Re: maildirmake

[Kevin Mark]

> 
> Upon installing getmail there was a configuration message basically saying 
> getmail doesn't support mbox and that mbox is fraught with peril, and so 
> began my exposure to maildir.
> 
> -- 
> Mike Mueller
> 324881 (08/20/2003)
> Make clockwise circles with your right foot. 
> Now use your right hand to draw the number "6" in the air.
Hi Mike, 
most folks use fetchmail but YMMV. The idea that getmail doesnt support mbox is
fine. In my case, fetchmail hands the mail to procmail and procmail can do mbox and
maildir. so, what fetchmail can do is not important in this case.
-Kev


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Re: maildirmake

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2004-01-15 14:38:14 -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> On Thursday 15 January 2004 02:23, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > SO, if you do:
> > touch /home/$USER/mail/debian-user
> > you have made a mbox

Yes.

> > if you do:
> > mkdir /home/$USER/mail/debian-user
> > you have made a maildir

Not all applications will recognize a maildir. Mutt doesn't (and I think
that it's better like that).

> mbox is a file with each message being an entry into the file
> (there's some sort of index into the file?),

No index, but a "From " line as a separator and the Content-Length
optional header to indicate the message length.

> maildir is a directory system with each mail being a file. (No day
> is a waste when you learn something.)
> 
> procmail must create the /tmp, /cur, /new subdirs.

Yes, according to the man page, it does (or at least tries to create
them).

> Upon installing getmail there was a configuration message basically
> saying getmail doesn't support mbox and that mbox is fraught with
> peril, and so began my exposure to maildir.

Yes, getmail supported the mbox format in the past, but there were too
many problems with it (mainly related to locking mechanisms). So, this
format was dropped and I switched to maildir when I upgraded.

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Re: maildirmake

[Michael Mueller]

On Wednesday 14 January 2004 20:09, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2004-01-14 11:37:16 -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> > 3. POP3->getmail->procmail->mailboxes<-MUA (Mutt for example)
>
> This is what I'm using. And I also receive mail locally, which is
> automatically given to procmail by exim.

Only local mail I would get is from cron.
>
> My getmailrc contains a line
>
> postmaster = "|/usr/bin/procmail -t"

I'll start with that too.
>
> (in addition to the server, username and password lines).
> And my .procmailrc:
>
> DEFAULT=$HOME/Mail/Maildir/
> LOGFILE=$HOME/Mail/procmail.log
>
> :0 fw: spamassassin.lock
>
> * < 40
>
> | spamc
>
> # Lines for the maildir format
>
> :0 Bfh
>
> * H ?? !^Lines:
> * -1^0
> * 1^1 ^.*$
>
> | formail -A "Lines: $="
> |
> :0
>
> * ^X-Spam-Flag: YES
> {
>
>   :0
>
>   * ^X-Spam-Level: \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
>   /dev/null
>
>   :0
>
>   Mail/junk/
> }
>
> :0
>
> * (^List-Id: |\
>[EMAIL PROTECTED])
> Mail/debian-fr/
>
> and so on for the other mailing-lists.

Looks like regex.  Understanding your .procmailrc give me something to reach 
for. Thanks.

-- 
Mike Mueller
324881 (08/20/2003)
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Now use your right hand to draw the number "6" in the air.


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Re: maildirmake

[Mike Mueller]

On Thursday 15 January 2004 02:23, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 11:37:16AM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> > On Wednesday 14 January 2004 04:59, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 02:39:21PM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:

> > 4. throw in spam filtering
>
> you can do basic spam filtering with procmail OR add other
> stuff-spamassasin...

Answers that question before I asked it. Thanks.
>
> > 5. MUA->nullmailer->SMTP Smart Relay
>
> dont know what this is.

SMTP-smarthost, the server at smtp.myisp.com

>
> > I am avoiding sendmail because (IMO) it's big and does things I don't
> > need.
>
> it was MY choice but it is not DEBIAN's default. exim3 or 4 can be
> configured with d-u peoples' help in a flash.

Will go read up on exim then - being attracted to the "flash" part of the 
deal.
>
> > I wish I could find the Young Folks Book of OSS Email Solutions with big
> > colorful pictures and simple statements about the benefits and drawbacks
> > of each configuration (links appreciated).  Without that book I am left
> > to assemble what I think is the simplest collection of tools for my
> > situation in a trial-and-error fashion.  At the outset, by using getmail,
> > I am faced with the daunting choice of mbox versus maildirs.  Great. All
> > I need is a controversy.
>
> I think these become more of an issue when you want to: store GB of
> mail, backup GB of mail or do custom searches of GB of mail. maildir is
> better for those. there is also noproblem with mbox<->maildir conversion
> if ever there is a need. This is the benefit of open source. choices and
> freedom.

I am reading GB == Gigabytes, meaning lots of it.  Choices and freedom are 
good.  I'm still learning to manage it.  Thinking is hard and time-consuming. 
Can't I just buy a decision or have a politician tell me what's good ;-).

> as I said before, after you set up the procmail script and setup either
> a file or a directory, procmail will do what you said. no need to do
> anything else.

OK.  I'll try that next.
>
> SO, if you do:
> touch /home/$USER/mail/debian-user
> you have made a mbox
> if you do:
> mkdir /home/$USER/mail/debian-user
> you have made a maildir
> voila!

mbox is a file with each message being an entry into the file (there's some 
sort of index into the file?), maildir is a directory system with each mail 
being a file. (No day is a waste when you learn something.)

procmail must create the /tmp, /cur, /new subdirs.

> I started out with mbox and still use it. but one day I will take the
> maildir plunge. with maildir there are many benefits.

Upon installing getmail there was a configuration message basically saying 
getmail doesn't support mbox and that mbox is fraught with peril, and so 
began my exposure to maildir.

-- 
Mike Mueller
324881 (08/20/2003)
Make clockwise circles with your right foot. 
Now use your right hand to draw the number "6" in the air.


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Re: maildirmake

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 11:37:16AM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> On Wednesday 14 January 2004 04:59, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 02:39:21PM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> > > I am a MTA/MDA/MUA email noob.  I am doing things piecemeal to understand
> > > the functioning of each component. 
> 
> > > How are maildir and folders usually set up?  With an MUA?
> > > --
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> > here is something I recall.
> > I have sendmail and procmail and fetchmail.
> > fetchmail (using cron) get my email and passes it to sendmail for local
> > delivery. Sendmail using procmail to sortout what to do with my mail and
> > where to drop it.
> > so:
> > fetchmail->sendmail->procmail->mailboxes
> 
> Thanks for the reply Kevin.
> 
> I was thinking about doing this:
> 
> 1. POP3->getmail->mailboxes

this is the basic way. no frills.

> 2. POP3->getmail->procmail->mailboxes
> 3. POP3->getmail->procmail->mailboxes<-MUA (Mutt for example)

this is what I use. this allows you to do mbox or maildir. mutt can do
either.

> 4. throw in spam filtering

you can do basic spam filtering with procmail OR add other
stuff-spamassasin...

> 5. MUA->nullmailer->SMTP Smart Relay

dont know what this is.
> 
> I am avoiding sendmail because (IMO) it's big and does things I don't need.  

it was MY choice but it is not DEBIAN's default. exim3 or 4 can be
configured with d-u peoples' help in a flash.

> I wish I could find the Young Folks Book of OSS Email Solutions with big 
> colorful pictures and simple statements about the benefits and drawbacks of 
> each configuration (links appreciated).  Without that book I am left to 
> assemble what I think is the simplest collection of tools for my situation in 
> a trial-and-error fashion.  At the outset, by using getmail, I am faced with 
> the daunting choice of mbox versus maildirs.  Great. All I need is a 
> controversy.  

I think these become more of an issue when you want to: store GB of
mail, backup GB of mail or do custom searches of GB of mail. maildir is
better for those. there is also noproblem with mbox<->maildir conversion
if ever there is a need. This is the benefit of open source. choices and
freedom.

> 
> Long discussion on debian-devel on maildirmake:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg01420.html
> 
> Tools for converting mbox to maildir:
> http://qmail.mscnetworks.com/top.html#maildir
> 
> As I go through the steps above I wonder where the mailboxes come from.  The 

as I said before, after you set up the procmail script and setup either
a file or a directory, procmail will do what you said. no need to do
anything else.

SO, if you do:
touch /home/$USER/mail/debian-user
you have made a mbox
if you do:
mkdir /home/$USER/mail/debian-user
you have made a maildir
voila!

> various agents need to know about the mailboxes (obviously).  So the choices 
> are:
> 
> 1. use maildirmake which is not a part of base debian; I suppose I could load 
> in qmail and get it, but drag in that monster for a script?  Should I ask the 
> Debian getmail package maintainer to include maildirmake?
> 2. create them manually which worked; still haven't found how folders are 
> specified but I have found some source code to read; not enthused about 
> reading source when I'm in the noob stage; never enthused about reading PERL 
> ;-)
> 3. start learning Mutt and use it to create maildir targets; haven't really 
> got the hang of getmail yet and now I've got to get Mutt out of the box? it's 
> probably not that hard 
> 
> In the end, 3. is probably the preferred choice.  Then you modify the 
> procmail recipes to use the new mail folder as desired.  I haven't actually 
> done this yet, I am plotting a course.
> 
> > this is a portion of my .procmailrc
> > --
> >
> > PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
> > MAILDIR=$HOME/mail
> > DEFAULT=$HOME/mbox
> > LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/rules/from
> >
> > :0 c
> >
> > $MAILDIR/backup
> >
> > :0
> >
> > * ^To:.*perlsemny
> > $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny
> >
> > :0
> >
> > * ^From:.*handspring
> > $MAILDIR/other/handspring
> > --
> > Here is sort of an answer to your question.
> > the 'mail rule' ^To:.*perlsemny asks if the message is from someone with
> > the address containing the word 'perlsemny'. if it does it moves the
> > mail into $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny.
> > if $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny is a file, then
> > the mail is saved in mbox format inside the file.
> > BUT if it is a directory, the mail is
> > saved in maildir format inside the directory.
> > This is how things work with procmail.
> > -Kev
> 
> Are you using mbox or maildir?

I started out with mbox and still use it. but one day I will take the
maildir plunge. with maildir there are many benefits.
-Kev


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Re: maildirmake

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2004-01-14 11:37:16 -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> 3. POP3->getmail->procmail->mailboxes<-MUA (Mutt for example)

This is what I'm using. And I also receive mail locally, which is
automatically given to procmail by exim.

My getmailrc contains a line

postmaster = "|/usr/bin/procmail -t"

(in addition to the server, username and password lines).
And my .procmailrc:

DEFAULT=$HOME/Mail/Maildir/
LOGFILE=$HOME/Mail/procmail.log

:0 fw: spamassassin.lock
* < 40
| spamc

# Lines for the maildir format
:0 Bfh
* H ?? !^Lines:
* -1^0
* 1^1 ^.*$
| formail -A "Lines: $="

:0
* ^X-Spam-Flag: YES
{
  :0
  * ^X-Spam-Level: \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
  /dev/null

  :0
  Mail/junk/
}

:0
* (^List-Id: |\
   [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Mail/debian-fr/

and so on for the other mailing-lists.

-- 
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validated (X)HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International
des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA


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Re: maildirmake

[Mike Mueller]

On Wednesday 14 January 2004 04:59, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 02:39:21PM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> > I am a MTA/MDA/MUA email noob.  I am doing things piecemeal to understand
> > the functioning of each component. 

> > How are maildir and folders usually set up?  With an MUA?
> > --
>
> Hi Mike,
> here is something I recall.
> I have sendmail and procmail and fetchmail.
> fetchmail (using cron) get my email and passes it to sendmail for local
> delivery. Sendmail using procmail to sortout what to do with my mail and
> where to drop it.
> so:
> fetchmail->sendmail->procmail->mailboxes

Thanks for the reply Kevin.

I was thinking about doing this:

1. POP3->getmail->mailboxes
2. POP3->getmail->procmail->mailboxes
3. POP3->getmail->procmail->mailboxes<-MUA (Mutt for example)
4. throw in spam filtering
5. MUA->nullmailer->SMTP Smart Relay

I am avoiding sendmail because (IMO) it's big and does things I don't need.  
I wish I could find the Young Folks Book of OSS Email Solutions with big 
colorful pictures and simple statements about the benefits and drawbacks of 
each configuration (links appreciated).  Without that book I am left to 
assemble what I think is the simplest collection of tools for my situation in 
a trial-and-error fashion.  At the outset, by using getmail, I am faced with 
the daunting choice of mbox versus maildirs.  Great. All I need is a 
controversy.  

Long discussion on debian-devel on maildirmake:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg01420.html

Tools for converting mbox to maildir:
http://qmail.mscnetworks.com/top.html#maildir

As I go through the steps above I wonder where the mailboxes come from.  The 
various agents need to know about the mailboxes (obviously).  So the choices 
are:

1. use maildirmake which is not a part of base debian; I suppose I could load 
in qmail and get it, but drag in that monster for a script?  Should I ask the 
Debian getmail package maintainer to include maildirmake?
2. create them manually which worked; still haven't found how folders are 
specified but I have found some source code to read; not enthused about 
reading source when I'm in the noob stage; never enthused about reading PERL 
;-)
3. start learning Mutt and use it to create maildir targets; haven't really 
got the hang of getmail yet and now I've got to get Mutt out of the box? it's 
probably not that hard 

In the end, 3. is probably the preferred choice.  Then you modify the 
procmail recipes to use the new mail folder as desired.  I haven't actually 
done this yet, I am plotting a course.

> this is a portion of my .procmailrc
> --
>
> PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
> MAILDIR=$HOME/mail
> DEFAULT=$HOME/mbox
> LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/rules/from
>
> :0 c
>
> $MAILDIR/backup
>
> :0
>
> * ^To:.*perlsemny
> $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny
>
> :0
>
> * ^From:.*handspring
> $MAILDIR/other/handspring
> --
> Here is sort of an answer to your question.
> the 'mail rule' ^To:.*perlsemny asks if the message is from someone with
> the address containing the word 'perlsemny'. if it does it moves the
> mail into $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny.
> if $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny is a file, then
> the mail is saved in mbox format inside the file.
> BUT if it is a directory, the mail is
> saved in maildir format inside the directory.
> This is how things work with procmail.
> -Kev

Are you using mbox or maildir?

-- 
Mike Mueller
324881 (08/20/2003)
Make clockwise circles with your right foot. 
Now use your right hand to draw the number "6" in the air.


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Re: maildirmake

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 02:39:21PM -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> I am a MTA/MDA/MUA email noob.  I am doing things piecemeal to understand the 
> functioning of each component. I've got getmail pulling from a POP3 account. 
> I had to create my Maildir manually:
> 
> mkdir Maildir
> mkdir Mail/dir/new
> mkdir Mail/dir/tmp
> mkdir Mail/dir/cur
> 
> I found a file in ~/Maildir/new after running getmail.  It was the email I 
> sent intentionally from another machine running KMail.
> 
> I don't have/can't find maildirmake on my Knoppix/Sid system or my Woody 
> system.
> 
> I do not have an MUA installed.
> 
> How are maildir and folders usually set up?  With an MUA?
> -- 
Hi Mike,
here is something I recall.
I have sendmail and procmail and fetchmail.
fetchmail (using cron) get my email and passes it to sendmail for local
delivery. Sendmail using procmail to sortout what to do with my mail and
where to drop it.
so:
fetchmail->sendmail->procmail->mailboxes
this is a portion of my .procmailrc 
--

PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
MAILDIR=$HOME/mail
DEFAULT=$HOME/mbox
LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/rules/from

:0 c
$MAILDIR/backup

:0
* ^To:.*perlsemny
$MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny
 
:0
* ^From:.*handspring
$MAILDIR/other/handspring
-- 
Here is sort of an answer to your question.
the 'mail rule' ^To:.*perlsemny asks if the message is from someone with
the address containing the word 'perlsemny'. if it does it moves the
mail into $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny.
if $MAILDIR/monthly/perlsemny is a file, then
the mail is saved in mbox format inside the file. 
BUT if it is a directory, the mail is
saved in maildir format inside the directory.
This is how things work with procmail. 
-Kev


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Re: maildirmake

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2004-01-13 14:39:21 -0500, Mike Mueller wrote:
> I don't have/can't find maildirmake on my Knoppix/Sid system or my
> Woody system.

There's one in the maildrop package.

> How are maildir and folders usually set up?  With an MUA?

Yes, or manually (could be a simple script).

-- 
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des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
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Re: maildirmake

[Jamin W . Collins]

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:13:04 -0500
"Derrick 'dman' Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 04:20:05PM -0500, Jamin W. Collins wrote:
> | "maildrop" is a good package to get "maildirmake" with.
> 
> Yes, but maildirmake has some limitations.  It won't create the folder
> if any of the parent directories are missing.  Because of that I don't
> use it, even though I am now using maildrop.  A simpler route is to
> use bash and
> mkdir -p ~/Mail/path/to/folder/{new,cur,tmp}
> 
> (a "maildir" is just a directory with "new","cur", and "tmp"
> subdirectories)

Almost correct.  Don't forget the permissions on the created directories. 
Normal qmail Maildirs are 0700, IIRC.  Other apps might not be as picky
about the permissions.

-- 
Jamin W. Collins


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Re: maildirmake

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 04:20:05PM -0500, Jamin W. Collins wrote:
| On 13 Jun 2002 23:14:20 +0200
| "Andrew Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| 
| > Where is maildirmake ?
 
| "maildrop" is a good package to get "maildirmake" with.

Yes, but maildirmake has some limitations.  It won't create the folder
if any of the parent directories are missing.  Because of that I don't
use it, even though I am now using maildrop.  A simpler route is to
use bash and
mkdir -p ~/Mail/path/to/folder/{new,cur,tmp}

(a "maildir" is just a directory with "new","cur", and "tmp"
subdirectories)

-D

-- 

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Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.
Proverbs 16:7
 
http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/



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THANKS Re: maildirmake

[Andrew Fowler]

That did the trick, thanks,

Andy


On Thu, 2002-06-13 at 23:20, Jamin W.Collins wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2002 23:14:20 +0200
> "Andrew Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Where is maildirmake ? Even dpkg -S maildirmake says it's not found
> > (does dpkg -S search non-intalled packages at all ??).  Or can someone
> > point me to an alternative.
> 
> Nope, "dpkg -S" is only for installed stuff (TMK).  "maildrop" is a good
> package to get "maildirmake" with.
> 
> -- 
> Jamin W. Collins
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: maildirmake

[Jamin W . Collins]

On 13 Jun 2002 23:14:20 +0200
"Andrew Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Where is maildirmake ? Even dpkg -S maildirmake says it's not found
> (does dpkg -S search non-intalled packages at all ??).  Or can someone
> point me to an alternative.

Nope, "dpkg -S" is only for installed stuff (TMK).  "maildrop" is a good
package to get "maildirmake" with.

-- 
Jamin W. Collins


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