Re: Suggestion: replacing URL link of disabled service

[Boyuan Yang]

Hi,

在 2023-06-13星期二的 10:51 +0200，oke写道：
> Hi Debian WWW team,
> 
> on the webpage https://packages.debian.org/index, a link to the Debian 
> package archive is provided.  Currently, this points to a webpages that 
> is marked as disabled service.
> 
> Please, replace the link with a working target.  I'd suggest the 
> following replacement:
> 
>    old: https://archive.debian.net/
> 
>    new: https://archive.debian.org/
> 
> As an alternative, the link may also direct to 
> https://www.debian.org/distrib/archive


I have proposed Merge Requests to solve this issue:

* https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/packages/-/merge_requests/30
* https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/packages/-/merge_requests/31

And they can be merged by someone with write access to the repo.

Thanks,
Boyuan Yang


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Re: Suggestion

[Tomas Pospisek]

Hi Carlos,

On Fri, 2021-02-19 at 21:42 -0600, Carlos Méndez wrote:
> Hello, I have made the modifications on the web page, I can summarize
> it in 3 changes:
> - The search form was aligned vertically (taking into account the
>   max-height) to make them more homogeneous with the navigation bar.
> - (classic) style was added to form elements, to make them look the
>   same independent of the browser (in firefox they were completely
>   disproportionate)
> - Color was added to the download button, to give it more visual
>   weight, because it is an important element on the site.
>
> You can access the site at: https://carloschanmendez.github.io/test/
>
> I sincerely hope that you like the changes, they are small, but I
> think that sometimes the small details are important too.

I think your changes improve Debian's home page very nicely, so let's
try to get them included.

First a few formalities:

* are you subscribed to the debian-www mailing list? You might want to
  do that, because when emails appear on the debian-www mailing list,
  people will as a rule only reply to the mailing list and not realize
  that you might not be subscribed and so you might not see their
  replies. For example Calim McConnell's email below that went to
  the mailing list only, without a Cc to you. You can subscribe
  yourself to the mailing list here:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-www/

* it *might* be better form to write text emails only (not emails that
  contain both HTML and text). However that's not a hard rule I guess
  and it *might* be useful to use HTML in case you need to transport
  visual stuff (which you do not in this particulare instance).

On 23.02.21 14:19, Calum McConnell wrote:

On Fri, 2021-02-19 at 21:42 -0600, Carlos Méndez wrote:

Hello, my name is Carlos Méndez, the reason for this email is not to
report an error, I simply want to suggest a small change in the design
of the main page.

[...]


If you're wondering where the website itself is built from, the source is
at https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml .  It uses a mix of WML
and other scripts.  WML is a semi-deprecated static site generator, and
you probably won't see it in many other places.  It's fairly simple to
understand: it's syntax is very much HTML based.  If you'd like to make
contributions to the website, then submitting pull requests to the
repositiory is probably the easiest way.


In order to submit pull requests you need to create an account on Salsa: 
https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml and sign in there with 
your account.


Then you might want to read about how CSS in handled for the Debian 
website: 
https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml/-/blob/master/README_CSS.txt


Next you can do *either* of these:

* either fork the webwml repository, clone the webwml repository to your
  local machine, edit webml/english/debian.css, commit it, write a
  rationale  (exactly what you wrote on the top of this email) and push
  your changes back up onto the Samba server. Once you have your changes
  on the Samba server you will see that the web interface offers you the
  possibility to create a pull request. Do so. In the pull request
  description you can wirte once again exactly the same thing you wrote
  on top of this email.

* pr edit webml/english/debian.css right there on the the Samba server
  ("Edit" button on the right side). That will do the above steps
  behind the curtain and you can once again create a pull request.

Take care to get the CSS syntax correct so as not to break the page. But 
do not worry too much, if stuff breaks, then you can fix it. I think 
this mailing list treats newbies and possible newbie mistakes kindly.


OK, I hope you can take your improvements a step further. If you get 
stuck, then please ask on the list.


Thanks a lot for caring!
*t

Re: Suggestion

[Calum McConnell]

On Fri, 2021-02-19 at 21:42 -0600, Carlos Méndez wrote:
> Hello, my name is Carlos Méndez, the reason for this email is not to
> report an error, I simply want to suggest a small change in the design
> of the main page.
> 
> Exactly in the area that contains the distribution logo and the search
> form.
> 
> The vertical size of both elements (the logo and the search form) is not
> homogeneous, which breaks the design of the main page a bit.
> 
> My suggestion is to make both elements have a more homogeneous size
> (vertically), Resizing the search form using CSS, Optionally, the image
> of the logo can be used that distributes the elements horizontally to
> take advantage of the space.
> 
> And also optionally the color palette style can be added to the search
> form.
> 
> I know that the website development team must be very busy, and I would
> like to be able to collaborate to improve the website design.
> 
> I would like to know how I can collaborate in the design of the main
> page or another section.
> 
> I have knowledge in HTML, CSS and Javascript.
> 
> I respectfully bid you farewell, and I thank you for taking the time to
> read this email.

If you're wondering where the website itself is built from, the source is
at https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml .  It uses a mix of WML
and other scripts.  WML is a semi-deprecated static site generator, and
you probably won't see it in many other places.  It's fairly simple to
understand: it's syntax is very much HTML based.  If you'd like to make
contributions to the website, then submitting pull requests to the
repositiory is probably the easiest way.


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Re: Suggestion

[Tomas Pospisek]

On 20.02.21 20:12, Tomas Pospisek wrote:

Hi Carlos,

On 20.02.21 04:42, Carlos Méndez wrote:
Hello, my name is Carlos Méndez, the reason for this email is not to 
report an error, I simply want to suggest a small change in the design 
of the main page.


Exactly in the area that contains the distribution logo and the search 
form.


The vertical size of both elements (the logo and the search form) is 
not homogeneous, which breaks the design of the main page a bit.


My suggestion is to make both elements have a more homogeneous size 
(vertically), Resizing the search form using CSS, Optionally, the 
image of the logo can be used that distributes the elements 
horizontally to take advantage of the space.


And also optionally the color palette style can be added to the search 
form.


I know that the website development team must be very busy, and I 
would like to be able to collaborate to improve the website design.


I would like to know how I can collaborate in the design of the main 
page or another section.


I'd suggest you create the improved web page, put it up somewhare and 
the send the link to this list so that other can have a look if they 
think it's better. If that's the changes needed to the CSS.


Was I drunk when I wrote this?!

Let's try again:

Carlos, I'd suggest you create the improved web page, put it up 
somewhere and then send the link to this list so that others can have a 
look and comment. If your changes are thought to improve the web page, 
then you'd proceed by sending the the changes needed to the CSS.


I hope I have better success to bring the message accross this time - 
sorry :-/

*t

Re: Suggestion

[Tomas Pospisek]

Hi Carlos,

On 20.02.21 04:42, Carlos Méndez wrote:
Hello, my name is Carlos Méndez, the reason for this email is not to 
report an error, I simply want to suggest a small change in the design 
of the main page.


Exactly in the area that contains the distribution logo and the search form.

The vertical size of both elements (the logo and the search form) is not 
homogeneous, which breaks the design of the main page a bit.


My suggestion is to make both elements have a more homogeneous size 
(vertically), Resizing the search form using CSS, Optionally, the image 
of the logo can be used that distributes the elements horizontally to 
take advantage of the space.


And also optionally the color palette style can be added to the search form.

I know that the website development team must be very busy, and I would 
like to be able to collaborate to improve the website design.


I would like to know how I can collaborate in the design of the main 
page or another section.


I'd suggest you create the improved web page, put it up somewhare and 
the send the link to this list so that other can have a look if they 
think it's better. If that's the changes needed to the CSS.

?
*t

Re: Suggestion: add note about httpredir to debian.org/mirror/list

[Michael Stapelberg]

Great, thank you!

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Holger Wansing 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Holger Wansing  wrote:
> > Michael Stapelberg  wrote:
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > friends of mine were unaware that http://httpredir.debian.org/ exists
> and
> > > pointed out that our official documentation doesn’t mention it.
> > >
> > > Specifically, they read https://www.debian.org/mirror/list and then
> > > proceeded to hand-pick a mirror.
> > >
> > > I think it would be beneficial to our users if we added a note like the
> > > following at the top of the page:
> > >
> > > """
> > > Use http://httpredir.debian.org/ to automatically get the best mirror
> based
> > > on your geographic and network location. In case httpredir does not
> work
> > > for you, please send a report to mirr...@debian.org and select a
> mirror
> > > from the following list for the time being:
> > > """
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> >
> > Generally, I would consider that a good idea.
> > On https://www.debian.org/mirror/ we already have such a paragraph,
> > I would copy that one to ../mirror/list too, if no one objects.
>
> Done. Should be online within the next hours.
>
>
> Holger
>
>
> --
> 
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> D E B I A N   L I N U X   8 . 0   " J E S S I E " .
>
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> 
>



-- 
Best regards,
Michael

Re: Suggestion: add note about httpredir to debian.org/mirror/list

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Holger Wansing  wrote:
> Michael Stapelberg  wrote:
> > Hey,
> > 
> > friends of mine were unaware that http://httpredir.debian.org/ exists and
> > pointed out that our official documentation doesn’t mention it.
> > 
> > Specifically, they read https://www.debian.org/mirror/list and then
> > proceeded to hand-pick a mirror.
> > 
> > I think it would be beneficial to our users if we added a note like the
> > following at the top of the page:
> > 
> > """
> > Use http://httpredir.debian.org/ to automatically get the best mirror based
> > on your geographic and network location. In case httpredir does not work
> > for you, please send a report to mirr...@debian.org and select a mirror
> > from the following list for the time being:
> > """
> > 
> > What do you think?
> 
> Generally, I would consider that a good idea.
> On https://www.debian.org/mirror/ we already have such a paragraph,
> I would copy that one to ../mirror/list too, if no one objects.

Done. Should be online within the next hours.


Holger


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Re: Suggestion: add note about httpredir to debian.org/mirror/list

[Michael Stapelberg]

Sounds good to me. Thanks for taking care of this!

On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Holger Wansing 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Michael Stapelberg  wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > friends of mine were unaware that http://httpredir.debian.org/ exists
> and
> > pointed out that our official documentation doesn’t mention it.
> >
> > Specifically, they read https://www.debian.org/mirror/list and then
> > proceeded to hand-pick a mirror.
> >
> > I think it would be beneficial to our users if we added a note like the
> > following at the top of the page:
> >
> > """
> > Use http://httpredir.debian.org/ to automatically get the best mirror
> based
> > on your geographic and network location. In case httpredir does not work
> > for you, please send a report to mirr...@debian.org and select a mirror
> > from the following list for the time being:
> > """
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> Generally, I would consider that a good idea.
> On https://www.debian.org/mirror/ we already have such a paragraph,
> I would copy that one to ../mirror/list too, if no one objects.
>
> Diff is attached.
>
> Regards
> Holger
>
>
> --
> 
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> D E B I A N   L I N U X   8 . 0   " J E S S I E " .
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> 
>



-- 
Best regards,
Michael

Re: Suggestion: add note about httpredir to debian.org/mirror/list

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Michael Stapelberg  wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> friends of mine were unaware that http://httpredir.debian.org/ exists and
> pointed out that our official documentation doesn’t mention it.
> 
> Specifically, they read https://www.debian.org/mirror/list and then
> proceeded to hand-pick a mirror.
> 
> I think it would be beneficial to our users if we added a note like the
> following at the top of the page:
> 
> """
> Use http://httpredir.debian.org/ to automatically get the best mirror based
> on your geographic and network location. In case httpredir does not work
> for you, please send a report to mirr...@debian.org and select a mirror
> from the following list for the time being:
> """
> 
> What do you think?

Generally, I would consider that a good idea.
On https://www.debian.org/mirror/ we already have such a paragraph,
I would copy that one to ../mirror/list too, if no one objects.

Diff is attached.

Regards
Holger


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? .directory
? httpredir.diff
Index: list.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/mirror/list.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.9
diff -u -r1.9 list.wml
--- list.wml	30 Apr 2014 09:22:48 -	1.9
+++ list.wml	25 Mar 2016 18:56:13 -
@@ -37,6 +37,23 @@
 Note that geographic proximity often isn't the most important factor for
 determining which machine will serve you best.
 
+# Translators: paragraph copied from ../mirror/index.wml
+
+If you don't know which mirror to use or your system moves around a lot, you
+can use the http://httpredir.debian.org/";>mirror redirector service
+in your apt sources.list.
+It dynamically redirects package download requests to the best mirror
+available based on a number of factors such as mirror availability,
+location, architecture and freshness.
+Use this address in your
+http://manpages.debian.org/man/5/sources.list";>sources.list
+to use the mirror redirector:
+
+
+
+http://httpredir.debian.org/debian
+
+
 The authoritative copy of the following list can always be found at:
 https://www.debian.org/mirror/list";>.
 

Re: Suggestion: add note about httpredir to debian.org/mirror/list

[SZÉPE Viktor]

Amazon's distributed (CDN) Debian mirror is the fastest one:
https://cloudfront.debian.net/

Please consider adding it.


Idézem/Quoting Michael Stapelberg :


Hey,

friends of mine were unaware that http://httpredir.debian.org/ exists and
pointed out that our official documentation doesn’t mention it.

Specifically, they read https://www.debian.org/mirror/list and then
proceeded to hand-pick a mirror.

I think it would be beneficial to our users if we added a note like the
following at the top of the page:

"""
Use http://httpredir.debian.org/ to automatically get the best mirror based
on your geographic and network location. In case httpredir does not work
for you, please send a report to mirr...@debian.org and select a mirror
from the following list for the time being:
"""

What do you think?

P.S.: Please CC me as I’m not subscribed to this list.

--
Best regards,
Michael




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Re: suggestion to rephrase https://www.debian.org/releases: make clear the names 'stretch' and 'sid' are invariant

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

MJ Ray  wrote:
> Holger Wansing  wrote:
> > -  The unstable distribution is called sid.
> > +  The unstable distribution is always called sid.
> [...]
> > I am not sure if it's worth it.
> > But what do others think?
> 
> I think that would be clearer and is worth doing.

Just changed, should be online within the next hours.
Thanks


Holger

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Re: suggestion to rephrase https://www.debian.org/releases: make clear the names 'stretch' and 'sid' are invariant

[MJ Ray]

Holger Wansing  wrote:

-  The unstable distribution is called sid.
+  The unstable distribution is always called sid.

[...]

I am not sure if it's worth it.
But what do others think?


I think that would be clearer and is worth doing.

--
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http://people.debian.org/~mjr/

Re: suggestion to rephrase https://www.debian.org/releases: make clear the names 'stretch' and 'sid' are invariant

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Joachim Wuttke  wrote:
> Thank you for correcting me.
> You see to which degree I am confused.
> Now, what about changing the text for Unstable?

So, Joachim is proposing the following:



Index: index.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/releases/index.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.63
diff -u -r1.63 index.wml
--- index.wml   25 Apr 2015 04:21:43 -  1.63
+++ index.wml   27 Dec 2015 14:52:37 -
@@ -57,7 +57,7 @@
   who like to live on the edge.
 
 
-  The unstable distribution is called sid.
+  The unstable distribution is always called sid.
 
 
 





I am not sure if it's worth it.
But what do others think?


Holger


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Re: suggestion to rephrase https://www.debian.org/releases: make clear the names 'stretch' and 'sid' are invariant

[Joachim Wuttke]

Thank you for correcting me.
You see to which degree I am confused.
Now, what about changing the text for Unstable?



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Re: suggestion to rephrase https://www.debian.org/releases: make clear the names 'stretch' and 'sid' are invariant

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Am Mi. Dez. 23 15:17:20 2015 GMT+0100 schrieb Joachim Wuttke:
> Dear Debian WWW team:
> 
> May I suggest to rephrase
>»The current "_testing_" distribution is _stretch_«
> as
>»The "_testing_" distribution is always called _stretch_«,
> and
>similarly for _unstable_ / _sid_.

No, that's not correct:

Unstable has a fix codename, it is always named sid.
But Testing gets a new codename, whenever a distribution is
released as Stable, and thus the development cicle for the 
next  Stable begins. 
So, Stretch is the codename of current Testing, and when 
it gets released as the next Stable, Stretch is then Stable. 
 
> Rationale:
> 
> The word "current" is confusing, especially in the context
> set by the preceding paragraph about the codename of "stable".
> For many years, I thought "stretch" was to become the code
> name of the next "stable" release, "sid" would then be promoted
> from "unstable" to "testing", and a new codename would be chosen
> for the next "unstable".
> 
> (I even persisted in this error when these name changes
> did not happen upon release of "squeeze", "wheezy", "jessie" -
> I just thought my memory was unable to keep those idiotic
> codenames apart).

Regards
Holger 

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Re: suggestion for Debian Live webpage

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Daniel Baumann  wrote:
> On 06/13/15 20:40, Holger Wansing wrote:
> > Comments?
> 
> sounds good, thanks for spotting it.

Committed, including Stefans correction.


Thanks

Holger



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Re: suggestion for Debian Live webpage

[Daniel Baumann]

On 06/13/15 20:40, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Comments?

sounds good, thanks for spotting it.

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Re: suggestion for Debian Live webpage

[Stefan Baur]

Am 13.06.2015 um 20:40 schrieb Holger Wansing:
>   If you intent to install Debian from the downloaded live image, 
>   be sure to have a look 
>   at the detailed information about the installation process.
> 
> 
> Comments?

s/intent/intend/

-Stefan


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Re: suggestion for Debian Live webpage

[Paul Wise]

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 2:40 AM, Holger Wansing wrote:

> Comments?

Sounds good to me (from a -www perspective).

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Re: Suggestion for editorial change

[Tomas Nordin]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 11:05:21AM +0100, Tomas Pospisek wrote:
> Am 18.12.2014 um 10:08 schrieb Andrei POPESCU:
> > [CCing you since I don't know if you're subscribed to -www]
> > 
> > On Mi, 17 dec 14, 10:42:19, Tomas Nordin wrote:
> >> Hello Debian
> >>
> >> I was browsing through the page http://www.debian.org/intro/free
> >>
> >> and found room for editorial improvement. I would like to change the 
> >> underlined wordings in
> >> """
> >> Software that is free only in the sense that you don't need to pay to 
> >> use it is hardly free at all. You may be forbidden to pass it on, and 
> >> you are almost certainly prevented from improving it. Software 
> >> licensed at no cost is usually a weapon in a marketing campaign to 
> >> promote a related product or to drive a smaller competitor out of 
> >> business. There is no guarantee that it will stay free.
> >> """
> >> to
> >> "There is no guarantee that it will stay available at no cost"
> > 
> > This can be addressed also with this simple addition.
> > 
> > 
> > Index: english/intro/free.wml
> > ===
> > RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/intro/free.wml,v
> > retrieving revision 1.24
> > diff -u -r1.24 free.wml
> > --- english/intro/free.wml  8 Jun 2014 01:58:21 -   1.24
> > +++ english/intro/free.wml  18 Dec 2014 09:06:51 -
> > @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@
> >  and you are almost certainly prevented from improving it.  Software
> >  licensed at no cost is usually a weapon in a marketing campaign to
> >  promote a related product or to drive a smaller competitor out of
> > -business.  There is no guarantee that it will stay free.
> > +business.  There is no guarantee that it will stay free of charge.
> >  
> >  Truly free software is always free.  Software that is placed in the
> >  public domain can be snapped up and put into non-free programs. Any
> > 
> > 
> > If no objection from -www I can apply this patch at any time.
> 
> I'm not sure that this is a good change. I'd not restrict the meaning of
> that phrase to "free as in beer". The companies "giving away" such
> software could possibly change any terms of the software. Such as f.ex.
> not being availabe any more. Or starting to push ads through it. Or
> restricting the field of usage ("only personal usage") etc. So the price
> is not necessarily the most important thing that can go awry with "free
> as in beer" software. And I think that's the point OSS people are trying
> to make in the first place.
> 
> So I'd rather not restrict the scope of that phrase.
> *t
>
The suggested addition is excellent. I don't know exactly what "phrase"
refers to, but the page clearly aims to guide the newcomers on what free
software is about. The paragraph clearly discuss "freeware". The word
"free" in the discussed sentence cannot have any other meaning than free
beer. It should be good to clarify that, given the aim of the page. The
word free will stay ambiguous.

Also, the paragraph already states that freeware is hardly free at all,
giving the example of 'you' not being allowed to improve it.
 
 


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Re: Suggestion for editorial change

[Tomas Pospisek]

Am 18.12.2014 um 10:08 schrieb Andrei POPESCU:
> [CCing you since I don't know if you're subscribed to -www]
> 
> On Mi, 17 dec 14, 10:42:19, Tomas Nordin wrote:
>> Hello Debian
>>
>> I was browsing through the page http://www.debian.org/intro/free
>>
>> and found room for editorial improvement. I would like to change the 
>> underlined wordings in
>> """
>> Software that is free only in the sense that you don't need to pay to 
>> use it is hardly free at all. You may be forbidden to pass it on, and 
>> you are almost certainly prevented from improving it. Software 
>> licensed at no cost is usually a weapon in a marketing campaign to 
>> promote a related product or to drive a smaller competitor out of 
>> business. There is no guarantee that it will stay free.
>> """
>> to
>> "There is no guarantee that it will stay available at no cost"
> 
> This can be addressed also with this simple addition.
> 
> 
> Index: english/intro/free.wml
> ===
> RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/intro/free.wml,v
> retrieving revision 1.24
> diff -u -r1.24 free.wml
> --- english/intro/free.wml8 Jun 2014 01:58:21 -   1.24
> +++ english/intro/free.wml18 Dec 2014 09:06:51 -
> @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@
>  and you are almost certainly prevented from improving it.  Software
>  licensed at no cost is usually a weapon in a marketing campaign to
>  promote a related product or to drive a smaller competitor out of
> -business.  There is no guarantee that it will stay free.
> +business.  There is no guarantee that it will stay free of charge.
>  
>  Truly free software is always free.  Software that is placed in the
>  public domain can be snapped up and put into non-free programs. Any
> 
> 
> If no objection from -www I can apply this patch at any time.

I'm not sure that this is a good change. I'd not restrict the meaning of
that phrase to "free as in beer". The companies "giving away" such
software could possibly change any terms of the software. Such as f.ex.
not being availabe any more. Or starting to push ads through it. Or
restricting the field of usage ("only personal usage") etc. So the price
is not necessarily the most important thing that can go awry with "free
as in beer" software. And I think that's the point OSS people are trying
to make in the first place.

So I'd rather not restrict the scope of that phrase.
*t


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Re: Suggestion for editorial change

[Andrei POPESCU]

[CCing you since I don't know if you're subscribed to -www]

On Mi, 17 dec 14, 10:42:19, Tomas Nordin wrote:
> Hello Debian
> 
> I was browsing through the page http://www.debian.org/intro/free
> 
> and found room for editorial improvement. I would like to change the 
> underlined wordings in
> """
> Software that is free only in the sense that you don't need to pay to 
> use it is hardly free at all. You may be forbidden to pass it on, and 
> you are almost certainly prevented from improving it. Software 
> licensed at no cost is usually a weapon in a marketing campaign to 
> promote a related product or to drive a smaller competitor out of 
> business. There is no guarantee that it will stay free.
> """
> to
> "There is no guarantee that it will stay available at no cost"

This can be addressed also with this simple addition.


Index: english/intro/free.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/intro/free.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.24
diff -u -r1.24 free.wml
--- english/intro/free.wml  8 Jun 2014 01:58:21 -   1.24
+++ english/intro/free.wml  18 Dec 2014 09:06:51 -
@@ -24,7 +24,7 @@
 and you are almost certainly prevented from improving it.  Software
 licensed at no cost is usually a weapon in a marketing campaign to
 promote a related product or to drive a smaller competitor out of
-business.  There is no guarantee that it will stay free.
+business.  There is no guarantee that it will stay free of charge.
 
 Truly free software is always free.  Software that is placed in the
 public domain can be snapped up and put into non-free programs. Any


If no objection from -www I can apply this patch at any time.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Suggestion: RSS feed for "2013 News" (as with "Project news")

[Imran Chaudhry]

I will change my suggestion to say that the red "RSS" button should be
included on http://www.debian.org/News/

Same for the advisories on http://www.debian.org/security/

I may produce a patch myself for this.


On 7 May 2013 13:20, victory  wrote:
> On Tue, 7 May 2013 13:13:52 +0100
> Imran Chaudhry wrote:
>
>> Just a suggestion, I think an RSS feed for the regular news would be
>> good. I use RSS to get my news and content these days, I'm sure this
>> is increasing among users, and I wanted to know when Wheezy would be
>> released through it.
>> You have it for the "Debian Project News" letters here
>> (http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/) so it would be a good idea to
>> align that with the other news/announcements.
>
> http://www.debian.org/News/news isnt that?
> the link is on the top page
>
> --
> victory
> no need to CC me :-)
> http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/102724 0.0.1.4
> http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/163846 0.0.1
> http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/163848 0.0.1
>
>
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Re: Suggestion: RSS feed for "2013 News" (as with "Project news")

[victory]

On Tue, 7 May 2013 13:13:52 +0100
Imran Chaudhry wrote:

> Just a suggestion, I think an RSS feed for the regular news would be
> good. I use RSS to get my news and content these days, I'm sure this
> is increasing among users, and I wanted to know when Wheezy would be
> released through it.
> You have it for the "Debian Project News" letters here
> (http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/) so it would be a good idea to
> align that with the other news/announcements.

http://www.debian.org/News/news isnt that?
the link is on the top page

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Re: Suggestion

[Paul Wise]

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Gregor Galwas wrote:

> I have tried some of those links (they also worked fine) but I missed the
> information where the shops are located and what language is used.
>
> May I suggest to add a small information where the shop is located and what
> language is used?
> That might help somebody like me who looks for debian merchandise products.

That sounds like a good idea but we don't have the information available.

Would it be possible for you to gather this information for the
existing listings and make a patch for the page? If you can't make a
patch, just gathering the information would be very helpful.

http://www.debian.org/devel/website/using_cvs

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Re: Suggestion

[Albino B Neto]

2013/4/18 Gregor Galwas :
> May I suggest to add a small information where the shop is located and what
> language is used?
> That might help somebody like me who looks for debian merchandise products.

+1

I was thinking the same now. :-)

Albino


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Re: Suggestion: Add the date to the list of speeches (news from Mai 11th)

[Francesca Ciceri]

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 04:03:48PM +0200, Pfannenstein Erik wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I got a suggestion by Paul Menzel on debian-l10n-german that one could add 
> the 
> date (and place) in the list of speeches at the LinuxTag  
> (http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110511) in the future. He thinks that it 
> could attract the people who have no interest for the stories behind the 
> links.
> 
> I support this idea, because it also could serve as some sort of "quick 
> reference" for the ones who plan to visit the talks but can't remember the 
> dates.
> 
> What's your opinion? Would you mind applying it?
> 
> Cheers
> Erik
> 

Hi Erik,
I totally agree with you and Paul, so I've added date and place for every
speech.
The changes will be visible in few hours.

Thank you for your suggestion!

Cheers,
Francesca

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Re: Suggestion - Better targeting of the audience at front page

[Yaroslav Halchenko]

> > Most of the blends have icons, which could be used to spice up the wide
> > Debian logo at http://www.deb.at/ and then used with image map to direct
> > to a particular blend.
> Or a little icon before the link to the given blend.
> If you want to show us what you have in mind, you may patch the homepage
> and us the result.
Cool -- I will come up with a basic mockup whenever I come back from a
traveling mode ;)  Unfortunately my design skills are low, so I hoped
that someone more artistic could give his expression

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010, Simon Paillard wrote:
> >  Debian GNU/Linux provides more than a pure OS: it comes with thousands
> >  of ready to be installed packages[LINK].  Debian is as a great OS for
> >  Juniors [Debian-Junior] as for the scientists [Debian-Science].
> >  Debian has being used in Medicine [Debian-Med] and to help
> >  people with disabilities [Accessibility].  But there is even more of
> >  Debian -- see other "blends" [Blends], "Ports" [Ports page], and
> >  packages [LINK].
> That sounds good.

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Re: Suggestion - Better targeting of the audience at front page

[Simon Paillard]

Hi,

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:04:30AM -0400, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
> Having mentioned once again the announcement about the alternative
> website design, aiming, as far as I can see, more of uniform appearance,
> I would like to suggest a little change to the content of front page for
> the current or any alternative design.

Thanks for your interest in the website.
 
> ATM we have "Debian GNU/Linux provides more than a pure OS: it comes
> with over 25000 packages, precompiled software bundled up in a nice
> format for easy installation on your machine." which, upon click on
[..]
> So, why not to make the face page, more visitor-attractive in terms of
> the content? The simplest one could be changing that sentence to
> something like
> 
>  Debian GNU/Linux provides more than a pure OS: it comes with thousands
>  of ready to be installed packages[LINK].  Debian is as a great OS for
>  Juniors [Debian-Junior] as for the scientists [Debian-Science].
>  Debian has being used in Medicine [Debian-Med] and to help
>  people with disabilities [Accessibility].  But there is even more of
>  Debian -- see other "blends" [Blends], "Ports" [Ports page], and
>  packages [LINK].

That sounds good.

> Most of the blends have icons, which could be used to spice up the wide
> Debian logo at http://www.deb.at/ and then used with image map to direct
> to a particular blend.

Or a little icon before the link to the given blend.
If you want to show us what you have in mind, you may patch the homepage
and us the result.

Best regards.

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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi Kalle, hi list,

On Tue Jun 22, 2010 at 20:27:07 +0100, Kalle Söderman wrote:
> On 18:10 Tue 22 Jun, Umang Varma wrote:
> >  1. The  text looks small compared to non-pre text. Could that be
> > changed? Either the variable width text should be smaller or the fixed
> > width text should be larger (+- 1px maybe enough). Most people have
> > their emails sent wrapped at 80 chars. That, including the
> > margin/padding, occupies half the width of my screen (width is 1024).
> > Say you want to make it work even on a 800x600 screen, it should still
> > look fine if you increase the size by 1px.
> 
> A while ago I took the decision to leave the body font sizes at the user
> defaults, allowing you to set the font size in your browser. If your
> browser is Firefox (and most others) the default monospace setting is
> smaller than the normal text. You can change this setting in the
> preferences. Opera uses larger monospace text than the others by
> default.
> 
> > I don't think I can say this enough, but "Fantastic work!". I doubt I've
> > seen as pretty a GNU Mailman archive to date.
> 
> Thanks, your feedback including helpful criticism is much appreciated,
> keep it coming! 

I could need some nicer icons, so i can replace those arrows on the
thread.html page. IMHO they do not integrate well with the new layout.

See eg
http://lists.deb.at/debian-www/2010/debian-www-201006/threads.html
as example.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Kalle Söderman]

On 18:10 Tue 22 Jun, Umang Varma wrote:
>  1. The  text looks small compared to non-pre text. Could that be
> changed? Either the variable width text should be smaller or the fixed
> width text should be larger (+- 1px maybe enough). Most people have
> their emails sent wrapped at 80 chars. That, including the
> margin/padding, occupies half the width of my screen (width is 1024).
> Say you want to make it work even on a 800x600 screen, it should still
> look fine if you increase the size by 1px.

A while ago I took the decision to leave the body font sizes at the user
defaults, allowing you to set the font size in your browser. If your
browser is Firefox (and most others) the default monospace setting is
smaller than the normal text. You can change this setting in the
preferences. Opera uses larger monospace text than the others by
default.

> I don't think I can say this enough, but "Fantastic work!". I doubt I've
> seen as pretty a GNU Mailman archive to date.

Thanks, your feedback including helpful criticism is much appreciated,
keep it coming! 

-- 
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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Umang Varma]

I decided to (temporarily?) subscribe to the newsgroup anyway now, so
needn't CC me anymore.

On 06/22/2010 03:17 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
>> It's great to see others implementing the design, a good test to make
>> sure the design is robust enough and it chases the problems out much
> 
> I rendered debian-blends so you get a bigger picture, with
> email-threading and so on:
> http://lists.deb.at/debian-blends/2009/debian-blends-200905/msg2.html

Looks great. Just a couple of things I personally feel could be tweaked:

 1. The  text looks small compared to non-pre text. Could that be
changed? Either the variable width text should be smaller or the fixed
width text should be larger (+- 1px maybe enough). Most people have
their emails sent wrapped at 80 chars. That, including the
margin/padding, occupies half the width of my screen (width is 1024).
Say you want to make it work even on a 800x600 screen, it should still
look fine if you increase the size by 1px.

 2. I don't know whether this is a mailmain bug, feature or not even
related to mailman, but many debian mailing list web archives get too
hard to follow when they stop threading at four or five levels (whatever
it is). Can this be increased to seven or eight levels? The text may
need to be wrapped, or the indentation be need to be reduced, but it
would certainly help.

I don't think I can say this enough, but "Fantastic work!". I doubt I've
seen as pretty a GNU Mailman archive to date.

Umang


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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi, 

On Tue Jun 22, 2010 at 00:17:55 +0100, Kalle Söderman wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> 
> On 00:30 Tue 22 Jun, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> > You guys would do me a big favour, if we could please NOT reset the
> > "pre" element in CSS. The text flow does look very evil in list
> > archives.
> 
> It's a mistake of mine, I will update the stylesheet to treat "pre"
> properly. The emails should definately be monospaced.

Rhonda fixed it in www.deb.at's CSS, looks better now.
 
> > beside from that:
> > http://lists.deb.at/debian-announce/debian-announce-2010/msg2.html
> > 
> > I only rendered the debian-announce archive up to now, if we fixed all
> > issues, i will render all archives against the Kalle's layout.
> 
> I belive the stylesheet on www.deb.at has a few quirks, I have not
> updated my patches to apply to the most recent tip for quite a while.
> Hence some strange behaviour beyond the pre issue mentioned above.
> 
> When looking at your page above I noticed that the breadcrumbs are
> within a span element. If you could use a  instead
> the appearance would match the rest of the site. Removing the top 
> would save some vertical space and should look good when the breadcrumbs
> are properly formatted. If any of those things are difficult we can find
> some way to work around it.
> 
> It's great to see others implementing the design, a good test to make
> sure the design is robust enough and it chases the problems out much

I rendered debian-blends so you get a bigger picture, with
email-threading and so on:
http://lists.deb.at/debian-blends/2009/debian-blends-200905/msg2.html

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Kalle Söderman]

Hi Martin,

On 00:30 Tue 22 Jun, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> You guys would do me a big favour, if we could please NOT reset the
> "pre" element in CSS. The text flow does look very evil in list
> archives.

It's a mistake of mine, I will update the stylesheet to treat "pre"
properly. The emails should definately be monospaced.

> beside from that:
> http://lists.deb.at/debian-announce/debian-announce-2010/msg2.html
> 
> I only rendered the debian-announce archive up to now, if we fixed all
> issues, i will render all archives against the Kalle's layout.

I belive the stylesheet on www.deb.at has a few quirks, I have not
updated my patches to apply to the most recent tip for quite a while.
Hence some strange behaviour beyond the pre issue mentioned above.

When looking at your page above I noticed that the breadcrumbs are
within a span element. If you could use a  instead
the appearance would match the rest of the site. Removing the top 
would save some vertical space and should look good when the breadcrumbs
are properly formatted. If any of those things are difficult we can find
some way to work around it.

It's great to see others implementing the design, a good test to make
sure the design is robust enough and it chases the problems out much
quicker.

Regards
Kalle
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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Andrei Popescu]

On Ma, 22 iun 10, 00:30:02, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> 
> beside from that:
> http://lists.deb.at/debian-announce/debian-announce-2010/msg2.html
> 
> I only rendered the debian-announce archive up to now, if we fixed all
> issues, i will render all archives against the Kalle's layout.

But please do use fixed width font for the archives, otherwise some 
mails (e.g. those containing computer output, but not only) will look 
very strange...

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi, 

On Mon Jun 21, 2010 at 14:00:58 +0200, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> On Mon Jun 21, 2010 at 13:01:02 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > * Umang Varma  [2010-06-21 12:12:08 CEST]:
> > > On 06/21/2010 12:51 PM, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> > > >  Also, Kalle's proposal doesn't only cover the main website but has
> > > > created a thoughtful suggestion that works for other parts of the Debian
> > > > web presence. This is why I am especially convinced that that's the
> > > > path to pursue and that's why I do it. Just take a look at
> > > >  to see another approach of it, or (with great
> > > > thanks to Martin Zobel-Heals!) see .
> > >
> > > Wow! I didn't see those. Is all this work maintained in any public VCS?
> > 
> >  Partly. The git theme is on git.deb.at directly (deb/gitweb), not sure
> > about Zobel's changes to lists though (and sorry for the typo, it's
> > Helas of course).
> 
> I didn't do any changes to CSS, i just sourced the CSS from www.deb.at.
> 
> The changes to html code are trivial, and given that i want the usual
> "debian" menubar header with the old layout as well, i don't think there
> is anything to commit for the new layout/CSS. Expect changes to the
> archive layout on http://lists.deb.at in the next days, i think i found
> out today what to need to be changed in the mhonarc code.

I worked on the mhonarc code tonight, and it looks it was much less to
hack than i expected. I need to admit, i didn't check against any
html-validator, but that can be done later.

You guys would do me a big favour, if we could please NOT reset the
"pre" element in CSS. The text flow does look very evil in list
archives.

beside from that:
http://lists.deb.at/debian-announce/debian-announce-2010/msg2.html

I only rendered the debian-announce archive up to now, if we fixed all
issues, i will render all archives against the Kalle's layout.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi, 

On Mon Jun 21, 2010 at 13:01:02 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
>   Hi!
> 
> * Umang Varma  [2010-06-21 12:12:08 CEST]:
> > On 06/21/2010 12:51 PM, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> > >  Also, Kalle's proposal doesn't only cover the main website but has
> > > created a thoughtful suggestion that works for other parts of the Debian
> > > web presence. This is why I am especially convinced that that's the
> > > path to pursue and that's why I do it. Just take a look at
> > >  to see another approach of it, or (with great
> > > thanks to Martin Zobel-Heals!) see .
> >
> > Wow! I didn't see those. Is all this work maintained in any public VCS?
> 
>  Partly. The git theme is on git.deb.at directly (deb/gitweb), not sure
> about Zobel's changes to lists though (and sorry for the typo, it's
> Helas of course).

I didn't do any changes to CSS, i just sourced the CSS from www.deb.at.

The changes to html code are trivial, and given that i want the usual
"debian" menubar header with the old layout as well, i don't think there
is anything to commit for the new layout/CSS. Expect changes to the
archive layout on http://lists.deb.at in the next days, i think i found
out today what to need to be changed in the mhonarc code.

Cheers
Martin
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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Gerfried Fuchs]

Hi!

* Umang Varma  [2010-06-21 12:12:08 CEST]:
> On 06/21/2010 12:51 PM, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> >  Also, Kalle's proposal doesn't only cover the main website but has
> > created a thoughtful suggestion that works for other parts of the Debian
> > web presence. This is why I am especially convinced that that's the
> > path to pursue and that's why I do it. Just take a look at
> >  to see another approach of it, or (with great
> > thanks to Martin Zobel-Heals!) see .
>
> Wow! I didn't see those. Is all this work maintained in any public VCS?

 Partly. The git theme is on git.deb.at directly (deb/gitweb), not sure
about Zobel's changes to lists though (and sorry for the typo, it's
Helas of course).

 Kalle has patches on his site: http://kalleswork.net/projects/debian/ -
this is what I used to get it working on 
(currently slightly broken, have to investigate).

 I plan to add more and more stuff to git.deb.at for the purpose of
getting things more visible of what is done and what to tweak.

> Also, is there some sort of plan for approval as yet for this? If the
> pages all work, then it would be great to have this published with Squeeze!

 Given that the feedback given always were on the positive side (I also
consider "this needs to get changed/addressed" as positive feedback) I
think this can be seen as that the approval is already there. And yes,
it would be swift to be able to push it out around the squeeze time. Or
maybe around the birthday time, not sure though wether we can invest
enough to get it into decent shape until then. Hopes are always high. :)

 So long!
Rhonda
-- 
"Lediglich 11 Prozent der Arbeitgeber sind der Meinung, dass jeder
Mensch auch ein Privatleben haben sollte."
-- http://www.karriere.at/artikel/884/


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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Umang Varma]

On 06/21/2010 12:51 PM, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
>> I saw that and, in my opinion, that is the kind of great first impress a
>> great distro's website should have! I'm guessing, however, that it
>> changes the layout too much for a quick approval. I am not suggesting
>> the layout I posted be used, but I'm just saying minor changes should be
>> made soon.
> 
>  It's not as much as you presume. And even then, a quick approval might
> break some of the subpages easily too, so it's not that big of a gain to
> change in one direction now (and get complaints about some sub pages)
> and later change again - I don't believe in regular changes, it would
> confuse even more.
I see. I didn't think of that.
>  Also, Kalle's proposal doesn't only cover the main website but has
> created a thoughtful suggestion that works for other parts of the Debian
> web presence. This is why I am especially convinced that that's the
> path to pursue and that's why I do it. Just take a look at
>  to see another approach of it, or (with great
> thanks to Martin Zobel-Heals!) see .
Wow! I didn't see those. Is all this work maintained in any public VCS?
Also, is there some sort of plan for approval as yet for this? If the
pages all work, then it would be great to have this published with Squeeze!
>  Thanks for your effort and suggestions anyway!
No at all. I hardly did anything.

Keep up the great work, Kalle and everyone on d-www! :-)

Umang


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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Gerfried Fuchs]

Hi!

* Umang Varma  [2010-06-14 14:08:52 CEST]:
> ! Please CC me as I am not subscribed to the debian-www mailing list !

 Thanks for reminding me, was about to remove you from the Cc list :)

> On 06/14/2010 12:50 PM, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> >  From what I understood most of them only change minor bits just like
> > your suggestion. Otherwise I agree with you, they won't be pratcial to
> > adopt. E.g. I started with getting Kalle's propsal to work on
> > 
>
> I saw that and, in my opinion, that is the kind of great first impress a
> great distro's website should have! I'm guessing, however, that it
> changes the layout too much for a quick approval. I am not suggesting
> the layout I posted be used, but I'm just saying minor changes should be
> made soon.

 It's not as much as you presume. And even then, a quick approval might
break some of the subpages easily too, so it's not that big of a gain to
change in one direction now (and get complaints about some sub pages)
and later change again - I don't believe in regular changes, it would
confuse even more.

> >  It is an interesting approach and looks sweet, though there are some
> > things that itch me a bit: The blue text and the red headlines are a bit
> > too much, and personally I dislike dotted links instead of clearly
> > underlined.
>
> I was a bit unsure of that myself when I first put it up. I've changed
> that now. [1]

 See above - it's not only the entry page - which has a different layout
than most other pages anyway - it's also about subpages and how they
could go with the flow.

 Also, Kalle's proposal doesn't only cover the main website but has
created a thoughtful suggestion that works for other parts of the Debian
web presence. This is why I am especially convinced that that's the
path to pursue and that's why I do it. Just take a look at
 to see another approach of it, or (with great
thanks to Martin Zobel-Heals!) see .

 Thanks for your effort and suggestions anyway!
Rhonda
-- 
"Lediglich 11 Prozent der Arbeitgeber sind der Meinung, dass jeder
Mensch auch ein Privatleben haben sollte."
-- http://www.karriere.at/artikel/884/


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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Umang Varma]

! Please CC me as I am not subscribed to the debian-www mailing list !

On 06/14/2010 12:50 PM, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
>  First of all - please be patient with us. We are working on this
> voluntary, and sometimes it can happen that lengthy mails take their
> time to reply to. :)
I'm sorry for that post. I checked the web archives and there seemed to
be some spam that I was afraid my first email got hidden under. I
apologize.
>> Whichever ones that do work from [1] seem to have major changes (or are
>> written from scratch?). I'm not sure of the process, but I think these
>> changes can't be accepted or applied very soon.
> 
>  From what I understood most of them only change minor bits just like
> your suggestion. Otherwise I agree with you, they won't be pratcial to
> adopt. E.g. I started with getting Kalle's propsal to work on
> 
I saw that and, in my opinion, that is the kind of great first impress a
great distro's website should have! I'm guessing, however, that it
changes the layout too much for a quick approval. I am not suggesting
the layout I posted be used, but I'm just saying minor changes should be
made soon.
>> So I'd like to suggest that only small changes are made to the layout
>> to remove the not-so-nice parts. I've done a quick and very rough job
>> of making one such design. [2]
> 
>  It is an interesting approach and looks sweet, though there are some
> things that itch me a bit: The blue text and the red headlines are a bit
> too much, and personally I dislike dotted links instead of clearly
> underlined.
I was a bit unsure of that myself when I first put it up. I've changed
that now. [1]
>> I'm far from an expert in these field and don't think my changes are
>> great. However, the intention of this email is to suggest that only
>> small changes (not necessarily mine) are made soon to the CSS to make
>> the website look a bit better.
> 
>  See Kalle's proposal, it doesn't have too deep changes and it comes
> with a patch that makes it clear what needs to get changed (and is
> already changed on the above site).
To simplify things, I've attached one for the example layout I posted
previously with a few changes so that only the css files needs to be
patched. (I hope a `bzr diff` serves as one, I have not used the diff
from diffutils)

[1]: http://www.umang.ath.cx/debianwww/

Umang
=== modified file 'debian.css'
--- debian.css	2010-06-14 11:38:43 +
+++ debian.css	2010-06-14 11:42:34 +
@@ -6,6 +6,7 @@
 	background-color: #FF;
 	margin: 0 4px 0 4px;
 	padding: 0;
+	font-family: LiberationSans, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana;
 }
 
 img { border: 0; }
@@ -77,17 +78,11 @@
 /* upper nested header box*/
 #upperheader {
 	width: 100%;
-	margin-top: 11px;
+	margin: 18px 0 10px 53px;
 	height: auto;
 	background: #FF;
 }
 
-#logo {
-	float: left;
-	margin-left: 6px;
-	background: #FF;
-}
-
 #serverselect {
 	float: right;
 	display: block;
@@ -156,33 +151,12 @@
 	padding-top: 6px;
 	padding-bottom: 4px;
 	width: 100%;
-	height: auto;
+	height: 3px;
 	text-align: center;
 	background: #BF1238;
 }
 #navbar ul {
-	display: inline;
-	list-style-type: none; 
-	padding-left: 0px;
-	line-height: 1.5em;
-}
-#navbar ul li {
-	display: inline;
-	margin: 0;
-	white-space: nowrap;
-}
-#navbar a {
-	color: #FF;
-	text-decoration: none;
-	padding: 0.2em 0.4em 0.2em 0.4em;
-	background-color: #84;
-	border: 1px solid #84;
-	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
-	font-weight: bold;
-	font-size: 0.9em;
-}
-#navbar a:hover {
-	background: #CC;
+	display:none;
 }
 #navbar .hidecss, .hidecss {
 	display: none;
@@ -199,6 +173,7 @@
 #inner {
 	margin: -2px;
 	margin-top: 0;
+	margin-bottom:20px;
 	width: 100%;
 	background: #FF;
 	/* overflow: auto; */
@@ -210,19 +185,15 @@
 	padding-left: 0;
 	padding-bottom: 1em;
 	width: auto;
-	background: #BBDDFF;
 	font-size: 0.9em;
 	font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
-	border: 1px solid #BBDDFF;
 	/* overflow: auto; */
 }
 #leftcol a:link, #leftcol a:visited {
+	text-decoration:none;
+	color:#1133ff;
 	display: block;
 }
-#leftcol a:hover {
-	background-color: #DDEEFF;
-	/* background-color: #FF; */
-}
 #leftcol ul {
 	margin: 2px;
 	padding: 0;
@@ -248,6 +219,11 @@
 	font-size: 0.9em;
 	margin: 0;
 }
+#leftcol>ul>li>a {
+	border-bottom: 3px solid #BF1238;
+	padding-bottom: 3px;
+	margin-bottom: 3px;
+}
 #leftcol ul li a {
 	line-height: 1.2em;
 	padding-right: 0.5em;
@@ -278,6 +254,25 @@
 #leftcol ul ul .menuselected {
 	text-indent: 0.5em;
 }
+
+h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
+	font-family: Verdana, LiberationSans, Helvetica, Arial;
+}
+
+hr {
+	color: #BF1238;
+	background-color: #BF1238;
+	height:2px;
+	border:none;
+}
+#maincol a:link, #maincol a:visited, #maincol a:hover, #maincol a:active {
+	color:#1133ff;
+	border-bottom:1px solid #BF1238;
+	text-decoration:none;
+}	
+#maincol a:hover {
+	background-color: #ffaabb;
+}
 #maincol {
 	background: #FF;
 	margin-left: 12em;
@@ -315,17 +310,26 

Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Gerfried Fuchs]

Hi!

 First of all - please be patient with us. We are working on this
voluntary, and sometimes it can happen that lengthy mails take their
time to reply to. :)

* Umang Varma  [2010-06-09 18:44:55 CEST]:
> ! Please CC me as I am not subscribed to the debian-www mailing list !

 Thanks for the notice, please keep it in your additional mails so noone
forgets about it. Also, you are invited to follow through the web
archive of the list just in case: 

> Whichever ones that do work from [1] seem to have major changes (or are
> written from scratch?). I'm not sure of the process, but I think these
> changes can't be accepted or applied very soon.

 From what I understood most of them only change minor bits just like
your suggestion. Otherwise I agree with you, they won't be pratcial to
adopt. E.g. I started with getting Kalle's propsal to work on


> So I'd like to suggest that only small changes are made to the layout
> to remove the not-so-nice parts. I've done a quick and very rough job
> of making one such design. [2]

 It is an interesting approach and looks sweet, though there are some
things that itch me a bit: The blue text and the red headlines are a bit
too much, and personally I dislike dotted links instead of clearly
underlined.

 These are my first impressions though.

> I'm far from an expert in these field and don't think my changes are
> great. However, the intention of this email is to suggest that only
> small changes (not necessarily mine) are made soon to the CSS to make
> the website look a bit better.

 See Kalle's proposal, it doesn't have too deep changes and it comes
with a patch that makes it clear what needs to get changed (and is
already changed on the above site).

 Thanks!
Rhonda
-- 
"most users choose convenience over security, and that's reflected in the
 choice of the current default"
   Hin-Tak Leung -- http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=691339#c7


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Re: Suggestion - Minor changes to main page for now

[Umang Varma]

On 06/09/2010 10:14 PM, Umang Varma wrote:
> So I'd like to suggest that only small changes are made to the layout
> to remove the not-so-nice parts.
Anyone agree/disagree?


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)  [2009-12-16 05:28:50 CET]:
> On 26-11-2009 07:26, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> > * Simon Paillard  [2009-11-01 
> > 19:25:19 CET]:
> >> IMHO, it doesn't need to be sorted. It should instead do the same as
> >> http://get.debian.net/ and display the arch form the user first.
> > 
> >  The same? You sure? Including something like this?
> > 
> > #v+
> > WARNING: Oops, it seems you have no JavaScript enabled or your browser
> > don't support it. I won't be useful for you without JavaScript support.
> > Please go to http://www.debian.org/CD/ to get Debian or enable the
> > JavaScript support on your browser if possible.
> > #v-
> 
>   Late reply, I know, sorry.
> 
>   It was the first prototype, we want to get rid of
> the JavaScript and run the checks on the server side. In
> fact, there is another prototype that does exactly that
> but didn't get published (yet).
> 
>   We also plan to add l10n/i18n, content negotiation
> and other types of suggestions/guesses. :-)

 Sure, and don't get me wrong, I don't object to JavaScript solutions.
But both that approach and sever-side parts are a a trouble for the main
Debian website, both accessibility/usability wise and mirroring wise.
The requirements for our website mirrors are pretty low and even though
we host www.debian.org now through geodns I don't want to increase the
barrier, not all mirrors are under our control.

 Thanks, and good luck with your efforts on the other hand!
Rhonda


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 26-11-2009 07:26, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> * Simon Paillard  [2009-11-01 19:25:19 
> CET]:
>> IMHO, it doesn't need to be sorted. It should instead do the same as
>> http://get.debian.net/ and display the arch form the user first.
> 
>  The same? You sure? Including something like this?
> 
> #v+
> WARNING: Oops, it seems you have no JavaScript enabled or your browser
> don't support it. I won't be useful for you without JavaScript support.
> Please go to http://www.debian.org/CD/ to get Debian or enable the
> JavaScript support on your browser if possible.
> #v-

Late reply, I know, sorry.

It was the first prototype, we want to get rid of
the JavaScript and run the checks on the server side. In
fact, there is another prototype that does exactly that
but didn't get published (yet).

We also plan to add l10n/i18n, content negotiation
and other types of suggestions/guesses. :-)

Kind regards,
- --
Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)
"Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!"
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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cWMAniZ3dfiiGsiCQcrUyPJ6kEqeW3f3
=A39b
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Alexander Reichle-Schmehl]

Hi!

* Gerfried Fuchs  [091127 11:43]:
>  One suggestion that is pretty easy to implement and also should be
> helpful straight ahead: Why not make amd64 and i386 appear in *bold*
> letters?

Would it be to much to ask to replace the single "amd64" with "amd64 /
Intel EM64-T" (or however it's called) on the webpages?  That might
reduce the "your ia64 image doesn't boot on my intel box" complaints.

Best Regards,
  Alexander


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Frans Pop  [2009-11-27 00:27:07 CET]:
> On Thursday 26 November 2009, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > Why should users have to learn what Debian's internal name for their
> > architecture is? 
> 
> Because that is what they see/need when they look at the sources.list or 
> package names?

 I have no powerpc in my sources.list, and package names don't carry
powerpc for me neither.

 On the other hand, enabling users to learn isn't a bad thing in itself.
If it is additional, we shouldn't depend too much on educating our users
- offering it is enough.

 One suggestion that is pretty easy to implement and also should be
helpful straight ahead: Why not make amd64 and i386 appear in *bold*
letters? That way they stand out and people are more likely to
recoginize and choose them. Ordering and discussions on renaming one way
or another might confuse, having it clearly standing out is a concept
that everyone should easy be able to understand.

 You can afterwards continue to discuss wether allcaps or lowercase or
the arch part from the package filename is the best option. ;)

 So long! :)
Rhonda


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Frans Pop]

On Thursday 26 November 2009, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:17:07PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > Do you really think that having "AMD64", "Intel x86" and "Intel IA-64"
> > instead of amd64, i386, ia64 will make people magically choose AMD64
> > if they're looking for 64-bit Intel support?

I just see that my message (that Matthew replied to) did not make it to the 
d-www list, probably because of the size of the two attachments.

However, the message can be seen in the archive of the d-boot list:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2009/11/msg00515.html


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Frans Pop]

On Thursday 26 November 2009, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:17:07PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > Do you really think that having "AMD64", "Intel x86" and "Intel IA-64"
> > instead of amd64, i386, ia64 will make people magically choose AMD64
> > if they're looking for 64-bit Intel support?
>
> I hadn't realised that Simon had made this change.  That was the whole
> _point_.  Put the popular architectures first, and call them something
> meaningful, ie:
>
> [x86 32-bit] [x86 64-bit] [PowerPC]

Changing things this way still does not make it fit in the current layout 
of the page and will still reduce readability (IMO).

Also, making this change *only* for the image links is IMO not a good idea 
because it just introduces yet another identification for architectures. 
We already use too many different names and descriptions in different 
places.

> Why should users have to learn what Debian's internal name for their
> architecture is? 

Because that is what they see/need when they look at the sources.list or 
package names?

> I have no objection to changing the layout.

I would prefer a full redesign over just changing the layout. The current 
pages are problematic exactly because they try to fit everything on a 
single page and thus allow little room for explanation.
But OTOH that's also their great strength for users who *do* know what they 
want, so solving the issue by linking to separate page(s) that add a good 
explanation of what's what is still an option too.

An alternative could be to have a single page per release per architecture.
Such pages would allow for much more information about the architecture 
(including links to related architectures) and more information about the 
different images.


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Matthew Wilcox]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:17:07PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> Do you really think that having "AMD64", "Intel x86" and "Intel IA-64" 
> instead of amd64, i386, ia64 will make people magically choose AMD64 if 
> they're looking for 64-bit Intel support?

I hadn't realised that Simon had made this change.  That was the whole
_point_.  Put the popular architectures first, and call them something
meaningful, ie:

[x86 32-bit] [x86 64-bit] [PowerPC]

The exact names are debatable of course, but expecting people to deduce
that 'amd64' is the right link to click on for their shiny new Intel
Xeon system clearly isn't working.

> The current pages would IMO be more improved by adding a clear link to a 
> *separate* page with info on "how to choose the correct architecture", 
> which contains a clear description of what each architecture is.

I'm not sure that's a great idea either.  Why should users have
to learn what Debian's internal name for their architecture is?

> If you want to really improve the links to images, which you're very 
> welcome to do, then please do it by *redesigning* the pages with the links 
> instead of forcing changes into an existing layout where the changes do 
> more harm than that they improve things.

I have no objection to changing the layout.  I want to make this page
more new-user friendly (since it's rather key to getting new users into
Debian).

-- 
Matthew Wilcox  Intel Open Source Technology Centre
"Bill, look, we understand that you're interested in selling us this
operating system, but compare it to ours.  We can't possibly take such
a retrograde step."


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Simon Paillard  [2009-11-01 19:25:19 
CET]:
> IMHO, it doesn't need to be sorted. It should instead do the same as
> http://get.debian.net/ and display the arch form the user first.

 The same? You sure? Including something like this?

#v+
WARNING: Oops, it seems you have no JavaScript enabled or your browser
don't support it. I won't be useful for you without JavaScript support.
Please go to http://www.debian.org/CD/ to get Debian or enable the
JavaScript support on your browser if possible.
#v-

 :)
Rhonda


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Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Simon Paillard]

On Sun, Nov 01, 2009 at 07:25:19PM +0100, Simon Paillard wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 01, 2009 at 09:50:54AM -0700, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > After watching the Nth person bitch on IRC that they downloaded the ia64
> > image when they meant to download the amd64 image, I have a constructive
> > suggestion for improving matters.
[..]
> > # netinst CD image (generally 135-175 MB)
> > [alpha][amd64][arm][armel][hppa][i386][ia64][mips][mipsel][powerpc][sparc]
> > 
> > to this:
> > # netinst CD image (generally 135-175 MB)
> > [x86 32-bit][x86 64-bit][PowerPC][ARM (new ABI)][ARM (old ABI)][DEC 
> > Alpha][HP PA-RISC][Itanium][MIPS][Little Endian MIPS][SPARC]
> 
> Seconded, thanks for the suggestion.
> That would look like :
> http://teubr.eu.org/~spaillar/debian/webwml/english/releases/lenny/debian-installer/index.en.html

Fixed now.

Frans, any opinion about this ?

Looking at http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/ and
http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/installmanual
I ever wonder if a table with a line per arch, and a media per columb
would not be more appropriate.

> > (I realise this opens us to all kinds of bikeshedding around the exact
> > wording, the ordering and so on.  My suggestion is that someone just make
> > a decision and stick to it, because almost anything would be better than
> > the alphabetical arch-name list we currently have).
> 
> IMHO, it doesn't need to be sorted. It should instead do the same as
> http://get.debian.net/ and display the arch form the user first.
> 
> If this need any order, that should be sorted by inst score from popcon:
> http://popcon.debian.org/ 

That would be for a next step I guess.

-- 
Simon Paillard
? debian/release_data.wml
Index: debian/installer.wml
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/template/debian/installer.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.14
diff -u -r1.14 installer.wml
--- debian/installer.wml	19 Feb 2009 02:27:21 -	1.14
+++ debian/installer.wml	24 Nov 2009 23:32:00 -
@@ -29,7 +29,7 @@
   
 
   />>
-">@ARCH@]" />
+"><: print ( $arch...@arch@} or '@ARCH@') :>]" />
   
   />>
 

Re: Suggestion: Change the link names on http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

[Simon Paillard]

Hi,

On Sun, Nov 01, 2009 at 09:50:54AM -0700, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> After watching the Nth person bitch on IRC that they downloaded the ia64
> image when they meant to download the amd64 image, I have a constructive
> suggestion for improving matters.
> 
> Changing the architecture name would be very disruptive, so that's out.
> 
> But we could easily change this:
> 
> # netinst CD image (generally 135-175 MB)
> [alpha][amd64][arm][armel][hppa][i386][ia64][mips][mipsel][powerpc][sparc]
> 
> to this:
> # netinst CD image (generally 135-175 MB)
> [x86 32-bit][x86 64-bit][PowerPC][ARM (new ABI)][ARM (old ABI)][DEC Alpha][HP 
> PA-RISC][Itanium][MIPS][Little Endian MIPS][SPARC]

Seconded, thanks for the suggestion.
That would look like :
http://teubr.eu.org/~spaillar/debian/webwml/english/releases/lenny/debian-installer/index.en.html

Notice the 0 that is specific to multi-arch. I don't understand yet.

> (I realise this opens us to all kinds of bikeshedding around the exact
> wording, the ordering and so on.  My suggestion is that someone just make
> a decision and stick to it, because almost anything would be better than
> the alphabetical arch-name list we currently have).

IMHO, it doesn't need to be sorted. It should instead do the same as
http://get.debian.net/ and display the arch form the user first.

If this need any order, that should be sorted by inst score from popcon:
http://popcon.debian.org/ 

-- 
Simon Paillard


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Re: Suggestion for rewording on "getting Debian" page

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Alex!

You wrote:

> I was reading over the Debian website, and came across one line that concerns 
> me: "You can install Debian on more than one machine." While it's obvious to 
> me that you mean that a Debian CD can be used to install on as many computers 
> as one wants (as opposed to Windows which it is only legal to install on one 
> per license), people less familiar with free software may think this means 
> that if they download their own copy they can only install it on a single 
> computer, and they must buy a CD in order to install on multiple machines.

Thanks for the suggestion.  The wording was indeed a bit confusing.  I
changed it to "You can install Debian (on as many machines as you like)
without downloading all packages yourself".  I think that should clear
things up.
The change should be online in a few hours.

> Just a suggestion. Also, thanks for the wonderful, free operating system:-)

You're very welcome!

Kind regards,
Bas.

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|| Fingerprint: c1f5 f24c d514 3fec 8bf6 |
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++ 


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Re: suggestion of a new page on Debian.org

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Jul 23, 2006 at 06:42:04PM -0400, andrei raevsky wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to write a number of book reviews for Debian.org about
> the new Debian books recently published in English, French and German.
> 
> Alas - I do not know sgml nor have I physically have the possibility
> to dedicate any time to learn it.
> 
> Lastly, since these book reviews would be about 2-4 paragraphs in
> length each they would be longer than the ones currently on
> http://www.debian.org/doc/books.  Do you think it would be possible
> for you to create a separate page with these reviews?

Perhaps.

However, I'm not entirely sure it would be a good idea to publish such
reviews on the Debian website. Debian has always tried to remain neutral
in mentioning products and services relating to Debian, whether these
products are CD-ROM disks, consultancy services, or books; this is
because Debian cannot afford having an opinion about these products
and/or services.

That being said, I do not think that there is anything wrong with Debian
linking to reviews about Debian-related books, provided it is made
properly clear that these reviews as should not be seen as Debian's
opinion, and that other reviews will be added on request, or something
similar.

> Sorry that I cannot do it all myself and send you a fully
> publication-ready sgmled product, but I can only offer to help the
> Debian Project with the skills I have.

That is really the best any of us can do.

-- 
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  -- Seven Of Nine, "Ashes to Ashes", stardate 53679.4


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Re: Suggestion for the mailto-link

[Frédéric Bothamy]

* Matt Kraai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-10-11 16:42] :
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 07:08:00PM +0200, Frédéric Bothamy wrote:
> > * Matt Kraai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-10-10 16:12] :
> > > On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 08:36:29PM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> > > > There are two problems with the mailto-link for the webmaster on the  
> > > > pages:
> > > > 
> > > > 1. If it is set to debian-www mailing list, people do not know, that  
> > > > they are writing to a mailing list
> > > > 2. As there is not default subject set, we cannot see, from which  
> > > > page people come
> > > > 
> > > > On my own pages I have something like
> > > > 
> > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > > 20www.debian.org">webmaster mailing list and different addresses.
> > > > 
> > > > I nice idea would be setting the subject to include the page:
> > > > 
> > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > > 20www.debian.org/path-to-page/page">webmaster mailing list
> > > > 
> > > > And as most mail programs (MUAs) support body:
> > > > 
> > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/path-to- 
> > > > page/page?body=Please%20 note,%20that%20you%20are%20writing%20your  
> > > > comment%20to%20a maling%20list!">webmaster mailing list
> > > > 
> > > > There are other variants possible.
> > > 
> > > Another common problem that it would be nice to address is non-English
> > > posts.  It would be nice if translators would direct users that don't
> > > speak English to a localized list.
> > 
> > This is already done for French pages, the user is instructed to report
> > problems in the webpages either to debian-www in English or
> > debian-l10n-french in French.
> 
> Is there a way to add a comment that translators will see asking them
> to do the same?

This is already done in the templates.pot file (in the Debian CVS under
webwml/english/po):

#. TRANSLATORS: Please make clear in the translation of the following
#. item that mail sent to the debian-www list *must* be in English. Also,
#. you can add some information of your own translation mailing list
#. (i.e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]) for reporting things in
#. your language.
#: ../../english/template/debian/footer.wml:10
msgid "To report a problem with the web site, e-mail mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]">debian-www@lists.debian.org.  For other contact information, 
see the Debian contact page."
msgstr ""


Fred


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Re: Suggestion for the mailto-link

[Matt Kraai]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 07:08:00PM +0200, Frédéric Bothamy wrote:
> * Matt Kraai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-10-10 16:12] :
> > On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 08:36:29PM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> > > There are two problems with the mailto-link for the webmaster on the  
> > > pages:
> > > 
> > > 1. If it is set to debian-www mailing list, people do not know, that  
> > > they are writing to a mailing list
> > > 2. As there is not default subject set, we cannot see, from which  
> > > page people come
> > > 
> > > On my own pages I have something like
> > > 
> > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > 20www.debian.org">webmaster mailing list and different addresses.
> > > 
> > > I nice idea would be setting the subject to include the page:
> > > 
> > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > 20www.debian.org/path-to-page/page">webmaster mailing list
> > > 
> > > And as most mail programs (MUAs) support body:
> > > 
> > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/path-to- 
> > > page/page?body=Please%20 note,%20that%20you%20are%20writing%20your  
> > > comment%20to%20a maling%20list!">webmaster mailing list
> > > 
> > > There are other variants possible.
> > 
> > Another common problem that it would be nice to address is non-English
> > posts.  It would be nice if translators would direct users that don't
> > speak English to a localized list.
> 
> This is already done for French pages, the user is instructed to report
> problems in the webpages either to debian-www in English or
> debian-l10n-french in French.

Is there a way to add a comment that translators will see asking them
to do the same?

-- 
Matt


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Re: Suggestion for the mailto-link

[Frédéric Bothamy]

* Matt Kraai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-10-10 16:12] :
> On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 08:36:29PM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> > There are two problems with the mailto-link for the webmaster on the  
> > pages:
> > 
> > 1. If it is set to debian-www mailing list, people do not know, that  
> > they are writing to a mailing list
> > 2. As there is not default subject set, we cannot see, from which  
> > page people come
> > 
> > On my own pages I have something like
> > 
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 20www.debian.org">webmaster mailing list and different addresses.
> > 
> > I nice idea would be setting the subject to include the page:
> > 
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 20www.debian.org/path-to-page/page">webmaster mailing list
> > 
> > And as most mail programs (MUAs) support body:
> > 
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/path-to- 
> > page/page?body=Please%20 note,%20that%20you%20are%20writing%20your  
> > comment%20to%20a maling%20list!">webmaster mailing list
> > 
> > There are other variants possible.
> 
> Another common problem that it would be nice to address is non-English
> posts.  It would be nice if translators would direct users that don't
> speak English to a localized list.

This is already done for French pages, the user is instructed to report
problems in the webpages either to debian-www in English or
debian-l10n-french in French.


Fred


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Re: Suggestion for the mailto-link

[David Martínez Moreno]

El martes, 11 de octubre de 2005 01:12, Matt Kraai escribió:
> Another common problem that it would be nice to address is non-English
> posts.  It would be nice if translators would direct users that don't
> speak English to a localized list.

Well, I think that I tried to put "(please write in English)" in most 
of the 
appearances of the debian-www mailto link. I think that this is important.

And regarding mails coming to the mailing list in other languages, I 
think 
that we cope quite well with them. There are about 5 or maybe 10 a month.

Best regards,


Ender.
-- 
Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but
 uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're
 fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
-- Han Solo (Star Wars).
--
Debian developer


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Re: Suggestion for the mailto-link

[Matt Kraai]

On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 08:36:29PM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> There are two problems with the mailto-link for the webmaster on the  
> pages:
> 
> 1. If it is set to debian-www mailing list, people do not know, that  
> they are writing to a mailing list
> 2. As there is not default subject set, we cannot see, from which  
> page people come
> 
> On my own pages I have something like
> 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 20www.debian.org">webmaster mailing list and different addresses.
> 
> I nice idea would be setting the subject to include the page:
> 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 20www.debian.org/path-to-page/page">webmaster mailing list
> 
> And as most mail programs (MUAs) support body:
> 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/path-to- 
> page/page?body=Please%20 note,%20that%20you%20are%20writing%20your  
> comment%20to%20a maling%20list!">webmaster mailing list
> 
> There are other variants possible.

Another common problem that it would be nice to address is non-English
posts.  It would be nice if translators would direct users that don't
speak English to a localized list.

-- 
Matt


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Re: Suggestion

[David Moreno Garza]

On Sun, 2005-09-25 at 16:40 +, Pedro M (Morphix User) wrote:
> I suggest include a link to http://wiki.debian.org in http://www.debian.org

I'd say placing it on /devel would make more sense. Probably under
"Projects"?

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Re: suggestion for package server

[Frank Lichtenheld]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 12:56:21PM +0200, Arjan van Schijndel wrote:
> This can be found most of the time at the original website of the
> package. Large known packages are easy to find with my friend google,
> but sometimes not. And then it is handy to have the URL at hand on the
> development page.
> 
> So is this possible, and will it be implemented soon.

Both packages.debian.org and packages.qa.debian.org already allow the
maintainer to add an URL to the package's homepage (packages.d.o through
the package's description and packages.qa.d.o through the email
interface). It's the descision of each maintainer if he wants to
add something like that, though.

Gruesse,
-- 
Frank Lichtenheld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
www: http://www.djpig.de/


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Re: Suggestion

[Frank Lichtenheld]

On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 09:02:17PM +0100, adsads asdads wrote:
> Hi, how about offering links to testing/unstable at www.debian.org?
> 
> I prefer to manually search for packages sometimes, and thus must also
> rely on a search engine like google.
> 
> While it is very easy to find at least one package, like in a stable
> distribution, i have a hard time at times to find a "replacement"
> for testing / unstable etc..
> Maybe there is no package for testing / unstable, which you could report
> dynamically via php and maybe xml.

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean. Can you try to elaborate
a bit? What do you mean by "replacement"? And why do find it more easy
to find packages for stable then for testing/unstable when there is only
one search engine?

Gruesse,
-- 
Frank Lichtenheld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
www: http://www.djpig.de/

Re: Suggestion (debian wiki)

[Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader]

* Pedro M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-02-21 00:42]:
> I suggest include in www.debian.org MainPage a link to the Debian
> Wiki http://wiki.debian.net/

I'm forwarding your suggestion to our web team.  Linking to wiki.d.net
is certainly a good idea, even if probably not from the main page
itself.  There might be a link already, but I'm not sure.  I hope a
webmaster will respond.
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Suggestion for To-Do List Page

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mer 14/01/2004 à 18:08, Alexander Winston a écrit :

> > Is it meant to become a part of the project at some time?
> 
> Yes, it seems to play a key role in the project. Quoting the author of
> the page, Erich Schubert (I hope that he doesn't mind):

It's been added to the list, it will show up on the next mirror pulse.
-- 
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: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Suggestion for To-Do List Page

[Alexander Winston]

On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 08:34, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lun 12/01/2004 à 20:38, Alexander Winston a écrit :
> > Currently, on , we have a list of
> > things to be done that users and developers can work on, though some are
> > fairly limited to developers. I propose adding
> >  and especially
> >  as
> > things that can be assisted with by ordinary users or folks that do not
> > have official Debian developer status yet.
> 
> Is it meant to become a part of the project at some time?

Yes, it seems to play a key role in the project. Quoting the author of
the page, Erich Schubert (I hope that he doesn't mind):

"The data [from the Web site] is stored in a MySQL Database and exported
once a day to a
plaintext file that can be read by debtags, tagcoll and
synatics-debtags.

"The information should be stored in the package files, but the package
browser is a prototype right now.
Please check the deb-usability project at alioth, all information is
collected there (especially do check the mailing list archives)

"We need people interested in doing a proper tag hierarchy and policies
for starting the real tagging work (which could then be included in the
package files), but this needs a lot of time. (See the mails to the
mailing list for references to the trove and demram hierarchies)"


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Re: Suggestion for To-Do List Page

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lun 12/01/2004 à 20:38, Alexander Winston a écrit :
> Currently, on , we have a list of
> things to be done that users and developers can work on, though some are
> fairly limited to developers. I propose adding
>  and especially
>  as
> things that can be assisted with by ordinary users or folks that do not
> have official Debian developer status yet.

Is it meant to become a part of the project at some time?
-- 
 .''`.   Josselin Mouette/\./\
: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Suggestion for To-Do List Page

[Alexander Winston]

On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 10:43, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> * Alexander Winston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-01-12 17:38]:
> > On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 14:38, Alexander Winston wrote:
> >> Currently, on , we have a list of
> >> things to be done that users and developers can work on, though some are
> >> fairly limited to developers. I propose adding
> >>  and especially
> >>  as
> >> things that can be assisted with by ordinary users or folks that do not
> >> have official Debian developer status yet.
> > 
> > On second thought, should I file this in the BTS instead?
> 
>  I guess it would rather speed it up if you can provide the .wml file
> to put into webwml/english/devel/todo/items/ best. See the other files
> in there[1] as a reference.
> 
>  So long,
> Alfie
> [1] 

What kind of priority should it have?


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Re: Suggestion for To-Do List Page

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Alexander Winston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-01-12 17:38]:
> On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 14:38, Alexander Winston wrote:
>> Currently, on , we have a list of
>> things to be done that users and developers can work on, though some are
>> fairly limited to developers. I propose adding
>>  and especially
>>  as
>> things that can be assisted with by ordinary users or folks that do not
>> have official Debian developer status yet.
> 
> On second thought, should I file this in the BTS instead?

 I guess it would rather speed it up if you can provide the .wml file
to put into webwml/english/devel/todo/items/ best. See the other files
in there[1] as a reference.

 So long,
Alfie
[1] 
-- 
Jeder hat seine Weise, sagt man. Aber man wundert sich weniger, daß
man nicht die fremde, als daß der andere nicht die unsrige hat.
-- Jean Paul


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Re: Suggestion for To-Do List Page

[Alexander Winston]

On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 14:38, Alexander Winston wrote:
> Currently, on , we have a list of
> things to be done that users and developers can work on, though some are
> fairly limited to developers. I propose adding
>  and especially
>  as
> things that can be assisted with by ordinary users or folks that do not
> have official Debian developer status yet.

On second thought, should I file this in the BTS instead?


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Re: suggestion to update

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* giuseppe bonacci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-11-26 11:05]:
> http://www.debian.org/ states that
> 'The latest stable release of Debian is 3.0r1.'
> 
> But the very same page also reports
> 'News: [21 Nov 2003] Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 updated (r2)'

 Yes, unfortunately the CVS for our webpage is after the compromise
still down, and hand editing the pages is very error prone (which can be
seen on the initial page for languages != english or german :/).

 So please be a bit more patient.
Alfie
-- 
The trouble with you
Is the trouble with me.
Got two good eyes
But we still don't see.   -- Robert Hunter, "Workingman's Dead"


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Re: Suggestion for ports page.

[Josip Rodin]

On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 02:56:54AM -0600, Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> The ports page at:
> 
>http://www.debian.org/ports/
> 
> lists the "SuperH" architecture as "a fairly new port".  You may want to
> consider alternate wording for it, as the page that's linked to doesn't
> seem to have been updated in well over a year, and many of the links
> from that page to the port are dead.

Arguably it's fairly new from our perspective, because they haven't managed
to build the whole of Debian yet :) But yeah, it should be changed, thanks.

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: Suggestion for http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

[David Martínez Moreno]

On Sáb 28 Sep 2002 01:07, Joey Hess wrote:
> Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> > why not decribed technical differences in 1 or 2 sentences?
> > If there are none I don't understand why there are still two of them.
>
> The only reasons bug still exists are:
>
> 1. More minimal requirements as it does not need python and is
>porportedly faster. Less and less of an issue every day as more and
>more people have python installed anyway and cpu speeds increase (I
>use reportbug on my 486 anyway).
> 2. Inertia.
> 3. Because its (MIA[1]) maintainer will not see the light that having two
> bug reporting tools is more confusing than it could possibly be worth. 4.
> Because we cannot seem to work together as a project to make
>reasonable decisions for our users on points which really Don't Matter.
>Sigh.
>
> None of these are reasons to confuse neophyte bug reporters who are
> looking for some comprehensible instructions for filing a bug report on
> the web site. Except 4 anyway. By contrast, by encoraging all of our
> users to use reportbug, we can get more, better bug reports by:
>
> 1. Not confusing or offputting them; loweing their time outlay.
> 2. Making sure they use an appropriate severity, something reportbug is
>rather more advanced in.
> 3. Helping them find existing packages before filing their bug report.
> 4. Helping the user set useful tags.
> 5. Dumping debconf information, other data gathering.

Then I strongly vote for preferring reportbug over bug in the bug 
reporting 
page. If Nicolás is MIA, is not our issue. reportbug is far more friendly and 
full of features. Period.

> See bug #56804 for a laugh.

:-D


Ender.
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Re: Suggestion for http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

[Joey Hess]

Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> why not decribed technical differences in 1 or 2 sentences?
> If there are none I don't understand why there are still two of them.

The only reasons bug still exists are:

1. More minimal requirements as it does not need python and is
   porportedly faster. Less and less of an issue every day as more and
   more people have python installed anyway and cpu speeds increase (I
   use reportbug on my 486 anyway).
2. Inertia.
3. Because its (MIA[1]) maintainer will not see the light that having two bug
   reporting tools is more confusing than it could possibly be worth.
4. Because we cannot seem to work together as a project to make
   reasonable decisions for our users on points which really Don't Matter.
   Sigh.

None of these are reasons to confuse neophyte bug reporters who are
looking for some comprehensible instructions for filing a bug report on
the web site. Except 4 anyway. By contrast, by encoraging all of our
users to use reportbug, we can get more, better bug reports by:

1. Not confusing or offputting them; loweing their time outlay.
2. Making sure they use an appropriate severity, something reportbug is
   rather more advanced in.
3. Helping them find existing packages before filing their bug report.
4. Helping the user set useful tags.
5. Dumping debconf information, other data gathering.

See bug #56804 for a laugh.

-- 
see shy jo

[1] Last upload: feb 2001. Number of NMUs: 2. Number of important bugs: 4
Number of normal bugs: pages and pages.


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Re: Suggestion for http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

[Jan-Oliver Wagner]

On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 03:34:29PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 03:17:24PM +0200, Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> > on page http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
> > there is a para
> > 
> > "There are two programs that we have developed in Debian to help
> > reporting bug reports, they're called bug and reportbug. Both of
> > them will guide you through the bug reporting process step by step,
> > and probably ease filing bugs that way."
> > 
> > This leaves the reading with a big question mark on which are the
> > differences of the two alternatives. The para reads like
> > "Take A or B." with now further help (the two links don't really help).
> 
> We didn't want to take sides -- both programs work fine...

why not decribed technical differences in 1 or 2 sentences?
If there are none I don't understand why there are still two of them.

Best

Jan
-- 
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Intevation GmbH  http://intevation.de/
FreeGIShttp://freegis.org/

Re: Suggestion for http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

[Josip Rodin]

On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 03:17:24PM +0200, Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> on page http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
> there is a para
> 
>   "There are two programs that we have developed in Debian to help
>   reporting bug reports, they're called bug and reportbug. Both of
>   them will guide you through the bug reporting process step by step,
>   and probably ease filing bugs that way."
> 
> This leaves the reading with a big question mark on which are the
> differences of the two alternatives. The para reads like
> "Take A or B." with now further help (the two links don't really help).

We didn't want to take sides -- both programs work fine...

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: Suggestion: Cleaning up the front page

[James A. Treacy]

On Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 01:52:06PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote:
> peter karlsson wrote:
> > * Moving the Debian Weekly News stuff up to where the other news items are
> >   listed.
> 
> Hm, my name is still on the main page, isn't it?
> 
Feel free to change portions of the web page relating to what you work on.
I'd like to foster an open development model to the web pages. As usual,
this means you should ask before making substantial changes, but little
things like this should just be done followed by a note to debian-www
noting the change.

> I really think that's showing undue favoratism towards a developer, to make
> this Joey Hess person be the only developer who rates mention on the main
> debian web page, and I really want to remove it. I also feel it's hyping DWN
> just a little too much. I suggest the following change to the page:
> 
>   Joey Hess' Debian Weekly News is a supreme summary of what's happened in
>   the world of Debian.
> 
>   Debian Weekly News is an in-depth summary of what's happening in the world 
> of
>   Debian.
> 
Darren and I agree with this 100%. This has been our policy in the past (no
favoritism to individuals) and we'd like to keep this up.

-- 
James (Jay) Treacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Suggestion: Cleaning up the front page

[Joey Hess]

peter karlsson wrote:
> * Moving the Debian Weekly News stuff up to where the other news items are
>   listed.

Hm, my name is still on the main page, isn't it?

I really think that's showing undue favoratism towards a developer, to make
this Joey Hess person be the only developer who rates mention on the main
debian web page, and I really want to remove it. I also feel it's hyping DWN
just a little too much. I suggest the following change to the page:

  Joey Hess' Debian Weekly News is a supreme summary of what's happened in
  the world of Debian.

  Debian Weekly News is an in-depth summary of what's happening in the world of
  Debian.

-- 
see shy jo

Re: Suggestion: Cleaning up the front page

[peter karlsson]

peter karlsson:

> I'll wait for some more comments, and for tonights update to run before I
> commit the changes.

Okay, no comments (okay, the day is still early over in the US). I commited
it anyway :-)

-- 
\\//
peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/

Re: Suggestion: Cleaning up the front page

[peter karlsson]

Darren O. Benham:

> Go for it... cleaning up is something we have to do periodicly and you work 
> looks pretty good.  There is one or two points of wording that
> I saw.. but that can be cleared up AFTER the new page is installed.  I
> don't want to hold up the cleaned up page in a debate of minutia

I'll wait for some more comments, and for tonights update to run before I
commit the changes. That'll give you a bit more time to clean up the mess
before the next update.

The pages affected by this are:

 * index.wml
 * intro/about.wml
 * releases/index.wml

-- 
\\//
peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/

Re: Suggestion: Cleaning up the front page

[Darren O. Benham]

Go for it... cleaning up is something we have to do periodicly and you work 
looks pretty good.  There is one or two points of wording that
I saw.. but that can be cleared up AFTER the new page is installed.  I
don't want to hold up the cleaned up page in a debate of minutia

On Sat, Oct 23, 1999 at 04:29:19PM +0200, peter karlsson wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Does anyone here ever look at the front page for Debian? Ever noticed that
> it is a bit crowded? I just did.
> 
> So, I thought it could be a good time to clean it up a bit:
> 
> * Move away some of the introduction, and just point to the intro/about
>   page (which states much of the same things, just a bit outdated, since
>   no-one seems to remember that that page exists).
> 
> * Removing some unnecessarily large headlines.
> 
> * Moving the Debian Weekly News stuff up to where the other news items are
>   listed.
> 
> * Moving the "old versions of Debian" link out to the /releases/ page.
> 
> 
> Since people seem to like action more than words, I've implemented the
> changes to the main page. You can see my suggestion at the URL
> http://www.softwolves.pp.se/tmp/debian.html
> 
> Please comment.
> 
> -- 
> \\//
> peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/
> 
> 
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Re: Suggestion: Man Pages on Web & Install Disks

[Adam Di Carlo]

Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Goswin Brederlow wrote:
> > Ken Hendrickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > Suggestions for Improvement:
> > > 
> > >* Put complete man pages for every package on www.Debian.org.
> > > o (Note that OpenBSD does this.)
> > >* Put complete /usr/doc and /usr/info documentation for every package
> > >  on www.Debian.org, with the appropriate HTML cgi readers.
> 
> Can you consider this?  Should be possible in connection with packages.
> debian.org, or not?

Hmmm I don't think it's a bad idea, but I don't see why we could
just have a separate docs.debian.org for this, perhaps using dwww or
dhelp.  Delegate this out to someone who can keep a stable box going.
That way it's not a ton and ton of work for webmasters.  I don't see
why we would also need a commitment to serve up unstable docs as well.

-- 
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Re: Suggestion: Man Pages on Web & Install Disks

[Martin Schulze]

Goswin Brederlow wrote:
> Ken Hendrickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Suggestions for Improvement:
> > 
> >* Put complete man pages for every package on www.Debian.org.
> > o (Note that OpenBSD does this.)
> >* Put complete /usr/doc and /usr/info documentation for every package
> >  on www.Debian.org, with the appropriate HTML cgi readers.

Can you consider this?  Should be possible in connection with packages.
debian.org, or not?

Regards,

Joey

-- 
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Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Re: Suggestion: event pages

[peter karlsson]

> With out any individual event summary.

No, I thought that one should make it as it is now, but also making the
"1999 Events" and so links to their pages. Might not be really necessary
since, as was pointed out, the 2000 page doesn't contain anything that isn't
on the main page. I just thought that it would be nice to have a link to it.

Not a big deal really, just an idea.

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Re: Suggestion: event pages

[Darren O. Benham]

On Sun, Aug 01, 1999 at 05:48:46AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jul 1999, peter karlsson wrote:
> > On the event pages, it would be a good idea if the main "Events in "
> > would be links to the year indices. As of now, the index for 2000 is not
> > linked at all, since there are no past events for 2000 (obviously).
> 
> I'm not exactly sure I understand what you're talking about.  Do you mean
> having the Events page consist of:
> 
> The general paragraph introduction.
> 
> Link: Events in 2000
> Link: Events in 1999
> Link: Events in 1998
> 
> With out any individual event summary.
I think he meant with individual event summaries... what I don't understand
is why.. there's nothing on 2000/index that isn't on events/index..

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Re: Suggestion: event pages

[blackie]

On Wed, 28 Jul 1999, peter karlsson wrote:

> On the event pages, it would be a good idea if the main "Events in "
> would be links to the year indices. As of now, the index for 2000 is not
> linked at all, since there are no past events for 2000 (obviously).

I'm not exactly sure I understand what you're talking about.  Do you mean
having the Events page consist of:

The general paragraph introduction.

Link: Events in 2000
Link: Events in 1999
Link: Events in 1998

With out any individual event summary.

I've thought about this.  What prevents me from doing it is that According
to the feedback I get from each booth manager things need to be planned at
least 6 months in advance.  Therefore I am hesitant from hiding anything
that happens in the future.  More people see it and more people think
about becoming involved.

This problem has vexed me since I started adding events for 2000.