Re: getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 02:00:09PM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 08:18:54AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:

> > I found that /etc/apt/preferences/systemd has these two lines:
> > 
> >   package systemd: *systemd*
> >   Pin: origin ""\Pin-Priority: -1
> > 
> > This looked suspicious and so removed the backslash and put
> > "Pin-Priority: -1" on next line. Off hand, that seemed to have fixed the
> > problem.
> 
> Yes, this looks strange indeed. Like an incomplete quoting which
> shouldn't have been there in the first place.
> 
> Where did you get that from?

Not sure what you are asking, but searched on line and found an example
of the file without the strange syntax.

I should mention that before trying to install pulseaudio and
pauvcontrol (and perhaps after installing skype:i386 on my AMD64?) I was
getting warnings rather than errors. When the warning became an error, I
could no longer ignore it.

I installed the skype:i386 by downloading the i386.deb, and then doing:

  # dpkg --add-architecture i386

  I needed libpulse0:i386. I updated and then installed the .deb I had
  downloaded.

I wonder if this somehow garbled the systemd file.


Haines

Re: getting sound in Sid

[tomas]

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On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 08:18:54AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:10:51PM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 03:26:55PM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > Aptitude install does not list it as a requirement, but when I go to
> > > install either pulseaudio or pavucontrol it says the following NEW
> > > packages will be installed [...]
> > 
> > Perhaps your apt is installing recommended packages [...]

> I apologize for my ignorance.

C'mon, no need for that. That's what this list is for, after all. Glad
it was the right hunch :-)

> However, I mention a hiccup in case someone might find it of
> interest. The installation of pavucontrol said it would remove
> aptitude. I let it do that, figuring I could always recover it with
> apt-get. But as the result both apt-get and aptitude stopped
> working. When I try:
> 
>   $ aptitude -R install pulseaudio
>   E: No priority (or zero) specified for pin
> 
> I found that /etc/apt/preferences/systemd has these two lines:
> 
>   package systemd: *systemd*
>   Pin: origin ""\Pin-Priority: -1
> 
> This looked suspicious and so removed the backslash and put
> "Pin-Priority: -1" on next line. Off hand, that seemed to have fixed the
> problem.

Yes, this looks strange indeed. Like an incomplete quoting which
shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Where did you get that from?

regards
- -- t
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Re: getting sound in Sid

[Stefan Monnier]

> I apologize for my ignorance. I didn't realize that aptitude would
> install recommended packages

Indeed.  I put

Aptitude::Recommends-Important "False";

in my /etc/apt/apt.conf years ago and never looked back.


Stefan

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:10:51PM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 03:26:55PM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Aptitude install does not list it as a requirement, but when I go to
> > install either pulseaudio or pavucontrol it says the following NEW
> > packages will be installed [...]
> 
> Perhaps your apt is installing recommended packages (instead of just
> required?) You can test it by giving the option --no-recommends to
> aptitude (short: -R).

I apologize for my ignorance. I didn't realize that aptitude would
install recommended packages or that I could use the -R option to avoid
it. Following your suggestion, I succeeded in installing pavucontrol and
pulseaudio without systemd. I thank you.

However, I mention a hiccup in case someone might find it of
interest. The installation of pavucontrol said it would remove
aptitude. I let it do that, figuring I could always recover it with
apt-get. But as the result both apt-get and aptitude stopped
working. When I try:

  $ aptitude -R install pulseaudio
  E: No priority (or zero) specified for pin

I found that /etc/apt/preferences/systemd has these two lines:

  package systemd: *systemd*
  Pin: origin ""\Pin-Priority: -1

This looked suspicious and so removed the backslash and put
"Pin-Priority: -1" on next line. Off hand, that seemed to have fixed the
problem.

Haines

Re: getting sound in Sid

[tomas]

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On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 02:00:09PM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 08:18:54AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> 
> > > I found that /etc/apt/preferences/systemd has these two lines:
> > > 
> > >   package systemd: *systemd*
> > >   Pin: origin ""\Pin-Priority: -1
> > > 
> > > This looked suspicious and so removed the backslash and put
> > > "Pin-Priority: -1" on next line. Off hand, that seemed to have fixed the
> > > problem.
> > 
> > Yes, this looks strange indeed. Like an incomplete quoting which
> > shouldn't have been there in the first place.
> > 
> > Where did you get that from?
> 
> Not sure what you are asking, but searched on line and found an example
> of the file without the strange syntax.

Yes, that was basically my question. As for how this slipped into your
configuration file... seems a mystery.

regards
- -- t
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Re: getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

Well, I was too overconfident, I make sure pulseaudio auto-spans: 

$ cat /etc/pulse/client.conf | grep autospawn  $
; autospawn = yes

I do:

$ pulseaudio

  It says service unkown; ConsoleKit did not provide any .service
  files. Failed to load module module-console-kit.

  I gather that module-console-kit is a module provided by pulseaudio
  and is needed if I'm not running systemd. I do:

$ ls /usr/lib/pulse-7.1/modules/module-console-kit

  and there is no module-console-kit.so file there. I look at what
  pulseaudio requires and recommends, and don't see it. I reinstalled
  pulseaudio.

  Recommended is pulseaudio-module-x11. I thought it would be harmless
  to install it, for I failed to understand its function.

# aptitude install pulseaudio-module-x11
...
E: Failed to fetch http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main \
  pulseaudio\pulseaudio-module-x11_7.1.2_amd64.deb: Temporary
  failure resolving ftp.us.debian.org. 

This seems a long-term problem with ftp.us.debian.org, and since
installation of pulseaudio-module-x11 is probably irrelevant. I did not
take the time off from work to try a different repository.

Haines

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 08:30:32AM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> Haines Brown wrote:
> 
> > 
> > However, Skype's audio breaks up and video is terrible, which
> > is why I'm trying to set Skype up on my Sid laptop.
> 
> Are you sue that the wheezy system is responsible for that braking up?
> And why would you go to Sid and not to jessie which is stable?

I didn't mean to imply that Wheezy responsible. Poor performance could
be for any number of reasons.

For some reason I always ran Sid on laptops and stable on desktops. Why
I have not updated my desktop to Jessie is a different issue.

Re: getting sound in Sid

[deloptes]

Haines Brown wrote:

> 
> On my desktop, I'm running Debian Wheezy and Skype 4.3.0.37-1. I
> installed pulseaudio and pavucontrol, and after some fiddling got Skype
> working. The absence of systemd on this machine causes no problems,
> although I see that libsystemd-daemon0 and libsystemd-login0 are
> installed. However, Skype's audio breaks up and video is terrible, which
> is why I'm trying to set Skype up on my Sid laptop.

Are you sue that the wheezy system is responsible for that braking up?
And why would you go to Sid and not to jessie which is stable?

> 
> So the question is, what does it mean if $ aptitude show
> pulseaudio/pavucontrol does not show systemd as a dependent, but when I
> start to install either, systemd will be installed. There should be a
> way to install them while preventing systemd from being dragged in at
> the same time.
> 
> Haines

This is also a good doc to handle various debian version without systemd
http://without-systemd.org

In fact I was using the setup from here until I had the time to update all
outstanding part.
I updated first pulseaudio and skype - used it for few days and it was
working fine.
After this I rolled back the steps from without-systemd.org

I hope this helps

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Brian]

On Sun 24 Jan 2016 at 14:29:57 -0500, Haines Brown wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:50:51PM +0100, Floris wrote:
> > Op Thu, 21 Jan 2016 22:25:20 +0100 schreef Haines Brown
> > :
> >
> > >I apparently have ALSA on Debian Sid on a Thinkpad, or at least
> > >alsa-mixer seems set up correctly. But $ speaker-test makes no sound.
> 
> > > ...
> 
> > Alsa is build-in in the kernel.  pavucontrol is just a gui for the
> > pulseaudio mixer. It is up to you if you install it or use an other
> > mixer
>  
> > Floris
> 
> Floris, thanks. I understand that ALSA is present, but to run Skype I
> need pavucontrol and pulseaudio. I installed skype:i386 successfully in
> my 64-bit Thinkpad, but no sound. Discussions are ambivalent, but I
> sense that both pavucontrol and pulseaudio are needed to get Skype
> going.

pulseaudio is essential to have audio with the current Skype. It is
doubtful pavucontrol is absolutely necessary. pulseaudio can be
controlled from the command line.

> However, with pavucontrol I run into trouble. I find that pavucontrol
> 3.0-3+b2 in the Debian Sid repository has systemd as a dependency. I had
> removed systemd from my SID installation, and don't want it.

systemd is not shown as a dependency of pavucontrol. What *are* you
talking about?

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:50:51PM +0100, Floris wrote:
> Op Thu, 21 Jan 2016 22:25:20 +0100 schreef Haines Brown
> :
>
> >I apparently have ALSA on Debian Sid on a Thinkpad, or at least
> >alsa-mixer seems set up correctly. But $ speaker-test makes no sound.

> > ...

> Alsa is build-in in the kernel.  pavucontrol is just a gui for the
> pulseaudio mixer. It is up to you if you install it or use an other
> mixer
 
> Floris

Floris, thanks. I understand that ALSA is present, but to run Skype I
need pavucontrol and pulseaudio. I installed skype:i386 successfully in
my 64-bit Thinkpad, but no sound. Discussions are ambivalent, but I
sense that both pavucontrol and pulseaudio are needed to get Skype
going.

However, with pavucontrol I run into trouble. I find that pavucontrol
3.0-3+b2 in the Debian Sid repository has systemd as a dependency. I had
removed systemd from my SID installation, and don't want it.

pavucontrol 1.0-1 does not need systemd. I have in hand the source code
for pavucontrol 2.0, but don't know if it requires systemd. Also I don't
know if compiled it will be compatible with pulseaudio 7.1-2.

Haines Brown 

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Chris Bannister]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:10:45PM -0500, Charles Kroeger wrote:
> First using # dpkg -l grep | alsa
> everything listed, remove with # dpkg -P (packages) You can list them all 
> with a
> space between each for a sequential purge. 

Seriously? Why on earth would anyone purge alsa?

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: getting sound in Sid

[tomas]

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On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 03:26:55PM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:

[...]

> Aptitude install does not list it as a requirement, but when I go to
> install either pulseaudio or pavucontrol it says the following NEW
> packages will be installed [...]

Perhaps your apt is installing recommended packages (instead of just
required?) You can test it by giving the option --no-recommends to
aptitude (short: -R).

If you want to make this setting permanent, you add a file under
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d (named, for example, no-preferences) wih a line

  APT::Install-Recommends no;

regards
- -- t
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Re: getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 07:53:52PM +, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 24 Jan 2016 at 14:29:57 -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:50:51PM +0100, Floris wrote:
> > > Op Thu, 21 Jan 2016 22:25:20 +0100 schreef Haines Brown
> > > :
> > >
> > > >I apparently have ALSA on Debian Sid on a Thinkpad, or at least
> > > >alsa-mixer seems set up correctly. But $ speaker-test makes no sound.
> > 
> > > > ...
> > 
> > > Alsa is build-in in the kernel.  pavucontrol is just a gui for the
> > > pulseaudio mixer. It is up to you if you install it or use an other
> > > mixer
> >  
> > > Floris
> > 
> > Floris, thanks. I understand that ALSA is present, but to run Skype I
> > need pavucontrol and pulseaudio. I installed skype:i386 successfully in
> > my 64-bit Thinkpad, but no sound. Discussions are ambivalent, but I
> > sense that both pavucontrol and pulseaudio are needed to get Skype
> > going.
> 
> pulseaudio is essential to have audio with the current Skype. It is
> doubtful pavucontrol is absolutely necessary. pulseaudio can be
> controlled from the command line.

Ah, thanks, this might be the answer.

> > However, with pavucontrol I run into trouble. I find that pavucontrol
> > 3.0-3+b2 in the Debian Sid repository has systemd as a dependency. I had
> > removed systemd from my SID installation, and don't want it.
> 
> systemd is not shown as a dependency of pavucontrol. What *are* you
> talking about?

Aptitude install does not list it as a requirement, but when I go to
install either pulseaudio or pavucontrol it says the following NEW
packages will be installed, and the list includes systemd{a} and
systemd-shim{a}. I suppose that if they were not mandatory they would
not have be automatically installed.

Haines

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 09:58:24PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> Last skype version which worked without pulse was 4.2 (4.2.0.13).
> So if you want to run the 4.3 you need pulse and probably systemd, though I
> was running it with pulse without systemd in jessie, so this must be
> something new and related to pulse.
> The 4.2 version had a problem with login, which could be solved only from
> within 4.3.

On my desktop, I'm running Debian Wheezy and Skype 4.3.0.37-1. I
installed pulseaudio and pavucontrol, and after some fiddling got Skype
working. The absence of systemd on this machine causes no problems,
although I see that libsystemd-daemon0 and libsystemd-login0 are
installed. However, Skype's audio breaks up and video is terrible, which
is why I'm trying to set Skype up on my Sid laptop.

So the question is, what does it mean if $ aptitude show
pulseaudio/pavucontrol does not show systemd as a dependent, but when I
start to install either, systemd will be installed. There should be a
way to install them while preventing systemd from being dragged in at
the same time.

Haines

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Brian]

On Sun 24 Jan 2016 at 16:37:06 -0500, Haines Brown wrote:

> So the question is, what does it mean if $ aptitude show
> pulseaudio/pavucontrol does not show systemd as a dependent, but when I
> start to install either, systemd will be installed. There should be a
> way to install them while preventing systemd from being dragged in at
> the same time.

to...@tuxteam.de has given the solution to this earlier. A refinement is
to install the pavucontrol dependencies one by one. The moment you get
policykit-1 coming into the picture add --no-install-recommends for that
package.

Tedious, but it is what one has to do for one's principles. :)

Re: getting sound in Sid

[tomas]

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On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:12:16PM +0300, Adam Wilson wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 08:42:49 +0100  wrote:
> 
> > BTW: I have sound, am running a combination of stable and unstable
> 
> ??

As in: base system is stable, some packages from unstable. Some call it
a FrankenDebian[1], but it works if you tread carefully.

[1] 

regards
- -- tomás
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Re: getting sound in Sid

[tomas]

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On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:10:45PM -0500, Charles Kroeger wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:00:02 +0100
> Floris  wrote:
> 
> > Op Thu, 21 Jan 2016 22:25:20 +0100 schreef Haines Brown  
> > :
> > 
> > > I apparently have ALSA on Debian Sid on a Thinkpad, or at least
> > > alsa-mixer seems set up correctly. But $ speaker-test makes no sound.
> > >
> > > # lspci | grep audio returns nothing. So I wondered if alsa drivers are
> > > installed. Soundcore is installed, but I discovered there is no longer
> > > any alsa-modules package.
> > 
> > The alsa modules are named snd_***
> > You can check your loaded modules with
> > $ lsmod | grep snd
> > 
> > >
> > > In Sid has ALSA been replaced by pavucontrol? To get sound, must I
> > > install it?
> > >
> > Alsa is build-in in the kernel.
> > pavucontrol is just a gui for the pulseaudio mixer. It is up to you
> > if you install it or use an other mixer
> > 
> > Floris
> 
> First using # dpkg -l grep | alsa
> everything listed, remove with # dpkg -P (packages) You can list them all 
> with a
> space between each for a sequential purge. Copy and paste is useful here.
> 
> then:
> 
> apt-get install pavucontrol
> 
> I don't know why but this solution got sound working again for me after a long
> fight with different configuration files that controlled ALSA.

Good for you.

> pavucontrol might just be another mixer

No, no. It's just the "mixer GUI for pulseaudio"
>but it's more than that because it will
> bring with it those necessary things to have sound on your computer (again) 
> The
> ALSA era is now over for we the unstable. pavucontrol will likely find your
> sound output device when it installs.

Again, no. ALSA is a driver infrastructure. Pulseaudio is a sound daemon (and
sits on top of -- among other things) ALSA. In your case, you are most probably
using both (unless you're doing sound over the net, for example).

What makes things a bit confusing is that ALSA also provides some user-space
tools.

BTW: I have sound, am running a combination of stable and unstable and
have no pulseaudio. So it's quite doable.

regards
- -- tomás
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Re: getting sound in Sid

[Adam Wilson]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 08:42:49 +0100  wrote:

> BTW: I have sound, am running a combination of stable and unstable

??

getting sound in Sid

[Haines Brown]

I apparently have ALSA on Debian Sid on a Thinkpad, or at least
alsa-mixer seems set up correctly. But $ speaker-test makes no sound.

# lspci | grep audio returns nothing. So I wondered if alsa drivers are
installed. Soundcore is installed, but I discovered there is no longer
any alsa-modules package.

In Sid has ALSA been replaced by pavucontrol? To get sound, must I
install it?

Haines

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Floris]

Op Thu, 21 Jan 2016 22:25:20 +0100 schreef Haines Brown  
:



I apparently have ALSA on Debian Sid on a Thinkpad, or at least
alsa-mixer seems set up correctly. But $ speaker-test makes no sound.

# lspci | grep audio returns nothing. So I wondered if alsa drivers are
installed. Soundcore is installed, but I discovered there is no longer
any alsa-modules package.


The alsa modules are named snd_***
You can check your loaded modules with
$ lsmod | grep snd



In Sid has ALSA been replaced by pavucontrol? To get sound, must I
install it?


Alsa is build-in in the kernel.
pavucontrol is just a gui for the pulseaudio mixer. It is up to you
if you install it or use an other mixer

Floris

Re: getting sound in Sid

[Charles Kroeger]

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:00:02 +0100
Floris  wrote:

> Op Thu, 21 Jan 2016 22:25:20 +0100 schreef Haines Brown  
> :
> 
> > I apparently have ALSA on Debian Sid on a Thinkpad, or at least
> > alsa-mixer seems set up correctly. But $ speaker-test makes no sound.
> >
> > # lspci | grep audio returns nothing. So I wondered if alsa drivers are
> > installed. Soundcore is installed, but I discovered there is no longer
> > any alsa-modules package.
> 
> The alsa modules are named snd_***
> You can check your loaded modules with
> $ lsmod | grep snd
> 
> >
> > In Sid has ALSA been replaced by pavucontrol? To get sound, must I
> > install it?
> >
> Alsa is build-in in the kernel.
> pavucontrol is just a gui for the pulseaudio mixer. It is up to you
> if you install it or use an other mixer
> 
> Floris

First using # dpkg -l grep | alsa
everything listed, remove with # dpkg -P (packages) You can list them all with a
space between each for a sequential purge. Copy and paste is useful here.

then:

apt-get install pavucontrol

I don't know why but this solution got sound working again for me after a long
fight with different configuration files that controlled ALSA.

pavucontrol might just be another mixer but it's more than that because it will
bring with it those necessary things to have sound on your computer (again) The
ALSA era is now over for we the unstable. pavucontrol will likely find your
sound output device when it installs.

After installation you should test for sound before tinkering with the GUI. It
should work, and it probably will. 

-- 
CK