Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
Alas, you are not exactly right. The program is ltcp.pl and is placed in the directories I mentioned. The ltcp.es.html and ltcp.fr.html are the result of pages automatically generated using this program. As a matter of fact in the spanish directory this pages are broken up so they are easier to download since the ltcp file is not very maneagable. If you take a look at the programs (do a cvs co) they differ slightly but are both written in Perl so they are human readable (at least for a programmer :) Best regards Javi On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:22:50AM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Javier Fdz-Sanguino Pen~a wrote: Please note that it might need some polishing. Anyhow I suggest you look at how it works by looking in w.d.o/international/spanish or w.d.o/international/french/ (I'm not sure if we are both using the same database and program though) The correct link is : w.d.o/international/spanish/ltcp.es.html w.d.o/international/french/ltcp.fr.html The 'problem' is that none of this pages are translated to english. I've had a look at the two pages (not at sources), and they use the same system, with minor differences between both. Bye, Mt. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Javier Fdz-Sanguino Pen~a wrote: Please note that it might need some polishing. Anyhow I suggest you look at how it works by looking in w.d.o/international/spanish or w.d.o/international/french/ (I'm not sure if we are both using the same database and program though) The correct link is : w.d.o/international/spanish/ltcp.es.html w.d.o/international/french/ltcp.fr.html The 'problem' is that none of this pages are translated to english. I've had a look at the two pages (not at sources), and they use the same system, with minor differences between both. Bye, Mt.
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
Umm.. I know this is not that much integrated into wml but.. ¿have you looked at the perl script made by Paolo Molaro, and modified by Christophe Le Bars and myself? (the spanish version is in w.d.o/international/spanish). The idea of this is to have a Perl database (using hash arrays gives a lot of possible uses) that has an entry for each documents. It is quite powerful and Chris and me use it to keep track of translations. That way you can do things like : PERL do 'ltcp.pl'; update_db_format(); dump_html(0); /PERL Which dumps all documents marked as 'unavailable' (0). Of course this can be cleaned up a bit and made more 'developer-friendly' :) This sounds like what we're looking for. .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
Please note that it might need some polishing. Anyhow I suggest you look at how it works by looking in w.d.o/international/spanish or w.d.o/international/french/ (I'm not sure if we are both using the same database and program though) We could have a modified version of the program to output the information for the database of documents in the DDP and keep it compatible with the spanish and french versions. Anyhow I would like some explanations on the 'data' system used by vendors+consultants... is it somehow compatible? What about wmh? Can we use it? If no one objects, I will try to use this program in order to: a) move the DDP's wml file to the directory devel/ddp b) remove the files regarding the documents and try to have them automatically generated with this schema Best regards Javi On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 12:15:05AM -0500, Adam Di Carlo wrote: Umm.. I know this is not that much integrated into wml but.. ¿have you looked at the perl script made by Paolo Molaro, and modified by Christophe Le Bars and myself? (the spanish version is in w.d.o/international/spanish). The idea of this is to have a Perl database (using hash arrays gives a lot of possible uses) that has an entry for each documents. It is quite powerful and Chris and me use it to keep track of translations. That way you can do things like : PERL do 'ltcp.pl'; update_db_format(); dump_html(0); /PERL Which dumps all documents marked as 'unavailable' (0). Of course this can be cleaned up a bit and made more 'developer-friendly' :) This sounds like what we're looking for. .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 05:35:33PM +0200, Javier Fdz-Sanguino Pen~a wrote: a) move the DDP's wml file to the directory devel/ddp That's doc/ddp, BTW. -- Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 09:16:05PM +0200, Javier Fdz-Sanguino Pen~a wrote: a) move the DDP's wml file to the directory devel/ddp That's doc/ddp, BTW. Adam's proposal suggested devel/ddp IIRC, for a way to have both unstable and stable documentation adn doc/ for only finished (i.e. stable) documentation. Yes, that was the original idea, however, he told me later it would be easier to just do a make publish into the same directory, and organize the links from the web pages so that they differentiate finished and non-finished stuff. -- Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
Umm.. I know this is not that much integrated into wml but.. ¿have you looked at the perl script made by Paolo Molaro, and modified by Christophe Le Bars and myself? (the spanish version is in w.d.o/international/spanish). The idea of this is to have a Perl database (using hash arrays gives a lot of possible uses) that has an entry for each documents. It is quite powerful and Chris and me use it to keep track of translations. That way you can do things like : PERL do 'ltcp.pl'; update_db_format(); dump_html(0); /PERL Which dumps all documents marked as 'unavailable' (0). Of course this can be cleaned up a bit and made more 'developer-friendly' :) Best regards Javi On Sat, Mar 25, 2000 at 08:07:53PM -0500, Adam Di Carlo wrote: Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The index page for DDP documents needs to be implemented with a bit of WML magic, with .wml and .wmh files. From what I managed to observe in the last half an hour or so, all we need is some modification of webwml/english/template/debian/install_manual.wml to something less specific to install manuals etc, and better adjusted for this purpose, and a few lines of WML code to invoke the functions which generate the page. Any comments or even better concrete help would be highly appreciated :) I suggest rather a set of metadata files; these files can be the basis for a little sort of metadata database, so we could say: make-doc-index state=released to get an nice HTML index of the released documents, or make-doc-index state=in-progress to see rough documents which aren't ready yet. The metadata files would include a title, author, relative URL, release state, package if any it appears in. Um... maybe other data too. -- .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The index page for DDP documents needs to be implemented with a bit of WML magic, with .wml and .wmh files. From what I managed to observe in the last half an hour or so, all we need is some modification of webwml/english/template/debian/install_manual.wml to something less specific to install manuals etc, and better adjusted for this purpose, and a few lines of WML code to invoke the functions which generate the page. Any comments or even better concrete help would be highly appreciated :) I suggest rather a set of metadata files; these files can be the basis for a little sort of metadata database, so we could say: make-doc-index state=released to get an nice HTML index of the released documents, or make-doc-index state=in-progress to see rough documents which aren't ready yet. The metadata files would include a title, author, relative URL, release state, package if any it appears in. Um... maybe other data too. -- .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
[Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
Here's a reposting of my thoughts regarding smoother DDP/www.debian.org integration. I am currently soliciting volunteers who know SGML/CVS/Make/WML to help with this integration. ---BeginMessage--- The following is my plan on why and how to merge the DDP area with www.debian.org, specifically, the Debian WML CVS area. Comments are appreciated. Overview: * merge DDP web pages with Debian WML CVS area, devel/ddp * retain existing manual sources in DDP CVS area * setup autobuild of DDP working copies to devel/ddp/working-copies Rationale: * promote DDP web pages to standard www.debian.org makes the DDP less of a marginalized splinter project * exploit www.debian.org mirrors * exploit current translation efforts on web pages * use WML in conjunction with small doc description files to produce a list of manuals and their locations which is much easier to maintain Description: The DDP Web pages are currently maintained from the DDP CVS area; they can be found at the web at http://www.debian.org/~elphick/ddp/. The DDP CVS area currently has the following structure: ddp/ webpages/ -- DDP web materials manuals.sgml/ -- Makefile -- top level Makefile developers-reference/ -- document module, in debiandoc-sgml dictionary/ intro-i18n/ ... * DDP Web Pages The function of the DDP web pages are to facilitate communication between Debian documenters. It tracks status of manuals which are released, being written, and tracks proposals for new manuals. It describes how to access the DDP CVS area, policies and guidelines for documenters. Working versions of manuals are presented. Basically -- a clearing-house of information for Debian documenters. Essentially, what I propose to do is eliminate ddp/webpages/* and merge that into wml/english/devel/ddp/ . Making this move, I will create small language neutral document.wmh files which will contain status information which can be shared across translated languages. **PROPOSED LOCATION OF THESE FILES REQUESTED FROM Debina WML GURUS** This will make the status tracking aspect of the web pages much more maintable, eliminating the treble-keying of manuals we currently have: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:webpages grep Developer's Reference *.html index.html: lia href=manuals.html#devrefDebian Developer's Reference/a manuals.html: lia href=#devrefDebian Developer's Reference/a/li manuals.html: name=devrefDebian Developer's Reference/a/h2 Disadvantage: disjunction between DDP and WML CVS areas; documenters able to maintain manuals not able to update status. Practically, however, this rarely happens. * DDP Working Copies Oliver, the past DDP leader, has his own cron-driven autobuilder scripts which produce the HTML version of the manuals from their DebianDoc-SGML sources. The top-level Makefile is very modular; all subdirs recognize a special 'publish' target which builds HTML and installs it according to the PUBLISHDIR target. This system works very well; thus I propose to retain it. I would move the autobuilder to master.debian.org (where www.debian.org is mirrored from) and run a nightly 'cvs update -d' and 'make PUBLISHDIR=/org/www.debian.org/debian.org/devel/ddp/working-copies publish' (basically just Olly's modified cron script). The cron script is run from a checked out copy. Since CVS now support multiple CVSROOTs in one tree, I could also check out non-DDP CVS modules such as Debian Policy and automatically publish that as well. The benefits of this system is basically easy-to-access source and built versions of unreleased manuals. * Official Versions of Manuals I do *not* propose to autobuild to official location on www.debian.org, such as doc/ . This is definately doable, the only problem is release management -- distinguishing between working copies and released copies. The only way I can think of to do this automatically would require the use of CVS tagging (such as cvs-buildpackage style) and building from tagged CVS source. Even so, there is a risk of divergance against the packaged manuals. [ Other archive administrators (Guy) have proposed that dinstall be modified to recognize certain 'ByHand' entries automatically and do the right thing. ] However, that area *could* be rationalized in its structure to mirror the devel/ddp/working-copies structure. Moreover, the document.wmh files could be used to provide a managable list of documentation. -- .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/ ---End Message--- -- .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
On Sat, Mar 25, 2000 at 05:27:48PM -0500, Adam Di Carlo wrote: I am currently soliciting volunteers who know SGML/CVS/Make/WML to help with this integration. [snip] One thing always bothered me: I don't know if we want to move the whole CVS data with a document, instead of simply starting over from 1.1; if so, can someone do it remotely, or do we need someone with root on cvs.debian.org to mv the *,v files manually? Also, the existing stuff in the /doc/ directory of the web pages needs to be re-organized. Currently, the FAQ (FAQ/) and the New Maintainers' Guide (maint-guide/) have their own sub-directories, whereas the Policy, the Developer's Reference and the Packaging Manual are stuck in the packaging-manuals/ subdirectory (along with some other stuff). That should be cleared up. BTW I was added to debwww group recently, but several permissions in the directory (on master) still aren't writable by me. Perhaps a chgrp+chmod with -R option should be executed automatically after each web update. Also, when invoking wml on files, the @g+w part should be added to -o output files, so that wml chmods the files automatically, too. -- Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
Since we've talked about this in IRC, I assume I've answered your questions. -- .Adam Di [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
Re: [Adam Di Carlo adam@onshore.com] [RFC] DDP and www.debian.org merger
On Sat, Mar 25, 2000 at 06:57:30PM -0500, Adam Di Carlo wrote: Since we've talked about this in IRC, I assume I've answered your questions. The readers of the mailing list might wonder WTF?! now, so I'll try to explain :) I asked: | I don't know if we want to move the whole CVS data with a document, | instead of simply starting over from 1.1; if so, can someone do it | remotely, or do we need someone with root on cvs.debian.org to mv the | *,v files manually? Adam basically said that we shouldn't be moving anything from the old DDP webpages scheme to the new location, because the old stuff is too static and too hard to maintain. The SGML documents wouldn't be moved at all, the `good old' DDP CVS would still be used, and HTML copies would be built from it as they are now, just in another $PUBLISHDIR. The index page for DDP documents needs to be implemented with a bit of WML magic, with .wml and .wmh files. From what I managed to observe in the last half an hour or so, all we need is some modification of webwml/english/template/debian/install_manual.wml to something less specific to install manuals etc, and better adjusted for this purpose, and a few lines of WML code to invoke the functions which generate the page. Any comments or even better concrete help would be highly appreciated :) -- Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification
