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Status: New => Confirmed
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Title:
"Archive Manager" doesn't mean anything if you don't know what
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Assignee: Magdalena Mirowicz (magdalena-mirowicz) => (unassigned)
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Title:
"Archive Manager"
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Assignee: Nick Tait (jnick-tait) = Magdalena Mirowicz (magdalena-mirowicz)
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Title:
Archive
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't
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Title:
Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know
Nick, this has been on the paper cuts backlog forever. The proposal is
to rename and/or design a new icon. What does design think about this?
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
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Just another bump on this. Is there anything happening with it?
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Importance: High = Wishlist
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Title:
Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know
Just a quick bump on this one as it's been hanging around for a while
now. A number of suggestions have been made for using a more descriptive
icon, which seems like a logical solution since the current one gives
the impression the app is related to gardening work in some way.
** Also affects:
I've added Ayatana Design to the projects list to see what they think of
designing a new icon.
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Title:
Archive Manager doesn't
I disagree, dumbing down menu's will only lead to new users NOT learning
in the future... Why not have a screen during install that shows the
Archive Manager and what it can do (mainly create ZIP files) and educate
instead ?!?
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Title:
Archive Manager doesn't mean
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Importance: Unknown = Wishlist
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I don't think the name is that important. The graphic could be clear
enough to convey the concept to any user of any language if done
cleverly.
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Name of app: File Compression.
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rather than doing anything drastic, how about just providing brief
examples; something like Create an archive (e.g. zip, tar.gz, etc)
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I do not think that we should simply use a particular term just because
it is understood by users of a particular operating system: as has
already been mentioned above, Windows and OSX use different
terminologies anyway.
I prefer the idea of using our own expressive terminology, ideally
A lot of the discussion here is that some archives do not offer
compression, and therefore they should not be renamed to compressed
files. This is a completely irrelevant technicality. You are thinking in
the UNIX way, not in the simple user way. The simple user doesn't
recognize the difference
@Krzysztof Kosinski:
The simple user doesn't recognize the difference between
compression and archiving, because he has no use for
archiving. Why would anyone want to clump files together
if it offers no savings in disk space?
On the contrary, the simple user nowdays doesn't care about
An interesting thing about this papercut is that it is primarily trying
to help explain what the function of a right clicked menu item will be
for a user who is not already familiar with it. What about adding a
description that pops up on the menu when hovering over the selection,
similar to the
Pack Bundle sound nice. I still prefer 'package' even if it's reserved
for .deb packages, technically those are the same. But these
alternatives sound nice too.
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+ Another word: pack seems to capture both meaning, while not exactly
stepping on package reserved for .debs?
+ What about expanding the vague meaning of the operation by labeling
the menu Combine / Compress...?
+ What about letting the option explain itself in a submenu? Something like:
-
Ahh, it botched my ascii art.
Attached above dialog proposal in .txt form (UTF-8).
** Attachment added: archive-dialog.txt
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36297669/archive-dialog.txt
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
A compressed file archive isn't really an archive at all. I put things
into an archive that I don't want to see on my desk anymore, but might
need it again in the future. Really, when talking about an archive,
you're talking about it because we used to only be using tar (T ape AR
chive ).[*]
A
What I am missing in this whole discussion is the concept of
Education.
Ubuntu is a different operating system. It's okay for users to learn new
ways of performing tasks they may or may not have performed in other
operating systems. Using wording that is familiar or unfamiliar to them.
The bests
Interesting Paper Cut
I just thought I would add something in regards to the windows world
that is mentioned throughout
I think its slightly incorrect to think of the Send To -- Compressed
(zipped) folder dialog as universally used under windows. Ever since
zip files were handled by XP released
Another quick thought
are the words zip zipped unzip etc patented but Winzip in some
way?
so to use these words as a generic term for all compression, as apposed
to just referring to a zip file (compressed in zip format etc), may mean
its possible for Ubuntu to be sued for patent\brand usage etc
@Nils-Werner, This actually is a picture perfect paper cut. It's small,
easy to fix, and actually is very confusing.
My opinion is this:
The technical side: These files are archives, whether or not they're
compressed. I don't think that we should stop using the terminology of
an Archive. To
This isn't even close to a paper cut. Archive Manager handles more than
zipfiles. The overall name of these files are archives. What do you want
to call it? Zip-rar-tar-and-a-lot- more-manager, huh? Fix PPTP instead
so people can use VPN under Ubuntu. I don't believe som of you people.
Archive
removing milestone as per comment
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-
roller/+bug/15495/comments/42
And this is not incomplete [doesnt need more info from the bug reporter]
, but rather a triaged bug.
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Importance: Low = High
** Changed in:
I may have a different solution, that addresses the needs of most points
addressed here.
In the Gnome menu, for example Applications Accessories, each
application should have both a title name and a description beneath it,
preferably with a small font size and silver-grey coloured text.
For
If we're looking for synonyms, how about bundle? From dict.org:
bundle
n 1: a collection of things wrapped or boxed together [syn: {package},
{packet}, {parcel}]
2: a package of several things tied together for carrying or
storing [syn: {sheaf}]
[...]
I think that now it is time to stop looking at synonyms and accept that
there is not always a perfect answer - the problem is that users are
required to know what this technical term/operation is non-transparently
during every day tasks, not what term is used.
--
Archive Manager doesn't mean
Proposed solution:
* Change Archive Manager to Compressed Files on the Applications menu
The proposed solution is not right. Compressed Files is not a app
name, but rather end-result of the app.
/As an application menu/ , it is better as *File Compressor* , or
something of the sort.
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** Also affects: research38917
Importance: Undecided
Status: New
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I have a few suggestions:
Pack into / as file...
Store in / as file...
Combine into / as file...
Create (zip) archive...
Pack for web or email...
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Just an FYI to all: The context[right-click] menu ,in Karmic, is now
Compress.
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But the Subsequent dialogue, Is also Compress , that still needs to be
changed.
So this bug has actually been partially fixed.
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If this is marked incomplete, and someone is looking for a replacement
cut, shouldn't the milestone be moved back to a later date or removed?
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Package makes sense conceptually but we're already using that, and it
would only be more confusing to use that term for two completely
different things.
Envelope makes sense, but doesn't make a good verb. You could also say
you were creating a packet or maybe a collection.
The concept behind the
Yes. I agree. This could be very useful.
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Although I am a new user I wanted to add my thoughts to this bug. It
might help to get this papercut completed.
To get back on to the subject; As Martin Owens said above, I think it is
a good idea to look at how people use Archives. People, as I know, don't
use archives to store something or to
This bug appears to be stuck. We have reports of user testing that
produced data completely contradicting the design decision. Together, we
have spent more than a day on this so I am marking incomplete and will
look for a replacement paper cut.
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Status:
If the word Package is reserved for .debs, why don't we call an archive
a parcel or something similar. Also, it would make more sense to call
.debs Applications, as that is more specific than packages, and call
archives, which may or may not be applications packages.
--
Archive Manager doesn't
I agree, a package sounds much more like an archive than what is
essential (from a new users perspective) an installer. On the other hand
package is established with more knowlegable users as is (to a lesser
extent) archive so unless we can think of a name which is actually
unambiguously better
I think the problem with saying compress is that creating a tar
archive is most typical use case and tar archives are not compressed.
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How about enclose within a file
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I've asked a few non-technical users (mostly Windows users), all were
confused by the term compress. They can grasp the extract idea, but
unless you're technical or learned to used zip at a time were space
was dear (floppies, small hard drives) you'll have no idea what
compression can mean on a
I think that moving away from the term archive is a great idea as whilst
in the past people may have used archiving to store old files these days
it is mainly used for email attachments and similar. I think that we
should definetly include an imperitive verb such as create as it gives
users a
Terminology encyclopedia?
I scanned this threaded discussion and I was thinkingwhy not have a
terminology encyclopedia?
I am not sure how it would be implemented, but possibly have a help
context from the menu? When right clicking on things, in such the case
of create archive have something
The word Package or Box would accurately describe the purpose of
Archives, to combine files and/or to compress them. It gives a more
intuitive name, which a new user could understand.
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
Box is a too generic word that means almost anything and new users might
have trouble understanding the concept of Box this items... or Box
files and folders. Package is reserved for deb files (which are still
archives). I wonder if users will be able to distinguish package and
archives
I recommend Compress because all the participants could predict what
that might do and why they might use it.
Was one of the understood reasons why they might use it to group many
files into one to send as an attachment, or to create a single file
backup of a directory? That seems to be the
The aim of the paper cuts project is to improve the usability of the
Ubuntu desktop. What this debate reflects is that there are many ways to
solve this problem; what the design team aims to do is resolve these
discussions by conducting research with a broader audience.
In order to use something
** Attachment added: update with the suggested changes
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28369323/file-roller.patch
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I've added the suggested changes upstream with a comment and wait for
them to reply now
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Archive is the correct term in English.
Next you will have to change Search to Google in the menus.
If there is a need to be more verbose it could be Archive (incl. Compress) ,
where (incl. Compress) can be in a less contrast text.
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know
I quite desagree with compress... archives are not necessarly
compressed, and compressed files are not necessarly included in an
archive.
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I agree with Franck.
A tar file is an *archive* but its not a compress file. So by renaming all
Create Archive (the fits all scenario) to compress files will cause confusion
on how to create tar files. Perhaps a joined venture such as Compress/Archive
will be much appropriate in the gnome
Mac OS (tiger) uses Create archive of [whatever was selected]. It is
very difficult to understand for new users as well as for people coming
from the Windows Compressed (zipped) files world. So the problem we're
facing is that Archive is the only correct way of describing the
general category of
To reiterate the point I made (in the attached Gnome bug) when I filed
this originally, a reasonable proportion of computer users do not
recognise the word archive as referring to a file containing other
files. I asked the original user who prompted me to file this bug, and I
also surveyed around
Stuart, great example. The issue is then - if archive is not a good
name for files that contain other files, but it can also be one file,
just compressed to a smaller size, what name should we use?
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
Mat, that's why my original set of suggestions (Create Compressed File
and so on) were to be taken with a large pinch of salt, because I
couldn't think of anything better :)
However, there are, I think, three possible cases:
1. collecting many files together into one file and compressing that
Create Compressed File isn't far different from Compress..., although
'create' might make it clearer to the user that the file selected itself
won't be compressed.
We might use 'Compress (.zip)...' where .zip becomes whichever was the last
format used in the dialog. So it could read Compress
@Stuart:
Changing the name of the application is pointless and rather silly. Most other
archive managers have different names [WinZip, WinRaR, 7Zip].
Changing the menu entry to as I have proposed earlier might seem more
appropriate (I don't think user will care the name of the application or
Lightbreeze – I think it's acceptable for Compress... to be not
entirely accurate. I also agree that people who know what an Archive is
should not be affected by it. Will they find it acceptable though? Are
we not going to get flooded with Compress... is incorrect bugs? :)
Maybe there is a better
After giving this some more thought, I think I'd like to see the
existing wording kept as is. this is because we are trying to change the
wording to better suite users who have had alternative education and not
because the wording accurately describes or make the process immediately
obvious. We
** Tags added: needs-design
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I think Marting Owens is absolutely correct. The current term Archive
is the most descriptively prudent term that encompasses all the tasks
the Archive Manager accomplishes.
The term zip, and its derivatives is not an accurate description of the
underlying computer action...it is accurate when
Proposed solution:
* In context menu rename Create Archive to Compress...
* The subsequent dialog box should be re-titled to read: Create compressed
file
* The input box on the dialog box should be re-labelled from 'Archive' to
'Filename'
* Change Archive Manager to Compressed Files on the
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Status: Confirmed = Triaged
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On a related note, it might be prudent to add a How do I open ...?
section to the help, which would list how to open common types of files
and provide places to search for information on uncommon ones.
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
What I find interesting about this design bug is that the very concepts
are clashing with the way it works. If you talk of compressed files then
you could easily be talking about a directory of txt.gz files, which
would technically each be compressed with gzip compression.
On the other hand the
DanielV@ OK, not problem.
But in that case, if you double-click on archive it will anyway open
archive manager to view files, not directly extract them. And in this
case there should be on windows decoration insted of 'Archive manager'
banner written something generic like 'Content of whatever
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Milestone: None = round-1
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I think those users need to learn how to use a search engine or
reference manual. Assuming that an archive is always for compressing a
file, thought, compressed file could replace it.
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
I agree with Mark, hope this gets retranslated ;)
Although this looks minimal, well, for a novice linux user this can be
misleading (no way for them to guess what archive manager does), better
to talk about compressed files, it is more understandable ;)
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything
Getting some input here: http://www.ivankamajic.com/?p=143
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Status: Confirmed = In Progress
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Assignee: (unassigned) = Ivanka Majic (ivanka)
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
Scott Ritchie wrote:
There is a general problem here that we insist on having Open with foo
rather than actual application-defined verbs. The top four entries on
the right click menu shouldn't be Open with Archive Manager but rather
something like Open archive
That's a *really*
Could the design team come with wording suggestion there?
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IMO i thing that entire archive manager desktop file is anyway BS.
Everybody compress/uncompress files by right clicking on 'Add to
archive' or 'Extract files' command. Nobody needs any 'Archive manager'
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
@Laco: I disagree, I regularly have to check which files are in an
archive without having to extract them, or add some files to an existing
archive. Having an archive manager is great for this.
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive is
Yeah, I wonder where is he coming from. I for one create archives and mail
them out often, its part of my normal workflow with a computer.
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There is a general problem here that we insist on having Open with foo
rather than actual application-defined verbs. The top four entries on
the right click menu shouldn't be Open with Archive Manager but rather
something like Open archive
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** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Importance: Undecided = Low
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Status: New = Confirmed
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** Also affects: hundredpapercuts
Importance: Undecided
Status: New
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** Description changed:
A new user thinks I need to create a zip file, and doesn't know how to do
it.
If you don't know that a zip file is an archive, which many new users do
not,
then it's very difficult to tell how to create one. Create archive on the
Nautilus context menu, Archive
** Changed in: file-roller (Ubuntu)
Assignee: Sebastien Bacher (seb128) = Ubuntu Desktop Bugs (desktop-bugs)
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Archive has been in the English language since at least 1603:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/archive
Zip isn't even in the dictionary as referring to a collection:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zip
Zip is only knowledgeable to WinZip users of old. Noting that Windows
XP
** Changed in: file-roller (Ubuntu)
Status: Confirmed = Triaged
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There has been LOTS of discussion about this on the GNOME bug page, and
I can confirm that this is still a live issue on recent GNOME packages.
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Status: Unconfirmed = Confirmed
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Archive Manager doesn't mean anything if you don't know what an archive
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