Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On 28/09/11 21:25, � wrote: On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:45:22 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 28/09/11 00:49, � wrote: (...) What changes in the internet render the default Squeeze Iceweasel unusable other than the latest extensions? We're a long way from HTML5 yet. NOTE: warning from webservers based on version numbers doesn't count. (...) joke mode on Ah, Scott, Scott... the web turns into a lonely place when you can't play Angry Birds online and you need an html5 based browser to launch those softy balls of feather to destroy the green pig houses. /joke mode off Greetings, (from the land of html5, where the canvas element lies...) Are you serious? Maybe you should warn the w3.org they need to update their documentation? Angry Birds belongs in the same bucket as Silverlight and Fffacebook. How can be that? AB is a game, SL is a plugin and FB is a social network. I have a special (Circular Repurposing And Purging) bucket, (for all types of rubbish), like Facebook, Silverlight, and Angry Birds, there's even copies of MS Vista and ME in there. You put Angry Birds, HTML 5, and the Canvas element in the same sentence, as if they're all related. and you look at me like I'm a dog that's just been shown a card trick? How can that be? A. the Canvas element has been supported by Apple's Webkit since 2004. B. HTML 5 is not a finalised standard *yet*. There are two versions of the Angry Birds game. The on developed for Apple. It uses the Canvas element. HTML 5 is not a standard yet. When it is, it will most likely support Apple's Canvas Element to some degree. The other, more recent, version, was developed for Google. Part of the development contract was that portions be exclusive for the Google Chrome Browser. It uses the Canvas Element - which is supported by some browsers. It will never be fully supported by all browsers - even when HTML 5 is finalized (by design). Lots of people use and want them - just like lots of people believe in little green people in flying saucers... oh, hang on - it's the same people. Sigh... I'm afraid you tried to connect the points by following the numbers in the wrong order. When you find:- !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 5.0//EN as a tag, then you can start testing browsers for HTML 5 support. Until then - we're just trying to nail smoke to the wall. Cheers Refs:- http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/ http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#is-this-html5? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e840f36.1050...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:24:54 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 28/09/11 21:25, � wrote: (...) joke mode on Ah, Scott, Scott... the web turns into a lonely place when you can't play Angry Birds online and you need an html5 based browser to launch those softy balls of feather to destroy the green pig houses. /joke mode off Greetings, (from the land of html5, where the canvas element lies...) Are you serious? Maybe you should warn the w3.org they need to update their documentation? Serious about what? Angry Birds belongs in the same bucket as Silverlight and Fffacebook. How can be that? AB is a game, SL is a plugin and FB is a social network. I have a special (Circular Repurposing And Purging) bucket, (for all types of rubbish), like Facebook, Silverlight, and Angry Birds, there's even copies of MS Vista and ME in there. Consider enlarging your bucket, as this is only the principle of the new era. You put Angry Birds, HTML 5, and the Canvas element in the same sentence, as if they're all related. and you look at me like I'm a dog that's just been shown a card trick? Yes, because they are all related. How can that be? A. the Canvas element has been supported by Apple's Webkit since 2004. I also do read the wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_element But this is not related to Firefox nor its ability to render html5 code. B. HTML 5 is not a finalised standard *yet*. It's a working draft. It seems that you don't have a minimal knowledge of how W3C manages its specs. There are two versions of the Angry Birds game. What the hell are you talking about? I was referring to this: http://chrome.angrybirds.com/ The on developed for Apple. It uses the Canvas element. HTML 5 is not a standard yet. When it is, it will most likely support Apple's Canvas Element to some degree. The other, more recent, version, was developed for Google. Part of the development contract was that portions be exclusive for the Google Chrome Browser. It uses the Canvas Element - which is supported by some browsers. It will never be fully supported by all browsers - even when HTML 5 is finalized (by design). Okay, so you were not aware that it can be played with any browser that supports the canvas element. Fine. Now you know. Lots of people use and want them - just like lots of people believe in little green people in flying saucers... oh, hang on - it's the same people. Sigh... I'm afraid you tried to connect the points by following the numbers in the wrong order. When you find:- !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 5.0//EN as a tag, then you can start testing browsers for HTML 5 support. Until then - we're just trying to nail smoke to the wall. (...) That's simply not true. Html is flexible and polivalent enough to start using part of a wowking draft spec now while keeping compatibility with html4/xhtml. Wake up! Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.29.13.37...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:45:22 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 28/09/11 00:49, � wrote: (...) What changes in the internet render the default Squeeze Iceweasel unusable other than the latest extensions? We're a long way from HTML5 yet. NOTE: warning from webservers based on version numbers doesn't count. (...) joke mode on Ah, Scott, Scott... the web turns into a lonely place when you can't play Angry Birds online and you need an html5 based browser to launch those softy balls of feather to destroy the green pig houses. /joke mode off Greetings, (from the land of html5, where the canvas element lies...) Angry Birds belongs in the same bucket as Silverlight and Fffacebook. How can be that? AB is a game, SL is a plugin and FB is a social network. Lots of people use and want them - just like lots of people believe in little green people in flying saucers... oh, hang on - it's the same people. Sigh... I'm afraid you tried to connect the points by following the numbers in the wrong order. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.28.11.25...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:43:08 +0100, Brian wrote: On Mon 26 Sep 2011 at 14:23:12 +, Camaleón wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:33:31 +0100, Brian wrote: It is clear we have diametrically opposite views, so best leave it there. How can be that? I mean, how can you consider ClamAV needs to be up-to-date (I mean the program, not the firm files as firm files to detect malware are automatically updated regardless the version of the program) and Iceweasel not? You can't go so far with Iceweasel 2.x on these days... I have no particular view on clamav's inclusion in squeeze-updates and only mentioned it because it is given as an example of a package which fits criterion 4. (...) Okay, but I hope you've noted that packages that fall in there (squeeze- updates) are for many different reasons, not just one and while clamav is put as an example of point 4) it contradicts with point 1) By following that same logic, Iceweasel can fit into point 1) and just for that be eligible to be there. Do you understand now what I try to say? If you want me say Iceweasel 6.0 has more features and is more up-to-date than Iceweasel 3.0.6 on Lenny you can have it, but being up-to-date doesn't count for stable-updates and Iceweasel 3.0.6 is no less useful now in its own terms and in the context of keeping Lenny stable than the day it was installed. So, do you still think that Iceweasel does not fit for point 1)? The Stable Release Manager has something to say on the policy for stable-updates at http://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/06/10/people-behind-debian-philipp-kern/ Precisely (I guess you refer to his reponse to The policy for stable updates have changed over time. Can you summarize what kind of updates are allowed nowadays? question). He first states that things are changing and stable-updates is becoming more flexible over the time, which is my main point. To be sincere, I think the main (only?) reason for not having Mozilla products in there is just for what Sven said earlier on this thread: architecture build issues, which being a merely techical reason I can fully understand. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.27.11.42...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:45:28 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/09/11 04:51, Allan Wind wrote: On 2011-09-25 17:56:32, Brian wrote: The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. The environment changes relative to a frozen browser which reduce the usefulness to me. ? What changes in the internet render the default Squeeze Iceweasel unusable other than the latest extensions? We're a long way from HTML5 yet. NOTE: warning from webservers based on version numbers doesn't count. (...) joke mode on Ah, Scott, Scott... the web turns into a lonely place when you can't play Angry Birds online and you need an html5 based browser to launch those softy balls of feather to destroy the green pig houses. /joke mode off Greetings, (from the land of html5, where the canvas element lies...) -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.27.14.49...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Tue 27 Sep 2011 at 11:42:17 +, Camaleón wrote: So, do you still think that Iceweasel does not fit for point 1)? There might be a demand to get it in on that basis - but it would only be for the birds. :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110927182243.GJ6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Rob Hurle rob1...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Peter, On 25 September 2011 10:04, Peter Tenenbaum peter.g.tenenb...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to migrate to firefox 6.0, but I'd like to do it using the debian iceweasel distribution. Can anyone tell me how to go about setting that up? Try the following: http://mozilla.debian.net/ I used it and found it very helpful. I also use the Mozilla Debian APT archive in Stable for both Iceweasel and Icedove. This is exactly what I want: The stable base that works with my hardware plus newer versions of what for me are critical applications (web browser, mail client). I also have LibreOffice from Backports.
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On 28/09/11 00:49, � wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:45:28 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 26/09/11 04:51, Allan Wind wrote: On 2011-09-25 17:56:32, Brian wrote: The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. The environment changes relative to a frozen browser which reduce the usefulness to me. ? What changes in the internet render the default Squeeze Iceweasel unusable other than the latest extensions? We're a long way from HTML5 yet. NOTE: warning from webservers based on version numbers doesn't count. (...) joke mode on Ah, Scott, Scott... the web turns into a lonely place when you can't play Angry Birds online and you need an html5 based browser to launch those softy balls of feather to destroy the green pig houses. /joke mode off Greetings, (from the land of html5, where the canvas element lies...) Angry Birds belongs in the same bucket as Silverlight and Fffacebook. Lots of people use and want them - just like lots of people believe in little green people in flying saucers... oh, hang on - it's the same people. Cheers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e826e22.7020...@gmail.com
OT: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
just like lots of people believe in little green people in flying saucers Idiots, everybody knows that the aliens are grey and that they fly in cigar formed spaceships. Which reminds me to two songs. Jimi Hendrix - UFO (AUTHENTIC STUDIO RECORDINGS VOL 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX83F9IuoBU MC 900 Ft Jesus - TRUTH IS OUT OF STYLE (1989) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYtlpG0hb38 Cheers! Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1317179679.13989.13.camel@debian
Re: OT: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On 28/09/11 13:14, Ralf Mardorf wrote: just like lots of people believe in little green people in flying saucers Idiots, everybody knows that the aliens are grey and that they fly in cigar formed spaceships. :-D They make the spaceships in cigars? I knew those tobacco companies were evil, but... Which reminds me to two songs. Jimi Hendrix - UFO (AUTHENTIC STUDIO RECORDINGS VOL 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX83F9IuoBU MC 900 Ft Jesus - TRUTH IS OUT OF STYLE (1989) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYtlpG0hb38 I always like the bit about Shirley Out of her tree MacLaine :-) Cheers! Ralf On a slightly more serious note - HTML is not a standard, yet. I'll happily start coding for it when it is - until then :-) Canvas (as used by Angry Birds) has been around since 2004 (it's a Mac thing). And Angry Birds for the browser was developed exclusively for Google's Chrome browser. Some features are currently supported in other browsers - but extended levels etc are not (and probably never will be). Cheers Ref:- http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e8297ec.1040...@gmail.com
OT: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze - reloaded
On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 05:14 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: just like lots of people believe in little green people in flying saucers Idiots, everybody knows that the aliens are grey and that they fly in cigar formed spaceships. Which reminds me to two songs. Jimi Hendrix - UFO (AUTHENTIC STUDIO RECORDINGS VOL 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX83F9IuoBU MC 900 Ft Jesus - TRUTH IS OUT OF STYLE (1989) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYtlpG0hb38 Cheers! Ralf PS: There really is one evidence for aliens who do brain surgery on humans. Agent Steel's Skeptic Apocalypse Agent Steel - Agents of Steel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdCwdfjMqHg A lot of their music is about UFOs. AFAIK they never had a stroke, so the only explanation for their music is a trauma, regarding to a rape done by aliens. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1317180705.13989.20.camel@debian
Re: OT: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On 28/09/11 13:14, Ralf Mardorf wrote: snipped MC 900 Ft Jesus - TRUTH IS OUT OF STYLE (1989) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYtlpG0hb38 Cheers! Ralf 5! I meant 5 On a slightly more serious note - HTML *5* is not a standard, yet. I'll happily start coding for it when it is - until then Cheers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e829919.6070...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:16:04 +0100, Brian wrote: On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 20:02:22 +, Camaleón wrote: I think that's not comparable with a browser functionality that is needed for almost 50% of today's most used sites... how many people uses sort every day and how many people uses Iceweasel every day? :-) I wasn't comparing sort's functionality with Iceweasel's but countering the assertion that a later changed version of a program causes the original one to lose its usefulness. You haven't addressed this (apart from saying 'Yes, they do.') so it appears I've been successful in making my point that Iceweasel doesn't satisfy the fourth criterion for inclusion in squeeze-updates. :) Hey, you can't auto-give you a point for something that I have not discussed ;-) Regards to the 4th point that says a package needs to be current to be useful it fully fits with Iceweasel but I wouldn't say so for clamav. ClamAV is a package focused on doing mostly one thing: detect malware while Iceweasel is a multipurpose application because browsing involves more activities than just rendering a page in your browser. So while ClamAV will still be doing what it should do regardless its version, Iceweasel won't be of usefulness when its not current. If you say so... then why not keep Iceweasel 2.x branch? Let's patch it ad infinitum to make it more secure and all happy, right? I don't think so :-) squeeze-updates has nothing to do with security. Well, let me think... clamav was in volatile repo volatile repo provided their own security fixes volatile repo has been replaced by squeeze-updates I love the logic behind the things :-) ClamAV does not need to be up-to-date neither, it just need security fixes. It's firmware files that keep the program useful not the program itself. squeeze-updates has nothing to do with security. So which criteria does clamav fulfil to be there? Clamav was on volatile repo and it received (receives) updates for security fixes, don't know if that respond your concerns. I hope squeeze- updates still follows that tradition (I know it does) :-) We are not talking here about the need of Mozilla packages to be updated (it is obvious that is something users need and for that reason exists Mozilla repo and backports) but the proper repo for where to put those packages. Which is why I emphasised the word 'urgently' to stress it was criterion number 1 for inclusion in squeeze-updates which needed consideration. Unfortunately it wasn't given any. And that's the point. I find squeeze-updates very useful and most of the users will already have it in their sources.list file but the more repos you add, the more chances you have to mess things up and forcing the user to take such decision just to get Mozilla packages updated can be overly. squeeze-updates contains a mere 33 packages derived from only 6 sources. tzdata may be the one many users would want updating. Similar to what volatile repo had. The principal reason users want their usual archive and squeeze-updates in sources.list is not to lose out. With any other archive (testing, backports etc) they aim to gain. What they will gain is package messing and having to deal with pinning :-) Mozilla packages which are not fixes for security issues rightly belong in the second category because they have nothing to contribute to keeping a stable system stable. I guess that Mozilla new versioning system is aimed to consider deprecated/outdated/unsupported whatever version is not their last stable (unless they provide a separated long term branch). They have changed the rules of the play and we have to understand -and cope with- that. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.26.11.35...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Mon 26 Sep 2011 at 11:35:51 +, Camaleón wrote: Hey, you can't auto-give you a point for something that I have not discussed ;-) You were being tardy in getting round to it so it needed something to prod you into action. :) Regards to the 4th point that says a package needs to be current to be useful it fully fits with Iceweasel but I wouldn't say so for clamav. It is clear we have diametrically opposite views, so best leave it there. Well, let me think... clamav was in volatile repo volatile repo provided their own security fixes volatile repo has been replaced by squeeze-updates I love the logic behind the things :-) Three correct statements but an unjustified conclusion. My statement that squeeze-updates does not deal with security was informed by This suite will contain updates that satisfy one of the following criteria: * The update is urgent and not of a security nature. Security updates will continue to be pushed through the security archive. Clamav was on volatile repo and it received (receives) updates for security fixes, don't know if that respond your concerns. I hope squeeze- updates still follows that tradition (I know it does) :-) Please see previously. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2011092611.GG6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:33:31 +0100, Brian wrote: On Mon 26 Sep 2011 at 11:35:51 +, Camaleón wrote: Hey, you can't auto-give you a point for something that I have not discussed ;-) You were being tardy in getting round to it so it needed something to prod you into action. :) I didn't know time was a variable to care about in this game! :-) Regards to the 4th point that says a package needs to be current to be useful it fully fits with Iceweasel but I wouldn't say so for clamav. It is clear we have diametrically opposite views, so best leave it there. How can be that? I mean, how can you consider ClamAV needs to be up-to-date (I mean the program, not the firm files as firm files to detect malware are automatically updated regardless the version of the program) and Iceweasel not? You can't go so far with Iceweasel 2.x on these days... Well, let me think... clamav was in volatile repo volatile repo provided their own security fixes volatile repo has been replaced by squeeze-updates I love the logic behind the things :-) Three correct statements but an unjustified conclusion. My statement that squeeze-updates does not deal with security was informed by This suite will contain updates that satisfy one of the following criteria: * The update is urgent and not of a security nature. Security updates will continue to be pushed through the security archive. Fine, but the above is not true¹ for ClamAV (while it can be for other packages that are available in that repo) so we have here a singularity :-) ¹ I'm a clamav user and follow both, volatile and stable announcement mailing lists and as you can see, clamav updates usually fix security flaws: http://lists.debian.org/debian-stable-announce/2011/07/threads.html Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.26.14.23...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Mon 26 Sep 2011 at 14:23:12 +, Camaleón wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:33:31 +0100, Brian wrote: It is clear we have diametrically opposite views, so best leave it there. How can be that? I mean, how can you consider ClamAV needs to be up-to-date (I mean the program, not the firm files as firm files to detect malware are automatically updated regardless the version of the program) and Iceweasel not? You can't go so far with Iceweasel 2.x on these days... I have no particular view on clamav's inclusion in squeeze-updates and only mentioned it because it is given as an example of a package which fits criterion 4. If you want me say Iceweasel 6.0 has more features and is more up-to-date than Iceweasel 3.0.6 on Lenny you can have it, but being up-to-date doesn't count for stable-updates and Iceweasel 3.0.6 is no less useful now in its own terms and in the context of keeping Lenny stable than the day it was installed. The Stable Release Manager has something to say on the policy for stable-updates at http://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/06/10/people-behind-debian-philipp-kern/ Three correct statements but an unjustified conclusion. My statement that squeeze-updates does not deal with security was informed by This suite will contain updates that satisfy one of the following criteria: * The update is urgent and not of a security nature. Security updates will continue to be pushed through the security archive. Fine, but the above is not true¹ for ClamAV (while it can be for other packages that are available in that repo) so we have here a singularity :-) That's more matter for the SRM to comment on. Even he has been known to wonder why a security update for clamav has not been pushed through. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110926174308.GI6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 11:02:34 +1000, Rob Hurle wrote: Dear Peter, On 25 September 2011 10:04, Peter Tenenbaum peter.g.tenenb...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to migrate to firefox 6.0, but I'd like to do it using the debian iceweasel distribution. Can anyone tell me how to go about setting that up? Try the following: http://mozilla.debian.net/ I used it and found it very helpful. I've always wondered why Mozilla products are not integrated into squeeze-updates (the old volatile repo), it seems to fit perfectly there :-? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.25.13.45...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 11:02:34 +1000, Rob Hurle wrote: Dear Peter, On 25 September 2011 10:04, Peter Tenenbaum peter.g.tenenb...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to migrate to firefox 6.0, but I'd like to do it using the debian iceweasel distribution. Can anyone tell me how to go about setting that up? Try the following: http://mozilla.debian.net/ I added the deb http://mozilla.debian.net/ squeeze-backports iceweasel-release to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/: during updating, it showed me: W: GPG error: http://mozilla.debian.net squeeze-backports Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 85A3D26506C4AE2A I used it and found it very helpful. I've always wondered why Mozilla products are not integrated into squeeze-updates (the old volatile repo), it seems to fit perfectly there :-? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.25.13.45...@gmail.com -- Best Regards, lina
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 01:45:42PM +, Camaleón wrote: Hi, I've always wondered why Mozilla products are not integrated into squeeze-updates (the old volatile repo), it seems to fit perfectly there :-? As far as I remember in the past new Firefox/Iceweasel releases did not always build on all architectures Debian released with and/or required a newer gtk release. That makes it impossible to integrate such a package into the next point release, and that is where the packages from squeeze-updates should end up. So a backports repository is a much better place to keep them. Sven -- And I don't know much, but I do know this: With a golden heart comes a rebel fist. [ Streetlight Manifesto - Here's To Life ] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925150325.GA4934@marvin
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 13:45:42 +, Camaleón wrote: I've always wondered why Mozilla products are not integrated into squeeze-updates (the old volatile repo), it seems to fit perfectly there :-? Not quite the perfect fit for inclusion as you might think: This suite will contain updates that satisfy one of the following criteria: * The update is urgent and not of a security nature. Security updates will continue to be pushed through the security archive. Examples include packages broken by the flow of time (c.f. spamassassin and the year 2010 problem) and fixes for bugs introduced by point releases. * The package in question is a data package and the data must be updated in a timely manner (e.g. tzdata). * Fixes to leaf packages that were broken by external changes (e.g. video downloading tools and tor). * Packages that need to be current to be useful (e.g. clamav). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925151326.GB6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 22:56:21 +0800 lina lina.lastn...@gmail.com wrote: Hello lina, W: GPG error: http://mozilla.debian.net squeeze-backports Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 85A3D26506C4AE2A Add the key: There's a series of instructions on the web site. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent It's becoming an obsession Teenage Depression - Eddie The Hot Rods signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 22:56:21 +0800, lina wrote: I added the deb http://mozilla.debian.net/ squeeze-backports iceweasel-release to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/: during updating, it showed me: W: GPG error: http://mozilla.debian.net squeeze-backports Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 85A3D26506C4AE2A Did you download the key? Instructions are on http://mozilla.debian.net/. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925151603.GC6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 16:13:26 +0100, Brian wrote: On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 13:45:42 +, Camaleón wrote: I've always wondered why Mozilla products are not integrated into squeeze-updates (the old volatile repo), it seems to fit perfectly there :-? Not quite the perfect fit for inclusion as you might think: This suite will contain updates that satisfy one of the following criteria: * The update is urgent and not of a security nature. Security updates will continue to be pushed through the security archive. Examples include packages broken by the flow of time (c.f. spamassassin and the year 2010 problem) and fixes for bugs introduced by point releases. * The package in question is a data package and the data must be updated in a timely manner (e.g. tzdata). * Fixes to leaf packages that were broken by external changes (e.g. video downloading tools and tor). * Packages that need to be current to be useful (e.g. clamav). Yes, I already read that announcement message and that's why I find it very appropriate, specially for points 1) and 4). A very different thing is the limitation Sven has pointed out: if the packages are not able to be compiled for all of the architectures and squeeze-updates packages are going to be part of the point releases then it makes more sense to keep these packages out of that tree. P.S. I'm runnig a 64-bits lenny -yes, still- and had to get the upstream mozilla packages because they are not updated anymore in Debian (fair) but I had no incompatibility issues despite I'm running very old versions of gtk and other libraries that Firefox needs and true is that I expected complaints at install time... hopefully there were none. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.25.15.44...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 22:56:21 +0800, lina wrote: I added the deb http://mozilla.debian.net/ squeeze-backports iceweasel-release to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/: during updating, it showed me: W: GPG error: http://mozilla.debian.net squeeze-backports Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 85A3D26506C4AE2A Did you download the key? Instructions are on http://mozilla.debian.net/. I forget to finish reading the whole page before. Now I understand. but nicely weird, unconsciously during updating wheezy, nothing specific I have done, the iceweasel has already walked to version 6. Thanks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925151603.GC6253@desktop -- Best Regards, lina
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 15:44:26 +, Camaleón wrote: Yes, I already read that announcement message and that's why I find it very appropriate, specially for points 1) and 4). The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. The later version may have a few more *additional* useful enhancements but that is not what point 4 is about, And what is in Iceweasel 7.0 which makes it urgent for *all* users to have it available in squeeze-updates? Backports and mozilla.debian.net are the places for updated Mozilla packages. They are splendid resources. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925165632.GD6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 17:56:32 +0100, Brian wrote: On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 15:44:26 +, Camaleón wrote: Yes, I already read that announcement message and that's why I find it very appropriate, specially for points 1) and 4). The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. Yes, they do. Many sites out there require fancy things like html5. And you cannot fight against Google nor big sites about it: if you have an older browser, forget about using many of their options. The later version may have a few more *additional* useful enhancements but that is not what point 4 is about, And what is in Iceweasel 7.0 which makes it urgent for *all* users to have it available in squeeze -updates? Mozilla quick release policy is very aggresive and -we like it not- it affects their users. AFAIK, version 7 is not their stable branch... yet. Backports and mozilla.debian.net are the places for updated Mozilla packages. They are splendid resources. Not for many users, mostly newcomers. The less repositories to deal with, the better for system stability and peace of mind. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.25.17.35...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
Ah, that webpage did the trick, thanks! -PT On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Peter Tenenbaum peter.g.tenenb...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to migrate to firefox 6.0, but I'd like to do it using the debian iceweasel distribution. Can anyone tell me how to go about setting that up? Thanks in advance, -PT
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On 2011-09-25 17:56:32, Brian wrote: The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. The environment changes relative to a frozen browser which reduce the usefulness to me. Google Apps was mentioned earlier which used to work and now give you an ugly warning upon login. Their admin interface to add/remove users did not work for many months (I had to install chromium for that task). Addons for Firefox continue to evolve and some do not preserve backwards compatibility. Firebug comes to mind. While you can continue to use the old version, you no longer get the benefit of improvements or bug fixes in addons. The later version may have a few more *additional* useful enhancements but that is not what point 4 is about, And what is in Iceweasel 7.0 which makes it urgent for *all* users to have it available in squeeze-updates? I appreciate the benefits of stable especially on the server side. But does anyone really benefit from running Firefox 3.5.x opposed to more current version? Backports and mozilla.debian.net are the places for updated Mozilla packages. They are splendid resources. I knew of backport but not iceweasel-release. How do people find out of those semi-official repos? Is there a way to tell how many people actually make use of it? If it is more than x% should it not be the default configuration? /Allan -- Allan Wind Life Integrity, LLC http://lifeintegrity.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925185100.GA7003@vent.lifeintegrity.localnet
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 17:35:46 +, Camaleón wrote: On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 17:56:32 +0100, Brian wrote: The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. Yes, they do. Many sites out there require fancy things like html5. And you cannot fight against Google nor big sites about it: if you have an older browser, forget about using many of their options. The version of the utility sort on this machine does not have a -h option. sort is designed to sort lines of text files. Without -h it still does that job. It has *lost* none of its functionality because it does not have -h. Iceweasel on Squeeze may not do all of html5 compared with a later version but it too has not had its functionality *diminished*. It does not need to be current to be useful for the things it was designed to do. Now think of clamv. What is it designed to do? Does it need to be current to be useful over the two year lifetime of a stable release? Does it lose any functionality over time? Would a program which was capable of detecting only 72% of malware be deemed ok? Your argument would have all of GNOME in squeeze-updates. :) The later version may have a few more *additional* useful enhancements but that is not what point 4 is about, And what is in Iceweasel 7.0 which makes it urgent for *all* users to have it available in squeeze -updates? Mozilla quick release policy is very aggresive and -we like it not- it affects their users. AFAIK, version 7 is not their stable branch... yet. It will soon be in unstable. Is there something in it which *all* users should *urgently* consider using? Backports and mozilla.debian.net are the places for updated Mozilla packages. They are splendid resources. Not for many users, mostly newcomers. The less repositories to deal with, the better for system stability and peace of mind. squeeze-updates has very few packages in it. You would have to make a conscious decision to have backports and mozilla.debian.net in your sources.list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925190611.GE6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:06:11 +0100, Brian wrote: On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 17:35:46 +, Camaleón wrote: On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 17:56:32 +0100, Brian wrote: The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. Yes, they do. Many sites out there require fancy things like html5. And you cannot fight against Google nor big sites about it: if you have an older browser, forget about using many of their options. The version of the utility sort on this machine does not have a -h option. sort is designed to sort lines of text files. Without -h it still does that job. It has *lost* none of its functionality because it does not have -h. I think that's not comparable with a browser functionality that is needed for almost 50% of today's most used sites... how many people uses sort every day and how many people uses Iceweasel every day? :-) Iceweasel on Squeeze may not do all of html5 compared with a later version but it too has not had its functionality *diminished*. It does not need to be current to be useful for the things it was designed to do. If you say so... then why not keep Iceweasel 2.x branch? Let's patch it ad infinitum to make it more secure and all happy, right? I don't think so :-) Now think of clamv. What is it designed to do? Does it need to be current to be useful over the two year lifetime of a stable release? Does it lose any functionality over time? Would a program which was capable of detecting only 72% of malware be deemed ok? ClamAV does not need to be up-to-date neither, it just need security fixes. It's firmware files that keep the program useful not the program itself. Your argument would have all of GNOME in squeeze-updates. :) Nope, GNOME (hopefully!) does not have the same release cycle than Mozilla. The later version may have a few more *additional* useful enhancements but that is not what point 4 is about, And what is in Iceweasel 7.0 which makes it urgent for *all* users to have it available in squeeze -updates? Mozilla quick release policy is very aggresive and -we like it not- it affects their users. AFAIK, version 7 is not their stable branch... yet. It will soon be in unstable. Is there something in it which *all* users should *urgently* consider using? We are not talking here about the need of Mozilla packages to be updated (it is obvious that is something users need and for that reason exists Mozilla repo and backports) but the proper repo for where to put those packages. Backports and mozilla.debian.net are the places for updated Mozilla packages. They are splendid resources. Not for many users, mostly newcomers. The less repositories to deal with, the better for system stability and peace of mind. squeeze-updates has very few packages in it. You would have to make a conscious decision to have backports and mozilla.debian.net in your sources.list. And that's the point. I find squeeze-updates very useful and most of the users will already have it in their sources.list file but the more repos you add, the more chances you have to mess things up and forcing the user to take such decision just to get Mozilla packages updated can be overly. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.09.25.20.02...@gmail.com
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On Sun 25 Sep 2011 at 20:02:22 +, Camaleón wrote: I think that's not comparable with a browser functionality that is needed for almost 50% of today's most used sites... how many people uses sort every day and how many people uses Iceweasel every day? :-) I wasn't comparing sort's functionality with Iceweasel's but countering the assertion that a later changed version of a program causes the original one to lose its usefulness. You haven't addressed this (apart from saying 'Yes, they do.') so it appears I've been successful in making my point that Iceweasel doesn't satisfy the fourth criterion for inclusion in squeeze-updates. :) If you say so... then why not keep Iceweasel 2.x branch? Let's patch it ad infinitum to make it more secure and all happy, right? I don't think so :-) squeeze-updates has nothing to do with security. ClamAV does not need to be up-to-date neither, it just need security fixes. It's firmware files that keep the program useful not the program itself. squeeze-updates has nothing to do with security. So which criteria does clamav fulfil to be there? We are not talking here about the need of Mozilla packages to be updated (it is obvious that is something users need and for that reason exists Mozilla repo and backports) but the proper repo for where to put those packages. Which is why I emphasised the word 'urgently' to stress it was criterion number 1 for inclusion in squeeze-updates which needed consideration. Unfortunately it wasn't given any. And that's the point. I find squeeze-updates very useful and most of the users will already have it in their sources.list file but the more repos you add, the more chances you have to mess things up and forcing the user to take such decision just to get Mozilla packages updated can be overly. squeeze-updates contains a mere 33 packages derived from only 6 sources. tzdata may be the one many users would want updating. The principal reason users want their usual archive and squeeze-updates in sources.list is not to lose out. With any other archive (testing, backports etc) they aim to gain. Mozilla packages which are not fixes for security issues rightly belong in the second category because they have nothing to contribute to keeping a stable system stable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110925231604.GF6253@desktop
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
On 26/09/11 04:51, Allan Wind wrote: On 2011-09-25 17:56:32, Brian wrote: The squeeze version of Iceweasel doesn't lose its usefulness because there is a later version out. The environment changes relative to a frozen browser which reduce the usefulness to me. ? What changes in the internet render the default Squeeze Iceweasel unusable other than the latest extensions? We're a long way from HTML5 yet. NOTE: warning from webservers based on version numbers doesn't count. Google Apps was mentioned earlier which used to work and now give you an ugly warning upon login. Their admin interface to add/remove users did not work for many months (I had to install chromium for that task). Does when you change the useragentstring. Addons for Firefox continue to evolve and some do not preserve backwards compatibility. Agreed. Conditionally. Some extensions can be installed from Debian repositories or the Mozilla extensions page. If installed from the Debian repository (eg apt-cache search xul-ext) you will need to pull them from Wheezy *and* in some cases they will still need you to hack the minversionnumber before they'll work (noscript, adblock-plus, firebug etc) If using mozilla repository to run backported versions of IceDove - best to uninstall all extensions installed from Debian repositories - then upgrade, then install only from the Mozilla extensions site. There will still be occasions when you may need to install other packages from Wheezy or Experimental depending on your extensions/plugins. Firebug comes to mind. It requires packages from Wheezy - but it will run on Squeeze using Iceweasel 6.0.2 (I run 1.8.3) While you can continue to use the old version, you no longer get the benefit of improvements or bug fixes in addons. Sometimes unsupported extensions become invisible in the extensions page in Iceweasel - but cause major slowdowns in page rendering. eg. PageSpeed if Firebug is not upgrade. The later version may have a few more *additional* useful enhancements but that is not what point 4 is about, And what is in Iceweasel 7.0 which makes it urgent for *all* users to have it available in squeeze-updates? I appreciate the benefits of stable especially on the server side. But does anyone really benefit from running Firefox 3.5.x opposed to more current version? Yes - everything. just. works. Changing the useragent string solves most of the complaints about unsupported version messages from sites, leaving only unsupported extensions as a reason to upgrade. Backports and mozilla.debian.net are the places for updated Mozilla packages. They are splendid resources. I knew of backport but not iceweasel-release. How do people find out of those semi-official repos? Search engines See:- http://wiki.debian.org/UnofficialRepositories http://www.apt-get.org/ Is there a way to tell how many people actually make use of it? NAFAIK If it is more than x% should it not be the default configuration? The process for deciding that is a vote. /Allan Cheers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4e7ff558.1070...@gmail.com
iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
I would like to migrate to firefox 6.0, but I'd like to do it using the debian iceweasel distribution. Can anyone tell me how to go about setting that up? Thanks in advance, -PT
Re: iceweasel based on firefox 6.0 for squeeze
Dear Peter, On 25 September 2011 10:04, Peter Tenenbaum peter.g.tenenb...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to migrate to firefox 6.0, but I'd like to do it using the debian iceweasel distribution. Can anyone tell me how to go about setting that up? Try the following: http://mozilla.debian.net/ I used it and found it very helpful. Cheers, Rob Hurle -- - Rob Hurle ANU, College of Asia and the Pacific School of Culture, History and Language Histories of Asia and the Pacific e-mail: rob1...@gmail.com Telephone (ANU): +61 2 6125 3169 Mobile (in VN): +84 948 243 538 Mobile (in OZ): +61 417 293 603 - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CABMs7vi+ogE6ze2qAPOjSh9DHFgsLbed0RFO_8c0FLdN9j==g...@mail.gmail.com
