul




-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

snapshot oude firefox.. "Debian CD search engine"

2019-01-05 Thread Gijs Hillenius

Ik begrijp niet goed hoe de "Debian CD search engine" werkt:

Op:

https://cdimage-search.debian.org/

zoek ik naar een Debian installatie cd met daarop een specifieke versie van 
firefox.

firefox-esr_52.4.0esr-1~deb9u1_amd64.deb

of anders deze 

firefox-esr_52.9.0esr-1_amd64.deb

Want dat is de laatste die de java plugin gebruikt. En die heb ik nodig
om een (oude?) webcam (heel even) aan te sturen.

Ik vind firefox-esr_52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1_amd64.deb

debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1 (list.gz | jigdo | iso)


Als ik vervolgens die iso gebruik om een virtual installatie te doen,
staat er na installatie echter firefox-esr_60 op.

Weet iemand hoe ik de search engine moet vragen welke Debian /echt/ komt
met die oude firefox?

Re: Bug#857597: debian-cd: "isolinux.bin missing or corrupt" when booting USB flash drive in old PC

2017-10-22 Thread David Christensen


On 10/20/17 12:25, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

the weekly testing ISOs for i386 and amd64 are now equipped with the
new MBR:

   
https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso

...


Testers wanted for booting this ISO from USB stick.


Boots correctly on:

Intel D865GBFLK motherboard with Pentium 4 2.8E GHz processor

Intel D945GTP motherboard with Pentium D 945 processor

Intel D945GNT motherboard with Pentium D 945 processor

Intel DQ67SWT motherboard with Core i7-2600S processor

Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop with Core 2 T7400 processor


Thanks everyone for following through.  This will restore Debian (and 
derivatives) as a viable option for many millions of older computers.  :-)



David

p.s.  amd64 version also available for testing:

https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd/debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso

Re: jigdo-lite for windows (from debian-cd list)

2016-02-08 Thread Thomas Schmitt

Hi,

we should move this to debian-user mailing list, as it is more
about installing from the MS-Windows world and not about the
installation ISOs themselves.

Please send your further replies to
  debian-user@lists.debian.org

The start of the thread is (in french) at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2016/02/msg00010.html
and switches to english at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2016/02/msg00012.html
I demonstrated a jigdo-lite download on Debian in
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2016/02/msg00014.html

Florent Larose <florent.lar...@hotmail.com> wrote on debian-cd:
> You said : " Debian mirror [http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/]:;, i am french
> and i want a french or original english version, must i change the mirror
> URL ?

I assume you will get proposed some other mirror address.

This does not influence the content of the DVD images you get.
"mirror" means "identical copy" here. They exist just to distribute
the workload over many different network parts.

The installation procedure will ask you for your preferred language.
(I choose US english because it matches best my keyboard and i do
 not have to translate german texts back to enlish in order to grasp
 their meaning.)


Maybe the people here on debian-user can give you more specific
advise if you tell us what kind of computer you want to equip with
Debian. Shall it still offer the opportunity to start MS-Windows ?
Do you need to perform special tasks or is it just to explore it ?


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

jigdo-lite for windows (from debian-cd list)

2016-02-08 Thread Florent Larose


Thanks for all that s working!

(It's just i feel not to be arrived yet ...

Indeed the first time i use jigdo ...)


-Message d'origine-
De : Thomas Schmitt [mailto:scdbac...@gmx.net] 
Envoyé : lundi 8 février 2016 17:41
À : debian-user@lists.debian.org
Cc : florent.lar...@hotmail.com
Objet : Re: jigdo-lite for windows (from debian-cd list)

Hi,

we should move this to debian-user mailing list, as it is more about installing 
from the MS-Windows world and not about the installation ISOs themselves.

Please send your further replies to
  debian-user@lists.debian.org

The start of the thread is (in french) at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2016/02/msg00010.html
and switches to english at
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2016/02/msg00012.html
I demonstrated a jigdo-lite download on Debian in
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2016/02/msg00014.html

Florent Larose <florent.lar...@hotmail.com> wrote on debian-cd:
> You said : " Debian mirror [http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/]:;, i am 
> french and i want a french or original english version, must i change 
> the mirror URL ?

I assume you will get proposed some other mirror address.

This does not influence the content of the DVD images you get.
"mirror" means "identical copy" here. They exist just to distribute the 
workload over many different network parts.

The installation procedure will ask you for your preferred language.
(I choose US english because it matches best my keyboard and i do  not have to 
translate german texts back to enlish in order to grasp  their meaning.)


Maybe the people here on debian-user can give you more specific advise if you 
tell us what kind of computer you want to equip with Debian. Shall it still 
offer the opportunity to start MS-Windows ?
Do you need to perform special tasks or is it just to explore it ?


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: jigdo-lite for windows (from debian-cd list)

2016-02-08 Thread Thomas Schmitt

Hi,

Florent Larose wrote:
> (It's just i feel not to be arrived yet ...
> Indeed the first time i use jigdo ...)

The way may be long, depending on the destination.

Before you download all 13 DVD images by jigdo, you should have a plan
what to do with them. To burn them to 13 DVD media would be next. But
actually i assume you want to install Debian on some computer.

Tell us about it. Especially if there is a DVD drive and/or a
connection to the internet.

i wrote:
> > Shall it still offer the opportunity to start MS-Windows ?
> > Do you need to perform special tasks or is it just to explore it ?

Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-13 Thread Jose Maldonado


El 11/11/15 a las 21:54, Salvador Garcia Z. escribió:


¿Sí esa es su personalidad? Esta bien, y ¿la personalidad de los de más?
Entonces si esta abriendo la boca de tal manera, algunos le van a
contestar igualmente y es normal.



Si como persona te moletas porque han dicho que tu trabajo es una 
literal mierda...mal vamos, porqué aunque te molestes, tu trabajo 
seguirá siendo lo que es, una mierda.



En castellano una queja es muy diferente a pararse al frente y decir que
tal trabajo es una mierda literalmente. Eso no es llamar la atención,
eso es ser un hijo de la chingada y como persona una mierda.



¿Pararse al frente y decir? Me entero que enviar un email y escribir eso 
es equivalente a decir eso frente-a-frente. No se en que empresa ha 
trabajado, pero al menos donde estoy ahora si haces algo mal, te lo van 
y te lo cantan en la próxima reunión de trabajo, y si te sacan los 
trapitos al sol frente a todos.



Por fortuna a parte de desarrollador soy empresario, así que comprendo
perfectamente la situación y si un cliente o proveedor no cumple mis
expectativas, lo reemplazó, así de simple. También puedo optar por hacer
la materia prima que necesitó o implementar mi propio sistema de venta.
Exactamente a eso me refiero cuando digo que si una utilería no le gusta
o esta haciendo que su empresa pierda dinero, pues la puede implementar
el, ¿no?



En eso tienes un punto, en lugar de hacer estos "espectáculos" es mejor 
decirle que se largue y ya.



Muchos están de acuerdo con el, pero muchos no estamos de acuerdo, de
hecho ya no utilizamos su kernel.



Cierto muchos no están de acuerdo, pero la gran mayoría si que lo está. 
Por cierto ¿Que kernel usas? ¿NT, BSD o cuál otro?



Su figura no es algo que me provoque intimidad, para mi es una persona
como cualquier otra, un programador más que personalmente le mente su
madre, así que tampoco le tengo miedo.



Dudo mucho que la finalidad de Linus sea la de intimidar, en especial, 
porque es solo una persona más, dejarse intimidar por su actitud es solo 
una muestra de falta de confianza en ti mismo.


--
Dios en su Cielo, todo bien la Tierra
*

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-11 Thread Salvador Garcia Z.

El nov 11, 2015 8:37 AM, "Jose Maldonado"  escribió:
>
> El 10/11/15 a las 12:08, Javier Barroso escribió:
>>
>> Buenas,
>>
>>
>>
>> El último hilo que leí de Linus fue bastante fuerte:
>>
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/10/28/215
>>
>> No sé si es bueno que se hable así, pero en este caso de momento el
>> tema sigue para adelante
>>
>> Saludos
>>
>
> Pues tomando en cuenta la locura de código de la que se queja Linus en
ese mensaje, yo en lo personal lo apoyo.
>
> Las regla de desarrollo para el kernel son bien claras, seguirlas al pie
de la letra te evitará problemas de este tipo, pero parece que el
desarrollador de esas tres líneas se le olvido o quiso pasarse por el forro
dichas reglas e hizo semejante desatino, y terminando cosechando lo que
sembró.
>
>
> Saludos.
>
> --
> Dios en su Cielo, todo bien la Tierra
> *
>

Ya no se que tan confiable es Torvalds, es buen programador sin duda pero
sus intereses sobre el kernel y todas las nuevas implementaciónes indican a
un sistema sin opciones y todo bajo su propia línea la cual apunta más a un
nuevo microsof. Me quedó claro que si desarrollo un kernel, puede
desarrollar un compilador o cualquier otro software que necesita.

Por otra parte, se olvida que su kernel es lo que es gracias al open source
de lo contrario el no existiría y muchos problemas de fondo en el kernel
fueron solucionadas por empresas independientes a el.

La base del open source es una colaboración mutua, no alguien pateando al
resto del planta.

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-11 Thread Jose Maldonado


El 10/11/15 a las 12:08, Javier Barroso escribió:

Buenas,


El último hilo que leí de Linus fue bastante fuerte:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/10/28/215

No sé si es bueno que se hable así, pero en este caso de momento el
tema sigue para adelante

Saludos



Pues tomando en cuenta la locura de código de la que se queja Linus en 
ese mensaje, yo en lo personal lo apoyo.


Las regla de desarrollo para el kernel son bien claras, seguirlas al pie 
de la letra te evitará problemas de este tipo, pero parece que el 
desarrollador de esas tres líneas se le olvido o quiso pasarse por el 
forro dichas reglas e hizo semejante desatino, y terminando cosechando 
lo que sembró.



Saludos.

--
Dios en su Cielo, todo bien la Tierra
*

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-11 Thread Jose Maldonado


El 11/11/15 a las 13:39, Salvador Garcia Z. escribió:



Ya no se que tan confiable es Torvalds, es buen programador sin duda
pero sus intereses sobre el kernel y todas las nuevas implementaciónes
indican a un sistema sin opciones y todo bajo su propia línea la cual
apunta más a un nuevo microsof. Me quedó claro que si desarrollo un
kernel, puede desarrollar un compilador o cualquier otro software que
necesita.

Por otra parte, se olvida que su kernel es lo que es gracias al open
source de lo contrario el no existiría y muchos problemas de fondo en el
kernel fueron solucionadas por empresas independientes a el.

La base del open source es una colaboración mutua, no alguien pateando
al resto del planta.



Pues Torvalds sigue siendo tan confiable como siempre, él nunca ha 
negado que terceros colaboren con el desarrollo del kernel, siempre y 
cuando sigan las pautas pautadas para hacer dicha labor, pautas que 
dicho sea de paso, son discutidas y aprobadas en conceso, no solo por 
Torvalds sino también por la enorme plantillas de personas y 
representantes de empresas que hacen posible el desarrollo del kernel.


Que Torvalds en su calidad de orquestador "patee" a quien se lo merece, 
es algo que las mismas empresas le han permitido hacer. No están 
desarrollando un "Hola mundo" están desarrollando un kernel, el kernel 
que potencia a un sistema operativo con una fuerte presencia en 
distintos niveles.


¿Como creen que se trabaja en las empresas? ¿En verdad piensa que en las 
privadas si metes la pata te dan premios por eso? Pues no. Te patean 
igual o peor, dependiendo del jefazo, de su nivel estrés, tolerancia y 
el nivelazo de "cagada" que hagas con tu trabajo, y en el mejor de los 
casos, no te dicen nada mas que "Recoja sus cosas y larguese".


¿Que te patearon por hacer mal tu trabajo? La culpa de eso es tuya y 
solo tuya, para la próxima trata de no meter la pata tan feo, esa es la 
realidad de las cosas.


--
Dios en su Cielo, todo bien la Tierra
*

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-11 Thread Rodolfo Edgar

El 10/11/15, Camaleón  escribió:
> El Tue, 10 Nov 2015 17:38:11 +0100, Javier Barroso escribió:
>
>> 2015-11-10 17:07 GMT+01:00 Altair Linux :
>
> (...)
>
>>> En serio, parece que el ambiente es "zona de guerra" y los ataques
>>> personales (cuanto mas salvaje, mejor) estan a la orden del dia. Una
>>> leve muestra parecen ser algunos videos de Torvalds diciendo lo que
>>> piensa, a su estilo, y lei hace tiempo en algun articulo que ningun
>>> relaciones publicas queria trabajar con Torwalds precisamente por su
>>> comportamiento.
>>
>> El último hilo que leí de Linus fue bastante fuerte:
>>
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/10/28/215
>>
>> No sé si es bueno que se hable así, pero en este caso de momento el tema
>> sigue para adelante
>
> Bueno, más allá de la palabrería que usa al menos explica técnicamente
> por qué es mejor una opción que otra, o simplemente por qué él quiere una
> opción antes que otra, que también se trata de preferencias personales.
>
> Y eso se puede rebatir.
>
> Pero que alguien te diga, "no voy a seguir con este tema y marco este bug
> como cerrado" es una cosa muy distinta. Sin argumentos, sin debate, sin
> opciones... si te pilla en un momento de debilidad o bajo de defensas
> sólo puedes batirte en retirada.

Muy cierto lo que dice la amiga, algunas veces falta tolerancia, pero
existe también personas que generan este tipo de reacciones, preguntas
y respuestas no muy justificadas y tal vez colman la paciencia de los
desarrolladores, solo falta tolerancia, eso depende ya de cada
persona, saber tener equilibrio emocional y responder, el lenguaje es
muy rico en argumentos y se puede responder de manera clara, sin usar
términos que tal vez como dice puedan pillarte en mal momento y te
hiere, ojalá todos tengamos tolerancia y paciencia para construir un
mundo mejor :)



>
> Saludos,
>
> --
> Camaleón
>
>

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-11 Thread Salvador Garcia Z.

El nov 11, 2015 12:45 PM, "Jose Maldonado"  escribió:
>
> El 11/11/15 a las 15:28, Salvador Garcia Z. escribió:
>
>>
>> A ver.
>>
>> El desarrollo del kernel es de el y pone las reglas del juego. Sin
>> embargo el núcleo linux es fuerte hoy, por que con su idea original ya
>> no existiera. Entonces el open source si fue eficiente para el, lo
>> contrario a hoy que todo es excremento.
>>
>> El gcc no es de el, así como el resto de utilerías necesarias. Tampoco
>> el desarrollo de entornos gráficos, pero los patea por igual y el mundo
>> no puede girar en su entorno.
>>
>> Entre empresas existe un respecto de lo contrario se terminan las
>> relaciones, es lo mismo entre un proyecto a otro.
>>
>> Por otra parte, los de más proyectos no están bajo su nómina así que no
>> veo una relación empresarial.
>>
>
> Sus opiniones respecto a otros proyecto son solo eso, sus opiniones. Son
algo personal, y que él las de en su "normal" sentido de patadas es su
problema. ¿Qué a veces se le va el yoyo? Si, y a Stallman también le pasa
lo mismo, como a muchos otros también. ¿Qué siendo la figura que es debería
comedirse? Tal vez, sería algo que él debe revisar y que dudo cambie, pues
simplemente esa es su personalidad.
>
> ¿Qué GCC no es de Linus? Cierto, pero las veces en que Linus se ha
quejado lo ha hecho con base y las ha presentado (como el caso que
mostraron por acá), y muchos desarrolladores le dieron la razón, como el
caso en el que el GCC generaba un montón de código basura compilando
ciertas partes del kernel cuando salio GCC 4.9, la queja de Linus fue
escuchada y muchos de esos errores se repararon luego de esas duras quejas.
Mal recibidas la patadas no fueron.
>
> Lo mismo puedo decir del resto de las utilerías.
>
> Entre las empresas existe "respeto" (sí, así es como se escribe), pero
ese respeto se acaba cuando empiezas a tocarles las "pelotas" y las
ganancias y comienzas a generar problemas y perdidas, es entonces cuando
ese respeto se pierde y te parten la cara, y con toda la razón del mundo,
porque si tu trabajo es generar soluciones, en lugar de crearlas, te
mereces que te pateen a ver si reaccionas.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dios en su Cielo, todo bien la Tierra
> *
>
¿Sí esa es su personalidad? Esta bien, y ¿la personalidad de los de más?
Entonces si esta abriendo la boca de tal manera, algunos le van a contestar
igualmente y es normal.

En castellano una queja es muy diferente a pararse al frente y decir que
tal trabajo es una mierda literalmente. Eso no es llamar la atención, eso
es ser un hijo de la chingada y como persona una mierda.

Por fortuna a parte de desarrollador soy empresario, así que comprendo
perfectamente la situación y si un cliente o proveedor no cumple mis
expectativas, lo reemplazó, así de simple. También puedo optar por hacer la
materia prima que necesitó o implementar mi propio sistema de venta.
Exactamente a eso me refiero cuando digo que si una utilería no le gusta o
esta haciendo que su empresa pierda dinero, pues la puede implementar el,
¿no?

Muchos están de acuerdo con el, pero muchos no estamos de acuerdo, de hecho
ya no utilizamos su kernel.

Su figura no es algo que me provoque intimidad, para mi es una persona como
cualquier otra, un programador más que personalmente le mente su madre, así
que tampoco le tengo miedo.

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-11 Thread Salvador Garcia Z.

El nov 11, 2015 10:22 AM, "Jose Maldonado"  escribió:
>
> El 11/11/15 a las 13:39, Salvador Garcia Z. escribió:
>
>>
>>
>> Ya no se que tan confiable es Torvalds, es buen programador sin duda
>> pero sus intereses sobre el kernel y todas las nuevas implementaciónes
>> indican a un sistema sin opciones y todo bajo su propia línea la cual
>> apunta más a un nuevo microsof. Me quedó claro que si desarrollo un
>> kernel, puede desarrollar un compilador o cualquier otro software que
>> necesita.
>>
>> Por otra parte, se olvida que su kernel es lo que es gracias al open
>> source de lo contrario el no existiría y muchos problemas de fondo en el
>> kernel fueron solucionadas por empresas independientes a el.
>>
>> La base del open source es una colaboración mutua, no alguien pateando
>> al resto del planta.
>>
>
> Pues Torvalds sigue siendo tan confiable como siempre, él nunca ha negado
que terceros colaboren con el desarrollo del kernel, siempre y cuando sigan
las pautas pautadas para hacer dicha labor, pautas que dicho sea de paso,
son discutidas y aprobadas en conceso, no solo por Torvalds sino también
por la enorme plantillas de personas y representantes de empresas que hacen
posible el desarrollo del kernel.
>
> Que Torvalds en su calidad de orquestador "patee" a quien se lo merece,
es algo que las mismas empresas le han permitido hacer. No están
desarrollando un "Hola mundo" están desarrollando un kernel, el kernel que
potencia a un sistema operativo con una fuerte presencia en distintos
niveles.
>
> ¿Como creen que se trabaja en las empresas? ¿En verdad piensa que en las
privadas si metes la pata te dan premios por eso? Pues no. Te patean igual
o peor, dependiendo del jefazo, de su nivel estrés, tolerancia y el
nivelazo de "cagada" que hagas con tu trabajo, y en el mejor de los casos,
no te dicen nada mas que "Recoja sus cosas y larguese".
>
> ¿Que te patearon por hacer mal tu trabajo? La culpa de eso es tuya y solo
tuya, para la próxima trata de no meter la pata tan feo, esa es la realidad
de las cosas.
>
>
> --
> Dios en su Cielo, todo bien la Tierra
> *
>

A ver.

El desarrollo del kernel es de el y pone las reglas del juego. Sin embargo
el núcleo linux es fuerte hoy, por que con su idea original ya no
existiera. Entonces el open source si fue eficiente para el, lo contrario a
hoy que todo es excremento.

El gcc no es de el, así como el resto de utilerías necesarias. Tampoco el
desarrollo de entornos gráficos, pero los patea por igual y el mundo no
puede girar en su entorno.

Entre empresas existe un respecto de lo contrario se terminan las
relaciones, es lo mismo entre un proyecto a otro.

Por otra parte, los de más proyectos no están bajo su nómina así que no veo
una relación empresarial.

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-11 Thread Jose Maldonado


El 11/11/15 a las 15:28, Salvador Garcia Z. escribió:


A ver.

El desarrollo del kernel es de el y pone las reglas del juego. Sin
embargo el núcleo linux es fuerte hoy, por que con su idea original ya
no existiera. Entonces el open source si fue eficiente para el, lo
contrario a hoy que todo es excremento.

El gcc no es de el, así como el resto de utilerías necesarias. Tampoco
el desarrollo de entornos gráficos, pero los patea por igual y el mundo
no puede girar en su entorno.

Entre empresas existe un respecto de lo contrario se terminan las
relaciones, es lo mismo entre un proyecto a otro.

Por otra parte, los de más proyectos no están bajo su nómina así que no
veo una relación empresarial.



Sus opiniones respecto a otros proyecto son solo eso, sus opiniones. Son 
algo personal, y que él las de en su "normal" sentido de patadas es su 
problema. ¿Qué a veces se le va el yoyo? Si, y a Stallman también le 
pasa lo mismo, como a muchos otros también. ¿Qué siendo la figura que es 
debería comedirse? Tal vez, sería algo que él debe revisar y que dudo 
cambie, pues simplemente esa es su personalidad.


¿Qué GCC no es de Linus? Cierto, pero las veces en que Linus se ha 
quejado lo ha hecho con base y las ha presentado (como el caso que 
mostraron por acá), y muchos desarrolladores le dieron la razón, como el 
caso en el que el GCC generaba un montón de código basura compilando 
ciertas partes del kernel cuando salio GCC 4.9, la queja de Linus fue 
escuchada y muchos de esos errores se repararon luego de esas duras 
quejas. Mal recibidas la patadas no fueron.


Lo mismo puedo decir del resto de las utilerías.

Entre las empresas existe "respeto" (sí, así es como se escribe), pero 
ese respeto se acaba cuando empiezas a tocarles las "pelotas" y las 
ganancias y comienzas a generar problemas y perdidas, es entonces cuando 
ese respeto se pierde y te parten la cara, y con toda la razón del 
mundo, porque si tu trabajo es generar soluciones, en lugar de crearlas, 
te mereces que te pateen a ver si reaccionas.




--
Dios en su Cielo, todo bien la Tierra
*

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-10 Thread Camaleón

El Tue, 10 Nov 2015 16:27:43 +0100, Javier Barroso escribió:

>> Acabo de leer este mensaje sobre el cierre del proyecto Debian Live en
>> la lista de desarrolladores:
>>
>> An abrupt End to Debian Live
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/11/msg00110.html

(...)

>> Sinceramente, creo que las cosas se pueden hacer mejor: muy mal Debian
>> :-(
> 
> Espero que se arregle, parece que han rectificado y han admitido el
> cambio de nombre, probablemente demasiado tarde para el bien de Debian:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2015/11/msg00053.html
> 
> Aunque sinceramente, siempre que alguién dice que lo deja, casi nunca
> vuelve :(. Realmente una pena

Este tipo de actuaciones hay que cortarlas de raíz y no esperar a que 
quien te da una puñalada después reconozca el "error" y te pida perdón, 
no resulta creíble (los ataques directos al proyecto Debian Live en los 
bugs son cuanto menos hirientes). 

Echo en falta una voz que esté por encima de desarrolladores/mantenedores/
empaquetadores, velando por los intereses generales de Debian y no por 
los particulares de cada uno pero sobre todo que sepa reconocer los 
méritos y el esfuerzo individual de quien ha dedicado tiempo en hacer 
mejor y más accesible Debian.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-10 Thread Javier Barroso

Hola,

2015-11-10 16:21 GMT+01:00 Camaleón <noela...@gmail.com>:
> Hola,
>
> Acabo de leer este mensaje sobre el cierre del proyecto Debian Live en la
> lista de desarrolladores:
>
> An abrupt End to Debian Live
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/11/msg00110.html
>
> En resumen: el "origen" del conflicto parece ser una solicitud de cambio
> de nombre de los paquetes para que no haya colisiones entre distintos
> proyectos pero la cosa deriva en acusaciones feas y una falta de tacto
> inquietante por parte de los encargados de los proyectos en cuita (debian-
> cd). El encargado del proyecto Debian Live se harta (normal) y cierra.
>
> Sinceramente, creo que las cosas se pueden hacer mejor: muy mal Debian :-(

Espero que se arregle, parece que han rectificado y han admitido el
cambio de nombre, probablemente demasiado tarde para el bien de
Debian:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2015/11/msg00053.html

Aunque sinceramente, siempre que alguién dice que lo deja, casi nunca
vuelve :(. Realmente una pena

Saludos

Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-10 Thread Camaleón

Hola,

Acabo de leer este mensaje sobre el cierre del proyecto Debian Live en la 
lista de desarrolladores:

An abrupt End to Debian Live
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/11/msg00110.html

En resumen: el "origen" del conflicto parece ser una solicitud de cambio 
de nombre de los paquetes para que no haya colisiones entre distintos 
proyectos pero la cosa deriva en acusaciones feas y una falta de tacto 
inquietante por parte de los encargados de los proyectos en cuita (debian-
cd). El encargado del proyecto Debian Live se harta (normal) y cierra. 

Sinceramente, creo que las cosas se pueden hacer mejor: muy mal Debian :-(

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-10 Thread Javier Barroso

Buenas de nuevo,

2015-11-10 16:54 GMT+01:00 Camaleón :
> El Tue, 10 Nov 2015 16:27:43 +0100, Javier Barroso escribió:
>
>>> Acabo de leer este mensaje sobre el cierre del proyecto Debian Live en
>>> la lista de desarrolladores:
>>>
>>> An abrupt End to Debian Live
>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/11/msg00110.html
>
> (...)
>
>>> Sinceramente, creo que las cosas se pueden hacer mejor: muy mal Debian
>>> :-(
>>
>> Espero que se arregle, parece que han rectificado y han admitido el
>> cambio de nombre, probablemente demasiado tarde para el bien de Debian:
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2015/11/msg00053.html
>>
>> Aunque sinceramente, siempre que alguién dice que lo deja, casi nunca
>> vuelve :(. Realmente una pena
>
> Este tipo de actuaciones hay que cortarlas de raíz y no esperar a que
> quien te da una puñalada después reconozca el "error" y te pida perdón,
> no resulta creíble (los ataques directos al proyecto Debian Live en los
> bugs son cuanto menos hirientes).
>
> Echo en falta una voz que esté por encima de desarrolladores/mantenedores/
> empaquetadores, velando por los intereses generales de Debian y no por
> los particulares de cada uno pero sobre todo que sepa reconocer los
> méritos y el esfuerzo individual de quien ha dedicado tiempo en hacer
> mejor y más accesible Debian.

También le han pedido al lider de Debian que tome cartas en el asunto:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2015/11/msg00050.html

A ver como acaba este tema. Estar en Debian y no querer colaborar,
tiene cosa el asunto

Saludos!

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-10 Thread Altair Linux

Hola,

desde mi desconocimiento sobre el tema: parece que el salvajismo en los
proyectos relacionados con los desarrollos en Linux es bastante comun (que
conste que no estoy respaldandolo) y segun parece ese nivel de hostilidades
produce un nivel de calidad mas elevado (segun ellos, repito).

Recuerdo que no hace mucho se produjeron dos dimisiones de peso en uno de
los desarrollos, una se produjo por ser persona directamente relacionada
que dijo (entre otras cosas) no soportar la situacion y el ambiente; la
segunda dimision parece que fue por solidaridad y apoyo a la primera
persona.

En serio, parece que el ambiente es "zona de guerra" y los ataques
personales (cuanto mas salvaje, mejor) estan a la orden del dia. Una leve
muestra parecen ser algunos videos de Torvalds diciendo lo que piensa, a su
estilo, y lei hace tiempo en algun articulo que ningun relaciones publicas
queria trabajar con Torwalds precisamente por su comportamiento.

Y todo esto, repito, dicen que es porque la calidad del codigo es lo
primero.

Sorprendente.










El 10 de noviembre de 2015, 16:54, Camaleón  escribió:

> El Tue, 10 Nov 2015 16:27:43 +0100, Javier Barroso escribió:
>
> >> Acabo de leer este mensaje sobre el cierre del proyecto Debian Live en
> >> la lista de desarrolladores:
> >>
> >> An abrupt End to Debian Live
> >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/11/msg00110.html
>
> (...)
>
> >> Sinceramente, creo que las cosas se pueden hacer mejor: muy mal Debian
> >> :-(
> >
> > Espero que se arregle, parece que han rectificado y han admitido el
> > cambio de nombre, probablemente demasiado tarde para el bien de Debian:
> >
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2015/11/msg00053.html
> >
> > Aunque sinceramente, siempre que alguién dice que lo deja, casi nunca
> > vuelve :(. Realmente una pena
>
> Este tipo de actuaciones hay que cortarlas de raíz y no esperar a que
> quien te da una puñalada después reconozca el "error" y te pida perdón,
> no resulta creíble (los ataques directos al proyecto Debian Live en los
> bugs son cuanto menos hirientes).
>
> Echo en falta una voz que esté por encima de desarrolladores/mantenedores/
> empaquetadores, velando por los intereses generales de Debian y no por
> los particulares de cada uno pero sobre todo que sepa reconocer los
> méritos y el esfuerzo individual de quien ha dedicado tiempo en hacer
> mejor y más accesible Debian.
>
> Saludos,
>
> --
> Camaleón
>
>

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-10 Thread Javier Barroso

Buenas,

2015-11-10 17:07 GMT+01:00 Altair Linux :
>
> Hola,
>
> desde mi desconocimiento sobre el tema: parece que el salvajismo en los
> proyectos relacionados con los desarrollos en Linux es bastante comun (que
> conste que no estoy respaldandolo) y segun parece ese nivel de hostilidades
> produce un nivel de calidad mas elevado (segun ellos, repito).
>
> Recuerdo que no hace mucho se produjeron dos dimisiones de peso en uno de
> los desarrollos, una se produjo por ser persona directamente relacionada que
> dijo (entre otras cosas) no soportar la situacion y el ambiente; la segunda
> dimision parece que fue por solidaridad y apoyo a la primera persona.
>
> En serio, parece que el ambiente es "zona de guerra" y los ataques
> personales (cuanto mas salvaje, mejor) estan a la orden del dia. Una leve
> muestra parecen ser algunos videos de Torvalds diciendo lo que piensa, a su
> estilo, y lei hace tiempo en algun articulo que ningun relaciones publicas
> queria trabajar con Torwalds precisamente por su comportamiento.

El último hilo que leí de Linus fue bastante fuerte:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/10/28/215

No sé si es bueno que se hable así, pero en este caso de momento el
tema sigue para adelante

Saludos

Re: Debian-Live se va... Debian CD se queda

2015-11-10 Thread Camaleón

El Tue, 10 Nov 2015 17:38:11 +0100, Javier Barroso escribió:

> 2015-11-10 17:07 GMT+01:00 Altair Linux :

(...)

>> En serio, parece que el ambiente es "zona de guerra" y los ataques
>> personales (cuanto mas salvaje, mejor) estan a la orden del dia. Una
>> leve muestra parecen ser algunos videos de Torvalds diciendo lo que
>> piensa, a su estilo, y lei hace tiempo en algun articulo que ningun
>> relaciones publicas queria trabajar con Torwalds precisamente por su
>> comportamiento.
> 
> El último hilo que leí de Linus fue bastante fuerte:
> 
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/10/28/215
> 
> No sé si es bueno que se hable así, pero en este caso de momento el tema
> sigue para adelante

Bueno, más allá de la palabrería que usa al menos explica técnicamente 
por qué es mejor una opción que otra, o simplemente por qué él quiere una 
opción antes que otra, que también se trata de preferencias personales.

Y eso se puede rebatir.

Pero que alguien te diga, "no voy a seguir con este tema y marco este bug 
como cerrado" es una cosa muy distinta. Sin argumentos, sin debate, sin 
opciones... si te pilla en un momento de debilidad o bajo de defensas 
sólo puedes batirte en retirada.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

debian CD repository

2013-03-05 Thread Muhammad Yousuf Khan

i have downloaded all the Debian 6 DVDs from the repo. but as per my
knowledge when i run apt-get install packagename it directly go to
internet how come i tell apt-get or dpkg to install it from DVDs and
secondly it should ask for the correct DVD like Microsoft does.  for
example. if samba is placed in DVD 8 is should prompt me that insert
DVD 8. same way like microsoft does.

thanks.


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Re: debian CD repository

2013-03-05 Thread Darac Marjal

On Tue, Mar 05, 2013 at 03:27:21PM +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
 i have downloaded all the Debian 6 DVDs from the repo. but as per my
 knowledge when i run apt-get install packagename it directly go to
 internet how come i tell apt-get or dpkg to install it from DVDs and
 secondly it should ask for the correct DVD like Microsoft does.  for
 example. if samba is placed in DVD 8 is should prompt me that insert
 DVD 8. same way like microsoft does.

Look at /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* for any
mention of http://; or ftp://;. Put a # symbol (without the quotes,
of course) at the start of each such line, then run apt-get update to
refresh the database.



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: debian CD repository

2013-03-05 Thread Jude DaShiell

There is an apt-cd package to be used for what you want to do and you may 
need to edit /etc/apt/sources.list as well. On Tue, 5 Mar 2013, Muhammad 
Yousuf Khan wrote:

 i have downloaded all the Debian 6 DVDs from the repo. but as per my
 knowledge when i run apt-get install packagename it directly go to
 internet how come i tell apt-get or dpkg to install it from DVDs and
 secondly it should ask for the correct DVD like Microsoft does.  for
 example. if samba is placed in DVD 8 is should prompt me that insert
 DVD 8. same way like microsoft does.
 
 thanks.
 
 
 

---
jude jdash...@shellworld.net
Remember Microsoft didn't write Tiger 10.4 or any of its successors.


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Re: debian CD repository

2013-03-05 Thread João Luis Meloni Assirati


Em 05-03-2013 07:27, Muhammad Yousuf Khan escreveu:

i have downloaded all the Debian 6 DVDs from the repo. but as per my
knowledge when i run apt-get installpackagename it directly go to
internet how come i tell apt-get or dpkg to install it from DVDs and
secondly it should ask for the correct DVD like Microsoft does.  for
example. if samba is placed in DVD 8 is should prompt me that insert
DVD 8. same way like microsoft does.


This happens because in some moment (perhaps at the installation) you 
configured the installation to use a network mirror for Debian packages. 
It is good to have network mirrors configured because they have updated 
software, which may not be the case for Debian or Microsoft DVDs.


It may be happening two things:

1. You have both your DVDs and a network mirror configured as a source 
for packages, but the cdroms are outdated and apt-get prefers packages 
from the network as they have updated versions in relation to the 
packages that are in your DVDs.


2. You have only network mirrors configured as source packages.

To decide which case you have, open a terminal and do the command

cat /etc/apt/sources.list

If this file has 6 lines starting as 'deb cdrom:', then you have 
situation 1. Otherwise, 2.


If you have situation 1 and you want to get only packages from the DVDs, 
never from the network, you can do the following: first, move 
sources.list away:


mv /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.OLD

then insert the first DVD and do the command

apt-cdrom add

and repeat the last command for every DVD you have. All these command 
mus be run as root.


If you have situation 1, you can also choose to maintain  the network 
mirrors configured as source of packages, but download newer DVDs. The 
newest are version 6.0.7 for Debian stable, and then run


apt-cdrom add

for all of them without moving away the file sources.list. However, 
downloading new DVDs may not be very advantageous, because you will end 
up downloading a lot of packages in the DVDs that you will never use. 
But it can be useful if your network connection is intermittent or you 
will use the DVDs in a lot of computers.


Situation 2 is similar. If you don't want packages from the network, 
then execute


mv /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.OLD

otherwise keep it. Then execute

apt-cdrom add

for every DVD you already have.

João Luis.


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thanks all and specially João Luis Meloni Assirati for providing such
brief instruction and advices. would please be kind enough and share
me a howto for creating a mirror server for LAN. which auto sync and
updates all the new packages.

Thanks,

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 3:58 PM, João Luis Meloni Assirati
assir...@nonada.if.usp.br wrote:
Em 05-03-2013 07:27, Muhammad Yousuf Khan escreveu:

i have downloaded all the Debian 6 DVDs from the repo. but as per my
knowledge when i run apt-get installpackagename it directly go to
internet how come i tell apt-get or dpkg to install it from DVDs and
secondly it should ask for the correct DVD like Microsoft does. for
example. if samba is placed in DVD 8 is should prompt me that insert
DVD 8. same way like microsoft does.

This happens because in some moment (perhaps at the installation) you
configured the installation to use a network mirror for Debian packages. It
is good to have network mirrors configured because they have updated
software, which may not be the case for Debian or Microsoft DVDs.

It may be happening two things:

1. You have both your DVDs and a network mirror configured as a source for
packages, but the cdroms are outdated and apt-get prefers packages from the
network as they have updated versions in relation to the packages that are
in your DVDs.

2. You have only network mirrors configured as source packages.

To decide which case you have, open a terminal and do the command

cat /etc/apt/sources.list

If this file has 6 lines starting as 'deb cdrom:', then you have situation
1. Otherwise, 2.

If you have situation 1 and you want to get only packages from the DVDs,
never from the network, you can do the following: first, move sources.list
away:

mv /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.OLD

then insert the first DVD and do the command

apt-cdrom add

and repeat the last command for every DVD you have. All these command mus be
run as root.

If you have situation 1, you can also choose to maintain the network
mirrors configured as source of packages, but download newer DVDs. The
newest are version 6.0.7 for Debian stable, and then run

apt-cdrom add

for all of them without moving away the file sources.list. However,
downloading new DVDs may not be very advantageous, because you will end up
downloading a lot of packages in the DVDs that you will never use. But it
can be useful if your network connection is intermittent or you will use the
DVDs in a lot of computers.

Situation 2 is similar. If you don't want packages from the network, then
execute

mv /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.OLD

otherwise keep it. Then execute

apt-cdrom add

for every DVD you already have.

João Luis.

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Re: debian CD repository

2013-03-05 Thread João Luis Meloni Assirati


Em 05-03-2013 08:31, Muhammad Yousuf Khan escreveu:

thanks all  and specially João Luis Meloni Assirati for providing such
brief instruction and advices. would please be kind enough and share
me a howto for creating a mirror server for LAN. which auto sync and
updates all the new packages.
I have no experience in setting up a mirror, but here you can find 
general directions:


http://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror.en.html

João Luis.

Debian cd mp3

2011-07-29 Thread cosme

hola

Hay algun programa en Debian squeeze que me permita crear CDs mp3???

El brasero no tiene esa opcion ni k3b ni xfburn

uso GNOME

Salu2'
Cosme


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Re: Debian cd mp3

2011-07-29 Thread Raúl Armenta

El 29/07/11, co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu escribió:
 hola

 Hay algun programa en Debian squeeze que me permita crear CDs mp3???

 El brasero no tiene esa opcion ni k3b ni xfburn

 uso GNOME

 Salu2'
 Cosme


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 creo que el sound-juicer te servirá

PcCasa / # aptitude show sound-juicer
Paquete: sound-juicer
Estado: sin instalar
Versión: 2.32.0-1
Prioridad: opcional
Sección: universe/gnome
Desarrollador: Ubuntu Developers ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com
Tamaño sin comprimir: 5001 k
Depende de: libatk1.0-0 (= 1.12.4), libbrasero-media1 (= 2.31.91),
libc6 (= 2.7), libcanberra-gtk0 (= 0.2), libdbus-glib-1-2 (= 0.78),
libgconf2-4
(= 2.31.1), libglib2.0-0 (= 2.18.0), libgnome-media0,
libgstreamer0.10-0 (= 0.10.15), libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.20.0),
libmusicbrainz3-6 (=
3.0.2), libpango1.0-0 (= 1.14.0), gconf2 (= 2.28.1-2),
gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (= 0.10.20), gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
Recomienda: eject
Sugiere: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-lame,
gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad, brasero
Descripción: Codificador de CD de GNOME
 A CD ripper for GNOME which aims to have a simple, clean, easy to use
interface.

 The package includes support by default for Vorbis and FLAC formats.
For other supports you need the following packages:
 * gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly to encode to MP2,
 * gstreamer0.10-lame (not available in the Debian archive) to encode to MP3,
 * gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad (not available in Debian) to encode to AAC.
Página de inicio: http://www.burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer



un saludo,

noseasasi


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Re: Debian cd mp3

2011-07-29 Thread Raúl Armenta

2011/7/29, Raúl Armenta armenta.r...@gmail.com:
 El 29/07/11, co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu escribió:
 hola

 Hay algun programa en Debian squeeze que me permita crear CDs mp3???

 El brasero no tiene esa opcion ni k3b ni xfburn

 uso GNOME

 Salu2'
 Cosme


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  creo que el sound-juicer te servirá

 PcCasa / # aptitude show sound-juicer
 Paquete: sound-juicer
 Estado: sin instalar
 Versión: 2.32.0-1
 Prioridad: opcional
 Sección: universe/gnome
 Desarrollador: Ubuntu Developers ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com
 Tamaño sin comprimir: 5001 k
 Depende de: libatk1.0-0 (= 1.12.4), libbrasero-media1 (= 2.31.91),
 libc6 (= 2.7), libcanberra-gtk0 (= 0.2), libdbus-glib-1-2 (= 0.78),
 libgconf2-4
 (= 2.31.1), libglib2.0-0 (= 2.18.0), libgnome-media0,
 libgstreamer0.10-0 (= 0.10.15), libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.20.0),
 libmusicbrainz3-6 (=
 3.0.2), libpango1.0-0 (= 1.14.0), gconf2 (= 2.28.1-2),
 gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (= 0.10.20), gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
 Recomienda: eject
 Sugiere: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-lame,
 gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad, brasero
 Descripción: Codificador de CD de GNOME
  A CD ripper for GNOME which aims to have a simple, clean, easy to use
 interface.

  The package includes support by default for Vorbis and FLAC formats.
 For other supports you need the following packages:
  * gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly to encode to MP2,
  * gstreamer0.10-lame (not available in the Debian archive) to encode to
 MP3,
  * gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad (not available in Debian) to encode to
 AAC.
 Página de inicio: http://www.burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer



 un saludo,

 noseasasi

  Me doy cuenta que ahora no estoy en mi debian , pero también lo
encontrarás  ;-)

noseasasi


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Re: Debian cd mp3

2011-07-29 Thread Flako

El 29 de julio de 2011 12:30, co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu escribió:

 hola

 Hay algun programa en Debian squeeze que me permita crear CDs mp3???

 El brasero no tiene esa opcion ni k3b ni xfburn

 uso GNOME

 Salu2'
 Cosme


Como q k3b no tiene opcion?
creas un cd de datos y metes los mp3 ahi dentro..

Re: Debian cd mp3

2011-07-29 Thread Oscar Lopez

El 29 de julio de 2011 10:57, Flako subfo...@gmail.com escribió:

 El 29 de julio de 2011 12:30, co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu escribió:

 hola

 Hay algun programa en Debian squeeze que me permita crear CDs mp3???

 El brasero no tiene esa opcion ni k3b ni xfburn

 uso GNOME

 Salu2'
 Cosme

 Como q k3b no tiene opcion?
 creas un cd de datos y metes los mp3 ahi dentro..



una pregunta, a partir de que tipo de archivos quiere crear el CD de mp3

1.si es a partir de archivos mp3.
 Cualquier software tw servirá, creas un cd de datos y arrastras en el
raíz los archivos mp3, o a carpetas clasificadas, igual e reproductor
de mp3 los reconocerá.
Con esto lo puedes hacer con brasero o Kb3.

2. si es a partir de cds de audio normal, ahí si necesitas juicier
para extraer el audio y convertirlo a mp3 y luego hacer el
procedimiento del punto [ 1 ]

3. si están en otro formato Ogg, wav, Acc etc.  necesitas convertirlos
a mp3 y hace rl procedimiento del punto [ 1 ]

Saludos desde Bogotá Colombia
--
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   [ http://www.oscarlopez.tk/ ]
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Re: Debian cd mp3

2011-07-29 Thread Darío

El 29/07/11, co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu escribió:
 hola

 Hay algun programa en Debian squeeze que me permita crear CDs mp3???

 El brasero no tiene esa opcion ni k3b ni xfburn

 uso GNOME

 Salu2'
 Cosme


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Lo que querés hacer es crear un cd de datos con archivos .mp3, o a
partir de mp3 crear un cd de audio para escuchar en un equipo como si
fuese un cd pero con la calidad del mp3 claro? Si es alguna de las dos
opciones con brasero se puede hacer ambas.

-- 
Darío


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Re: Debian cd mp3

2011-07-29 Thread Carlos Zuniga

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Raúl Armenta armenta.r...@gmail.com wrote:
 El 29/07/11, co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu co...@esid.gecgr.co.cu escribió:
 hola

 Hay algun programa en Debian squeeze que me permita crear CDs mp3???

 El brasero no tiene esa opcion ni k3b ni xfburn

 uso GNOME

 Salu2'
 Cosme


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  creo que el sound-juicer te servirá

 PcCasa / # aptitude show sound-juicer
 Paquete: sound-juicer
 Estado: sin instalar
 Versión: 2.32.0-1
 Prioridad: opcional
 Sección: universe/gnome
 Desarrollador: Ubuntu Developers ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com
 Tamaño sin comprimir: 5001 k
 Depende de: libatk1.0-0 (= 1.12.4), libbrasero-media1 (= 2.31.91),
 libc6 (= 2.7), libcanberra-gtk0 (= 0.2), libdbus-glib-1-2 (= 0.78),
 libgconf2-4
            (= 2.31.1), libglib2.0-0 (= 2.18.0), libgnome-media0,
 libgstreamer0.10-0 (= 0.10.15), libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.20.0),
 libmusicbrainz3-6 (=
            3.0.2), libpango1.0-0 (= 1.14.0), gconf2 (= 2.28.1-2),
 gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (= 0.10.20), gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
 Recomienda: eject
 Sugiere: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-lame,
 gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad, brasero
 Descripción: Codificador de CD de GNOME
  A CD ripper for GNOME which aims to have a simple, clean, easy to use
 interface.

  The package includes support by default for Vorbis and FLAC formats.
 For other supports you need the following packages:
  * gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly to encode to MP2,
  * gstreamer0.10-lame (not available in the Debian archive) to encode to MP3,

Bueno aquí indica que el plugin para encodear a mp3 no se encuentra en
los repositorios de Debian (la razón, problemas de patentes).
Lo puedes encontrar en los repositorios de debian multimedia.

http://debian-multimedia.org/

Esto claro, si necesita encodear los archivos de audio a mp3.

Saludos
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A menudo unas pocas horas de Prueba y error podrán ahorrarte minutos
de leer manuales.


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Problem using debian-cd.

2010-10-20 Thread Magicloud Magiclouds

Hi,
  I am learning about relative tools, from trying to make a netinst CD.
  Well, I got the tools, and made the deb mirror. Edited the CONF.sh, then
$ . CONF.sh
$ make distclean
$ make status
Updating task files...
- copying task files from 'tasks/sid/'
- copying firwmare task file from 'tasks/firmware'
- task.languages: using 'tasks/sid/tasksel_d-i.languages'
- generating dynamic task files
gzip: /srv/mirror/debian/dists/sid/main/binary-/Packages.gz: No such
file or directory
make: *** [/srv/mirror/tmp/sid/tasks] Error 1
Seems like the ARCHES/$arch args were somehow wrong. What should I do?
-- 
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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

2010-09-14 Thread Brian Ryans

Quoting Kumar Appaiah on 2010-09-10 13:18:06, in Message-Id
20100910181805.gi13...@146653177.ece.utexas.edu

 If someone else can point our the right way, please do.

,[ /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00trustcdrom ]-
| APT::Authentication::TrustCDROM true;
`

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Description: Digital signature

How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

Hi.

I am using Debian CD images as a local repository. I am mounting a CD and
using it with this source list:

deb file:///mnt lenny main

Everything working fine but the problem is when I try to install a package
from this repository, apt is always warn me about untrusted repository.

Is it possible disable signature check for my CD location?


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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 02:22:19PM +0300, Onur Aslan wrote:
 I am using Debian CD images as a local repository. I am mounting a CD and
 using it with this source list:
 
 deb file:///mnt lenny main
 
 Everything working fine but the problem is when I try to install a package
 from this repository, apt is always warn me about untrusted repository.
 
 Is it possible disable signature check for my CD location?

Is there a particular reason why you don't want to use apt-cdrom to
use the CD repositories? It is much easier than mounting the CD to use
it.

In any case, to fix the error you get, you have to identify the GPG
key corresponding to the CD, and obtain it (preferably in a trusted
manner), and do

sudo apt-ket add -  key

Again, if apt-cdrom works, I would personally prefer that.

Thanks.

Kumar
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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 03:14:11PM +0300, Onur Aslan wrote:
  In any case, to fix the error you get, you have to identify the GPG
  key corresponding to the CD, and obtain it (preferably in a trusted
  manner), and do
  
  sudo apt-ket add -  key
 
 Where can I get this keys? CD images doesn't have signatures.

Please paste the error message here. It would contain the key ID.

Kumar
-- 
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be fun...
-- Linus Torvalds at the First Dutch International Symposium on 
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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 06:58:01AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
 Is there a particular reason why you don't want to use apt-cdrom to
 use the CD repositories? It is much easier than mounting the CD to use
 it.

I also tried apt-cdrom but I have same problem with apt-cdrom.

I added my image with:
apt-cdrom -m -d /mnt add

It's successfuly added but aptitude is showing packages as from
untrusted source.

 In any case, to fix the error you get, you have to identify the GPG
 key corresponding to the CD, and obtain it (preferably in a trusted
 manner), and do
 
 sudo apt-ket add -  key

Where can I get this keys? CD images doesn't have signatures.


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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 07:25:54AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
 Please paste the error message here. It would contain the key ID.

There is no error. Debian CD images doesn't have any signature or key.

Or maybe I am doing something wrong.

Also I want to add, I don't have any CD-ROM drive. I am using CD images,
after mount them to somewhere.


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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 03:36:03PM +0300, Onur Aslan wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 07:25:54AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
  Please paste the error message here. It would contain the key ID.
 
 There is no error. Debian CD images doesn't have any signature or key.

I see. I thought apt-get update would actually warn about the missing
keys; maybe I was wrong.

You could try looking for the Release.gpg file in your CD and trying
out this:

gpg --verify Release.gpg Release

That would tell you the keys which were used to sign the files. For
instance:

gpg: Signature made Sat 04 Sep 2010 12:30:28 PM CDT using RSA key ID 55BE302B
gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
gpg: Signature made Sat 04 Sep 2010 12:37:54 PM CDT using DSA key ID F42584E6
gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found

Please let me know if this helps.

Kumar


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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

Kumar thank you for your help.

But Debian is identify their CDs in a different way. I don't know how to
doing this. The repository in the images are not signed. When I use CD
images after burn them to a blank CD, Debian successfully identify cdroms.
But when I try to use them as images after mount them to somewhere,
Debian doesn't identify local repository as trusted.

Maybe it is not possible at all. I want to do this because I have only
first DVD image of Debian. When I need another package which I dont have
one, I am adding a ftp url to my sources.list. When I do this Debian
is using only this url because my local repository is untrusted.

In the early times, I was manually sign my local Release. Maybe I should
continue to do this.

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 08:49:32AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 03:36:03PM +0300, Onur Aslan wrote:
  On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 07:25:54AM -0500, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
   Please paste the error message here. It would contain the key ID.
  
  There is no error. Debian CD images doesn't have any signature or key.
 
 I see. I thought apt-get update would actually warn about the missing
 keys; maybe I was wrong.
 
 You could try looking for the Release.gpg file in your CD and trying
 out this:
 
 gpg --verify Release.gpg Release
 
 That would tell you the keys which were used to sign the files. For
 instance:
 
 gpg: Signature made Sat 04 Sep 2010 12:30:28 PM CDT using RSA key ID 55BE302B
 gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
 gpg: Signature made Sat 04 Sep 2010 12:37:54 PM CDT using DSA key ID F42584E6
 gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
 
 Please let me know if this helps.
 
 Kumar
 
 
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Re: How can I disable signature check for a Debian CD?

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 06:26:49PM +0300, Onur Aslan wrote:
 In the early times, I was manually sign my local Release. Maybe I should
 continue to do this.

Since I don't have any other ideas, I'd actually not be averse to
that. You could sign your repository yourself, with a key which APT is
aware of.

If someone else can point our the right way, please do.

Thanks.

Kumar
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(Unknown source)


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-30 Thread Sthu Deus

Thank You for Your time and answer, Robert:

 What was the reason for that? The usual plan is to put /home, at
 least, on a separate partition.

I've heard about diver strategies on FS dividing but like some kind
of optimization that is in FS view is this: the free space is
dynamically shared for all the needs (OS, app.s, users).

Actually, now I have divided it (and therefore got, partially ext4 FS!
:) though for execution reason (that is programs are separated from
data), yet the dynamics I have lost w/ it still does not make me quiet
happy.

OK. I have started another thread called Debian FS structure - as the
primary subject vanished away - if You would, please reply there.


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-30 Thread Sthu Deus

Thank You for Your time and answer, Sjoerd:

 The only exception of course is a 
 separate /boot to avoid boot problems.

May You'll be laughing but this did now work for me. - I had the boot
problems.


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-30 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman


Robert Holtzman schreef:

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:15:22AM +0200, Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:

Robert Holtzman schreef:

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 06:03:37PM -0500, Jordon Bedwell wrote:

On 7/28/10 4:40 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:

What was the reason for that? The usual plan is to put /home, at least,
on a separate partition.


The *usual* plan is to put it on a separate drive (but since debian
can't judge how smart a user is ~ they put it on the same drive
different partition) or if you use network storage, to keep it on
the same drive in the same partition.  Not everybody runs critical
systems or even stores anything in /home.  I know on my Debian
installs nothing is in /home/username.

Dandy *if* you have two drives. How many home users would that be?

Also, multiple partitions lose their usefulness for a single-user
linux machine. I do not run a mail server which justifies a separate
/var, ans since I can fill /usr or /etc just as well as /home,
there's no real reason to create multiple partitions. The only
exception of course is a separate /boot to avoid boot problems.


I disagree. The only time multiple partitions lose their usefulness is in
the event of a hard drive failure or massive power surge *and* there is no
backup. Otherwise /home on a separate partition allows the installation
of another OS without formatting /home. I've done this a number of times
and it works beautifully, allowing me to retain a number of
configuration scripts. 
Good point. Indeed also when you want to have multiple simultaneous 
installations sharing /home, you need it in a separate partition.
Anyway, for my debian laptop, I am not doing such fancy things, so 
putting everything in one big partition made sense to me.
@Sthu: As said, boot problems might be a reason for having a spare 
/boot. However, I managed to get grub2 working, which boots fine from my 
ext4 root partition.


Sjoerd



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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-29 Thread Robert Holtzman

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 06:03:37PM -0500, Jordon Bedwell wrote:
 On 7/28/10 4:40 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 
 What was the reason for that? The usual plan is to put /home, at least,
 on a separate partition.
 
 
 The *usual* plan is to put it on a separate drive (but since debian
 can't judge how smart a user is ~ they put it on the same drive
 different partition) or if you use network storage, to keep it on
 the same drive in the same partition.  Not everybody runs critical
 systems or even stores anything in /home.  I know on my Debian
 installs nothing is in /home/username.

Dandy *if* you have two drives. How many home users would that be?

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-29 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman


Robert Holtzman schreef:

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 06:03:37PM -0500, Jordon Bedwell wrote:

On 7/28/10 4:40 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:

What was the reason for that? The usual plan is to put /home, at least,
on a separate partition.


The *usual* plan is to put it on a separate drive (but since debian
can't judge how smart a user is ~ they put it on the same drive
different partition) or if you use network storage, to keep it on
the same drive in the same partition.  Not everybody runs critical
systems or even stores anything in /home.  I know on my Debian
installs nothing is in /home/username.


Dandy *if* you have two drives. How many home users would that be?
Also, multiple partitions lose their usefulness for a single-user linux 
machine. I do not run a mail server which justifies a separate /var, ans 
since I can fill /usr or /etc just as well as /home, there's no real 
reason to create multiple partitions. The only exception of course is a 
separate /boot to avoid boot problems.


Sjoerd




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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-29 Thread Perry E. Metzger

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:34:06 +0200 Aniruddha
mailingdotl...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Perry E. Metzger
 pe...@piermont.com wrote:
  On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:29 +0200 Aniruddha
  mailingdotl...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have done some testing with Debian stable in Virtualbox and I
  have to say XFS works as advertised. I did power off the virtual
  machine several times when working in Gnome / copying files. And
  I did power off the virtual 5 times in a row when booting.
  Nothing happened. Each time the virtual machine booted without
  problems.
 
  I have to say, file system creating and file system checking is
  lightning fast. I am very impressed. Next I'll test XFS on my
  laptop.
 
  Although I have no reason to believe that XFS is flawed, your
  test is not proof of that.
 
 Agreed, it was hardly a double-blind randomized trial :)

You make it sound like it was somehow useful if not entirely
rigorous. In fact, the exercise showed virtually nothing at all.

 On a more
 serious note: off course these tests don't prove anything. On the
 other hand I have heard  so many time that XFS can't handle a single
 power failure without data corruption that I wanted to see for
 myself what happens if you power off a pc.

And you haven't learned that even now, because virtual hardware does
not behave enough like real hardware. For example, the virtual
hardware does not simulate a modern disk cache at all, let alone the
behavior of such a cache on a true power cut, so you would not see
problems associated with the disk cache silently reordering writes
and then failing to complete all of them on power failure.

I would suggest avoiding making any pronouncements based on such
experiments. I have no reason to believe XFS has any problems at
all, but your test did not demonstrate anything of value. Although
most experienced users would dismiss your information as worthless,
you might convince some people with insufficient knowledge that you
had actually determined something and that they may make a decision on
the basis of your experiments.


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-29 Thread Robert Holtzman

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:15:22AM +0200, Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
 Robert Holtzman schreef:
 On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 06:03:37PM -0500, Jordon Bedwell wrote:
 On 7/28/10 4:40 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 What was the reason for that? The usual plan is to put /home, at least,
 on a separate partition.
 
 The *usual* plan is to put it on a separate drive (but since debian
 can't judge how smart a user is ~ they put it on the same drive
 different partition) or if you use network storage, to keep it on
 the same drive in the same partition.  Not everybody runs critical
 systems or even stores anything in /home.  I know on my Debian
 installs nothing is in /home/username.
 
 Dandy *if* you have two drives. How many home users would that be?
 Also, multiple partitions lose their usefulness for a single-user
 linux machine. I do not run a mail server which justifies a separate
 /var, ans since I can fill /usr or /etc just as well as /home,
 there's no real reason to create multiple partitions. The only
 exception of course is a separate /boot to avoid boot problems.

I disagree. The only time multiple partitions lose their usefulness is in
the event of a hard drive failure or massive power surge *and* there is no
backup. Otherwise /home on a separate partition allows the installation
of another OS without formatting /home. I've done this a number of times
and it works beautifully, allowing me to retain a number of
configuration scripts. 

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-28 Thread Klistvud


Dne, 28. 07. 2010 03:53:43 je Paul E Condon napisal(a):

Stan,

Have you ever heard of the term 'invincible ignorance'?


Also, you have asserted with some vigor upstream


Your original post ... IMHO, was correct but somewhat harshly worded.



Peace.


IMHO, Stan's deep, invaluable expertise is sometimes, regrettably,  
undermined by his own vigor and harshly worded attitudes; some  
people may be put off by his dismissive tone. I know I am. As is Volkan  
Yazici, if we may judge from one of his replies to Stan:



BTW, I still couldn't understand your temper and rudeness.


--
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Klistvud, one of the

unwashed mass of invincibly ignorant people


Certifiable Loonix User #481801
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-28 Thread Aniruddha

I have done some testing with Debian stable in Virtualbox and I have
to say XFS works as advertised. I did power off the virtual machine
several times when working in Gnome / copying files. And I did power
off the virtual 5 times in a row when booting. Nothing happened. Each
time the virtual machine booted without problems.

I have to say, file system creating and file system checking is
lightning fast. I am very impressed. Next I'll test XFS on my laptop.


dmesg
---
[5.182230]  sda: sda1 sda2
[5.183801] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI disk
[5.324028] PM: Starting manual resume from disk
[5.77] SGI XFS with ACLs, security attributes, realtime, large
block numbers, no debug enabled
[5.334413] SGI XFS Quota Management subsystem
[5.335916] XFS mounting filesystem sda2
[5.420162] Starting XFS recovery on filesystem: sda2 (logdev: internal)
[5.439531] Ending XFS recovery on filesystem: sda2 (logdev: internal)
[6.796197] udevd version 125 started



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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-28 Thread Sthu Deus

Stan:

 My apologies for being rude, but someone needed to slap you upside
 the head and bring you to reality.

For the future please note, any your farther talks will be
silently ignored by me.

PS Sorry for this being sent to whole the list.


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-28 Thread Sthu Deus

Thank You for Your time and answer, Wolodja:

 Using ext4 for /boot is discouraged but you can give it a try. Why do
 you need /boot to be ext4?

Because I have single partition. :)

Well. For now I have tried w/ two - /boot as ext3 and / as ext4 -
nothing happened - I got the into the same situation as I had before,
by simple converting of ext3 to ext4 - I got a statement at boot time
that / can not be mounted - no such device, while a message before
states, there is such an one.

PS I used the kmuto's work.


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-28 Thread Tom H

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Sthu Deus sthu.d...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank You for Your time and answer, Wolodja:

 Using ext4 for /boot is discouraged but you can give it a try. Why do
 you need /boot to be ext4?

 Because I have single partition. :)

 Well. For now I have tried w/ two - /boot as ext3 and / as ext4 -
 nothing happened - I got the into the same situation as I had before,
 by simple converting of ext3 to ext4 - I got a statement at boot time
 that / can not be mounted - no such device, while a message before
 states, there is such an one.

 PS I used the kmuto's work.

If /boot is an ext4 filesystem, grub1/grub-legacy will not be able to access it.


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-28 Thread Stan Hoeppner

Paul E Condon put forth on 7/27/2010 8:53 PM:

 Your original post in this thread addressed a quite disfunctional
 attitude of OP, and IMHO, was correct but somewhat harshly worded.
 In truth, he simply cannot have everything he wants all at the 
 same time. You should have left it at that, IMHO. 

Words of wisdom, you speak.  Retired from this thread, I have.  Let go of
harsh wording, I shall.  :)

-- 
Stan


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-28 Thread Perry E. Metzger

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:29 +0200 Aniruddha
mailingdotl...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have done some testing with Debian stable in Virtualbox and I have
 to say XFS works as advertised. I did power off the virtual machine
 several times when working in Gnome / copying files. And I did power
 off the virtual 5 times in a row when booting. Nothing happened.
 Each time the virtual machine booted without problems.
 
 I have to say, file system creating and file system checking is
 lightning fast. I am very impressed. Next I'll test XFS on my
 laptop.

Although I have no reason to believe that XFS is flawed, your test is
not proof of that.

Most journaling and similar bugs are found only in rare conditions.
You would need to conduct your test hundreds of thousands of times,
under a variety of conditions, including differing hardware cache
reorder policies, differing file system loads, differing numbers
of concurrent processes within the kernel code paths, etc.

Real torture tests done by people trying to nail down bugs often
involve millions of iterations in randomized test harnesses. Five
tests is hardly enough to find even common bugs.

If a test like the one you conducted were meaningful, the jobs of
systems programmers would be much simpler. We could just try
something a couple of times by hand and we would know if our code was
flawless. Sadly, the world does not work that way.

-- 
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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-28 Thread Aniruddha

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Perry E. Metzger pe...@piermont.com wrote:
 On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:29 +0200 Aniruddha
 mailingdotl...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have done some testing with Debian stable in Virtualbox and I have
 to say XFS works as advertised. I did power off the virtual machine
 several times when working in Gnome / copying files. And I did power
 off the virtual 5 times in a row when booting. Nothing happened.
 Each time the virtual machine booted without problems.

 I have to say, file system creating and file system checking is
 lightning fast. I am very impressed. Next I'll test XFS on my
 laptop.

 Although I have no reason to believe that XFS is flawed, your test is
 not proof of that.

Agreed, it was hardly a double-blind randomized trial :) On a more
serious note: off course these tests don't prove anything. On the
other hand I have heard  so many time that XFS can't handle a single
power failure without data corruption that I wanted to see for myself
what happens if you power off a pc. with an XFS filesystem. Apparently
not much. There might other problems hidden with XFS,just like ext3 (
when copy pasting a home directory to another location I once lost the
whole directory due data corruption on ext3).


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-28 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman

Op 28-07-10 21:34, Aniruddha schreef:
 Agreed, it was hardly a double-blind randomized trial :) On a more
 serious note: off course these tests don't prove anything. On the
 other hand I have heard  so many time that XFS can't handle a single
 power failure without data corruption that I wanted to see for myself
 what happens if you power off a pc. with an XFS filesystem. Apparently
 not much. There might other problems hidden with XFS,just like ext3 (
 when copy pasting a home directory to another location I once lost the
 whole directory due data corruption on ext3).
As with all research, showing that something does not fail is
notoriously hard. Showing that something fails given a specified set of
circumstances, on the other hand, is dead easy.
Yes, you did show that a poweroff does not destroy data. By the way,
were you writing data? I think there's no filesystem that *can* fail
when data is only being read, sort of hard disk failure of course...

Sjoerd



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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-28 Thread Robert Holtzman

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 09:43:59PM +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:
 Thank You for Your time and answer, Wolodja:
 
  Using ext4 for /boot is discouraged but you can give it a try. Why do
  you need /boot to be ext4?
 
 Because I have single partition. :)

What was the reason for that? The usual plan is to put /home, at least,
on a separate partition.

-- 
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Key ID: 8D549279
If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer


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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

2010-07-28 Thread Jordon Bedwell


On 7/28/10 4:40 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 09:43:59PM +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:

Thank You for Your time and answer, Wolodja:


Using ext4 for /boot is discouraged but you can give it a try. Why do
you need /boot to be ext4?


Because I have single partition. :)


What was the reason for that? The usual plan is to put /home, at least,
on a separate partition.



The *usual* plan is to put it on a separate drive (but since debian 
can't judge how smart a user is ~ they put it on the same drive 
different partition) or if you use network storage, to keep it on the 
same drive in the same partition.  Not everybody runs critical systems 
or even stores anything in /home.  I know on my Debian installs nothing 
is in /home/username.



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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-28 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

On Tuesday 27 July 2010 15:09:08 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 Volkan YAZICI put forth on 7/27/2010 2:04 PM:
  unplugged machine. At boot, I dropped to fsck command line. At command
 
 Were you forced to the command line or did you manually select to go to the
 command line?  It sounds like you chose to, not forced to.
 
  prompt, I manually fiddled around with fsck of xfs to recover the
  unmounted / filesystem, but had no luck.
 
 Did you read the xfs documentation before embarking on this power loss
 experiment?  Or did you it should just work regardless of your actions,
 or lack of action?  It sounds like you ran xfs_repair on a filesystem in
 an inconsistent state and forced changes, which is a no-no.
 
 (I also tried recommendations
 
  and informative messages supplied by manpages and command
  outputs/warnings.) Also if you would Google, it shouldn't be hard to
  spot similar experiences from other people.
 
 I'm guessing most of them didn't look before taking the XFS leap.
 
  At NASA, they might have genius technicians; but, IMHO a majority of the
  linux users would want a filesystem to recover without a prompt from the
  user.
 
 So the system wouldn't boot and you were dropped to a prompt.  You manually
 fiddled around with fsck of xfs and made no progress.  It would be nice to
 have seen all of that at the time.
 
 What were your results when you did this same power yank test with ext2/3,
 ReiserFS, and the other filesystems you tested in this way?
 
  I'm basically a one man army trying to defeat misinformation WRT XFS
  and attempt to educate ppl with the correct information.
  
  I am glad -users ml have you; and I'd be really, really appreaciated if
  somebody having experience and knowledge on fs issues can shed some
  light to our ignorance. I also support the replacement of default fs
  with something that is much more recent. From this point of view, XFS is
  a superior alternative. You are totally right with your claims about its
  advantages over other alternatives. But as you can see, people still
  complain about XFS's sensitivity to power failures. Assuming a majority
  of your users aren't behind a UPS, you can sell/ship your product with
  such a default filesystem choice. But as you said, there are no
  published concrete benchmarks about this issue. It is all what people
  claim in the mailing lists. If you would share some of your findings
  about Power Failures and XFS to convince us, I'm sure most of us will
  be happy to advocate XFS's this achievement.
 
 I've tried to dig up accurate accounts of the power loss corruption issue
 post 2007 (when it was supposed to have been fixed) a few times but
 couldn't find anything concrete enough to be worth referencing.  I freely
 admit I've done no power loss testing of XFS myself.  This probably has to
 do with the fact that I'm a firm believer in orderly shutdowns and
 redundant power, and that I don't really have any test systems available. 
 I'll ask around on the XFS list and see what folks have to say.
 
 I'm somewhat interested in seeing where BTRFS is in 2-3 years.  It may be
 stable enough for production by then, and should be as fast or faster than
 XFS on some workloads.  Maybe it'll even handle sudden power loss
 gracefully. :)

I've been using btrfs for my / file system for a few months now on my 
laptop.  Toward the beginning I did suffer some dpkg database corruption due 
to a dpkg bug[1] which is now fixed in testing.

It has handled sudden power failure, kernel hangs, suspend/resume to 
disk/memory, all gracefully.  I am a bit concerned that there is no fsck.btrfs 
that will run at boot time, yet.  However, that is less of an issue than it 
would be with other file systems since I can do online fsck and 
defragmentation.  (Reminder to self: Write cron jobs.)

I still would not advocate it in a critical production environment.  My tests 
haven't been conclusive.  The various user-space tools feel immateure and 
poorly documented.  If it continues to improve, and does not hit any 
significant roadblocks, it may be ready for production around the Squeeze+1 
release.

My production systems still use ext3 file systems, but that is because they 
are simply VPS slices, so their initial installation is done automatically 
by my provider.  Were I do be doing the initial installation myself, I would 
likely choose XFS.

[1] dpkg made some assumptions about file system behavior when traversing a 
directory and renaming files in that directory.  Those assumptions were not 
guaranteed by the POSIX / SUS specifications or the LSB.  Btrfs violates those 
assumptions.  So, while the bug was in dpkg, only using dpkg on top of Btrfs 
showed the bug.
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Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.

Sthu Deus put forth on 7/26/2010 6:00 AM:
 Thank You for Your time and answer, Wolodja:
 
 Why don't you just use the images provided by kmuto? They are exactly
 what you are looking for. I don't get your resistence ...
 
 No any resistance absolutely! I think too that it is the thing I'm
 looking for. Just two important things remain for me w/ the solution:
 
 1. If it is trustable/secure as the stable Debian (for for now all I
 have is just phrases like believe me w/ no any farther approval from
 the Debian project). In other words and including of all I have on that
 item is this: I can not make strong relationship of the author's work w/
 the Debian project - I have been told he is one of the developers but,
 searching for any info on him at the debian.org or a list of
 developers - was unsuccessful for me. So, I even can not check the fact
 as if he is still the Debian developer. Also, I do not know the Debian
 project developers opinion|accreditation on his this work (the CDs he
 makes).
 
 2. I see that I still will need probably, to have /boot at ext3 - the
 thing I do not want, so I want to know a lot on this before I try to
 have ext4 again.

I've really been pondering the irony of your desires WRT ext4 this entire
thread.  The irony is:

1.  You're willing to possibly sacrifice your data to an unproven FS
2.  Yet, you're totally paranoid against an installation CD that isn't
official which will allow you to achieve [1].

News flash:  ext4 isn't Official Debian yet either.

Frankly I'm surprised people have continued to assist you, given that you
resist and fight their recommendations at every turn.

Let's see.  Applicable American phrases that come to mind:

1.  You can't have it both ways
2.  You can't have your cake and eat it too
3.  ...

You're not going to get any assurances.  No official-ness.  You are
deliberately trying to do something outside of the official Debian Stable
distribution.  Why can you not get this through your thick skull?!?!  At least
a half dozen people have told you the same thing.

Now shut up and do what has been recommended, or use use ext3, or better yet,
XFS which is superior to all other Linux filesystems.

My apologies for being rude, but someone needed to slap you upside the head
and bring you to reality.

-- 
Stan


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Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Lisi

On Tuesday 27 July 2010 08:10:15 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 XFS which is superior to all other Linux filesystems.

Stan - 

Have you the time to give a rationale for this?  

I'm not in any way impugning your knowledge.  But I am at the stage of 
accepting the default that Lenny gives me, for no better reason than that the 
developers chose it and it is there.  It is time I understood better the 
reasons for each file system.  (I gave up Reiserfs because Reiser murdered 
his wife - hardly a logical measure of how good his filesystem is!!)

Lisi


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

Lisi put forth on 7/27/2010 2:23 AM:
 On Tuesday 27 July 2010 08:10:15 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 XFS which is superior to all other Linux filesystems.
 
 Stan - 
 
 Have you the time to give a rationale for this?

Sure.

1. Best overall performance for most systems, large and small, and the FS
creation and mounting parameters are super configurable to match the system
hardware for best performance.  One recent set of recent benchmarks
demonstrating so:
http://btrfs.boxacle.net/repository/raid/2010-04-14_2004/2.6.34-rc3/2.6.34-rc3.html

man mkfs.xfs
man mount

Older benchmarks:
http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/388
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1479435

In regard to this last benchmark, some(many?) of the default XFS filesystem
creation parameters and mounting parameters have changed.  Note the testing
was performed in 2005.  A lot changes in 5 years.  Read all you can and ask
questions on the XFS mailing list before tweaking parameters based on what you
find in old forum posts and benchmarks such as this.

Guaranteed Rate I/O for streaming and other critical applications--unique to
XFS amongst all filesytems, ever, not just on Linux--this feature was born on
IRIX XFS for the broadcasting industry where video stutter was basically death
to a TV station or network such as CNN, CBS, etc.  This single feature from
SGI allowed broadcast media to wholesale convert from tape to disk (this and
SGI FC storage arrays)

2. Commercial origin and backing.  SGI is a fantastic technology compay:
http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/

3. Maturity/history/longevity, IRIX birth in 1993, Linux birth 2001, included
in mainline in late 2003:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFS
http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernelm=107088371607817w=2

4. Equal/superior user space toolset:
xfsprogs - includes online defragmentation tool xfs_fsr and online growth tool
xfs_growfs.  No other stable Linux FS has an online defragmenter.  Ext4 has
e4defrag but AFAIK it's not complete nor close to maturity or stability.
xfs_fsr has been both for a decade.

5. Very active developer community and thorough documentation:
http://xfs.org/index.php/Main_Page

 I'm not in any way impugning your knowledge.  But I am at the stage of 
 accepting the default that Lenny gives me, for no better reason than that the 
 developers chose it and it is there.  It is time I understood better the 
 reasons for each file system.  (I gave up Reiserfs because Reiser murdered 
 his wife - hardly a logical measure of how good his filesystem is!!)

Debian will _always_ default to an EXT* filesystem--until the end of time.
Then again, I thought the same of LILO, so what do I know eh?  But expert
install mode allows you whatever you want.  I never cared for ReiserFS and
never used it.  Hans actions are just further justification after the fact.

I've only used XFS on servers.  I've never used it on laptops or desktops.  I
know of many people who have, but they are die hard propeller heads and know
how to fix anything if/when it breaks.  If you want to run XFS on a laptop or
desktop, especially on Debian, your only downside is going to be getting quick
help, if you get jammed, from folks on this list, or the community in general.
 That process will probably not be as quick and fruitful as with EXT2/3
issues, simply because there are a lot less people using XFS, thus the pool of
helpers is much smaller.

If you're adventurous, take XFS for a spin.  Partition a 100MB /boot and
install everything else on a big partition running XFS.  And, learn the
utility set, and learn about XFS, just as you have (or should have) with
EXT2/3 and ReiserFS.  As always, knowledge is power.

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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Kelly Clowers

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:51, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote:

 Debian will _always_ default to an EXT* filesystem--until the end of time.

Nope, btrfs will replace ext3/4 as default soon enough.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Volkan YAZICI

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com writes:
1. Best overall performance for most systems, large and small, and the FS
creation and mounting parameters are super configurable to match the system
hardware for best performance. One recent set of recent benchmarks
demonstrating so:
http://btrfs.boxacle.net/repository/raid/2010-04-14_2004/2.6.34-rc3/2.6.34-rc3.html

man mkfs.xfs
man mount

Older benchmarks:
http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/388
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1479435

In regard to this last benchmark, some(many?) of the default XFS filesystem
creation parameters and mounting parameters have changed. Note the testing
was performed in 2005. A lot changes in 5 years. Read all you can and ask
questions on the XFS mailing list before tweaking parameters based on what you
find in old forum posts and benchmarks such as this.

Guaranteed Rate I/O for streaming and other critical applications--unique to
XFS amongst all filesytems, ever, not just on Linux--this feature was born on
IRIX XFS for the broadcasting industry where video stutter was basically death
to a TV station or network such as CNN, CBS, etc. This single feature from
SGI allowed broadcast media to wholesale convert from tape to disk (this and
SGI FC storage arrays)

2. Commercial origin and backing. SGI is a fantastic technology compay:
http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/

3. Maturity/history/longevity, IRIX birth in 1993, Linux birth 2001, included
in mainline in late 2003:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFS
http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernelm=107088371607817w=2

4. Equal/superior user space toolset:
xfsprogs - includes online defragmentation tool xfs_fsr and online growth tool
xfs_growfs. No other stable Linux FS has an online defragmenter. Ext4 has
e4defrag but AFAIK it's not complete nor close to maturity or stability.
xfs_fsr has been both for a decade.

5. Very active developer community and thorough documentation:
http://xfs.org/index.php/Main_Page

You are missing a very important point: Durability to power failures.
(Excuse me, but a majority of GNU/Linux users are not switched to a UPS
or something.) And that's where XFS totally fails[1][2]. And considering
my personal experiences, reiserfs is the fastest fs (among ext3 and xfs)
in terms of boot recovery phase times.

Regards.

[1] http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2008-11/msg00097.html
[2]
http://xfs.org/index.php/XFS_FAQ#Q:_Why_do_I_see_binary_NULLS_in_some_files_after_recovery_when_I_unplugged_the_power.3F

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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Aniruddha

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Volkan YAZICI yazic...@ttmail.com wrote:


 You are missing a very important point: Durability to power failures.
 (Excuse me, but a majority of GNU/Linux users are not switched to a UPS
 or something.) And that's where XFS totally fails[1][2].


Ext3 has the same problems when not properly configured:

Ext3 does not do checksumming when writing to the journal. If barrier=1 is
not enabled as a mount option (in /etc/fstab), and if the hardware is doing
out-of-order write caching, one runs the risk of severe filesystem
corruption during a crash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext3#No_checksumming_in_journal

For the record I use ext3, I remember XFS as not being reliable enough
(with power failures etc).

Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Aaron Toponce

On 7/27/2010 1:23 AM, Lisi wrote:
 On Tuesday 27 July 2010 08:10:15 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 XFS which is superior to all other Linux filesystems.
 
 Stan - 
 
 Have you the time to give a rationale for this?  

Except XFS filesystems can't shrink, only grow. Sucks when you need to
resize partitions/volumes, and they're all XFS.

Further, XFS makes more system calls to the kernel than standard
Ext2/3/4. Export an XFS filesystem on LVM over NFS, and you'll get a
kernel oops on a 32-bit kernel. Trace it, and you'll see the plethora of
nested system calls XFS makes. You won't oops with Ext2/3/4 in the same
scenario. This can be mitigated by running a 64-bit system, if you have
the hardware to do so.

XFS has also had a history for randomly corrupting data. While this
might have improved over time, I don't trust it.

XFS does have dynamic inode allocation, and better data storage
algorithms than the Ext-family. It's also a good performer, but Ext4
give XFS a run for its money.

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. . O   . O O   O . O   . O O   . . O
O O O   . O .   . O O   O O .   O O O



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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

Volkan YAZICI put forth on 7/27/2010 8:22 AM:

You are missing a very important point: Durability to power failures.
(Excuse me, but a majority of GNU/Linux users are not switched to a UPS
or something.) And that's where XFS totally fails[1][2].

[1] http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2008-11/msg00097.html

1. Never quote forum or email posts as empirical or reliable evidence of
anything. They are opinion, unless they quote fact from reliable sources to
back that opinion (which I did in my original post). There are of course
exceptions to this rule of thumb, the main one being when the post is made by
a developer who is a recognized authority on the piece of software being
discussed. In the case of XFS this would be Dave Chinner, Alex Elder, Eric
Sandeen, Christoph Hellwig, and others. In the case of EXT2/3/4 this would be
Ted Tso, who happens, BTW, to work hand in hand with the XFS developers
because they rely on each others patches to other parts of the Linux kernel.
Not the last two entries:
https://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/linux-fsdevel/2010/7/16/expand

In the case of Postfix this would be Wietse Venema and Viktor Duchovni. In
the case of Linux this would be Linus Torvalds, Marcelo Tosatti, Alan Cox,
Andrew Morton and others. Etc.

2. If you are going to quote opinions from unreliable sources, at least read
the entire thread before quoting it. In this case, again, your source
contradicts what you state, and then, oddly, himself:

PS. Apparently they've improved some power-failure problems with XFS
since I used it, but then they also said that *before* I started using
it so I can't say I'd put any trust in that.

Aneurin Price admits he is aware of new changes that fix the problem, but then
discounts the fact and gives an anecdotal story as to why the fix isn't really
a fix.

[2]
http://xfs.org/index.php/XFS_FAQ#Q:_Why_do_I_see_binary_NULLS_in_some_files_after_recovery_when_I_unplugged_the_power.3F

You didn't even read the information you linked to, which contradicts what you
state: The fix for this issue has been in mainline since May 2007, over 3
years ago.

Q: Why do I see binary NULLS in some files after recovery when I unplugged
the power?

Update: This issue has been addressed with a CVS fix on the 29th March 2007
and merged into mainline on 8th May 2007 for 2.6.22-rc1.

And considering
my personal experiences, reiserfs is the fastest fs (among ext3 and xfs)
in terms of boot recovery phase times.

So, given that XFS recovery of any size filesystem is less than one second,
reiserfs recovery is so much less than 1 second that you notice the
difference? From:
http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/623661/XFS-Its-worth-the-wait.htm

XFS also provides file system journaling. This means that XFS uses database
recovery techniques to recover a consistent file system state after a system
crash. Using journaling, XFS is able to accomplish this recovery in under a
second, regardless of the file system size.

[1] http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2008-11/msg00097.html

Here you quoted misinformation, because the opinions were based on experience
the OPs had with the software before it was patched to fix the problem, i.e.
more than 3 years ago. You treated this as empirical evidence in your
argument against XFS. I have shown this to be incorrect.

[2]
http://xfs.org/index.php/XFS_FAQ#Q:_Why_do_I_see_binary_NULLS_in_some_files_after_recovery_when_I_unplugged_the_power.3F

You quoted this FAQ item solely based on the tile, without reading it, in your
effort to denounce XFS. The article clearly states the problem was fixed over
3 years ago, which you conveniently ignored.

From now on, please get your facts straight, with proper documentation, before
trying to denounce a fantastic piece of FOSS into which many top-of-their-game
kernel engineers have put tens of thousands of man hours, striving to make it
the best it can be--and are wildly succeeding.

Join the xfs mailing list and you might learn something useful in place of
this trash you're talking about it. Better yet, read what Hans Reiser had to
say about XFS. He was totally enamored with it, and wanted to duplicate many
of its features:

http://www.osnews.com/story/69

Hans Reiser:
XFS is an excellent file system, and there is an important area where XFS is
higher performance than we are...ReiserFS does a complete tree traversal for
every 4k block it writes, and then it inserts one pointer at a time into the
tree, which means that every 4k write incurs the overhead of a balancing of
the tree (which means it moves data around). For this reason, XFS has better
very large file performance...If you want to stream multi-media data for
Hollywood style applications, or use ACLs now rather than wait for Reiser4,
you might want to use XFS.

This is an area we are still experimenting with. We currently do what ext2
does, and preallocate blocks. What XFS does is much better, they

Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Lisi

On Tuesday 27 July 2010 09:51:53 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 Lisi put forth on 7/27/2010 2:23 AM:
  On Tuesday 27 July 2010 08:10:15 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
  XFS which is superior to all other Linux filesystems.
 
  Stan -
 
  Have you the time to give a rationale for this?

 Sure.

Thanks, Stan, for a lucid and erudite exposition.  Much appreciated.

Lisi


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Aniruddha

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.comwrote:

 Volkan YAZICI put forth on 7/27/2010 8:22 AM:

  You are missing a very important point: Durability to power failures.
  (Excuse me, but a majority of GNU/Linux users are not switched to a UPS
  or something.) And that's where XFS totally fails[1][2].

  [1]
 http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2008-11/msg00097.html

 

  a fantastic piece of FOSS into which many top-of-their-game
 kernel engineers have put tens of thousands of man hours, striving to make
 it
 the best it can be--and are wildly succeeding.

 That's was very informative, thanks. You got me curious and I will test XFS
on my home system. To be honest I am still  little wary of using XFS in a
production environment. For years now I have heard stories of power failures
with catastrophic results when using XFS. Anyone who using XFS in
a mission critical production environment? Anyone has experience with that?

Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

Aaron Toponce put forth on 7/27/2010 10:41 AM:

 XFS has also had a history for randomly corrupting data. While this
 might have improved over time, I don't trust it.

Can you cite or reference anything to back your claim?  Time frame?  Irix or
Linux?  Serious users reported this or casual/hobbyist users?  If this was
ever the case the situation could not have lasted long before patches fixed
it.  Have you seen SGI's customer list and the size of the systems and storage
they run with nothing but XFS?  For instance, NAS has over 1.4PB of XFS
filesystems, 1PB CXFS and over 400TB XFS:

http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Resources/Systems/columbia.html
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Resources/Systems/archive_storage.html

NASA trusts it with over 1PB of storage, but _you_ don't trust it?  Who are
you again?  How many hundreds of TB of storage do you manage on EXT3/4? ;)

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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Volkan YAZICI

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com writes:
 Volkan YAZICI put forth on 7/27/2010 8:22 AM:
 1.  Never quote forum or email posts as empirical or reliable evidence of
 anything.

You're right, my bad.

 You quoted this FAQ item solely based on the tile, without reading it,
 in your effort to denounce XFS. The article clearly states the problem
 was fixed over 3 years ago, which you conveniently ignored.

I read the very same sentence, but AFAIK, default kernel for xfs bundled
with lenny doesn't have that fix.

 From now on, please get your facts straight, with proper
 documentation, before trying to denounce a fantastic piece of FOSS
 into which many top-of-their-game kernel engineers have put tens of
 thousands of man hours, striving to make it the best it can be--and
 are wildly succeeding.

 Join the xfs mailing list and you might learn something useful in
 place of this trash you're talking about it.

About a year ago, in a similar rush to yours, I ported two of our
PostgreSQL database servers to XFS. During testing period, I even
couldn't *recover* the / fs after the very first power failure test.
Whole testing period took 1 week and the result was negative. This is my
experience with XFS, and not much more thrash than your technical
knowledge. And instead of being a technology zealot, you'd be better put
forward some real world case scenarios. Try unplugging your xfs machineS
that many timeS, and let's discuss this topic again. Yep, my findings
might be deprecated, but I don't know any others investigating the same
subject with recent versions.

BTW, I still couldn't understand your temper and rudeness. I just share
my experience, and try it, it works.


Regards.


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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]

2010-07-27 Thread Aaron Toponce

On 7/27/2010 11:20 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
 Aaron Toponce put forth on 7/27/2010 10:41 AM:
 
 XFS has also had a history for randomly corrupting data. While this
 might have improved over time, I don't trust it.
 
 Can you cite or reference anything to back your claim?  Time frame?  Irix or
 Linux?  Serious users reported this or casual/hobbyist users?  If this was
 ever the case the situation could not have lasted long before patches fixed
 it.  Have you seen SGI's customer list and the size of the systems and storage
 they run with nothing but XFS?  For instance, NAS has over 1.4PB of XFS
 filesystems, 1PB CXFS and over 400TB XFS:

We have used it three times in the past, and lost about 5TB worth of
data due to corruption. The data corruption appeared to not be the
result of lost power to the drive. Imperical evidence is enough for me
to stop trusting it.

I've also had friends who are admins that have complained of XFS data
corruption, mainly with regards to booting. I don't know their specific
scenarios, but they stopped using XFS as well.

 NASA trusts it with over 1PB of storage, but _you_ don't trust it?  Who are
 you again?  How many hundreds of TB of storage do you manage on EXT3/4? ;)

I guess NASA has us beat.  Nothing in the PB range, that's for sure.

Currently, at my location, we have about 40 TB of SAN, with another 50
TB on the way. In production, we have about 200 TB SAN. We'll be
building a federated shadowing infrastructure that well have Oracle
databases in 16 different locations across the United States. We're
currently targeting about 20 TB in each of the 16 locations.

We won't be deploying XFS.

-- 
. O .   O . O   . . O   O . .   . O .
. . O   . O O   O . O   . O O   . . O
O O O   . O .   . O O   O O .   O O O



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Re: Linux filesystems was [Re: Debian cd supporting ext4.]