Re: [libreoffice-design] The Gallery and shapes, following the UX/design meeting 2023-Nov-30
On 02.12.23 00:51, Regina Henschel wrote: It would be indeed interesting to know more about the use of the Gallery. There could be very frequently used objects. But on the other hand there might be objects which are only used by few users, but they do not want to do without these object. The Gallery items were changed for bug 131795 (and several others) based on insights at https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/04/01/the-many-faced-god-part-2-how-libreoffice-draw-is-expected-to-evolve/ . Of course it would be nice to learn if _nobody_ uses these shapes, as Eyal claims, or at least some, or on the other hand if users are offended by the design. Nothing to say against a more polished drawings, more custom shapes, and to challenge individual items. Everybody is welcome to submit improvements. The verdict on bug 158253 was "not actionable". -- Dr. Heiko Tietze, UX-Designer and UX-Mentor Tel: +49 30 5557992-63 | Mail: heiko.tie...@documentfoundation.org The Document Foundation, Winterfeldtstraße 52, 10781 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] The Gallery and shapes, following the UX/design meeting 2023-Nov-30
Hi Eyal, Eyal Rozenberg schrieb am 01.12.2023 um 22:35: 'curved-left-arrow', 'curved-right-arrow' etc. These four items in the Arrows category are all the exact same shape, but rotated in 4 directions and each with different coloring. No, their geometries are different and they produce different markup in the file. You need to look at the middle part to see, that they are different. And you cannot get one from the other by 90° rotation, because a rotation affects a text in the shape. We see this phenomenon a lot across the gallery: Artificially inflating the number of shapes with faux variety, which serves to obscures what the gallery actually offers. Many shapes in the Gallery are shapes corresponding to predefined OOXML-shapes. If we provided all predefined OOXML shapes, we would get a Gallery-theme with 189 shapes. This shape is a sort of a "flattened-3D-stripe" kind of arrow, making a U-turn or 180-degree turn. There's a non-3D shape making a U-turn (item 3 in the arrow category) - with more flexible controls than the 3D-stripe shapes, i.e. you give up flexibility for a 3D-effect. This feels like a weird choice to need to make. What's entirely missing, though, are shapes other than a U-turn arrow with a similar 3D effect. Even, say, a 90-degree circular-arc stripe rather 180 degrees, or a more straight-angle turn. Or more decorative gallery items which complement the use of this effect. The user needs are very different: garden planning objects or furniture or electronic components or mathematical illustrations or traffic signs or UML diagrams or outlines of countries... And think of all the thousands of cliparts. All such needs are better served by extensions than by bundled Gallery themes. More importantly, though, is the fact that these shapes are not finalized media one puts into a gallery for display: They are building-blocks for drawing diagrams. In a media gallery, I would not expect to even have control points. So, if you look at the 'oval-arrow' shape, or the shape named 'top-arrows' - they have no control points; it might be a lot of fun if we could pull and tug and scale different aspects of it, but - we can't; it's a finalized, albeit vectorized, piece of clipart. We can take it apart and play with its sub-components, but it's not in itself intended as a flexible component. Yes, the Gallery has very different kind of objects. We could discuss whether shapes should be grouped by their technical aspect or grouped by a topic. 'right-arrow', 'left-arrow', 'down-arrow', 'up-arrow' -- This is another example of four shapes, which are really just one shape with fake variety. Here to, you need to consider text in the shape. For simple arrows, the gallery offers a one-sided and a two-sided arrow, and that's it. But this quadruplet of duplicates is an important example for another reason: It's a shape that's already part of "Basic Shapes", in the "Block Arrows" category. So, all four shapes are just duplicates of another shape, which we already have available in a more accessible way. Shapes in the "Basic Shapes" category and the other categories are in most cases designed to be compatible with binary MS Office formats (e.g. ppt). We try to convert them to OOXML shapes on export to pptx. But that does not work in all cases. The ooxml-shapes from the Gallery can be better used for exchange with pptx, but they fail for export to ppt. ... except that the situation is actually worse than that. If you'll compare the gallery block-arrow and the "Block Arrows" block-arrow from the toolbar, you'll notice that the latter has a single control point, for the arrow shaft width; but the former has both that control point, and the one for arrowhead length. see above. So not only do we have internal redundancy within the gallery; and not only is there redundancy between the gallery and the Basic Shapes; but "Basic Shapes" has been neglected in this respect, with a better version of a shape having been placed in the gallery instead of where it belongs. I think mixing binary-based shapes and OOXML-based shapes is a bad idea because of the export problems mentioned above. Shapes: 'textbox', 'header', 'title' -- These shapes are just textboxes, each with a string of text, and at a different font size. Supposedly, they stand for plain textbox, textbox that corresponds to your presentation's header text font, and textbox that corresponds to your presentation title font. In actuality, they're nothing of the kind: It's just Liberation Sans in three specific sizes. If you change the presentation styles or use a template - these shapes won't adapt; and their names will just be misleading. This is another example of a set of shapes which have artificial variation; but they are also three shapes that will nev
[libreoffice-design] The Gallery and shapes, following the UX/design meeting 2023-Nov-30
In this week's design meeting, bug 158253 came up: Shapes-via-Gallery is problematic & partially redundant with the Shapes sub-toolbars and sidebar https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158253 I was not available to attend (it was during my work hours); but since this is not really about a bug, and since I believe the meeting saw anything but a serious discussion of this matter, I thought I'd reply to the list. I'll try to address some points regarding the issue of "Basic Shapes" vs "Gallery", and problems with what the Gallery has. I think this is relevant enough to bring this up on our mailing list even, since it's not about a specific bug but a large(ish) feature in our UI. So, A clip-art or media item gallery is certainly a useful thing to have. I'm not entirely sure it's important to have one built-in to the office app UI, but let's say we take that as a given. However - we should look at what our gallery actually contains: It's not just poor categorization. Just look at what's in there, and ask yourself if this is what we want to show users... but let me expand on that with a few examples: 'curved-left-arrow', 'curved-right-arrow' etc. These four items in the Arrows category are all the exact same shape, but rotated in 4 directions and each with different coloring. We see this phenomenon a lot across the gallery: Artificially inflating the number of shapes with faux variety, which serves to obscures what the gallery actually offers. This shape is a sort of a "flattened-3D-stripe" kind of arrow, making a U-turn or 180-degree turn. There's a non-3D shape making a U-turn (item 3 in the arrow category) - with more flexible controls than the 3D-stripe shapes, i.e. you give up flexibility for a 3D-effect. This feels like a weird choice to need to make. What's entirely missing, though, are shapes other than a U-turn arrow with a similar 3D effect. Even, say, a 90-degree circular-arc stripe rather 180 degrees, or a more straight-angle turn. Or more decorative gallery items which complement the use of this effect. More importantly, though, is the fact that these shapes are not finalized media one puts into a gallery for display: They are building-blocks for drawing diagrams. In a media gallery, I would not expect to even have control points. So, if you look at the 'oval-arrow' shape, or the shape named 'top-arrows' - they have no control points; it might be a lot of fun if we could pull and tug and scale different aspects of it, but - we can't; it's a finalized, albeit vectorized, piece of clipart. We can take it apart and play with its sub-components, but it's not in itself intended as a flexible component. 'right-arrow', 'left-arrow', 'down-arrow', 'up-arrow' -- This is another example of four shapes, which are really just one shape with fake variety. For simple arrows, the gallery offers a one-sided and a two-sided arrow, and that's it. But this quadruplet of duplicates is an important example for another reason: It's a shape that's already part of "Basic Shapes", in the "Block Arrows" category. So, all four shapes are just duplicates of another shape, which we already have available in a more accessible way. ... except that the situation is actually worse than that. If you'll compare the gallery block-arrow and the "Block Arrows" block-arrow from the toolbar, you'll notice that the latter has a single control point, for the arrow shaft width; but the former has both that control point, and the one for arrowhead length. So not only do we have internal redundancy within the gallery; and not only is there redundancy between the gallery and the Basic Shapes; but "Basic Shapes" has been neglected in this respect, with a better version of a shape having been placed in the gallery instead of where it belongs. Shapes: 'textbox', 'header', 'title' -- These shapes are just textboxes, each with a string of text, and at a different font size. Supposedly, they stand for plain textbox, textbox that corresponds to your presentation's header text font, and textbox that corresponds to your presentation title font. In actuality, they're nothing of the kind: It's just Liberation Sans in three specific sizes. If you change the presentation styles or use a template - these shapes won't adapt; and their names will just be misleading. This is another example of a set of shapes which have artificial variation; but they are also three shapes that will never be used, except perhaps by mistake; and of shapes which, I argue, no user would consider placing in their clipart or media gallery, because of their complete triviality. It is as though the Gallery populators decided to pack some shapes for us, in case we got stranded on a deserted island where the toolbars and menus don't work, and we can only use the gallery to insert anything these three are at
