Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
Hello, A point I forgot in my previous email: * The web client should support i18n (but you already took care of this). Best wishes, d. ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
On 2/7/07, Frederic Lehobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] Than you can already change and correct the tag (existing feature). [...] Then you remove such a confusing tag from the questions already carrying it (no need to delete the tag). Yes, i see that what i realy need to do is correct a design issue in the client. Currently when you browse for questions you are presented with a list of all tags (even if no question is using them)q And the procedure to introduce a new tag is to first add it to the list of tags (and then you can later use it on a question) - this has the consequence that allthough you could hide unused tags when browsing they need to be shown when tagging questions. I should at least hide unused tags while browsing, but if new tags are inroduced when tagging questions instead of in a contextless void, then unused tags can be hided also when tagging. (and there could be a small button or something to show all tags if needed) So i guess everything is in order here (appart from the fact that it is not implemented ^^) ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
Hi, On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 03:00:55PM +0100, ketty wrote: > On 2/7/07, Frederic Lehobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I am not sure I see what you mean. (Hide tags? What for? Mmmm. For the > >interface, maybe... but it could be a different mechanism specific to > >the client.) > > Let's say you make a typo when you add a new tag. Or you add a tag and Than you can already change and correct the tag (existing feature). > it later becomes apparent that it was actually a quite confusing and > not very usefull tag. Then you remove such a confusing tag from the questions already carrying it (no need to delete the tag). Best regards, Frédéric ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
On 2/7/07, Frederic Lehobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am not sure I see what you mean. (Hide tags? What for? Mmmm. For the interface, maybe... but it could be a different mechanism specific to the client.) Let's say you make a typo when you add a new tag. Or you add a tag and it later becomes apparent that it was actually a quite confusing and not very usefull tag. ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
Hi, On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 02:24:53PM +0100, ketty wrote: > On 2/7/07, Frederic Lehobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Well, it is somewhat a feature. We have not designed nor implemented > >ways to hide or rewrite history. :-) > > I'm thinking of it more like a way to specify that something is > obsolete. Data needent actually be deleted (it might be kept (but not > normaly shown) on server, or it might be moved to an archive server or > something). > I guess this is what the hidden attribute on questions is for? I would Yes, precisely. :) (It is not really deeply 'hidden'.) > like to have a hidden attribute for tags also in that case :) I am not sure I see what you mean. (Hide tags? What for? Mmmm. For the interface, maybe... but it could be a different mechanism specific to the client.) > And if obsolete information is to be archived (and freeing up space on > main server) there need to also be a way to really delete information. I am eager to see the time when we will really need this (if we ever will). :) Best regards, Frédéric ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
On 2/7/07, Frederic Lehobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well, it is somewhat a feature. We have not designed nor implemented ways to hide or rewrite history. :-) I'm thinking of it more like a way to specify that something is obsolete. Data needent actually be deleted (it might be kept (but not normaly shown) on server, or it might be moved to an archive server or something). I guess this is what the hidden attribute on questions is for? I would like to have a hidden attribute for tags also in that case :) And if obsolete information is to be archived (and freeing up space on main server) there need to also be a way to really delete information. ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
Hi, On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 01:44:57PM +0100, ketty wrote: > Hi, thank you for your many comments, i have lots to think about ^^ Thanks for your efforts. > >> • Deletion of questions (and tags..)? > > > >Same as above, the questions and tags cannot be removed (questions can > >only be hidden). > > > >Tags can be renamed however. > > Is there a technical problem, or is it just that no one has considered > it necesary? Well, it is somewhat a feature. We have not designed nor implemented ways to hide or rewrite history. :-) Best regards, Frédéric ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
Hi, thank you for your many comments, i have lots to think about ^^ Ability to go to a given question, to have an URL specific to a question or a vote on question (like demexp:// URLs for the hard client). Ability to use the basic tag hierarchy. Allready ready implemented (although somewhat bulky). > • persistent user data You mean, things like the saving of voted and seen questions? This is needed. Yes. > • persistent meta data ?? I haven't understood. I am thinking about things like references to forums and other pages. Just like the url that is currently associated with each answer alternative, but it should not be limited to the creator of the question (other people should be able to add links at a later stage), and links could also be general to a question (not tied to a particular answer)... Such things could be implemented in a eneral way in the server, but if they are not it will need to be handled in an ad-hoc fashon in the client. > • improve usability Yes. Should work *without* Javascript (even if Javascript can obviously be used to *enhance* user interface). Yes it currently uses javascript but does not make extensive use of it (it usualy reloads the page on every click). Since we probably will have a version using javascript in either case we should probably make it work in a more ajax-like way (and of course have a clean javascript-less version too) * Should work with Apache over SSL (a no brainer for all OCaml's web framework); It allready worked last time i tested. * Code should be commented in a literate style. ;-) This is the hard part :) > • Modification of allready running questions? Wanted not wanted? I > think i would be usefull as long as its easy to notify old voters. I haven't understood: what do you want to modify exactly? If this is the question title, this is currently impossible without modifying deeply the code. The most usefull part would be adding and removing alternatives. (Of course there are problems that needs to be addressed in each case, but i think it would be worth it) > • Deletion of questions (and tags..)? Same as above, the questions and tags cannot be removed (questions can only be hidden). Tags can be renamed however. Is there a technical problem, or is it just that no one has considered it necesary? ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
Hello Ketty, I agree with Félix comments: the web client is heartly desired and should structure your proposal around it. BTW, you should read the FAQ before writing your proposal: http://osp2007.janestcapital.com/faqs ketty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Webclient > • make layout separate from content. (css etc) Obviously. Basic separation is needed. No need right now for sophisticated theming technology. > • compare implementations using different web technologies (ocsigen, > plain ocamlnet, more?) And Gerd's WDialog, even if I'm not fond of it. Ocsigen seems the most interesting web framework on the paper. See also : http://demexp.org/en/doku.php?id=web_client_development_framework#comparison_of_ocaml_frameworks Comparison should be quickly done and not be the main goal of the project. > • implement delegation (this needs the server to implement it first > ^^) I'm taking care of the server side (well, one day ;-). Having it on the client side would be great. > • basic filtering (posibly with help of special server) Ability to go to a given question, to have an URL specific to a question or a vote on question (like demexp:// URLs for the hard client). Ability to use the basic tag hierarchy. > • persistent user data You mean, things like the saving of voted and seen questions? This is needed. > • persistent meta data ?? I haven't understood. > • improve usability Yes. Should work *without* Javascript (even if Javascript can obviously be used to *enhance* user interface). > • various missing features (like no support for setting date limit > when creating question) Yes, ability of limit date could be useful. I don't thing this is a very difficult point. Other points: * Should work with Apache over SSL (a no brainer for all OCaml's web framework); * Preferably, no need for SQL database. We can extend the server to store information if needed. Maybe for some transient cross-page information, a small daemon would be needed (Gerd is using a Unix daemon with RPC for this); * Should be compilable into native code; * Code should be commented in a literate style. ;-) > Server > • support for multiple voting algorithms (i dont know how easy this > would be for me, but it is very important for aktivdemokrati.se so if > no one else is gonna look at it i will have to do it eventually...) I don't think supporting several voting algorithms would be an issue. The main issue is to define a clean network protocol and extend the XML file format accordingly. > Open questions > • Modification of allready running questions? Wanted not wanted? I > think i would be usefull as long as its easy to notify old voters. I haven't understood: what do you want to modify exactly? If this is the question title, this is currently impossible without modifying deeply the code. > • Deletion of questions (and tags..)? Same as above, the questions and tags cannot be removed (questions can only be hidden). Tags can be renamed however. > • Changing date limit of question? (it will be important for > aktivdemokrati.se that this is possible in some form, it is related to > the special voting algorithm thingy) If this is important to you, I have no objection to it. We will certainly need to define the security around that feature (who can change the limit date?). > That looks like a list random somewhat unrelated features to me... I > would like my application to look coherent and not just like a list of > random improve this and that items... (and then i could put everything > i could not make look coherent in an appendix of miscellaneous things > i expect to do on the way ^^) :-) As Félix said, the web client is very important to us, so I would structure your proposal around it. For example, you could propose something like "Writing of a web client for demexp server suitable to the AktivDemokrati.se and Democratic Experience needs". I would then list: * The features imperatively needed (basically features currently available in the hard client); * Optional features (maybe put this part at the end of the document). I would also add (in no particular order): * A very short introduction on the usefullness of such an interface as to help to develop a tool suitable for direct democracy in countries, firms, communities (if a success, it would extend the visibility of OCaml); * Overview of basic design, testing, ... (see FAQ). For the design, you could start from the complete set of tasks a user or admin would need (propose a question, tag it and make it public, browse over questions, vote on a given question). Then you could refine that description into a set of web pages and there underlying logic. You could then propose a set of modules (code architecture) that implement needed web pages and application logic; * The main goal is to have a usable interface with reasonnable speed. No fancy features. No bells and whistles. But a sound ground
Re: [Demexp-dev] 0.5 step closer to OCaml Summer of Code
Hi Ketty! On 2/6/07, ketty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, i have finaly started thinking about my application to the OCaml Summer thingy (about time!). There used to be a page on the demexp wiki with a lots of suggestions and ideas for future improvements but i can't find it anymore, is it gone? There's a wishlist here but some of the wishes are for long-term only or may be obsolete: http://demexp.org/en/doku.php?id=future_wishes http://demexp.org/en/doku.php?id=list_of_next_features • Modification of allready running questions? Wanted not wanted? I think i would be usefull as long as its easy to notify old voters. I do not think that this should be a priority since the number of users is limited, and they probably do not mind at this stage. So I would say "not wanted". ... That looks like a list random somewhat unrelated features to me... I would like my application to look coherent and not just like a list of random improve this and that items... (and then i could put everything i could not make look coherent in an appendix of miscellaneous things i expect to do on the way ^^) What we lack the most at the moment is the web client. Using a web client has a lot of consequences on other items you mention (data persistence etc.). If you look for a something to give coherence to your proposal, I would put the web client aspect at the top of the list and subordinate all other aspects to it (if it makes sense). All the best, Felix ___ Demexp-dev mailing list Demexp-dev@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/demexp-dev
