Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 16:48 -0400, H.S. wrote: So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. virtualbox-ose is a good choice. -- Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
H.S. wrote: Hello, Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. Thanks. -HS I've been using a Vista VM every day for work on top of Lenny in VirtualBox for 6 moths now, it's great. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2008-07-17 22:48, H.S. wrote: So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. I've been running VMware some time ago, but it required constant reconfiguration, because it couldn't live with the ever changing ethernet connections of my laptop. - From there I went to qemu as the free alternative within debian at the time. At the time however, it turned out that it was rather complicated to exchange data between guest and host. In my scenario practically all modifications to files would lead to data loss. I filed a bug, but the only reaction from the maintainers was to decrease the severity level to non-RC [1]. From this experience, I decided that qemu is unusable for me personally. I switched to virtualbox-ose (on lenny). It's quite user friendly and intuitive and I haven't had any issues. I have to admit that I don't use VMs as much as used to, because I try harder to avoid proprietary data formats and software and because wine works now for some software that would require 'real windoze' some time ago. HTH, YMMV, Johannes [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=419929 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkiAPpwACgkQC1NzPRl9qEWg/ACeOMCvqpD1RN3h95MCYR+M/GRv aaAAmwanmHbf1v3FW+XjNGLRGAFIooQi =mE93 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
For Free Software purists, note that while there's a GPL version of VirtualBox itself, the Guest Additions for Windows are *not* Free Software. Ahm... I think that Windows itself is a problem for Free Software Purists :). Hehe. -- Shachar Or | שחר אור http://ox.freeallweb.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Friday 18 July 2008 00:21:23 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm rather content with virtualbox-ose, but you have to be careful to run a kernel with all the pieces needed (linux-image + virtualbox-ose-modules to match). I'm currently running a -486 kernel Can't the modules be built with module-assistant? Sun owns this now so thing may change to be more standard in the debian package. Who knows. One builds the module /etc/init.d/vboxdrv setup (as root) Vbox will not boot a number of things. No success with the little slackware delilinux which would be the best VM for those of us without gigas of memory. Haiku (beOP) and reactos also will fail. Qemu will run most anything and without the need of guest-modules which may or may not be available for the target guest or may or may not install their successfully. Qemu presents standard hardware. Xen will run linux--no windows. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
David Baron wrote: Xen will run linux--no windows. I believe Xen runs Windows easily if your CPU supports the virtualization scheme. Only then can something unchanged run within Xen. HTH Carsten -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
David Baron wrote: Qemu will run most anything and without the need of guest-modules which may or may not be available for the target guest or may or may not install their successfully. Qemu presents standard hardware. Qemu is also dog slow since it is virtualizing everything instead of paravirtualizing like the other options are. Xen will run linux--no windows. False. Xen on an AMD-V or VT-x capable CPU will run Windows. In fact VirtualBox and VirtualPC both are now capable of using those extensions to speed up their performance. For my (non-)money I'd go for VirtualBox for the ease-of-use vs. licensing/performance. I'd love to get Xen working for my router box but I doubt that'll happen any time soon. For just user-grade virtualization VB is dead-sexy-simple to run and use. Also, for those who are not so worried about FOSS but want to remain legal-and-free-as-in-bear their non-FOSS license is hard to beat. From http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Licensing_FAQ here is item 6 (*** emphasis mine): What exactly do you mean by personal use and academic use in the Personal Use and Evaluation License? ***Personal use is when you install the product on one or more PCs yourself and you make use of it (or even your friend, sister and grandmother). It doesn't matter whether you just use it for fun or run your multi-million euro business with it. Also, if you install it on your work PC at some large company, this is still personal use.*** However, if you are an administrator and want to deploy it to the 500 desktops in your company, this would not qualify as personal use. Well, you could ask each of your 500 employees to install VirtualBox but don't you think we deserve some money in this case? We'd even assist you with any issue you might have. Normally personal use is a euphemism for non-commercial use. The fact they spell out the difference and explicitly state that you can use it for personal commercial use, even inside a company, just makes the easy-to-use version quite sweet. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:02:30AM +0300, Shachar Or wrote: For Free Software purists, note that while there's a GPL version of VirtualBox itself, the Guest Additions for Windows are *not* Free Software. Ahm... I think that Windows itself is a problem for Free Software Purists :). Hehe. A point. A distinct point. Maybe people should be looking at ReactOS? http://www.reactos.org -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations! Stupid mistakes you can correct! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
--On torsdag, juli 17, 2008 16.08.49 -0500 Kent West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eugene V. Lyubimkin wrote: H.S. wrote: So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. I was succesfully used kvm and qemu. There is also 'virtualbox-ose' in Debian archive. I'm rather content with virtualbox-ose, but you have to be careful to run a kernel with all the pieces needed (linux-image + virtualbox-ose-modules to match). I'm currently running a -486 kernel instead of the -amd64 I would prefer to run because of this, but, meh. I am currently running the free as in beer- version of openbox flawlessly in etch/amd64. There is even a .deb for it iirc. Good luck! // Emil -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
Le Friday 18 July 2008 07:44:04 Volkan YAZICI, vous avez écrit : On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, H.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. We have been running Windows Server 2003 production systems on top of qemu (with kvm support) in Debian GNU/Linux (etch) without a problem and it performs unexpectedly well. Regards. Interesting ! What kvm and kernel version do you use with Etch ? Do you use standard packages, backported ones ? From backports.org or by yourself ? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
virtual machine choices in Debian
Hello, Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. Thanks. -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 04:48:14PM -0400, H.S. wrote: Hello, Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_machines is a start. I've used Qemu to run windows xp with no problems other than it's slow. I use xen to run my server with three domU's (all etch on an etch dom0), works great, though is probably overkill. It can be a little fragile on a reboot, and definitely took a lot of learning to get it all running properly. A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 H.S. wrote: Hello, Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. Thanks. -HS I was succesfully used kvm and qemu. There is also 'virtualbox-ose' in Debian archive. - -- Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF, Ukrainian C++ developer. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIf7EJchorMMFUmYwRApd3AJ9qpx0E+BTC/j/Y3z6YQS9zjZsNqgCfcqUo n8ZmGrITG/icjJlR6YF6vN4= =0oBF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Thursday 17 July 2008 04:48:14 pm H.S. wrote: Hello, Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. Thanks. -HS VMServer is still free of cost to use. VMWorkstation gives you some more features and you need to purchase it. Both will work on Debian. XEN is open source and is free of cost to use. It provides most if not all of the features of VMServer/workstations and most of the benifits of ESX/Virtual Center. XEN is more like ESX then VMServer, you boot Xen as your OS, then you have separate vms running, interacting with the hardward. The GUI config tools are not as sophisticated as ESX/Virtual Center, but the cost is much much lower and you don't have to be concerned with licencing issues.. I have not used XEN yet, I only researched it recently. Virtual box http://www.virtualbox.org/ That is all I know on the subject, HTH. -- Damon L. Chesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
Eugene V. Lyubimkin wrote: H.S. wrote: So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. I was succesfully used kvm and qemu. There is also 'virtualbox-ose' in Debian archive. I'm rather content with virtualbox-ose, but you have to be careful to run a kernel with all the pieces needed (linux-image + virtualbox-ose-modules to match). I'm currently running a -486 kernel instead of the -amd64 I would prefer to run because of this, but, meh. -- Kent West *))) http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
Damon L. Chesser wrote: VMServer is still free of cost to use. VMWorkstation gives you some more er ... What is the difference between the two? (sorry, not much experience with VM stuff). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
Kent West wrote: I'm rather content with virtualbox-ose, but you have to be careful to run a kernel with all the pieces needed (linux-image + virtualbox-ose-modules to match). I'm currently running a -486 kernel Can't the modules be built with module-assistant? -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
H.S. wrote: Hello, Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. Thanks. -HS If you're going to be scripting the virtual machines and doing a lot of fancy image construction/manipulation I'd recommend qemu. It's on-disk file format is very flexible and easy to customize. Otherwise, if you're just looking for something to run Windows under a Linux GUI environment, I recommend VirtualBox. -david -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
Kent West wrote : Eugene V. Lyubimkin wrote: H.S. wrote: So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. I was succesfully used kvm and qemu. There is also 'virtualbox-ose' in Debian archive. I'm rather content with virtualbox-ose, but you have to be careful to run a kernel with all the pieces needed (linux-image + virtualbox-ose-modules to match). I'm currently running a -486 kernel instead of the -amd64 I would prefer to run because of this, but, meh. I'm happily using kvm for both casual testing from iso and running a test server : it's lightweight, fast, highly tweakable and has never misbehaved. Since it's now included in the kernel there is no need for module updating after a kernel upgrade or any other vm-breaking features. If the lack of an UI is a problem for you, and outside of virt-manager which I don't know, you can use Qemulator with a bit of tweaking : in the preferences just change the path to executable to /usr/bin/kvm for both x86 and x86_64 arch and remove references to Qemu. Leaves the use kqemu preference as is, it will default to kvm if kqemu isn't loaded (any other choice would mess things by adding some arguments to the command line which kvm wouldn't understand). Happy kvm ! Tom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
H.S. wrote: Damon L. Chesser wrote: VMServer is still free of cost to use. VMWorkstation gives you some more er ... What is the difference between the two? (sorry, not much experience with VM stuff). One thing that is different (at least in VMware server 1.0.X) is that VMware server does not allow multiple snapshots, VMware Workstation does. -- Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. -- Robert Heinlein Eduardo M KALINOWSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://move.to/hpkb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Friday 18 July 2008 00:23, David Barrett wrote: Otherwise, if you're just looking for something to run Windows under a Linux GUI environment, I recommend VirtualBox. +1 to that. Love VirtualBox There's the latest version in backports. The Guest Additions for Windows are fantastic. -- Shachar Or | שחר אור http://ox.freeallweb.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 02:13:16AM +0300, Shachar Or wrote: On Friday 18 July 2008 00:23, David Barrett wrote: Otherwise, if you're just looking for something to run Windows under a Linux GUI environment, I recommend VirtualBox. +1 to that. Love VirtualBox There's the latest version in backports. The Guest Additions for Windows are fantastic. I use VirtualBox, too, partly because when I was installing neither qemu nor xen would work on Testing without more fiddling than I had time for. It works well. For Free Software purists, note that while there's a GPL version of VirtualBox itself, the Guest Additions for Windows are *not* Free Software. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations! Stupid mistakes you can correct! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual machine choices in Debian
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, H.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Many months ago I had first installed a virtual machine, VMWare. I used it for a few months and then never touched. IIRC, it was free for students back then. This week I looked it up again (I still have the virtual machines installed) and wanted to reinstall the new version of VMWare Desktop. I noticed that it is not free anymore but comes with a 30 day trial feature. So, what free and preferably open source choices do we have for virtual machines in Debian? Pros and cons based on your experiences will be appreciated. We have been running Windows Server 2003 production systems on top of qemu (with kvm support) in Debian GNU/Linux (etch) without a problem and it performs unexpectedly well. Regards. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
