[libreoffice-design] File viewer whiteboard
I know that it's long, long overdue, but I finally took the time to do a tentative design for the file viewer. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/File_Viewer#Tentative_Design The background is black to put the focus on the content (as is common for full-screen viewers). The visual design is debatable, though. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Design ethos
Hi all, thanks for picking up this really important discussion. Christoph I think the examples you gave are really great. I think we really should ask ourselves: What is the problem? What do we want to reach? instead of generally argueing for or against the suggested (and obviously proven) approach from Mozilla. I think there have been two possible goals deriving out of this discussion so far: 1. Educate developers in terms of making them aware of the importance of Usability / UX 2. Provide a structure to us designers to produce consitent UIs and workflows. Am I right with these two possible goals? Would you like to add any? Cheers, Björn Am Montag, 11. Juni 2012, 17:55:34 schrieb Mirek M.: Hi Christoph, On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi Mirek, all! Thanks for your quick response! It's already a bit late, but I'd like to answer now - tomorrow, I suppose, my day job will eat up all the given time ;-) Before I start: The more often I read your mail, the more I'm convinced that some of the potential misunderstandings are caused by differences in terminology (read: same terms mean different things to us) and procedure with regard to HMI development. So please allow me to add some more my-point-of-view ... Am Sonntag, den 10.06.2012, 19:53 +0200 schrieb Mirek M.: Hi Christoph, On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com wrote: Hi Björn, hi Mirek! I had to make up my mind concerning this thread and also the article that was originally referred to. So here is what I'm thinking about ... Am Mittwoch, den 06.06.2012, 20:45 +0200 schrieb Björn Balazs: Am Mittwoch, 6. Juni 2012, 19:46:09 schrieb Mirek M.: [...] Developers encountering these keywords likely won't have any additional interface design training, so it is important that each heuristic is very clearly defined with specific examples and detailed explanations. Additionally, allowing developers to view all of the bugs in the software marked as the same type of issue, both current and resolved, serves as an effective way for them to further learn about the heuristic. Therefor I understand these principles as guidelines for developers to become aware of UX, perhaps learn a tiny bit. Opposite I do understand something like the design ethos as rules for us - experienced designers and UX professionals. So, I think the sugested rules are good for teaching developers, but I think this is not what we want to do - ?questionmark? I understand it the same way - and I found another thing a bit strange. The article is called Quantifying Usability although it deals with heuristic evaluations. The aim of those evaluations is usually to detect interaction design issues - but not to let users rate / quantify those issues (having statistically relevant information). So, where is the quantification? In the given case, interaction experts (not users) do tag the issues using their level of experience and (domain) knowledge. So finally, you can generate a nice statistic of known issues within your system - maybe that also helps within the project to address the most important (here: highest number) of issues in advance. But that doesn't solve the issue what it really means if a dialog violates e.g. ux-minimalism - you need to know the users characteristics and their tasks. So for a complex product like LibreOffice (assuming that its okay that it supports a variety of tasks), some users may find a dialog overwhelming whilst other users may miss lots of information. The question is - which main target group will make use of this dialog ... The minimalism principle states that interfaces should be as simple as possible, where simple is meant as not complicated, not as as featureless as possible. That sounds great, indeed. But when designing products one is usually faced to the problem that it's impossible to add (meaningful) features without any increase of the complexity of the product. Although one user group want to have these features (because it boosts their efficiency), other users might find the resulting user interface not simple. So, as Bjoern already pointed out, balancing what's simple and what is not featureless requires a deep understanding of our users' needs. And these needs vary a lot ... depending on their knowledge and their tasks. I've documented a related issue some years ago (Myths about UX): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/Myths_about_UX#Ad vanced_functionality_doesn.27t_hurt_-_newcomers_just_won.27t_use_it.21 As an example,
[libreoffice-design] Are you okay with those new default styles?
Hi everyone, would anyone object against Cedric including this as new default (empty) template: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Avantgarde.ott Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Are you okay with those new default styles?
Hi Alex, Overall: great. I like the coloured accent very much. There are a couple things, though: #1 Would you mind removing the small-caps from the headlines? These aren't font-provided small caps, but forced ones whose proportions differ from what a typographer would provide with a font (i. e. their lines are two thin for the given font size) – long story short, typographers would hate us for doing this in our defaults #2 The difference between Heading 1 and Heading 2 font size is too large – make Heading 2 and 3 larger, please #3 Heading and Heading 1 have some marginal difference in appearance, although it looks like there should be none at all #4 Looking at the distance (kerning) between the a and the d in Heading 1, it seems the DejaVu Light font is not quite ready for primetime, can you revert to normal DejaVu (which looks better)? #5 Heading 4 to 10 should surely have larger font sizes (Heading 6 has a 9pt font size, much smaller than the body text!) #6 Signature uses FreeSans, not DejaVu/Liberation Serif Hope that helps, Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Are you okay with those new default styles?
Hi Sorry to jump in so late, I am a bit scared if I undestand this template as all my new documents will be based on this template. First, the choice of fonts and colors are a matter of taste, which is an endless debate... Second, - I have not tested - LO may warn me that my legacy documents have new default template and ask for an update. If this is true, this will be a shoot in the head of document preservation. Did I get it totally wrong? Please enlight me. regards Olivier 2012/6/12 Alexander Wilms alexander.wi...@zoho.com Hi everyone, would anyone object against Cedric including this as new default (empty) template: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/File:**Avantgarde.otthttp://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Avantgarde.ott Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+help@global.**libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/design/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Olivier Hallot Founder and Steering Commitee Member The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Are you okay with those new default styles?
Hi Olivier, First, the choice of fonts and colors are a matter of taste, which is an endless debate... Sure, yet... staying with Arial and TNR, aping Office 2000 is not really an option either, though. Second, - I have not tested - LO may warn me that my legacy documents have new default template and ask for an update. If this is true, this will be a shoot in the head of document preservation. That's an interesting (theoretical) problem – can you test, please, though? My logic says, this shouldn't happen, also, the styles are usually embedded within the document. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Are you okay with those new default styles?
Hi 2012/6/12 Niklas Johansson sleeping.pil...@gmail.com Stefan Knorr (Astron) skrev 2012-06-12 20:19: Hi Olivier, First, the choice of fonts and colors are a matter of taste, which is an endless debate... Sure, yet... staying with Arial and TNR, aping Office 2000 is not really an option either, though. Second, - I have not tested - LO may warn me that my legacy documents have new default template and ask for an update. If this is true, this will be a shoot in the head of document preservation. That's an interesting (theoretical) problem – can you test, please, though? My logic says, this shouldn't happen, also, the styles are usually embedded within the document. Nothing will happen to our current documents since none of them are based on the Avantgarde.ott template. Though if we want to make any changes to Avantgarde.ott templates later and keep the name and location of the template - then the user will get a question if he/she wants to update the styles. We need to avoid that. Yes that is what I'm thinking... I just didn't know it was restricted to template name and not the default template. Hmm... Interesting, it seems that it does not even have to be in the same location just in one of the installed paths or set as default template. I have no idea what happens if we change one of the built in styles which is the long term goal as I understand it. The only attributes you can change on the built-in styles are in Tools - Options - Writer - Basic fonts. When changing them, all new documents based on the default template will carry the changes. If we offer Avantgarde.ott as one document template (among others), that is ok for me. To offer it as default template is another story. Regards -- Olivier Hallot Founder and Steering Commitee Member The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Are you okay with those new default styles?
Hi everyone, would anyone object against Cedric including this as new default (empty) template: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Avantgarde.ott Alex Hi, I object to the use of serif fonts for default. It's the first thing I change. Is it an American obsession? in Europe, a larger proportion of magazines with typographical insight, use sans serif for body text nowadays. I know all the well trodden but generally evidence sparse arguments for serif body fonts. The argument is at least as much about the aesthetic as it is about the physiological and psychological aspects of readability. In fact, on most screens sans is more readable than serif. I'd happily coexist with the serif-ims, if only they wouldn't always impose their creed on us sans-ites. I suggest we have two equivalent templates (one sans and one serif) and make template choice easier (it's not a great UX at the moment). That way both camps could be satisfied Cheers, Greg -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
