Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Mark vs Hold vs Delete
Statistically speaking it's a very accurate generalization and I see little reason to ignore such things based on what might be more politically correct. Please show me the IT-industry-wide statistics that show that your profiled user is the _only_ notable recipient of spam (as this was the _only_ supposed profile you mentioned). I'm sure that our male-dominated financial clients that do business in South and Latin America, for one of many examples, would be delighted to find that their business connections _never_ use spam-friendly ISPs to send legitimate mail, including some governments. And our manufacturing clients, where men overwhelmingly set policy, would also be happy to find that their inability to give any weight to basic EHLO and PTR errors because their critical business partners are rampantly misconfigured would be pleasantly counterbalanced if they just replaced all of the 40+ female employees drawing in all that spam. And--I almost forgot!--the porn floods that testosterone-soaked trading desks and mailrooms mysteriously receive must be getting rerouted...better open a support ticket for that one. As a result of this women, and especially women over the age of 30 represent a disporportionally large number of the accounts that receive over 100 spams a day. Is it 30, or is it 40? Is it the age at which ageism is, federally recognized (the latter), or is that not actually sound? Does your figure actually hold up after controlling for class, age, race, gender, industry, job title, personal/business primary use, et al.? Can you possibly have a valid sample? I doubt it. You can classify this in many different ways and get many different answers. You can indeed. Seems you chose the one that was most juicy for a male-dominated space. Let me get this straight, you didn't like my association of a particular demographic with spam, but you feel that it is appropriate to then classify young men as what created the Internet bubble? No, I specifically said that they blew hot air into the bubble. To attempt to say that young entrepreneurs were not the technical idea men behind the bubble is to rewrite history. I was there on the inside of eight or nine such nightmares and know so intimately. ...the young Internet entrepreneurs were just patsies in the game... ROFLOL. You might have prospered and lived to gloat about it, but you never worked in a dotcom, clearly (or not in more than one lucky exception). Hey, yeah, without the VCs and IBs, it couldn't have been what it was, but if you think that kewl and the accompanying upselling of utter non-implementable nonsense were the work of patsies, come on. It took two to tango. Whatever, everyone has their grudges. But targeting a distinctly disempowered demographic is infinitely more dangerous than laying into young, educated men. The last thing IT communities need is more sexism. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.mailmage.com/download/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/Release/ --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Mark vs Hold vs Delete
First, if you read my original post, I used two examples to show how spam patterns can be very different based on the type of domain not knowing what sort of traffic Goran was seeing and how he might modify his approach. Do you mean where you say-- Domains used exclusively for business and don't have much legit advertising or newsletters being sent are incredibly easy to manage --? The reason that profile didn't provoke comment one way or the other is that it's basically tautological. What you're saying is that a domain that doesn't get too much legit envelope-only mail doesn't get too many FPs on envelope-only mail. That may be informative to someone who knows little about SMTP, but it doesn't need valid statistics to prove it. (Shades of when someone asked on the IMail Forum, Can I safely disable envelope-only sending? I think it's realy helpful? Sure, if your users know what that will mean, it'll score a knockout.) On the other hand, a _human_ demographic without a valid sample is a very different type of claim. Eschewing comment on the company profile to point out the biases of the human profile shouldn't be surprising, since I sympathize more with humans than with companies. [zombie spam] is gender and age biased in terms of content because illegal products sold and illegal marketing is often performed, and pills and sex are highly targeted at the male demographic. Yes, a disproportionate amount of spam that has an explicit gender target (say, a pharmaceutical product to be applied to or ingested by men, or porn to be consumed by men of any orientation) targets men. This is not only because spammers (a) _assume_ a significant positive reception of these items by male readers, but also (b) because the products and services offered already existed in disproportionate quantity in the physical world (and, of course, the two factors now fertilize each other in the marketplace). There's also an _implicit_ gendering of other types of spam in the other direction; a social scientist would say that there is no product marketing that is not gendered. But this is essentially off-topic: again, I doubt you will find that the age and gender grouping you mention achieves a _preeminence_ (say, a supermajority) in a valid sample of (American?) e-mail users that explains its being used as the sole human profile in your tutorial. http://www.informationweek.com/703/03sskno.htm Good coverage! But I don't see working for a hundred-year-old company as comparable to working for a start-up during the bubble; I guess if that advances your side of the bubble argument, I'm not feeling it. I never said or meant to imply that you didn't have bricks-and-mortar experience. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.mailmage.com/download/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/Release/ --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Mark vs Hold vs Delete
Sandy, I thought you were an east-coaster...you should get some sleep! grin Darin. - Original Message - From: Sanford Whiteman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 3:43 AM Subject: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Mark vs Hold vs Delete First, if you read my original post, I used two examples to show how spam patterns can be very different based on the type of domain not knowing what sort of traffic Goran was seeing and how he might modify his approach. Do you mean where you say-- Domains used exclusively for business and don't have much legit advertising or newsletters being sent are incredibly easy to manage --? The reason that profile didn't provoke comment one way or the other is that it's basically tautological. What you're saying is that a domain that doesn't get too much legit envelope-only mail doesn't get too many FPs on envelope-only mail. That may be informative to someone who knows little about SMTP, but it doesn't need valid statistics to prove it. (Shades of when someone asked on the IMail Forum, Can I safely disable envelope-only sending? I think it's realy helpful? Sure, if your users know what that will mean, it'll score a knockout.) On the other hand, a _human_ demographic without a valid sample is a very different type of claim. Eschewing comment on the company profile to point out the biases of the human profile shouldn't be surprising, since I sympathize more with humans than with companies. [zombie spam] is gender and age biased in terms of content because illegal products sold and illegal marketing is often performed, and pills and sex are highly targeted at the male demographic. Yes, a disproportionate amount of spam that has an explicit gender target (say, a pharmaceutical product to be applied to or ingested by men, or porn to be consumed by men of any orientation) targets men. This is not only because spammers (a) _assume_ a significant positive reception of these items by male readers, but also (b) because the products and services offered already existed in disproportionate quantity in the physical world (and, of course, the two factors now fertilize each other in the marketplace). There's also an _implicit_ gendering of other types of spam in the other direction; a social scientist would say that there is no product marketing that is not gendered. But this is essentially off-topic: again, I doubt you will find that the age and gender grouping you mention achieves a _preeminence_ (say, a supermajority) in a valid sample of (American?) e-mail users that explains its being used as the sole human profile in your tutorial. http://www.informationweek.com/703/03sskno.htm Good coverage! But I don't see working for a hundred-year-old company as comparable to working for a start-up during the bubble; I guess if that advances your side of the bubble argument, I'm not feeling it. I never said or meant to imply that you didn't have bricks-and-mortar experience. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.mailmage.com/download/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/Release/ --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Mark vs Hold vs Delete
A domain with a lot of 40+ year old women that love deal sites, newsletters, greeting cards and ecommerce though can be a huge headache... Is it necessary to use such a sexist and ageist profile? And is this _really_ the only notable demographic giving you a disproportionate support headache? And, finally, let's not forget what a wonderful job some young bucks did blowing hot air into the bubble--with ideas that only the Internet Generation could understand. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.mailmage.com/download/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/Release/ --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
