Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Lars Wirzenius
ma, 2006-01-30 kello 13:39 +1100, Craig Sanders kirjoitti: i'll behave as i please. if you don't like my words, then don't read them - kill file me if you feel it's necessary. Nobody has the right to be personally insulting on Debian lists. It would certainly be possible to express concern

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread MJ Ray
Craig Sanders wrote: as has been pointed out hundreds of times before, there are several other situations where neither the DFSG nor the debian project require modifiability - license texts and copyright notices, for example. As has been pointed out hundreds more times, those limitations are

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Roger Leigh
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 05:13:26PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 12:09:55AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 02:29:38AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Mon,

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 09:24:15AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: GIVE. IT. A. FUCKING. REST! Craig, I'm willing to debate whatever you want to debate about the GFDL, but not with insults and shouting. Respectfully, -- .../ -/ ---/ .--./ / .--/ .-/ .../ -/ ../ -./ --./ / -.--/ ---/ ..-/ .-./ /

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Craig Sanders
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:08:36PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 09:24:15AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: GIVE. IT. A. FUCKING. REST! Craig, I'm willing to debate whatever you want to debate about the GFDL, but not with insults and shouting. no, the truth is,

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Craig Sanders
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 10:24:17AM +, MJ Ray wrote: Craig Sanders wrote: as has been pointed out hundreds of times before, there are several other situations where neither the DFSG nor the debian project require modifiability - license texts and copyright notices, for example. As has

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread MJ Ray
Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 10:24:17AM +, MJ Ray wrote: As has been pointed out hundreds more times, those limitations are imposed by copyright law more than by licences. Even the licences which can be modified (such as the GPL), can't be modified if you

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 01:34:45AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:08:36PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 09:24:15AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: GIVE. IT. A. FUCKING. REST! Craig, I'm willing to debate whatever you want to debate about

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Anton Zinoviev
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 03:09:53PM +, MJ Ray wrote: you CAN modify an invariant section - but you can only do so by adding a new section that subverts or refutes or simply adds to the invariant section. (Craig Sanders, January 2005) vs If it is modified, it does not do its job.

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Craig, could you please behave in a polite manner? Regardless of whether you're right or wrong about your claims about the GFDL, your manner is inappropriate on Debian mailing lists. Craig has already made it abundantly clear that he thinks the

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Roger Leigh
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thomas Bushnell BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Craig, could you please behave in a polite manner? Regardless of whether you're right or wrong about your claims about the GFDL, your manner is inappropriate

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Roger Leigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that this behaviour, as well as that on other lists in the recent past, is making it increasingly necessary that we introduce some way of enforcing a minimum standard of decency on our lists. We can't continue like this for long. This sort of

Re: DFSG, GFDL, and position statementsd

2006-01-30 Thread Anton Zinoviev
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:47:02PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: but neither of those is grounds for imposing a 3:1 supermajority requirement. The problem with this view is that it effectively would nullify the 3:1 requirement if applied in some other cases. Not necessarily.

Re: DFSG, GFDL, and position statementsd

2006-01-30 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Anton Zinoviev [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:47:02PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: but neither of those is grounds for imposing a 3:1 supermajority requirement. The problem with this view is that it effectively would nullify the 3:1 requirement if applied

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Craig Sanders
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 04:12:09PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 01:34:45AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:08:36PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: I'm willing to debate whatever you want to debate about the GFDL, but not with insults and

Minimum standard of decency, was: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread MJ Ray
Roger Leigh I think that this behaviour, as well as that on other lists in the recent past, is making it increasingly necessary that we introduce some way of enforcing a minimum standard of decency on our lists. [...] You pillory[1] a man over his -private beliefs about death[2] to the point

Re: Minimum standard of decency, was: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nevertheless, Craig Sanders's colourful rants break the lists code of conduct far more clearly than posting satire to -devel-announce. Where are the winged angels of vengence? But then, the d-d-a ban didn't look like it was about enforcing the list codes

Re: Minimum standard of decency, was: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Adeodato Simó
* MJ Ray [Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:25:48 +]: to the point where he recoils from the project[3], don't answer Are you deliberately lying here, to make your point prettier, or are you ciberately stating that Andrew lied himself in [3]? 3.

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt
Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: with one of you, as with all, there's no point in engaging in debate or any kind of civilised discourse. So ... Why don't you just stop the flaming, if there's no point anyway? I have the feeling that this would somehow improve the climate of the

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 10:10:11AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 04:12:09PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 01:34:45AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:08:36PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: I'm willing to debate whatever

Re: Amendment: GFDL is compatible with DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Craig Sanders
On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 06:13:14PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: no, the truth is, you're blinkered and inflexible and determined to twist [...] oh look, it's yet another wind up doll - how cute. how long did it take to train you? can you do other tricks? there does seem to be a lot of

Deadline for amendments to the GR

2006-01-30 Thread Debian Project Secretary
Hi folks, A new amendment has made it in to the GR _after_ the two week discussion deadline. If there are other people mulling proposals for amendments to the GR, now is the time -- if submissions keep coming in at two week intervals, voting on this GR can be delayed almost

Re: The invariant sections are not forbidden by DFSG

2006-01-30 Thread Craig Sanders
On Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 09:54:40AM +0100, Frank K?ster wrote: Anton Zinoviev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let the sheet instead be a coffee cup; in Germany Lehmann's sell cups with Emacs or vi commands on them. You can't add a second cup for the invariant sections, even if they fit on it,