Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for "Saving Information" icons on Status Bar

[Paulo José]

Hi Christoph, Jaron, all,

On 05-03-2011 19:45, Christoph Noack wrote:

Some weeks ago ... sorry for the long delay :-\

Well, you certainly had good reasons! I myself forgot this threat... >.<


Thank you so much, Paulo. Personally, I think the "Style 1" (upper
right) works best. The main reason is, that the shape of the document is
preserved well - although the icon is so tiny. And, the star seems to
appear quite balanced in this version.


This is my preferred version too. It is the first I did, and it makes 
difficult to create the other ones - so they are not that good.



I first worried about the orange color, because usually yellow is used
for indicating "new". But of course - yellow is (given the constraints)
almost invisible, so orange seems a great compromise.
Exactly. The yeallow was my first try... An unproductive try to be 
clear. :-(



[...]So, if somebody wants to have a look at it - I've created an example by
adding Paulo's icon to a simple status bar image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tLL1kYfD-fNZ8d5wkSzydA?feat=directlink
Oh, it's very cool! :D Just now I'm perceiving the "document symbol" 
could be a bit more darker... Maybe it's just a wrong perception of 
mine, but it looks almost like a "disabled" item. Don't you think that? :-/



Any further thoughts? To me, it's already an improvement - so I'm happy
to export the icons and create an issue for that.

Thank you! I'm very glad to know that! :-D


By the way, I hope everybody noticed the interview with Paulo - I
discovered more or less accidentally :-)
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/04/interview-with-paulo-jose-o-amaro/
It's a actual pleasure for me be in a TDF's interview! :-D. Thank you 
for sharing it to all.



Have a nice Sunday,
~Paulo

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Federal University of São João del-Rei
WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior
Blogger / casatwain.com

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Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Icons

[Paulo José]

Hi all!

I have been away from these discussions, just reading and not 
participating, but here is one more contribution.


http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Toolbar-Mimetype-Icons.svg

These are the Tango-inspired version of the Mimetype icons for toolbar 
usage.  I'd like to know your opinion/criticism/suggestions.. :-)


About size, they are 24px + 2px (1px empty border) = 26px. I don't know 
if it's the only needed size... Can anyone talk more about it? And also, 
are more icons needed?


A great Sunday to you guys,
~Paulo


On 10-02-2011 05:20, Christoph Noack wrote:

Hi Thorsten!

Am Donnerstag, den 10.02.2011, 08:15 +0100 schrieb Thorsten Behrens:

Christoph Noack wrote:

But, here comes the question to a new toto item - Thorsten: Kendy
mentioned yesterday that some icons might be missing. Is it right that
we lack toolbar icons for (e.g.) the File-New-Dropdown? If yes, what
size is required here?


Nope, we have those.

Phew. :-)


According to the Galaxy icon set page, it should be 26x26 - can you
confirm?

http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_galaxy.html


Heh, no friggin' idea - but yeah, that page says: small size (16 x
16 pixel), large size (26 x 26 pixel), high contrast version of all
icons. ;)

More importantly, as prompted by Kendy, the Tango icon set has the
following style guide (excerpt from
http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines - that has
many more info for keeping a homogeneous design):

That's true, and I regularly work with the Tango Icons. The question is,
whether Tango will be "the choice" for us, since it still lacks a lot of
specialized icons (Galaxy works better here). And, if we are sure that
it works well on all platforms ... if yes, then we might go for that
style atm.

And, it can be guessed some the Tango icons (a fraction) will change
soon, since they are currently re-done with a new styling.


Large:   48×48
Medium:  32x32
Small:   22×22 pixels - blow up to 24×24 by adding a 1 pixel
  empty space on all sides
Extra Small: 16×16 pixels

(A RC1 preview download for Mac, with the new icons, is available
here:
http://download.go-oo.org/thb/libreoffice/mac/LibO_3.3.1rc1_MacOS_x86_install_en-US.dmg)

I can join the campaign "I miss a Mac" - so if anybody here (but you
Thorsten, you have to care about other things *g*) has a Mac, it would
be great to see a screenshot - just for fun.


Cheers,

-- Thorsten

Have a nice day!

Christoph




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Re: Issue created fdo#35046 (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?)

[minhsien0330]

Hi Christoph,
Thank you very much :)

Regards,
Minhsien0330

2011/3/6 Christoph Noack 

> Hi again,
>
> okay - it seems that the system choses the wrong icon if the Tango icon
> style is used. For Galaxy (pre-selected on my system) it works just
> fine.
>
> I've created an issue for that:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35046
>
> Thanks for reporting :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Design Team Kick-Off Step 4: Organizing our Work (... causing some work for you *g*)

[Rob Cummings]

I can't edit the wiki on my phone, but I wonder if an issue tracker works
with volunteer groups and designers like this? Tasks or items could be
requested via the tracker and anyone willing/available could pick it up.
Design by committe is tough, and I don't have experience with any other
FLOSS projects, so I may be way off.
On Mar 4, 2011 5:58 PM, "Christoph Noack"  wrote:
> Dear Design Team,
>
> a few days ago, we've presented "us" to the rest of the (LibreOffice)
> world. Now it's time to go to the next step ... organizing our work.
>
> Here and there, I've already noticed some questions with regard to how
> people expect we work, and what we might need to work efficiently and
> effectively. Some examples (as far as I remember):
> * Marc asked how we can be triggered to create artwork, and how we
> make sure that these visual designs are approved.
> * Rainer/Petr had the idea to involve us concerning a behavioral
> question. That's great - but this should be too
> "incidentally" :-)
> * Nik asked for a motif (he already kicked of that effort, but
> anyway) and proposed to highlight long-term contributors to
> better guide the team
> * ...
>
> So, how can we do that? Personally, I'd like you to speak up first. What
> are your experiences until now? What did you learn in other FLOSS
> projects? What do you miss ...
>
> I've created a new wiki page for that - please feel free to add your
> thoughts. I also provided a more extensive introduction and a proposal
> for the text steps along with some roughly guessed times:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed#Introduction
>
> Any further thoughts on that topic? Speak up, please. This is your
> project! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
> PS: And as usual, the Design Team Kick-Off Overview Wiki page
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo

[Rob Cummings]

I tried to edit the wiki on my phone, but it just wasn't working out.
Anyway...

My vote: Right.  I'm not crazy about the extended "f" crossbar or the
right-angle shape the crossbar makes with the "i".  I appreciate the effort
and hope this isn't the end of this conversation.  The logo should change as
the project does. I'm just not convinced this idea is ready for use quite
yet.
On Mar 4, 2011 12:52 PM, "Johannes Bausch" 
wrote:
> Hey,
>
> okay, I've tried to set up a voting page for us, see here:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey/Ligatures
>
> Do you all have
> write access to this page? I am not that experienced with wikis.
>
> @Bernhard: I've shifted the i more to the left. I've also redone the
visual
> kerning for some of the letters; have a look at the scaled-down versions,
it
> "should" look more even now.
>
> @all: It would be great if you voted on the wiki or here on the mailing
> list. Even if you disapprove of this poll it would be great to get some
more
> opinions on this; so far it's only five people who talk about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Joey
>
> PS: I'll be away until Wednesday next week.
>
> 2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippold 
>
>> Hi Joey, all,
>>
>> replying to both of your mails, so please scroll down until the end...
>>
>> Johannes Bausch schrieb:
>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> to gather some more opinions I thought it would be a good idea to have a
>>> poll somewhere else, so I asked people in a forum to cast their vote.
>>> Although I don't know whether this was a good idea (not really
>>> representative, game design forum, so people might be programmers) I
>>> thought
>>> you might be interested in the results:
>>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Poll.png
>>>
>>
>> It's impossible to see the different alternatives, because at my computer
>> the background is nearly black.
>>
>> Ii updated the image with a slightly lighter grey background, so you can
>> see the different alternatives, but keep the white text of the poll
results.
>>
>> Apparently noone likes the
>>> too fancy ligatures. Most people also complained about the logo in
>>> general,
>>> so I tried to explain why this is (and remains, for now) the logo of
LibO.
>>> If you're interested in the comments, too, I'll send you the link.
>>> So... in the next days I'll make some final drafts and put up a voting
>>> page.
>>> If you have some final ideas please tell me.
>>>
>>
>> People seem to like the last alternative (with "f" bow bent towards the
"i"
>> dot) as much as the original.
>>
>> Even if this is far from being representative, I'd like to see a
finalized
>> version of this proposal.
>>
>> Could you improve this by moving the "i" nearer to the "f"? I don't think
>> that equal spacing for the dot between "f" and "i" looks best...
>>
>> Perhaps a combination of your third an my proposal?
>>
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Joey
>>>
>>> 2011/3/2 Johannes Bausch
>>>
>>> Hey Bernhard,

 2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippold

 In your reply to my last mail I understood you in a way that you wanted
 to

> work on a new proposal.
>
> I added a third alternative (which I don't like very much). The logos
 on my
 page are only drafts; if we decide on one of them, I'll spend more time
 on
 it. At the moment I don't have another idea how to deal with the
ligature
 -
 do you? I'd be more than glad to try another one.

>>>
>> Like your poll members I like this proposal best, but it needs some more
>> tweaking (I mentioned above).
>>
>> I don't think that there are so many alternatives to modify the two "f"
and
>> the "i", so I don't have any other reliable alternative in mind.
>>
>>>

 [...]
>

 But what we need to keep in mind: Changes being recognized by the
average

> user / viewer will more likely be postponed until a new major or minor
> version
> than modifications leading "only" to a more balanced, professional and
> consistent visual impression.
>
> +1, I agree.

>>>
>> In my eyes proposals (c) and (d) might fall in the "balanced" category,
>> while (a) and (b) would be more recognizable as modified details.
>>
>> Who has the final word on that?

>>>
>> The SC, but they probably support a decision by the Design Team.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Bernhard
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Nik!

Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 03:33 +1100 schrieb Nik:
> Hi Design!
> 
> 2 more days to go until the "brainstorming" of motif ideas is over and 
> we begin design proposals (on Monday).
> Head over to this page for more information;
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif

I still try to figure out how to catch up with some of the older
tasks ... if I won't manage that (well), I'll simply upload what I have
tomorrow evening (my time).

> On 2/28/2011 10:45 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:
...
> > Am Sonntag, den 27.02.2011, 22:36 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
...
> > http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements.html
> I'm glad to include these on the page, but we should expect that these 
> previous elements will have no significant bearing on the Motif 
> yet-to-be-designed.

> I don't like carrying-over elements just because they have been used, I 
> think it would be better to craft new elements from scratch with clear 
> purpose+intentions+context from the beginning.

True, but I hope that gives an impression what we've used so far - maybe
it is inspiring - maybe not :-) I still like it somehow, since the
show-to-the-upper-right triangle (whether it is varied in size, color,
position) is still a strong link to the Document Symbol. And,
personally, it does have some meaning for me (progress, freedom,
direction, guidance).

See you tomorrow ...

Cheers,
Christoph


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Issue created fdo#35046 (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?)

[Christoph Noack]

Hi again,

okay - it seems that the system choses the wrong icon if the Tango icon
style is used. For Galaxy (pre-selected on my system) it works just
fine.

I've created an issue for that:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35046

Thanks for reporting :-)

Cheers,
Christoph

Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 21:37 +0800 schrieb minhsien0330:
> Hi Christoph,
> I uploaded a "here.png" file to show the "a circle with two birds".
> https://sites.google.com/site/minhsien0330/test/here.png
> 
> Thanks,
> Minhsien0330
> 
> 2011/3/5 Christoph Noack 
> 
> > Hi Minhsien0330 (???),
> >
> > at least my system [1] features the Document Symbol for the
> > Quickstarter. Can you provide some more information, please?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Christoph
> >
> > [1] LibreOffice 3.3.1, OOO330m19 (Build:8)
> > tag libreoffice-3.3.1.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.1-1ubuntu3~lucid2
> >
> >
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for "Saving Information" icons on Status Bar

[Christoph Noack]

Hi all!

Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 18:59 -0200 schrieb Paulo José:
> Hello everybody!
> 
> Some days ago

Some weeks ago ... sorry for the long delay :-\

> , Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already 
> knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the 
> status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document 
> when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be 
> better ways to represent this status.

[...]

> So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this 
> behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version, 
> since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status 
> bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to 
> follow the suggestion of some people.

Thank you so much, Paulo. Personally, I think the "Style 1" (upper
right) works best. The main reason is, that the shape of the document is
preserved well - although the icon is so tiny. And, the star seems to
appear quite balanced in this version.

I first worried about the orange color, because usually yellow is used
for indicating "new". But of course - yellow is (given the constraints)
almost invisible, so orange seems a great compromise.

What else? Mmh, I think the 14x11px version fits better to the overall
style of the status bar. The larger ones seem to be "out of place"
somehow.

So, if somebody wants to have a look at it - I've created an example by
adding Paulo's icon to a simple status bar image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tLL1kYfD-fNZ8d5wkSzydA?feat=directlink

Any further thoughts? To me, it's already an improvement - so I'm happy
to export the icons and create an issue for that.

I'll keep the source ...

> Versions on 16x14px: 
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg
> Versions on 14x11px: 
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg
> 
> I hope it can be useful in some way. :)

By the way, I hope everybody noticed the interview with Paulo - I
discovered more or less accidentally :-)
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/04/interview-with-paulo-jose-o-amaro/

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

[Sébastien Le Ray]

Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:56:45 +,
Daniel Merker  a écrit :

> Hi,
> 
> This is what I meant. The default of LibreOffice should be done like
> this.
> 

Hi,

So you just want to change default values for apps, that's it?

I've he

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RE: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

[Daniel Merker]

Hi,

This is what I meant. The default of LibreOffice should be done like this.



From: Andrew [rugby...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 12:59 PM
To: design@libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 -
Improve default page layout

On 05/03/11 11:44, Sébastien Le Ray wrote:
> Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +,
> Daniel Merker  a écrit :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be
>> the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would
>> have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all
>> sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the
>> same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme
>> and help build on a general motif.
>>
>> -Daniel Merker
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> The background color of the application can already be customized
> through preferences...
>
> regards
>
> Sébastien
>

I like the suggestion of changing the background colour with application
(i.e. blue for writer) and having that with the 'four border' shadow.

Like this - http://ubuntuone.com/p/gEg/


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

[Andrew]

On 05/03/11 11:44, Sébastien Le Ray wrote:
> Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +,
> Daniel Merker  a écrit :
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be
>> the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would
>> have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all
>> sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the
>> same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme
>> and help build on a general motif.
>>
>> -Daniel Merker
>>
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The background color of the application can already be customized
> through preferences...
> 
> regards
> 
> Sébastien
> 

I like the suggestion of changing the background colour with application
(i.e. blue for writer) and having that with the 'four border' shadow.

Like this - http://ubuntuone.com/p/gEg/


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Fwd: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft

[Nik]

Whoops, forgot to reply to Design-list instead of just to Jaron...


 Original Message 
Subject:Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif 
draft
Date:   Sat, 05 Mar 2011 17:32:13 +1100
From:   Nik 
To: Jaron Kuppers 



Hi Jaron,


On 3/5/2011 6:37 AM, Jaron Kuppers wrote:

Hi Nik,

I would love to be involved but unfortunately I still feel that I 
don't fully understand what is desired in the motif (what is the end 
deliverable).  Of course, design is not my main background (mechanical 
engineering is) so hopefully once design proposals go up I can 
contribute.  I look forward to seeing motif's!


Cheers,
Jaron


Sorry if I've been unclear about what the Motif-Design task entails.
I think I've done a better job explaining it on the wiki 
(http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif) than I have on this list.


So if anyone else was also wondering what a Motif is, it's basically a 
decorative visual element, usually quite abstract (curves, patterns, 
colour-combinations, shapes, textures, or a combination of all).
It usually gets used as subtle background elements in a Design 
composition, or as recurring content-separators.
This is what Wikipedia thinks it is; 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif_%28visual_arts%29
More to the point, here is what a leading branding agency made when 
decorating a plane;

http://landor.com/index.cfm?do=ourwork.casehistory&cn=6147&source=enews&utm_source=mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_content=wv1&utm_campaign=SuperBowl2011&bhcp=1
(The ribbon that spans the plane is their motif, a very sophisticated 
way of saying "smooth ride" don't you think? =)


Essentially what we're aiming for is to create a pleasant vector graphic 
that is so subtle that it can occupy empty space in an elegant way.
*Sometimes it will be directly behind text so it needs to be 
low-contrast and low on "noise" (not very intricate or busy).*


You have probably seen vector-flowers or inward-curling leaf/vine 
shapes. Here is a typical example;

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/8603944/2/istockphoto_8603944-decorative-swirl-motifs.jpg

While flowers are nice, they don't say very much about Open source 
software right? =)
So our goal is to come up with a "theme", such as "freedom, 
collaboration, or independence" and create an abstract representation of 
that, which we can use as a basis for ... well ... everything!;
posters, banners, web-pages, business cards, CDs/DVDs, your slow-moving 
grandma, whatever really! =)


It is hard to create visual representations of intangible concepts, but 
that is our challenge.
I'll collect and summarise the feedback from the "brainstorming" phase 
tomorrow and present it to this list.

So if you want to add your two cents, feel free to dive in any time.

Hope that makes it a smidgeon more clear for everyone who wasn't too 
sure what I was jabbering on about.
And thanks for bravely piping-up and letting me know I hadn't defined 
the task to a wider audience Jaron!
Right now we need ideas, and once we've gathered some good ones up, we 
can start sketching.


By the way, if you're looking for a simply AWESOME implementation of a 
logo-brand turned into a motif (and everything else), look no further 
than Duffy & Partner's "Bahamas campaign";

http://sublimedesign.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/1273.jpg

Hope that clarifies and inspires =)
-Nik


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?

[minhsien0330]

Hi Christoph,
I uploaded a "here.png" file to show the "a circle with two birds".
https://sites.google.com/site/minhsien0330/test/here.png

Thanks,
Minhsien0330

2011/3/5 Christoph Noack 

> Hi Minhsien0330 (???),
>
> at least my system [1] features the Document Symbol for the
> Quickstarter. Can you provide some more information, please?
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
> [1] LibreOffice 3.3.1, OOO330m19 (Build:8)
> tag libreoffice-3.3.1.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.1-1ubuntu3~lucid2
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?

[minhsien0330]

Hi Christoph,
I attached a "here.png" file to show the "a circle with two birds".

Thanks,
Minhsien0330

2011/3/5 Christoph Noack 

> Hi Minhsien0330 (???),
>
> at least my system [1] features the Document Symbol for the
> Quickstarter. Can you provide some more information, please?
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
> [1] LibreOffice 3.3.1, OOO330m19 (Build:8)
> tag libreoffice-3.3.1.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.1-1ubuntu3~lucid2
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice official color names

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Bernhard,

some quick notes on that as well :-)

Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 00:28 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> Christoph Noack schrieb:
> > Am Mittwoch, den 02.03.2011, 23:00 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
[...]
> >> But I'd prefer "LibreGreen 1" over "Libre Green 1", because without
> >> the space "LibreGreen" is a name, while in "Libre Green" libre can
> >> be understood as descriptive adjective.
> >
> > True, but removing the whitespace makes it less readable ...
> 
> I don't think this is an important issue, as it should be a descriptive 
> name rather than a color accompanied by a leading adjective and a 
> following number.

> But I'm not an UX-expert, so I have to believe you that people will not 
> be able to understand LibreGreen as easy as Libre Green.

>From the UX perspective, it would be most helpful to remove "Libre" and
to provide some information in the UI of the product what kind of color
scheme (here: LibreOffice Branding Colors) are used.


> > http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/united-colors-of-liberty.html
> 
> Looking at these colors, I find out, that I like the previous color 
> names better than the present ones:
> 
> Orange is not really orange - Marron has been more exact.
> 
> Yellow is not yellow at all - Ocher might be the right description.

Personally, I think the more basic ones simpler to handle and to
translate ... but this may only be me.

> >> To be consistent, we should use "LibreGreen Accent" instead of
> >> "Green Accent" - OpenGrok shows the latter.
> >
> > OpenGrok is okay, since I asked for that name when it got integrated
> > ;-)
> 
> But the other colors seems to have been integrated with "Libre" - did 
> you do this on purpose?

No, then it's an issue. It seems that we have to rework this palette ...
thanks for making me aware of that. Since I mostly work with Inkscape at
the moment, I didn't knew that.

> The Inkscape palette I use doesn't contain any "Libre", so they are 
> different.

This is on purpose, since Inkscape provides quicker access to check what
kind of palette the user works with. In LibreOffice (see also the others
mails targeting the work with colors) it is much more problematic.

> But in future all the palettes (LibO, Inkscape, GIMP) will use the same 
> naming... :-)

And the more we talk about that, the more I come to the conclusion that
a fairly simple palette (including the names) might be more appropriate.
It seems that the comments (e.g. "LibreOffice Main Color") are more
important than the "Libre".

So, final proposal: For all of the palettes, the naming scheme will
be...
$BASICCOLOR $TYPE ($COMMENT)

e.g. "Green 1 (LibreOffice Main Color)"
e.g. "Orange 5"
e.g. "Purple Accent"

This can be quickly changed in the "spreadsheet" that served for the
color palette creation:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/7/70/2010-11-08_LibreOffice_Initial-Branding-Colors.zip

And to not forget this - we have to add some comment in the .soc palette
creation there. That time, I didn't knew how to do this ...

And, the grey/gray values are missing at the moment.

[...]

> I've been wondering, if we should add plain colors (red, green, blue, 
> yellow, orange, violet) to the LibO palette too, because they might be 
> used for marking etc. We don't have red at all...
> 
> But on the other hand they don't fit with the LibreOffice colors, so I'd 
> avoid such a mixture.
> 
> What do you think?

If we call it "branding palette", then I second the latter opinion to
keep it "clean". At lest, we have a fabulous "orange accent" for
highlighting things ;-)

> > I'll add the source code at the end of the mail
> > - for easier reference.
> > [...]
> 
> I don't know if a break is allowed in an .soc file, if so, I'd add one 
> behind the first entry: This would lead to better readability, as every 
> definition is shown in it's own line.

No, I'm not aware about such possibility. The color palettes are just a
list of items - without any further structure. That makes it so hard to
define more helpful ones ... so here we need some improvements in
LibreOffice first.

[...]
> While the default UI language is "English (USA)" the standard color 
> palette as well as your proposal use the British English spelling "Gray" 
> instead of "Grey".

Oh, good point!

Finally, it seems that there are some simpler things (like renaming the
gray shadings), removing the Libre in front of the colors, ... that
should be sufficient for answering Andras questions and to improve the
color palette in LibreOffice. The more time consuming things (e.g.
defining the gray values) may be done later - if we miss some help at
the moment. Okay?

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: [Bug 34896] [EasyHack] Color palette: number of columns

[Hillar Liiv]

o me its is easier to good color palette and it's works in every UI element
same way.



2011/3/5 Christoph Noack 

> Hi Hillar,
>
> just a quick reply ... without that much thought ;-)
>
>
> Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 12:16 +0200 schrieb Hillar Liiv:
> > Here is one bug report to change "Color palette: number of columns"
> > everywhere constant (same number colums/row to make creating palettes
> > easier).
> >
> > Which way to go?
> >
> > - change to 8x12
> > - change to 10x11
>
> To ask another question: What problem will be solved with that change?
>
> In the first step, consistency is usually an improvement, so that our
> users are not forced to re-think when using an almost identical control
> element (color palette). But does it ease to create / provide color
> palettes?
>

To me it is easier to make good color palette with constant UI.

Color palettes are created for different purposes, e.g. because the
> company colors are A, B, and C. So - from the user's / company's
> perspective - these guys won't add additional colors to fill the palette
> because one of their tools (amongst others) works that way :-)
>

Thats other issue and I think that there should be to add empty caps.

So my first statement is, that there is a need to reconsider the color
> choosers anyway. Because:
>  * We have additional vertical color selections (list with color
>names, e.g. when selecting a background color via toolbar)
>  * Changing palettes / colors is currently a nightmare
>  * ...
>

We need better way to handle multiple color palette.
Probably something like there:
http://t6uni.deviantart.com/art/OOo-color-palette-mockup-183868039


> Concerning your initial question - I would go for 8x12 if we don't cause
> scrollbars within the usual dialogs when a few additional colors are
> added. My rationale: In the old days of EGA graphics, there have been
> color pallets with 16 colors (or advanced: 64 colors). Even today, many
> of the color palettes start with these basic colors - so they get shown
> in two rows which makes them distinct in the dialog.
>
>
I hope that showing in too rows is not so big problem if they don't mix with
other colors... then 8x12 is better option.

> Bug report is here:
> > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34896
>
> Thanks! Could you please take care to sum up the discussion (if there
> are any more thoughts on that) and add this to the issue?
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice official color names

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Bernhard, all!

Thanks for the answer - and really good thoughts :-)

Am Freitag, den 04.03.2011, 23:37 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> Christoph Noack schrieb:
> > Just some short comments on this issue as well, because I'd like to
> > finally answer Andras question  ... :-)
> 
> Sorry for mixing up two different topics - but I found them related when 
> thinking of official names...

Well, sorry for appearing so "picky", but I thought it would be helpful
to go a first step. The other topic is important as well, of course.

> > Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 04:10 +1100 schrieb Nik:
[...]
> >> On 3/3/2011 9:33 AM, Christoph Noack wrote:
> >>> Am Mittwoch, den 02.03.2011, 23:00 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
[...]
> > Personally, I think we should start to collect such tiny logo issues in
> > the wiki and update all in one "rush" - to save some effort.
> 
> +1

Could somebody please take care of that? I'd do that, but then it gets
added on the high pile of "things to be done later" ;-)

> >> [...]
> >
> > So how about the following logos...
> > "Basic/Plain" (defines basic color and shape)
> >* Derived "contemporary -->  LibreOffice "preferred" logo
> >  (highlighted on the branding page)
> >* Derived "grayscale" (like today)
> >* Derived "black/white" (like today)
> >* Derived "inverted" (like today)
> 
> I'd switch it:
> 
> Main logo: present "contemporary logo"
> 
> Derived "plain colors logo" (dark grey and green)
> Derived "greyscale logo"
> Derived "black logo" (today: black/white)
> Derived "white logo" (today: inverted)
> 
> Derived "green/black logo" (today: basic) for special needs.

Okay, that sounds fine to me ... to me it is still the "contemporary
logo" (which should really get the name "main") derived from the plain
logo. But this may be a personal preference, so if it is kept - that's a
great proposal! Nik, what do you think?

[...]
> But we definitely should provide the spot colors of our color palette, 
> so people know about the colors we want to be used on physical banners 
> and the like.

Yep, and it makes it easier to refer to them in our designs / motif.

> >> From my point-of-view, most of the confusion is created by those people
> > who copy the logo from other locations in the web - and sometimes even
> > modifying them. G.
> 
> Did you already find examples on LibreOffice? (I remember really 
> horrible ones from OOo)

Something like that?
http://ubuntuxx.de/wp-content/themes/ubuntuxx/timthumb.php?src=/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/timpthumb-libre.jpeg&h=120&w=180&zc=1

> Best regards
> 
> Bernhard
> 
> PS: And if we agree on 80% Grey for our logo, I'd propose to give it a 
> LibO name (LibreGrey 1) in our palette.

I would even propose to name some of the others as well - to refer to
them in our designs. How about some counterparts (similar hue) Grey
0 ... Grey 5?

Okay, a short summary:
  * Renaming / restructuring of the logo names like you proposed
  * Adding names to some of the gray/grey shadings to be
counterparts to the "real" colors
  * Switching the black in our plain logo version (and maybe others)
to a dark gray/grey one

Is this correct?

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Minhsien0330 (???),

at least my system [1] features the Document Symbol for the
Quickstarter. Can you provide some more information, please?

Cheers,
Christoph

[1] LibreOffice 3.3.1, OOO330m19 (Build:8)
tag libreoffice-3.3.1.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.1-1ubuntu3~lucid2

Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 08:47 +0800 schrieb minhsien0330:
> Hello,
> Now we have great new MIME icons on LibreOffice 3.3.1, but the quickstarter
> icon on system tray still "a circle with two flying birds".
> "A circle with two flying birds" still looks like Openoffice.org, but not
> LibreOffice.
> Will this old quickstarter tray icon be replaced with new icon?
> (My system: Debian testing + LibO_3.3.1_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz )
> 
> Thanks,
> Minhsien0330


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: [Bug 34896] [EasyHack] Color palette: number of columns

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Hillar,

just a quick reply ... without that much thought ;-)


Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 12:16 +0200 schrieb Hillar Liiv:
> Here is one bug report to change "Color palette: number of columns"
> everywhere constant (same number colums/row to make creating palettes
> easier).
>
> Which way to go?
> 
> - change to 8x12
> - change to 10x11

To ask another question: What problem will be solved with that change?

In the first step, consistency is usually an improvement, so that our
users are not forced to re-think when using an almost identical control
element (color palette). But does it ease to create / provide color
palettes?

Color palettes are created for different purposes, e.g. because the
company colors are A, B, and C. So - from the user's / company's
perspective - these guys won't add additional colors to fill the palette
because one of their tools (amongst others) works that way :-)

So my first statement is, that there is a need to reconsider the color
choosers anyway. Because:
  * We have additional vertical color selections (list with color
names, e.g. when selecting a background color via toolbar)
  * Changing palettes / colors is currently a nightmare
  * ...

Concerning your initial question - I would go for 8x12 if we don't cause
scrollbars within the usual dialogs when a few additional colors are
added. My rationale: In the old days of EGA graphics, there have been
color pallets with 16 colors (or advanced: 64 colors). Even today, many
of the color palettes start with these basic colors - so they get shown
in two rows which makes them distinct in the dialog.

> Bug report is here:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34896

Thanks! Could you please take care to sum up the discussion (if there
are any more thoughts on that) and add this to the issue?

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

[Sébastien Le Ray]

Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +,
Daniel Merker  a écrit :

> Hi,
> 
> Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be
> the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would
> have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all
> sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the
> same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme
> and help build on a general motif.
> 
> -Daniel Merker
> 

Hi,

The background color of the application can already be customized
through preferences...

regards

Sébastien

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

[Sébastien Le Ray]

Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 09:09:44 +0200,
Hillar Liiv  a écrit :

> Hi,
> 
> I have made some mockup to show how different shadows look alike:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Docshadows.png
> Which looks best?

Hi

I definitely don't like the "no blur" shadows... I cannot tell which
one from 4 borders or 2 borders looks best, I guess this is a matter of
personal taste.
One thing to take into account : if we use a large shadow and/or
4 borders shadow, we've to change to behavior of the zoom out to avoid
shadow overlapping (when you zoom out to a little zoom level, pages are
closer from each other than in zoom levels > ~50%), so we either have
to change pages spacing or shadow width when zooming out.


Sébastien

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[libreoffice-design] Fwd: [Bug 34896] [EasyHack] Color palette: number of columns

[Hillar Liiv]

Hi,

Here is one bug report to change "Color palette: number of columns"
everywhere constant (same number colums/row to make creating palettes
easier).

Which way to go?

- change to 8x12
- change to 10x11

Bug report is here:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34896


Hillar

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