Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
I clearly understand if there is no resource for keeping broken or non-functioning parts of the code then it is better to drop them. I just wanted to emphasize that for many user, such minor and useless things really do count. So, if it is possible then it should be kept. From the technical background, I don't know too much. If the only problem is that the Mozilla Foundation does not maintain the personas repository well or the way is changing how LO could get the content from there then it still would be beneficial to mirror a larger set of personas in an official LibreOffice persona repository, saying that - the original source is Mozilla - more personas can be downloaded from anywhere. Replying the question of Pedro Rosmaninho "Who fixes it?": I am not sure how big the problem is. I don't even know who implemented the persona feature in LO but if _I_ was it and it wouldn't work anymore, I think I would do everything to fix it. Cutting my code out of LO is something I would never let. So, let's ask the original developer if he/she has time and resource to fix it then many LO users would be very grateful. Maybe it still can be saved. :) Csongor On 2018.09.13. 0:49, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: That's a more constructive opinion. Keeping Firefox personas is dumb. But then we could discuss create a new section on LO website besides "Extensions". A section called Personas or Themes for users to add personas there, and rework the personas back-end to fetch personas from there. However, some preinstalled personas would be welcome and maybe make it possible to change personas per module. I would love to see all of this. Is there anyone interested and with the skills to do it though? Go ahead. Otherwise it's simply better to deprecate instead of leaving that to rot. On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 3:37 PM toki wrote: On 2018-09-12 2:00 p.m., Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: It´s nice to vote to keep something in, but when that something is constantly breaking Why is it constantly breaking? Part of it is that it relies on a site operated and controlled by The Mozilla Foundation, using a product there that that organization has depreciated. Once upon a time, persona could be configured to use files on one's system. More specifically it was either /opt/libreoffice.version.number/share/gallery/ or /home/user-name/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery/persona or ~/share/gallery/persona/. Indeed, going into Expert Configuration, it looks like it can still be configured from there. However, like everything else in Expert Configuration, there is no user documentation. Is the "no" next to string, for Persona a boolean value, and if so, why isn't it marked as such. Or is it supposed to be the file? Playing with those values, doesn't enable Persona. Did I use "bad values"? Has the ability to configure it from the expert setting been completely removed? Has something else been broken? I can't tell. and there's minimal dev interest to fix or improve it According to Archive.org, the average lifespan of a webpage is under 18 months. As such, relying on a third party website to provide functionality is incredibly short-sighted. Would any of the people in favor be willing to fix it and improve it? It's as simple as that. Personally, I'd rip out the "Select Firefox Theme", and at ">LibreOffice >Paths" under Type add "Persona", and set path "/home/toki/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery//persona" as the default. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
That's a more constructive opinion. Keeping Firefox personas is dumb. But then we could discuss create a new section on LO website besides "Extensions". A section called Personas or Themes for users to add personas there, and rework the personas back-end to fetch personas from there. However, some preinstalled personas would be welcome and maybe make it possible to change personas per module. I would love to see all of this. Is there anyone interested and with the skills to do it though? Go ahead. Otherwise it's simply better to deprecate instead of leaving that to rot. On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 3:37 PM toki wrote: > On 2018-09-12 2:00 p.m., Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: > > > It´s nice to vote to keep something in, but when that something is > constantly breaking > > Why is it constantly breaking? > > Part of it is that it relies on a site operated and controlled by The > Mozilla Foundation, using a product there that that organization has > depreciated. > > Once upon a time, persona could be configured to use files on one's > system. More specifically it was either > > /opt/libreoffice.version.number/share/gallery/ or > /home/user-name/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery/persona or > ~/share/gallery/persona/. > > Indeed, going into Expert Configuration, it looks like it can still be > configured from there. However, like everything else in Expert > Configuration, there is no user documentation. Is the "no" next to > string, for Persona a boolean value, and if so, why isn't it marked as > such. Or is it supposed to be the file? > > Playing with those values, doesn't enable Persona. Did I use "bad > values"? Has the ability to configure it from the expert setting been > completely removed? Has something else been broken? I can't tell. > > >and there's minimal dev interest to fix or improve it > > According to Archive.org, the average lifespan of a webpage is under 18 > months. As such, relying on a third party website to provide > functionality is incredibly short-sighted. > > >Would any of the people in favor be willing to fix it and improve it? > It's as simple as that. > > Personally, I'd rip out the "Select Firefox Theme", and at > ">LibreOffice >Paths" under Type add "Persona", and set path > "/home/toki/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery//persona" as the default. > > jonathon > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
On 2018-09-12 2:00 p.m., Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: > It´s nice to vote to keep something in, but when that something is constantly > breaking Why is it constantly breaking? Part of it is that it relies on a site operated and controlled by The Mozilla Foundation, using a product there that that organization has depreciated. Once upon a time, persona could be configured to use files on one's system. More specifically it was either /opt/libreoffice.version.number/share/gallery/ or /home/user-name/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery/persona or ~/share/gallery/persona/. Indeed, going into Expert Configuration, it looks like it can still be configured from there. However, like everything else in Expert Configuration, there is no user documentation. Is the "no" next to string, for Persona a boolean value, and if so, why isn't it marked as such. Or is it supposed to be the file? Playing with those values, doesn't enable Persona. Did I use "bad values"? Has the ability to configure it from the expert setting been completely removed? Has something else been broken? I can't tell. >and there's minimal dev interest to fix or improve it According to Archive.org, the average lifespan of a webpage is under 18 months. As such, relying on a third party website to provide functionality is incredibly short-sighted. >Would any of the people in favor be willing to fix it and improve it? It's as >simple as that. Personally, I'd rip out the "Select Firefox Theme", and at ">LibreOffice >Paths" under Type add "Persona", and set path "/home/toki/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery//persona" as the default. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
Pedro, you are absolute right. When you have a look at oxygen icons they were dropped cause there was no maintainer available since years. after they were dropped a new designer say he want to maintain. In general a CLEAR statement why something will be dropped is better than have something that is broken. Am Mi., 12. Sep. 2018 um 16:00 Uhr schrieb Pedro Rosmaninho < mota.pr...@gmail.com>: > That's all very nice but... Who fixes it? > It´s nice to vote to keep something in, but when that something is > constantly breaking and there's minimal dev interest to fix or improve it > (and it needs some dire improvements) why keep it then? Would any of the > people in favor be willing to fix it and improve it? It's as simple as that. > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 1:50 PM Halmai, Csongor wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> from my personal perspective, I don't use personas, I never did. But... >> >> I taught hundreds of people, children and adults as well and I can say >> most people like "funny little harmless" things >> like this. >> >> Just imagine how many users change their desktop background, even if they >> cannot see it the whole day. They simply just >> like personalize it. I think such a little thing that makes LO more >> attractive for the newcomers, should be kept. >> >> If it breaks then it should be fixed. >> >> Csongor >> >> >> >> >> On 2018.09.12. 3:44, infinitytec wrote: >> > I'd have to agree with the idea of removing Personas. Why? Because they >> keep breaking. A couple of prebuilt solid themes would do the trick. Allow >> people to make and tweak themes as well, and even add images. It could, >> perhaps, still be compatible with the Persona system, but rely only on LO >> to function, as I know some issues have been caused on Mozilla's end. >> > >> > >> > Any sufficiently advanced technology is magic to those who do not >> understand it.-A variation on Clarke's Third Law >> > Original message From: Jean-Francois Nifenecker < >> jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net> Date: 9/11/18 12:22 PM >> (GMT-06:00) To: "Роман К." <79045_79...@mail.ru>, Pedro Rosmaninho < >> mota.pr...@gmail.com> Cc: sberg...@redhat.com, >> design@global.libreoffice.org, libreoffice-dev < >> libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org>, "kainz.a" >> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from >> the >> >design meeting 2018-Sep-05 >> > Le 06/09/2018 à 12:32, Роман К. a écrit : >> >> Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding >> just 4-5 solid color themes. >> >> >> > I've (manually) added the LibreOffice 4 Light Ambiance persona from >> > Firefox on my trainer PC >> > ( >> https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/libreoffice-4-light-ambiance/?src=search >> ). >> > >> > Adding them is a chore: you've got to use the advanced mode because, as >> > already stated, the UI is not working anymore for a lng time. >> > >> > After having doubts about personas (in fact I was very reluctant to >> > using them), I can tell that it draws attention during training >> sessions ;-) >> > >> > So, I'd strongly vote to keep (and fix) the personas thingy and against >> > having only solid themes. >> > >> >> -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
That's all very nice but... Who fixes it? It´s nice to vote to keep something in, but when that something is constantly breaking and there's minimal dev interest to fix or improve it (and it needs some dire improvements) why keep it then? Would any of the people in favor be willing to fix it and improve it? It's as simple as that. On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 1:50 PM Halmai, Csongor wrote: > Hi All, > > from my personal perspective, I don't use personas, I never did. But... > > I taught hundreds of people, children and adults as well and I can say > most people like "funny little harmless" things > like this. > > Just imagine how many users change their desktop background, even if they > cannot see it the whole day. They simply just > like personalize it. I think such a little thing that makes LO more > attractive for the newcomers, should be kept. > > If it breaks then it should be fixed. > > Csongor > > > > > On 2018.09.12. 3:44, infinitytec wrote: > > I'd have to agree with the idea of removing Personas. Why? Because they > keep breaking. A couple of prebuilt solid themes would do the trick. Allow > people to make and tweak themes as well, and even add images. It could, > perhaps, still be compatible with the Persona system, but rely only on LO > to function, as I know some issues have been caused on Mozilla's end. > > > > > > Any sufficiently advanced technology is magic to those who do not > understand it.-A variation on Clarke's Third Law > > Original message From: Jean-Francois Nifenecker < > jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net> Date: 9/11/18 12:22 PM > (GMT-06:00) To: "Роман К." <79045_79...@mail.ru>, Pedro Rosmaninho < > mota.pr...@gmail.com> Cc: sberg...@redhat.com, > design@global.libreoffice.org, libreoffice-dev < > libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org>, "kainz.a" > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from > the > >design meeting 2018-Sep-05 > > Le 06/09/2018 à 12:32, Роман К. a écrit : > >> Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding > just 4-5 solid color themes. > >> > > I've (manually) added the LibreOffice 4 Light Ambiance persona from > > Firefox on my trainer PC > > ( > https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/libreoffice-4-light-ambiance/?src=search > ). > > > > Adding them is a chore: you've got to use the advanced mode because, as > > already stated, the UI is not working anymore for a lng time. > > > > After having doubts about personas (in fact I was very reluctant to > > using them), I can tell that it draws attention during training sessions > ;-) > > > > So, I'd strongly vote to keep (and fix) the personas thingy and against > > having only solid themes. > > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
Hi All, from my personal perspective, I don't use personas, I never did. But... I taught hundreds of people, children and adults as well and I can say most people like "funny little harmless" things like this. Just imagine how many users change their desktop background, even if they cannot see it the whole day. They simply just like personalize it. I think such a little thing that makes LO more attractive for the newcomers, should be kept. If it breaks then it should be fixed. Csongor On 2018.09.12. 3:44, infinitytec wrote: I'd have to agree with the idea of removing Personas. Why? Because they keep breaking. A couple of prebuilt solid themes would do the trick. Allow people to make and tweak themes as well, and even add images. It could, perhaps, still be compatible with the Persona system, but rely only on LO to function, as I know some issues have been caused on Mozilla's end. Any sufficiently advanced technology is magic to those who do not understand it.-A variation on Clarke's Third Law Original message From: Jean-Francois Nifenecker Date: 9/11/18 12:22 PM (GMT-06:00) To: "Роман К." <79045_79...@mail.ru>, Pedro Rosmaninho Cc: sberg...@redhat.com, design@global.libreoffice.org, libreoffice-dev , "kainz.a" Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05 Le 06/09/2018 à 12:32, Роман К. a écrit : Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding just 4-5 solid color themes. I've (manually) added the LibreOffice 4 Light Ambiance persona from Firefox on my trainer PC (https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/libreoffice-4-light-ambiance/?src=search). Adding them is a chore: you've got to use the advanced mode because, as already stated, the UI is not working anymore for a lng time. After having doubts about personas (in fact I was very reluctant to using them), I can tell that it draws attention during training sessions ;-) So, I'd strongly vote to keep (and fix) the personas thingy and against having only solid themes. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
I'd have to agree with the idea of removing Personas. Why? Because they keep breaking. A couple of prebuilt solid themes would do the trick. Allow people to make and tweak themes as well, and even add images. It could, perhaps, still be compatible with the Persona system, but rely only on LO to function, as I know some issues have been caused on Mozilla's end. Any sufficiently advanced technology is magic to those who do not understand it.-A variation on Clarke's Third Law Original message From: Jean-Francois Nifenecker Date: 9/11/18 12:22 PM (GMT-06:00) To: "Роман К." <79045_79...@mail.ru>, Pedro Rosmaninho Cc: sberg...@redhat.com, design@global.libreoffice.org, libreoffice-dev , "kainz.a" Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05 Le 06/09/2018 à 12:32, Роман К. a écrit : > Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding just > 4-5 solid color themes. > I've (manually) added the LibreOffice 4 Light Ambiance persona from Firefox on my trainer PC (https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/libreoffice-4-light-ambiance/?src=search). Adding them is a chore: you've got to use the advanced mode because, as already stated, the UI is not working anymore for a lng time. After having doubts about personas (in fact I was very reluctant to using them), I can tell that it draws attention during training sessions ;-) So, I'd strongly vote to keep (and fix) the personas thingy and against having only solid themes. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
Le 06/09/2018 à 12:32, Роман К. a écrit : Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding just 4-5 solid color themes. I've (manually) added the LibreOffice 4 Light Ambiance persona from Firefox on my trainer PC (https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/libreoffice-4-light-ambiance/?src=search). Adding them is a chore: you've got to use the advanced mode because, as already stated, the UI is not working anymore for a lng time. After having doubts about personas (in fact I was very reluctant to using them), I can tell that it draws attention during training sessions ;-) So, I'd strongly vote to keep (and fix) the personas thingy and against having only solid themes. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
Hello, all. I agree with "killing" Firefox personas. And I like adding just 4-5 solid color themes. BR, Roman Kuznetsov aka Kompilainenn >Четверг, 6 сентября 2018, 11:03 +03:00 от Pedro Rosmaninho >: > >Agreed, I would kill Firefox personas. It works tremendously slow, and it's >not very useful. >Also most personas do not look good with shipped icons. It would be >preferable to adequately offer a dark theme in every OS (Firefox is going >to support W10 dark theme with version 63). >At most offer 4 or 5 color themes (pastel colors based on modules dominant >colors maybe?). > >On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:52 AM kainz.a < kain...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> I am not sure how many work firefox personas are. In general l would prefer >> different color schemes instead of personas. >> >> Stephan Bergmann < sberg...@redhat.com > schrieb am Do., 6. Sep. 2018, >> 08:41: >> >> > On 05/09/18 20:49, Heiko Tietze wrote: >> > > * Personas not found again >> > > + importance high/major! >> > > + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118881 >> > > + >> > >> >> http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/About-Persona-lightweight-themes-td4244320.html >> > > + Options: >> > > + remove this feature completely >> > > + don't access images via network but ship a few and make the >> > feature an extension >> > > + revamp the code to adopt the new API >> > > + ? >> > > => preference to simplification and extension (Heiko) >> > >> > Not sure from the above what part exactly of the feature you want to >> > turn into an extension (the code itself or the persona data), but one >> > note: In general, be careful when including new kinds of data content >> > in extensions. That creates new interfaces between LO and extensions, >> > and those interfaces need to be kept compatible, which is a maintenance >> > burden. >> > >> > -- >> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> > Problems? >> > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> > Posting guidelines + more: >> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ >> > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy >> > >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ >> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy >> > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? >https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ >Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy Роман К. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
