Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
>> Most of those ARM SBCs come with a µSD slot plus other things. >> Even if you connect a SATA disk, you'll often need a µSD because some >> of those SBCs don't have any on-board flash memory, so you need the µSD >> to hold the U-Boot (which plays the role of the BIOS) without which the >> board doesn't even know how to read from the SATA disk. > I see. Being able to replace the memory that holds the bootloader makes > perfect sense. That's even a feature I would pay extra for. Yup: µSD cards tend to suck when compared to SATA devices, but when you compare them to on-board flash holding BIOS and other such read-only firmware, they rock! Stefan
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Stefan Monnier wrote: > Most of those ARM SBCs come with a µSD slot plus other things. > Even if you connect a SATA disk, you'll often need a µSD because some > of those SBCs don't have any on-board flash memory, so you need the µSD > to hold the U-Boot (which plays the role of the BIOS) without which the > board doesn't even know how to read from the SATA disk. I see. Being able to replace the memory that holds the bootloader makes perfect sense. That's even a feature I would pay extra for. Björn Persson pgpeO2iKh3u5U.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Björn Persson wrote: > Yes, some kind of disk access problem seems likely, seeing that the > disk activity light gets stuck on. This SATA SSD is the one and only > storage device in the box, and the bios and Grub read it just fine, but > maybe Linux somehow can't. I suggested to try booting without systemd and if it does not work with init=/bin/sh - then try find out what is missing. I recall problem with udev not createing devices, but could be anything - the only way to find out is to get into the boot/initrd shell. It could be also you are missing drivers in the initrd - but therea re so many possible reasons for failure, I would not speculate on them - just go into the shell and try find out what is the issue. regards
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Quoting Björn Persson (2019-05-05 18:05:59) > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Quoting Björn Persson (2019-05-02 15:07:00) > > > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > > > Most but not all areas that Geode CPUs previously covered, > > > > nowadays is covered by ARM SoCs. You may find this useful: > > > > https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware > > > > > > Something ARM-based might well be a candidate, yes. Thanks for the > > > list, but its requirements are partially different from mine. For > > > example a microSD slot isn't a hard requirement for me. > > > > Not sure why you emphasize MicroSD - it just happens to be the > > storage type most common among cheap ARM boards. > > Maybe it's only because I'm not familiar with the ARM world. I think > of memory cards as a removable medium that's used for copying files > between devices – especially from a camera to a computer. I tend to > assume that permanently mounted storage devices use SATA (unless > requirements are so high that NVME or SAS is used). If there are > quality microSD cards nowadays that are performant and reliable enough > to replace a disk or SSD, then I suppose I could use that. > > When I see "uSD slot, easy accessible" in a bulleted list of what > looks like requirements, then I get the impression that any device > that lacks a microSD slot, or where it's not easy to access, would be > excluded. I wouldn't reject an otherwise promising computer just > because it has a SATA disk instead of a microSD card, and I don't mind > using a screwdriver if I need to replace a hard disk. That's all I > meant. Makes good sense. Thanks for elaborating. The referenced wiki page targets devices usable for non-technical users - it was established for the FreedomBox project at first, but have seen more broad use since then. That item about easy accessible MicroSD card specifically is because a) cheap ARM SBCs (single board computers) typically require MicroSD for _booting_ even when equipped with SATA and USB port (for comparison with IBM-compatible computers think "which device can BIOS be loaded from"), and b) an early reference device for the FreedomBox project - GuruPlug - had its MicroSD card behind a seal, so even if users are able to operate a screwdriver if flashing went wrong then resetting involved "breaking the seal". - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
> When I see "uSD slot, easy accessible" in a bulleted list of what looks > like requirements, then I get the impression that any device that lacks > a microSD slot, or where it's not easy to access, would be excluded. I > wouldn't reject an otherwise promising computer just because it has a > SATA disk instead of a microSD card, and I don't mind using a > screwdriver if I need to replace a hard disk. That's all I meant. Most of those ARM SBCs come with a µSD slot plus other things. Even if you connect a SATA disk, you'll often need a µSD because some of those SBCs don't have any on-board flash memory, so you need the µSD to hold the U-Boot (which plays the role of the BIOS) without which the board doesn't even know how to read from the SATA disk. IOW it's not "SATA or µSD?" but rather "does it support SATA (additionally to µSD)?" Stefan
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Björn Persson (2019-05-02 15:07:00) > > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > > Most but not all areas that Geode CPUs previously covered, nowadays > > > is covered by ARM SoCs. You may find this useful: > > > https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware > > > > Something ARM-based might well be a candidate, yes. Thanks for the > > list, but its requirements are partially different from mine. For > > example a microSD slot isn't a hard requirement for me. > > Not sure why you emphasize MicroSD - it just happens to be the storage > type most common among cheap ARM boards. Maybe it's only because I'm not familiar with the ARM world. I think of memory cards as a removable medium that's used for copying files between devices – especially from a camera to a computer. I tend to assume that permanently mounted storage devices use SATA (unless requirements are so high that NVME or SAS is used). If there are quality microSD cards nowadays that are performant and reliable enough to replace a disk or SSD, then I suppose I could use that. When I see "uSD slot, easy accessible" in a bulleted list of what looks like requirements, then I get the impression that any device that lacks a microSD slot, or where it's not easy to access, would be excluded. I wouldn't reject an otherwise promising computer just because it has a SATA disk instead of a microSD card, and I don't mind using a screwdriver if I need to replace a hard disk. That's all I meant. Björn Persson pgpn0YQwT1ViJ.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
deloptes wrote: > I do not see in the log > assignment to the disk, so I suspect the hard drive is not assigned > properly and can not be accessed - are you booting from a card, or disk or > usb? What if you try to disable pata_amd? > > [6.114215] ata1: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x1f0 ctl 0x3f6 bmdma 0xe000 irq > 14 > [6.156075] ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0xe008 irq > 15 > ... > ... > [6.407833] ata1.00: supports DRM functions and may not be fully > accessible > [6.449569] ata1.00: ATA-9: Samsung SSD 850 PRO 1TB, EXM02B6Q, max > UDMA/133 > [6.491306] ata1.00: 2000409264 sectors, multi 1: LBA48 NCQ (depth 0/32) > > and nothing like sda or hda. Yes, some kind of disk access problem seems likely, seeing that the disk activity light gets stuck on. This SATA SSD is the one and only storage device in the box, and the bios and Grub read it just fine, but maybe Linux somehow can't. Björn Persson pgpOyVFWO87QZ.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
I've been trying various kernel command line parameters that have been suggested in this thread. None of these made any noticeable difference: · acpi=off · systemd.restore_state=0 · init=/lib/sysvinit/init · init=/bin/sh I also found a parameter called initcall_debug that seemed like it might provide more data, but that didn't lead anywhere either. Even with init=/bin/sh I still see the string "starting version 232" – which is the version number of SystemD – and "uninitialized urandom read" messages that mention systemd-udevd and udevadm. Fortunately the presence or absence of "quiet" has an obvious effect. Otherwise I would have started to think that Grub ignored my changes to the command line. Unpacking and examining initrd.img-4.9.0-9-686 I find that /sbin/init is actually Busybox. So is /bin/sh, so that might explain why they both do the same thing. /lib/sysvinit/init doesn't exist in the initrd, but apparently Busybox gets started anyway. (Perhaps Linux falls back on the default if the requested init program doesn't exist?) It seems that I'll have to hack the initrd somehow if I am to get at a shell and poke around in the initrd environment. Booting from USB has been suggested several times. I'll do that if someone can tell me the magic incantation that makes Combios boot a USB device. I doubt it's possible. PXE booting is supposed to work. Maybe some day in a few weeks or months I'll find the time to set up a boot server. Björn Persson pgpNeGHHDane1.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Thu 02 May 2019 at 23:33:06 +0200, Francesco Poli wrote: > On Thu, 2 May 2019 20:49:28 +0100 Brian wrote: > > [...] > > In #917569 > > > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=917569 > > > > Francesco Poli treats upgrading one buster Soekris net5501 installation > > to another one. This implies he might very well have been running that > > device on stretch. Or, for that matter, running on a previous buster. > > > > I have previously found Francesco to be very co-operative, so I have put > > him in a Cc:. > > Hello! :-) > I am afraid I will disappoint you a bit this time... :-p Not at all. You have provided exactly the quality of information needed. > The only thing I can say is that I run Debian testing on my Soekris > net5501. The box has always tracked Debian testing, hence it only used > to run stretch when stretch was testing (that is to say, *before* > stretch was released as stable). It currently runs an updated buster > (== current Debian testing) and the Linux kernel is able to boot. Björn has exactly the same machine as you. You use yours on buster; he cannot even use it on stretch. Aren't computers wonderful? :) > I don't know whether the bug I reported (#917569) against > linux/4.19.12-1 corresponds to the same issue that Björn is > experiencing with linux/4.9.168-1 (#928340)... > > I am sorry I cannot be of more help. My machine doesn't differ in any significant way from Björn's. You motivated me to to upgrade from stretch, where it worked, to buster. No problem booting, so my answer to the subject header (Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?) is a resounding "yes". -- Brian.
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Thu, 2 May 2019 20:49:28 +0100 Brian wrote: [...] > In #917569 > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=917569 > > Francesco Poli treats upgrading one buster Soekris net5501 installation > to another one. This implies he might very well have been running that > device on stretch. Or, for that matter, running on a previous buster. > > I have previously found Francesco to be very co-operative, so I have put > him in a Cc:. Hello! :-) I am afraid I will disappoint you a bit this time... :-p The only thing I can say is that I run Debian testing on my Soekris net5501. The box has always tracked Debian testing, hence it only used to run stretch when stretch was testing (that is to say, *before* stretch was released as stable). It currently runs an updated buster (== current Debian testing) and the Linux kernel is able to boot. I don't know whether the bug I reported (#917569) against linux/4.19.12-1 corresponds to the same issue that Björn is experiencing with linux/4.9.168-1 (#928340)... I am sorry I cannot be of more help. -- http://www.inventati.org/frx/ There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE pgpY6kbCjItHU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Björn Persson wrote: > bw wrote: >> Before you dump it, I'd sure confirm the situation, document the flags >> and file a bug against the release notes, so maybe that can get fixed in >> buster release notes? > > I filed this bug report: > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=928340 > > Björn Persson Have you tried command line init=/lib/sysvinit/init? This is to rule out systemd Next thing I would do is try boot from usb - I do not see in the log assignment to the disk, so I suspect the hard drive is not assigned properly and can not be accessed - are you booting from a card, or disk or usb? What if you try to disable pata_amd? [6.114215] ata1: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x1f0 ctl 0x3f6 bmdma 0xe000 irq 14 [6.156075] ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0xe008 irq 15 ... ... [6.407833] ata1.00: supports DRM functions and may not be fully accessible [6.449569] ata1.00: ATA-9: Samsung SSD 850 PRO 1TB, EXM02B6Q, max UDMA/133 [6.491306] ata1.00: 2000409264 sectors, multi 1: LBA48 NCQ (depth 0/32) and nothing like sda or hda. In my case exactly this was the problem, so I had to enable old drivers for hdd in combination with libata so that it might work - took me ages to find out, but you have a newer generation, could be different, although Processor family (Geode GX/LX) is the same - it says "Select this for AMD Geode GX and LX processors.". <*> ATA/ATAPI/MFM/RLL support (DEPRECATED) ---> <*> generic ATA/ATAPI disk support [*] ATA disk support [*] legacy /proc/ide/ support Cyrix/National Semiconductor CS5530 MediaGX chipset support I could give you the kernel packages if you wish, but can not guarantee, it would work. If you can tell what is your chipset - I could let it configure and compile, if you wish. Another option is that you miss something in the initrd - if you can enter initrd (init=/bin/sh) and debug would be a +. regards
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Thu 02 May 2019 at 15:27:30 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Björn Persson (2019-05-02 15:04:53) > > bw wrote: > > > Before you dump it, I'd sure confirm the situation, document the > > > flags and file a bug against the release notes, so maybe that can > > > get fixed in buster release notes? > > > > I filed this bug report: > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=928340 > > Great, detailed yet precise bugreport! > > I sincerely hope the response won't the equivalent of "whoops too bad, > train left the station a bit too early but is now gone...!" Ben Hutchings replies: > The Geode LX's CPUID has family=5 (586), but I agree with your > understanding that it has all the important features of a 686 and > should still be supported. In fact, I've specifically enabled > continued support for it in the current (buster/sid) 686 kernel > configuration. > > I'm afraid I don't have any immediate ideas for how to fix or debug > this. >From my point of view (as I have said before) debugging would involve installing to a USB stick. There is nothing to lose by trying this. In #917569 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=917569 Francesco Poli treats upgrading one buster Soekris net5501 installation to another one. This implies he might very well have been running that device on stretch. Or, for that matter, running on a previous buster. I have previously found Francesco to be very co-operative, so I have put him in a Cc:. -- Brian.
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Quoting Björn Persson (2019-05-02 15:07:00) > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Most but not all areas that Geode CPUs previously covered, nowadays > > is covered by ARM SoCs. You may find this useful: > > https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware > > Something ARM-based might well be a candidate, yes. Thanks for the > list, but its requirements are partially different from mine. For > example a microSD slot isn't a hard requirement for me. Not sure why you emphasize MicroSD - it just happens to be the storage type most common among cheap ARM boards. I have no particular love relationship with MicroSD cards, just want my machines to _boot_ :-) After quite some years running fanless Mini-ITX boards, I have since 2010 exploring the cheaper end of ARM boards. If you care to elaborate what are your priorities, then I am curious to try compare that to (my knowledge of) cheap ARM devices. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Quoting Björn Persson (2019-05-02 15:04:53) > bw wrote: > > Before you dump it, I'd sure confirm the situation, document the > > flags and file a bug against the release notes, so maybe that can > > get fixed in buster release notes? > > I filed this bug report: > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=928340 Great, detailed yet precise bugreport! I sincerely hope the response won't the equivalent of "whoops too bad, train left the station a bit too early but is now gone...!" - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Most but not all areas that Geode CPUs previously covered, nowadays is > covered by ARM SoCs. You may find this useful: > https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware Something ARM-based might well be a candidate, yes. Thanks for the list, but its requirements are partially different from mine. For example a microSD slot isn't a hard requirement for me. Björn Persson pgpic3Us88oXE.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Michael Lange wrote: > maybe you can try to use kernel packages from Antix, they seem to be > debian compatible and still have 486 versions > (see: https://mirror.23media.com/mx-packages/antix/stretch/pool/main/l/) Hmm, possibly an option to consider. At a glance I don't see a way to combine repositories to get only the kernel from Antix. Björn Persson pgpnaW3EVBrbX.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
bw wrote: > Before you dump it, I'd sure confirm the situation, document the flags and > file a bug against the release notes, so maybe that can get fixed in > buster release notes? I filed this bug report: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=928340 Björn Persson pgpnminCguCUR.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
In-Reply-To: <1556516871.1480.1.ca...@yxit.co.uk> > >All your mails to the list seem to be a little broken. You are right, they are, but it's not alpine mail's fault. It's because I am replying through the list archive link through the browser, with a hacked script to try and rewrite the header, and I haven't fully figured it out yet. alpine won't use the entire mailto: in-reply-to, or subj: link when called. It only takes an address when started this way. alpine works fine when subscribed and answering through it, and adds the references correctly, but I prefer to use the web for now to read the list. I'll stop answering because you guys all seem to have things under control, thanks. I apologize for the annoyance. bw
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On 2019-04-29, Thomas Pircher wrote: > Curt wrote: >> Maybe that lead-in violates some RFC, although you'd think what's in the >> header's in the header and what ain't ain't and ne'er the twain shall >> meet. >> >> At any rate, bw threads fine here, so it must be you (or me). > > It's you -- or rather bw's MUA, I'm afraid. :-) > His mails don't thread in neomutt neither, specifically because the > headers sent by his MUA don't include neither the Reference nor the > In-Reply-To fields. I now understand that bw's mails do not comprise those thread-critical fields. As an Alpine user myself, I can only wonder how he manages it, and, more particularly, why he manages it. I guess my slrn news client (I read the list through an NTTP host) must work it out via the 'Subject:' line (as suggested by Tixy elsewhere), threading acceptably even in the absence of the missing fields. Whether this whole business has any relation to the custom lead-in string in his email bodies is a matter for conjecture. A bientôt. > Thomas > > -- The major, who had been a great fencer, did not believe in bravery, and spent much time while we sat in the machines correcting my grammar. He had complimented me on how I spoke Italian, and we talked together very easily. One day I had said that Italian seemed such an easy language to me that I could not take a great interest in it; everything was so easy to say. "Ah, yes," the major said. "Why, then, do you not take up the use of grammar?" - "Another Country"
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Tixy wrote: > I'm guessing the archive is falling back to threading by > matching the subject line, as with Curt's MUA? The Debian list admins will have a more authoritative answer then mine, but I searched a bit about "possible follow-ups" in and this [1] old posting by the author of MHonArc confirms your guess. Thomas [1] https://www.mhonarc.org/archive/html/mhonarc-users/1999-02/msg00029.html
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Mon, 2019-04-29 at 09:08 +0100, Thomas Pircher wrote: > Curt wrote: > > Maybe that lead-in violates some RFC, although you'd think what's > > in the > > header's in the header and what ain't ain't and ne'er the twain > > shall > > meet. > > > > At any rate, bw threads fine here, so it must be you (or me). > > It's you -- or rather bw's MUA, I'm afraid. :-) > His mails don't thread in neomutt neither, specifically because the > headers sent by his MUA don't include neither the Reference nor the > In-Reply-To fields. Yes, I checked that before posting. I also checked the web archives [1] where all of bw's messages appear under a "" heading. I'm guessing the archive is falling back to threading by matching the subject line, as with Curt's MUA? [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/04/thrd3.html -- Tixy
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Sun 28 Apr 2019 at 21:54:46 +0200, Björn Persson wrote: > Björn Persson wrote: > > Brian wrote: > > > brian@futro:~$ uname -a > > > Linux futro 4.9.0-7-686 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.110-3+deb9u1 (2018-08-03) i586 > > > GNU/Linux > > > > That's an older Linux than I got. Perhaps I could try that package, if > > I can get hold of it. > > I've installed linux-image-4.9.0-7-686. It hangs in the same way as the > later versions. I don't know why it works for you and not for me. I upgraded to the newest stretch kernel (4.9.0-9-686); still boots. I'd be inclined to install stretch on a USB stick; base system only and then GRUB. A booting failure would motivate me to stick with a working kernel. -- Brian.
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Curt wrote: > Maybe that lead-in violates some RFC, although you'd think what's in the > header's in the header and what ain't ain't and ne'er the twain shall > meet. > > At any rate, bw threads fine here, so it must be you (or me). It's you -- or rather bw's MUA, I'm afraid. :-) His mails don't thread in neomutt neither, specifically because the headers sent by his MUA don't include neither the Reference nor the In-Reply-To fields. Thomas
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On 2019-04-29, Tixy wrote:
> Hi bw
>
> On Sun, 2019-04-28 at 18:52 -0400, bw wrote:
>> In-Reply-To: <20190428235815.09cfe...@tag.xn--rombobjrn-67a.se>
>
> All your mails to the list seem to be a little broken. The first line
> of each email starts with a line like the above and your replies aren't
> appearing threaded correctly, presumably because that line should be in
> the email headers not the body. Guess this is a bug with your mail user
> agent (Alpine) and not something specific you are doing?
>
It is not a bug in Alpine. It is not a bug at all. It is an intentional
user configuration ('Reply Leadin' parameter). It is also not a
'Reply-To' header that somehow got lowered or dropped into the email
body by inadvertence or wrong-headed design.
Apparently, the 'In-Reply-To' string must educe some deficiency (or
confusion) in the Evolution software you use, however.
Maybe that lead-in violates some RFC, although you'd think what's in the
header's in the header and what ain't ain't and ne'er the twain shall
meet.
At any rate, bw threads fine here, so it must be you (or me).
--
The major, who had been a great fencer, did not believe in bravery, and spent
much time while we sat in the machines correcting my grammar. He had
complimented me on how I spoke Italian, and we talked together very easily. One
day I had said that Italian seemed such an easy language to me that I could not
take a great interest in it; everything was so easy to say. "Ah, yes," the
major said. "Why, then, do you not take up the use of grammar?" - "Another
Country"
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Quoting deloptes (2019-04-29 08:24:33) > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Most but not all areas that Geode CPUs previously covered, nowadays > > is covered by ARM SoCs. You may find this useful: > > https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware [...] > And thank you for the link BTW - I wish I have seen this 15y ago :) I sure would have, if only I had known you back then and that list had existed - but we started it only 8 years ago (with the FreedomBox project): https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware?action=info :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Yes, if you want to continue use Debian then should indeed look for > replacement: Geode CPUs is clearly on its way out (if it hasn't happened > already - posibly by accident). > I would say here unfortunately. > As others write, you obviously have the alternative of deviating from > Debian - either by using packages provided by others or local > recompilations of your own. Beware that it quite likely involves not > only kernel but also other packages. > Kernel is a must for sure, but packages ... it depends on how they utilize i686 features. For my usecase I relay on kernel features (iptables, aes, tun) and all of them are provided. The OPs case might be different though > Most but not all areas that Geode CPUs previously covered, nowadays is > covered by ARM SoCs. You may find this useful: > https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware The advantage of Geode is that it is 386 - it is easy to compile/develop/maintain. And thank you for the link BTW - I wish I have seen this 15y ago :) regards
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Quoting Björn Persson (2019-04-28 23:58:15) > So if this processor is actually not supported anymore (contrary to > the information that Jonas Smedegaard linked to), then it looks like I > should get started on replacing the hardware, rather than putting a > lot of work into temporary solutions. It's sad to have to throw away > working hardware, but that's the way it is in the whole industry. > Debian is at least better than many others in that regard. Yes, if you want to continue use Debian then should indeed look for replacement: Geode CPUs is clearly on its way out (if it hasn't happened already - posibly by accident). As others write, you obviously have the alternative of deviating from Debian - either by using packages provided by others or local recompilations of your own. Beware that it quite likely involves not only kernel but also other packages. Most but not all areas that Geode CPUs previously covered, nowadays is covered by ARM SoCs. You may find this useful: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Hi bw On Sun, 2019-04-28 at 18:52 -0400, bw wrote: > In-Reply-To: <20190428235815.09cfe...@tag.xn--rombobjrn-67a.se> All your mails to the list seem to be a little broken. The first line of each email starts with a line like the above and your replies aren't appearing threaded correctly, presumably because that line should be in the email headers not the body. Guess this is a bug with your mail user agent (Alpine) and not something specific you are doing? -- Tixy
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Björn Persson wrote: > So if this processor is actually not supported anymore (contrary to the > information that Jonas Smedegaard linked to), then it looks like I > should get started on replacing the hardware, rather than putting a lot > of work into temporary solutions. It's sad to have to throw away > working hardware, but that's the way it is in the whole industry. > Debian is at least better than many others in that regard. It is not supported by Debian, but you can build the kernel easily, because it is supported by the kernel. Advantage is you customize to your hardware (just know what drivers you need for what hardware/chipset) 1. debootstrap a 386 debian 2. chroot and update/install whatever you need 3. download unzip kernel code 4. configure make ARCH=i386 menuconfig 5. build make -j4 ARCH=i386 deb-pkg voila, you have your debian packages dpkg -i ... the easiest way to test for me was boot via tftp, if your one supports PXE PS: systemd was overkill and it never worked here, using init
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Hi, On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:58:15 +0200 Björn Persson wrote: > So if this processor is actually not supported anymore (contrary to the > information that Jonas Smedegaard linked to), then it looks like I > should get started on replacing the hardware, rather than putting a lot > of work into temporary solutions. It's sad to have to throw away > working hardware, but that's the way it is in the whole industry. > Debian is at least better than many others in that regard. maybe you can try to use kernel packages from Antix, they seem to be debian compatible and still have 486 versions (see: https://mirror.23media.com/mx-packages/antix/stretch/pool/main/l/) Regards Michael .-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-. I thought my people would grow tired of killing. But you were right, they see it is easier than trading. And it has its pleasures. I feel it myself. Like the hunt, but with richer rewards. -- Apella, "A Private Little War", stardate 4211.8
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
bw wrote: > p.s. In the past I always tested a live system before upgrading, or > installing a new release, even though it is not suggested in the release > notes about upgrading. IMHO, it is a good idea to always use a live > system for awhile and read some manpages on the machine. There's really > no practical way to cover every situation in the documentation. This is a small headless box. It has no CD drive or anything like that. There is one USB port, but finding out how to boot it from USB would be a major research project, if it's even possible. The BIOS is a rather minimal thing that can only be accessed over a DE-9 serial port. I was also running short on time. I got a message from Let's Encrypt that they were withdrawing the validation method I was using, forcing me to upgrade Certbot, and a sufficiently recent Certbot wasn't available for Debian 8. Other urgent problems had been taking up most of my time, and my certificates were about to expire. Therefore I decided that the quickest solution was to copy the entire SSD to a new one, installing the new SSD, and doing the upgrade to find out whether it would work. It did work well enough that I got the certificates renewed, so the immediate crisis is successfully averted. Now I have a slightly less urgent crisis instead. I can still roll back by putting the old SSD back and copying over the certificates and other data, but then I'll have to install and maintain an unpackaged Certbot, if possible, or find another ACME client that works, and I'll still have to move away from Debian 8 within 14 months. So if this processor is actually not supported anymore (contrary to the information that Jonas Smedegaard linked to), then it looks like I should get started on replacing the hardware, rather than putting a lot of work into temporary solutions. It's sad to have to throw away working hardware, but that's the way it is in the whole industry. Debian is at least better than many others in that regard. Björn Persson pgpDNTiNNbv6z.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Geode does not have the full i686 instruction set. (Something about NOPL) Try i486 Apparently faster than i586. This is from memory and depends on GX or LX some say compile with flags |-march=i486 -mtune=geode| Or just use x86. :) On 28/04/2019 20:54, Björn Persson wrote: Björn Persson wrote: Brian wrote: brian@futro:~$ uname -a Linux futro 4.9.0-7-686 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.110-3+deb9u1 (2018-08-03) i586 GNU/Linux That's an older Linux than I got. Perhaps I could try that package, if I can get hold of it. I've installed linux-image-4.9.0-7-686. It hangs in the same way as the later versions. I don't know why it works for you and not for me. Björn Persson
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Björn Persson wrote: > deloptes wrote: >> I have latest kernel custom build > > Built by you? Or does somebody publish custom kernels for Debian on > Geode? > to be exact I configured and the computer build, but for the record - built by me. >> and I am on the geode mailing list. > > What mailing list? gmane.linux.port.geode
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Björn Persson wrote: > Brian wrote: > > brian@futro:~$ uname -a > > Linux futro 4.9.0-7-686 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.110-3+deb9u1 (2018-08-03) i586 > > GNU/Linux > > That's an older Linux than I got. Perhaps I could try that package, if > I can get hold of it. I've installed linux-image-4.9.0-7-686. It hangs in the same way as the later versions. I don't know why it works for you and not for me. Björn Persson pgp5RvmYINmjn.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
deloptes wrote: > I have latest kernel custom build Built by you? Or does somebody publish custom kernels for Debian on Geode? > and I am on the geode mailing list. What mailing list? Björn Persson pgpeRWBfUGQIO.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
bw wrote: > You tested a live 686 image, or the installer? I followed these instructions: https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.html Björn Persson pgpUGMBHO1h__.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > The officially supported CPUs - and how to check if yours is covered: > https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-information.da.html#i386-is-now-almost-i686 According to that test my processor should be OK. It has all of those flags. Brian wrote: > If it helps, 'cat /proc/cpuinfo" for my running Fujitsu Siemens A250 is: > > processor : 0 > vendor_id : AuthenticAMD > cpu family : 5 > model : 10 > model name : Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by AMD PCS > stepping: 2 > cpu MHz : 498.046 > cache size : 128 KB > physical id : 0 > siblings: 1 > core id : 0 > cpu cores : 1 > apicid : 0 > initial apicid : 0 > fdiv_bug: no > f00f_bug: no > coma_bug: no > fpu : yes > fpu_exception : yes > cpuid level : 1 > wp : yes > flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 sep pge cmov clflush mmx mmxext > 3dnowext 3dnow 3dnowprefetch vmmcall > bugs: sysret_ss_attrs spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass > bogomips: 996.09 > clflush size: 32 > cache_alignment : 32 > address sizes : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual > power management: Mine is: processor : 0 vendor_id : AuthenticAMD cpu family : 5 model : 10 model name : Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by AMD PCS stepping: 2 microcode : 0x8b cpu MHz : 499.891 cache size : 128 KB fdiv_bug: no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 sep pge cmov clflush mmx mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow vmmcall bogomips: 999.78 clflush size: 32 cache_alignment : 32 address sizes : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual power management: The family, model and stepping numbers are the same. The flags are the same except for 3dnowprefetch. I guess different versions of Linux might explain some differences. So far I've seen two replies saying it should work and two saying it should not, so I'm rather confused at the moment. > brian@futro:~$ uname -a > Linux futro 4.9.0-7-686 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.110-3+deb9u1 (2018-08-03) i586 > GNU/Linux That's an older Linux than I got. Perhaps I could try that package, if I can get hold of it. Björn Persson pgpQ7fnCpjycc.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Brian wrote: > I have seen a reference to its being a Geode LX800. Sorry, I am not > rebooting to look at what the bios says as I do not want to interupt > the services it is operating. This is a GX2 - perhaps someone finds it interesting $ uname -a Linux fw 4.19.25gx2 #2 Wed Mar 20 21:13:42 CET 2019 i586 GNU/Linux $ cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : Geode by NSC cpu family : 5 model : 5 model name : Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by National Semi stepping: 2 cpu MHz : 332.010 fdiv_bug: no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 pge cmov mmx mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow cpuid bugs: cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf bogomips: 664.02 clflush size: 32 cache_alignment : 32 address sizes : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual power management: $ top top - 20:30:06 up 28 days, 19:49, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Tasks: 43 total, 1 running, 24 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 1.1 us, 1.4 sy, 0.0 ni, 97.5 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem : 248988 total, 8948 free,10996 used, 229044 buff/cache KiB Swap: 503996 total, 501684 free, 2312 used. 229208 avail Mem $ cat /proc/modules tun 32768 2 - Live 0x xt_nat 16384 6 - Live 0x geode_aes 16384 0 - Live 0x ^ very nice thermal_sys 32768 0 - Live 0x hwmon 16384 1 thermal_sys, Live 0x xt_state 16384 0 - Live 0x cs5535_mfgpt 16384 0 [permanent], Live 0x board controller gxfb 16384 0 - Live 0x graphic controller cfbfillrect 16384 1 gxfb, Live 0x cfbimgblt 16384 1 gxfb, Live 0x cs5535_mfd 16384 0 - Live 0x ^^ board controller cfbcopyarea 16384 1 gxfb, Live 0x mfd_core 16384 1 cs5535_mfd, Live 0x fb 36864 1 gxfb, Live 0x fbdev 16384 1 fb, Live 0x ipt_REJECT 16384 22 - Live 0x nf_reject_ipv4 16384 1 ipt_REJECT, Live 0x xt_limit 16384 12 - Live 0x nf_log_ipv4 16384 20 - Live 0x nf_log_common 16384 1 nf_log_ipv4, Live 0x xt_LOG 16384 20 - Live 0x xt_conntrack 16384 9 - Live 0x iptable_nat 16384 1 - Live 0x nf_nat_ipv4 16384 1 iptable_nat, Live 0x nf_nat 24576 2 xt_nat,nf_nat_ipv4, Live 0x nf_conntrack 65536 5 xt_nat,xt_state,xt_conntrack,nf_nat_ipv4,nf_nat, Live 0x nf_defrag_ipv6 16384 1 nf_conntrack, Live 0x libcrc32c 16384 2 nf_nat,nf_conntrack, Live 0x nf_defrag_ipv4 16384 1 nf_conntrack, Live 0x iptable_mangle 16384 0 - Live 0x iptable_filter 16384 1 - Live 0x ip_tables 20480 3 iptable_nat,iptable_mangle,iptable_filter, Live 0x ata_generic 16384 0 - Live 0x ^^^ needed for my IDE-CF disk pata_cs5535 16384 0 - Live 0x ^^^ needed for my IDE-CF disk libata 151552 2 ata_generic,pata_cs5535, Live 0x ^^ needed for my IDE-CF disk ohci_pci 16384 0 - Live 0x ehci_pci 16384 0 - Live 0x 8139too 24576 0 - Live 0x mii 16384 1 8139too, Live 0x ohci_hcd 32768 1 ohci_pci, Live 0x ehci_hcd 45056 1 ehci_pci, Live 0x cs5535 16384 3 - Live 0x board controller
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
bw wrote: > In-Reply-To: <20190428184348.390dc...@tag.xn--rombobjrn-67a.se> > [...] >>So my question is: Is the Geode LX among the dropped processors, or is >>the hang a bug that should be fixed? > > You tested a live 686 image, or the installer? Hi, I am running few small firewalls/openvpns on Geode industrial board/PC. I had a lot of pain couple of years ago upgrading to jessie and lenny, because of the kernel and especially because of a chipset for CF on the board. Long story short, I have latest kernel custom build and I am on the geode mailing list. From time to time they push patches, so it looks like support is still alive in some ways. The code is in the kernel and gets the updates. only debian does not bother to build kernel < 686. The 686 image does not work AFAIR, bit i586 fits best. $ uname -a Linux fw 4.19.25gx2 #2 Wed Mar 20 21:13:42 CET 2019 i586 GNU/Linux I did install using debootstrap on the CF many years ago, but I tried recently netboot with the custom kernel as well. All works fine. Let me know if you have specific questions. regards
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Sun 28 Apr 2019 at 19:49:18 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Björn Persson (2019-04-28 18:43:48) > > I have a small server with a Geode processor – Geode LX 500 MHz > > according to the BIOS boot screen – which I needed to upgrade from > > Debian 8 to Debian 9. I know that Debian has dropped support for i586, > > but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to how that > > affects Geodes. What little I could find on the Web seemed to suggest > > that Geodes are mostly like i686, which is supposed to still be > > supported by Debian 9, so I decided to try it, took a backup, and took > > the plunge. > > > > It turns out that the kernel from Debian 9 won't boot. Both Linux > > 4.9.0-8-686 and 4.9.0-9-686 appear to hang early in the boot process. > > Everything else seems to work, so right now I'm running Debian 9 on > > Linux 3.16.0-8-586 from Debian 8. This works for now, but it's > > obviously not a long-term solution. > > > > So my question is: Is the Geode LX among the dropped processors, or is > > the hang a bug that should be fixed? > > The officially supported CPUs - and how to check if yours is covered: > https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-information.da.html#i386-is-now-almost-i686 > > Some background on why the cut is there exactly: > https://lists.debian.org/20161017131747.wbvvhjemegs43...@bunk.spdns.de And also here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/11/msg00565.html If it helps, 'cat /proc/cpuinfo" for my running Fujitsu Siemens A250 is: processor : 0 vendor_id : AuthenticAMD cpu family : 5 model : 10 model name : Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by AMD PCS stepping: 2 cpu MHz : 498.046 cache size : 128 KB physical id : 0 siblings: 1 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 0 initial apicid : 0 fdiv_bug: no f00f_bug: no coma_bug: no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 sep pge cmov clflush mmx mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow 3dnowprefetch vmmcall bugs: sysret_ss_attrs spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass bogomips: 996.09 clflush size: 32 cache_alignment : 32 address sizes : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual power management: brian@futro:~$ uname -a Linux futro 4.9.0-7-686 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.110-3+deb9u1 (2018-08-03) i586 GNU/Linux I have seen a reference to its being a Geode LX800. Sorry, I am not rebooting to look at what the bios says as I do not want to interupt the services it is operating. -- Brian.
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Quoting Björn Persson (2019-04-28 18:43:48) > I have a small server with a Geode processor – Geode LX 500 MHz > according to the BIOS boot screen – which I needed to upgrade from > Debian 8 to Debian 9. I know that Debian has dropped support for i586, > but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to how that > affects Geodes. What little I could find on the Web seemed to suggest > that Geodes are mostly like i686, which is supposed to still be > supported by Debian 9, so I decided to try it, took a backup, and took > the plunge. > > It turns out that the kernel from Debian 9 won't boot. Both Linux > 4.9.0-8-686 and 4.9.0-9-686 appear to hang early in the boot process. > Everything else seems to work, so right now I'm running Debian 9 on > Linux 3.16.0-8-586 from Debian 8. This works for now, but it's > obviously not a long-term solution. > > So my question is: Is the Geode LX among the dropped processors, or is > the hang a bug that should be fixed? The officially supported CPUs - and how to check if yours is covered: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-information.da.html#i386-is-now-almost-i686 Some background on why the cut is there exactly: https://lists.debian.org/20161017131747.wbvvhjemegs43...@bunk.spdns.de - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 19:23:59 +0200 Sven Hartge wrote: Hello Sven, >There has not been a i386 Kernel in Debian for a very long time. Of course; Stupid me. :-) Thx. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" Dream on white boy, dream on black girl Original Sin - INXS pgpZXbL6nrZvf.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Brad Rogers wrote: > On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 18:43:48 +0200 Björn Persson > wrote: >> 4.9.0-8-686 and 4.9.0-9-686 appear to hang early in the boot process. > I'm no expert, (and perhaps I'm being naive) but don't you want a 386 > kernel, not a 686 one? There has not been a i386 Kernel in Debian for a very long time. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
Björn Persson wrote: > I have a small server with a Geode processor – Geode LX 500 MHz > according to the BIOS boot screen – which I needed to upgrade from > Debian 8 to Debian 9. I know that Debian has dropped support for i586, > but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to how that affects > Geodes. What little I could find on the Web seemed to suggest that > Geodes are mostly like i686, which is supposed to still be supported by > Debian 9, so I decided to try it, took a backup, and took the plunge. The Geode LX is missing some CPU instructions to be fully i686-compatible. > It turns out that the kernel from Debian 9 won't boot. Both Linux > 4.9.0-8-686 and 4.9.0-9-686 appear to hang early in the boot process. > Everything else seems to work, so right now I'm running Debian 9 on > Linux 3.16.0-8-586 from Debian 8. This works for now, but it's > obviously not a long-term solution. Even if the Kernel boots, you might find other software which will SIGILL if you try to run it on a Geode LX, because if the missing instructions. > So my question is: Is the Geode LX among the dropped processors, or is > the hang a bug that should be fixed? Geode LX is among the dropped processors, you need at least a Geode NX for Debian Stretch. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.
Re: Is Debian 9 supposed to work on a Geode?
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 18:43:48 +0200 Björn Persson wrote: Hello Björn, >4.9.0-8-686 and 4.9.0-9-686 appear to hang early in the boot process. I'm no expert, (and perhaps I'm being naive) but don't you want a 386 kernel, not a 686 one? -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent" She's taken all my vitamins, used up my lighter fuel Golden Green - Wonder Stuff pgpjZM85W1AMn.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
