Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 02:18:53PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: A:C=69:31 Default option: A. Quorum: 30. On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 03:18:44AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: C fails to reach its majority requirement and is dropped. Huh? 3. Any (non-default) option which does not

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 08:20:11PM +0200, Markus Schulze wrote: You wrote (25 May 2003): C fails to reach its majority requirement and is dropped. B and A are the only remaining options, and B defeats A. B wins. That's strange! The majority requirement makes the default option lose.

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 12:14:55AM -0400, Andrew Pimlott wrote: 1. Approval voting has obvious incentives to strategic voting. Yes, that's true. There are two responses to this: one is that the benefits are worth the risks; the other is that (hopefully) the incentives to vote honestly outweigh

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Matthias Urlichs
Hi, Andrew Pimlott wrote: 1. Approval voting has obvious incentives to strategic voting. The electionmethods people consider it clearly inferior to Condorcet voting, in part for this reason. Specifically, why don't you think this is a problem with the proposed method? With

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Matthias Urlichs
Hi, Markus Schulze wrote: In short: The winner according to Manoj's May 15 proposal can be cyclic even when the voters don't change their minds. Wrong. Reason: The default option is never keep the current status, it's further discussion. If we run a vote which results in action A, the vote

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Guido Trotter
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 02:45:30PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: And, as I've already posted elsewhere, you'll note there's no problem at all here if number of votes received is twice the quorum, which, historically, it almost always is. I haven't had time to follow all the long discussion,

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Matthias Urlichs
Hi, Guido Trotter wrote: If we are sure that if 2*quorum people cast a vote there is no problem with the proposed system, why not add to the current proposal the fact that the votes cast, altogether, have to be at least 2*quorum? This will also ensure that, before taking a vote into

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 12:48:32PM +0200, Guido Trotter wrote: If we are sure that if 2*quorum people cast a vote there is no problem with the proposed system, why not add to the current proposal the fact that the votes cast, altogether, have to be at least 2*quorum? Because that would have

Re: Constitutional amendment: Condorcet/Clone Proof SSD vote tallying

2003-05-26 Thread Andrew Pimlott
On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 08:20:33AM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote: With Approval, there's no difference between strategic voting and expressing your preference. I don't know what you mean. The basic strategy for approval voting (as on electionmethods.org) is to vote for the lesser of evils