Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:30 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan < nirbheek.chau...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 11:56 PM Sasa Ostrouska wrote: > > > > Hi I don't know how this is relevan, but since I am building gnome for > Slackware, I want to advise that we will also have in Slackware next release > > Python3 as up to the 14.2 release there is only python2. > > > > I'm not sure what you mean, Slackware has had Python 3 for a very long > time, fwict it has been available since 13.37 which was released in > 2011: https://slackbuilds.org/repository/13.37/python/python3/ > > Hi, slackbuilds.org is not official slackware package, and not always is updated and keept up with all the security patches. What I mean is that from Slackwares next stable release we have python3 distributed with the official slackware release, which was not the case up to now. In dropline gnome we had in the past to build up our ownpackage of python3. > Cheers, > Nirbheek > Rgds Saxa ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 11:56 PM Sasa Ostrouska wrote: > > Hi I don't know how this is relevan, but since I am building gnome for > Slackware, I want to advise that we will also have in Slackware next release > Python3 as up to the 14.2 release there is only python2. > I'm not sure what you mean, Slackware has had Python 3 for a very long time, fwict it has been available since 13.37 which was released in 2011: https://slackbuilds.org/repository/13.37/python/python3/ Cheers, Nirbheek ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
Hi I don't know how this is relevan, but since I am building gnome for Slackware, I want to advise that we will also have in Slackware next release Python3 as up to the 14.2 release there is only python2. Rgds Saxa On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 5:42 PM, Christoph Reiter via desktop-devel-list < desktop-devel-list@gnome.org> wrote: > Thanks everyone for chiming in! > > I think we have all distros/OSes covered now and can make an informed > decision based on that. > > I've opened a proposal MR for glib to drop Python 2 support > https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/merge_requests/196 > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
Thanks everyone for chiming in! I think we have all distros/OSes covered now and can make an informed decision based on that. I've opened a proposal MR for glib to drop Python 2 support https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/merge_requests/196 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 4:25 PM Christoph Reiter via desktop-devel-list wrote: > macOS: > > There still isn't any system Python 3 in sight, and could be that it never > will happen. Homebrew works. > There is also a binary release (dmg) available for download on python.org, which works quite well, so you don't need to muck around with Homebrew to get Python 3. I have used it, and it works well. Cheers, Nirbheek ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Christoph Reiter via desktop-devel-list < desktop-devel-list@gnome.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Nicolas Dufresne > wrote: > > Stable distribution shouldn't block software from going forward with > > Python 3. Simply because stable OS won't update to whatever we release > > next, unless it's bug/security fixes. > > I agree in general, but as I noted at the end of my mail, RHEL 7 does get > non-bugfix/security updates nowadays. And from what I see many of the > people > working on those updates also work on GNOME and we should try figuring out > what they need before potentially making their lives harder. > > Speaking as one of the people involved in RHEL7 GNOME maintenance: we've never made demands to hold back upstream progress because it would be more convenient for us. We've worked around the python3 appearance in the a11y stack and the more recent meson adoption as well as we could. Its part of what we paid to do. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
Le dim. 15 juil. 2018 à 12:55, Christoph Reiter via desktop-devel-list < desktop-devel-list@gnome.org> a écrit : > > Slow-releasing/stable/"enterprise" distributions like RHEL, Debian, > > Ubuntu LTS and SLED are the usual sticking point for dependency versions. > > > > My understanding is that the main blocker for using Python 3 is > > that RHEL/CentOS 7 doesn't have it built-in, only as part of a secondary > > "software collection"? > > Yeah, that's also what I heard when the topic came up on IRC, but similarly > vague re RHEL.. :) > > > For what it's worth, requiring Python 3 would be no problem from Debian's > > perspective, as long as it isn't assumed to be /usr/bin/python: for > > compatibility with historical scripts, if /usr/bin/python exists then > > it is always Python 2, while Python 3 is available at /usr/bin/python3 > > if installed. Using Python 3 for all programs that can work in either > > version is recommended, and in particular we've used Python 3 for the > GLib > > and GObject-Introspection build tools since Debian 9 'stretch' (2017). > > > > We don't normally backport the latest GNOME versions to stable releases > > anyway; but if we do, the latest stable release (Debian 9 'stretch') > > has Python 3.5 as its supported Python 3 version, and the one before that > > (Debian 8 'jessie', 2015) had 3.4. > > > > Ubuntu is in about the same situation as Debian, with new LTS releases > > every 2 years, although a year out of phase with Debian (the most recent > > LTS releases were in 2018 and 2016 and have contemporary Python 3 > versions). > > That's good to know, thanks! > > I'll try to summarize the remaining cases: > > SLED/SLES: > > They use old versions [0] [1], so unlikely that they will try to backport > things now imo. I couldn't find a working package index for SLED, I assume > it > is similar to SLES. > > [0] > https://www.suse.com/LinuxPackages/packageRouter.jsp?product=server=12_pack==x86_64_name=libglib-2_0-0 > [1] > https://www.suse.com/LinuxPackages/packageRouter.jsp?product=server=11_pack==i386_name=glib2 > Just some more informations regarding SUSE Linux Enterprise: - SUSE Linux Enterprise 11 won't get any new service pack, so we won't push any version update of glib2. If fixes needed to be backported to customers, we'll have it (like we already did in the past). - SUSE Linux Enterprise 12 will have some service pack planned for release, but so far, we have no plans to update glib2 nor GNOME in those service packs. We will stick to GNOME 3.20 for SLE12. - SUSE Linux Enterprise 15 is released to the public TODAY and is using python3 by default (when it is possible), so it shouldn't be any concern. SLE15 is shipped with GNOME 3.26 and we will update the GNOME stack with future service packs. I hope this helps everybody. -- -- Frédéric Crozat ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Nicolas Dufresne wrote: > Stable distribution shouldn't block software from going forward with > Python 3. Simply because stable OS won't update to whatever we release > next, unless it's bug/security fixes. I agree in general, but as I noted at the end of my mail, RHEL 7 does get non-bugfix/security updates nowadays. And from what I see many of the people working on those updates also work on GNOME and we should try figuring out what they need before potentially making their lives harder. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
Le dimanche 15 juillet 2018 à 12:54 +0200, Christoph Reiter via desktop-devel-list a écrit : > > My understanding is that the main blocker for using Python 3 is > > that RHEL/CentOS 7 doesn't have it built-in, only as part of a secondary > > "software collection"? > > Yeah, that's also what I heard when the topic came up on IRC, but similarly > vague re RHEL.. :) Stable distribution shouldn't block software from going forward with Python 3. Simply because stable OS won't update to whatever we release next, unless it's bug/security fixes. Nicolas ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
> Slow-releasing/stable/"enterprise" distributions like RHEL, Debian, > Ubuntu LTS and SLED are the usual sticking point for dependency versions. > > My understanding is that the main blocker for using Python 3 is > that RHEL/CentOS 7 doesn't have it built-in, only as part of a secondary > "software collection"? Yeah, that's also what I heard when the topic came up on IRC, but similarly vague re RHEL.. :) > For what it's worth, requiring Python 3 would be no problem from Debian's > perspective, as long as it isn't assumed to be /usr/bin/python: for > compatibility with historical scripts, if /usr/bin/python exists then > it is always Python 2, while Python 3 is available at /usr/bin/python3 > if installed. Using Python 3 for all programs that can work in either > version is recommended, and in particular we've used Python 3 for the GLib > and GObject-Introspection build tools since Debian 9 'stretch' (2017). > > We don't normally backport the latest GNOME versions to stable releases > anyway; but if we do, the latest stable release (Debian 9 'stretch') > has Python 3.5 as its supported Python 3 version, and the one before that > (Debian 8 'jessie', 2015) had 3.4. > > Ubuntu is in about the same situation as Debian, with new LTS releases > every 2 years, although a year out of phase with Debian (the most recent > LTS releases were in 2018 and 2016 and have contemporary Python 3 versions). That's good to know, thanks! I'll try to summarize the remaining cases: Windows: I'm confident that on Windows Python 3 is enough in all cases. MSYS2 switched some months ago and all looks good. gvsbuild also uses Python 3. macOS: There still isn't any system Python 3 in sight, and could be that it never will happen. Homebrew works. SLED/SLES: They use old versions [0] [1], so unlikely that they will try to backport things now imo. I couldn't find a working package index for SLED, I assume it is similar to SLES. [0] https://www.suse.com/LinuxPackages/packageRouter.jsp?product=server=12_pack==x86_64_name=libglib-2_0-0 [1] https://www.suse.com/LinuxPackages/packageRouter.jsp?product=server=11_pack==i386_name=glib2 RHEL7: RHEL got a GNOME 3.26 update for 7.5 and there is a 3.28 update in the works for 7.6 [3]. Full support for 7.X ends with "~Q4 of 2019" [4] and based on the previous update intervals [5] this should mean RHEL 7.7 is the last feature release. GNOME 3.32 comes out some months before that, so it theoretically could make it into the last release. This means we can drop Python 2 definitely after GNOME 3.32, or earlier if someone from RH can rule out that 3.32 will make it into RHEL 7 (anyone?). [3] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1567375 [4] https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux#Version_history_and_timeline ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Python 2 support in GNOME build tools
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 at 09:29:26 +0200, Christoph Reiter via desktop-devel-list wrote: > we currently do support Python 2 and 3 for things like gobject-introspection > and glib scripts etc. and while I don't see any problem with continuing that > support I'd like to know why we still need to support Python 2 there. i.e. > What needs to happen so that Python 3 support is enough for everyone? Slow-releasing/stable/"enterprise" distributions like RHEL, Debian, Ubuntu LTS and SLED are the usual sticking point for dependency versions. My understanding is that the main blocker for using Python 3 is that RHEL/CentOS 7 doesn't have it built-in, only as part of a secondary "software collection"? For what it's worth, requiring Python 3 would be no problem from Debian's perspective, as long as it isn't assumed to be /usr/bin/python: for compatibility with historical scripts, if /usr/bin/python exists then it is always Python 2, while Python 3 is available at /usr/bin/python3 if installed. Using Python 3 for all programs that can work in either version is recommended, and in particular we've used Python 3 for the GLib and GObject-Introspection build tools since Debian 9 'stretch' (2017). We don't normally backport the latest GNOME versions to stable releases anyway; but if we do, the latest stable release (Debian 9 'stretch') has Python 3.5 as its supported Python 3 version, and the one before that (Debian 8 'jessie', 2015) had 3.4. Ubuntu is in about the same situation as Debian, with new LTS releases every 2 years, although a year out of phase with Debian (the most recent LTS releases were in 2018 and 2016 and have contemporary Python 3 versions). smcv ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
