I also noticed actual versions of xkb-data & xkb-data-i18n in Ubuntu
14.04.4/5 broke again right-ctrl-key with french ( alternative )
keyboard.
I've fixed it installing versions from xenial, using dpkg command.
http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/xkb-data
the fix looks like it'll reintroduce some form of #9529? or was the use
of level4n instead of level4nl intentional?
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@Dominique Meèus : how did you install xkb-data 2.12-1 in Trusty ? I've
downloaded the .deb from https://packages.debian.org/sid/all/xkb-data/download
but gdebi says : État : Erreur : n'est plus fourni xkb-data
I've tried through Logithèque which seems to install it (no error message)
but still
As Trusty Tahr is a LTS edition, it should include the bug resolution so
that it won't last for years.
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Title:
it would be nice to have a bug we can use for the SRU, not sure if that
one is appropriate since it's years old and close. Otherwise agreed that
we should fix that issue in trusty
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Sebastien Bacher a écrit ce qui suit, le 23/07/14 12:10 :
it would be nice to have a bug we can use for the SRU, not sure if that
one is appropriate since it's years old and close. Otherwise agreed that
we should fix that issue in trusty
In the Debian sid package xkb-data 2.12-1, the bug *is*
Hi,
Any chance to see this bug fixed in Trusty too?
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Title:
Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard
Status in
ok, Daniel and Julien put last two nails into that coffin. I removed
right control as level5 modifier in git. Thank you everybody. Really
sorry there is no perfect solution here...
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** Changed in: xkeyboard-config
Status: Confirmed = Fix Released
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Title:
Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS
FWIW after user complaints I've reverted this change in Debian's
xkeyboard-config, to have right control behave normally again.
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I don't believe this thread... Really, this is just unbelivable!
Nicolas, I don't know you, but you should seriously try to work on
yourself and learn to accept when you're wrong.
For the virtual poll here, I say : PUT BACK THE CRTL-R KEY.
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At the risk of just making things worse ...
My €0.02 is that we should stick with level 5 right Control as being
optional. This is a marginal (in terms of percentage of userbase that
will ever see/use it) layout that people have to go out of their way to
use, but still taking away a modifier is a
You're kidding ! In France, professional typographists use Macintosh, I
fear. And the average French user is not Joe, he's Jean.
And I'll write unconstructive sarcasms until I get my Right-Ctrl back ! (Do
note the French style space before the exclamation marks)
Le 12 mai 2014 07:10, Swâmi
BTW, about the punctuation signs that, in French, requires a nbsp before
them, i.e. ; : ! ? (for perfect typographic correctness, while
usually few people know about this and nobody really cares...) :
Usual word processing programs, such as OpenOffice / LibreOffice, when
configured to the
Swâmi,
We've all laid out these arguments many times over. Yes, this issue is
frustrating (and I regret having vented some of my own frustration in my
first comments) but let's keep it civil.
There are proposed solutions. I, for one, think Andreas' proposal is the
best way out of the current
I too believe that Andreas' proposal is the right one. It permits people
who really want the extra 5th level to be able to easily get it, while
not breaking the 99% usual usage.
Just for the record, I had not seen the linuxfr discussion. I guess
mostly only people who would want the extra 5th
About a short nbsp in french, let's make it perfectly clear that there
must be about a hundred professionnal typographists in the whole country
who care about it - most of them not using Linux BTW - and the rest of
the ~40 million computer users here don't give a shit about a short
nbsp and don't
Created attachment 98826
Make Level 5 choosers more easily available
The patch makes existing options for Level 5 choosers more easily
available by adding them to the rules. This is useful in its own right,
irrespective of this bug. In context of this ongoing discussion, it
would allow to
Nicolas,
Where does the need to *have* a key for nbsp come from? Isn't a compose
combo more appropriate and less error-prone?
Cheers
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(In reply to comment #75)
Nicolas,
Where does the need to *have* a key for nbsp come from?
Because unlike in English most French punctuation symbols require a
space (sometimes a short space) before. And if it's not a non-breakable
space apps will perform line breaks at the wrong position and
However, for most French people, standard Right-Ctrl key is more important
than Nbsp.
Especially for left-handed people who use left hand for the mouse and most
letters, and right hand for Shift, Ctrl and AltGr. A notable exception is
Alt which only exists on the left.
Anyway, it's written Ctrl
What if nbsp is accessible using AltGr+Space or AltGt+Shift+Space ?
2014-05-07 14:00 GMT+02:00 Emmanuel Castro emmanuel.cas...@laposte.net:
However, for most French people, standard Right-Ctrl key is more
important than Nbsp.
Especially for left-handed people who use left hand for the mouse
Please give us our Right Ctrl key back. Forcing everyone to make his own
.Xmodmap to bypass the bug *is* the disproportionnate thing IMO.
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(In reply to comment #76)
Compose is not appropriate for basic symbols you need to write pretty much
any correct sentence in the target language. And adding a specific input
method for one symbol just because some people can't live with the modifier
ISO chose for level 5 is disproportionnate.
I'm at a loss as to what to do to help find a solution for everyone.
fr-oss is a great layout with many useful improvements over fr-latin9,
but the missing ControlR is a deal breaker. I'm personally back to using
the default fr layout and I'll advise users to do the same if they
want their
(In reply to comment #66)
Regarding the voting, is there generic popular Linux-oriented site in
France? Like slashdot.org or smth...
There is a popular Linux-oriented site in France (linuxfr.org) and the
final ajustments of this layout were done after discussion on this site.
I realise there
(In reply to comment #69)
…
Regarding the voting, is there generic popular Linux-oriented site in
France? Like slashdot.org or smth...
There is a popular Linux-oriented site in France (linuxfr.org) and the
final ajustments of this layout were done after discussion on this site.
I
(In reply to comment #69)
(In reply to comment #66)
Regarding the voting, is there generic popular Linux-oriented site in
France? Like slashdot.org or smth...
There is a popular Linux-oriented site in France (linuxfr.org) and the
final ajustments of this layout were done after
(In reply to comment #70)
If no agreement can be reached, would it be possible to have the old layout
accessible, even under another name?
The old layout was never removed and kept its historical name (fr
latin9)
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(In reply to comment #72)
The old layout was never removed and kept its historical name (fr latin9)
No, we are speaking here of fr/oss, but before it got right Ctrl as
level5 modifier (what this bug end up changing).
I bet everyone complaining here was very happy with fr/oss before this
Level5
(In reply to comment #71)
And even if we wanted to please those apps, we mayb be able to without
adding a new modifier (Level5) and a key for it -- again, see (comment #46).
I'm pretty sure some of the other spacebar configurations available as
xkb options do not require level5. They are not
I discovered that bug with Ubuntu 14.04. Seriously what's the hell!
Sorry to be rude but Nicolas you seriously fucked up here and raised an
hungry mob.
I'm a full time developper and I just cannot think about writing code
without CTRL_R. It make me feel so hungry when I discovered that bug and
Before searching a level5 chooser, please, a quick fix!
2014-05-02 0:59 GMT+02:00 Sergey V. Udaltsov s...@gnome.org:
Nicolas, I understand the logic in your position about Level 5. But I
see a number of unhappy people. Could we find some other level5 chooser?
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Nicolas, I understand the logic in your position about Level 5. But I
see a number of unhappy people. Could we find some other level5 chooser?
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is there generic popular Linux-oriented site in France? Like
slashdot.org or smth...
LinuxFr.org
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Title:
Right-Ctrl
is there generic popular Linux-oriented site in France? Like
slashdot.org or smth...
LinuxFr.org
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Title:
Right-Ctrl
Bonjour, moi aussi je préfère que ma touche rctrl (Control R) se
comporte comme une touche Control, et non comme level5_machin_chose.
Merci d'avance,
alex
Hello, so would I rather my rctrl key to behave as a control key.
Thanks,
alex
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By the way, with this modification, the drawing around line 120
in/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/fr is wrong because it shows a keyboard
with a Ctrl key on the right, not a Level5 thing...
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Give us back - please - the right control key acting the same as left
control key.
http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=1563071
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I really do not understand why this key is disabled. If it is there, it
is certainly not to make the keyboard look pretty.
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Okay, your vote is currently happening on
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881
with 4 new entries today (from different people), 100% of them saying :
« PLEASE GIVE US OUR RIGHT [CTRL] KEY BEHAVING AS A [CTRL] KEY BACK !!!
»
To summarize further, AFAIK, there is ONE person in the world
Yes, please give it back !
Moreover I got two Super keys (with windows logo), why my right Super is also
broken ? Is it the same problem as Ctrl ?
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Rendez-vous la touche Ctrl-Droite, souiplait :-/
PLEASE GIVE US OUR RIGHT [CTRL] KEY BEHAVING AS A [CTRL] KEY BACK !!!
It is especially important for left-handed people.
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Since apparently no hardware maker is following ISO standards, may I suggest
creating new layouts such as oss-iso with Nicolas' changes?
Nicolas, what do you think?
Regarding the voting, is there generic popular Linux-oriented site in
France? Like slashdot.org or smth...
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Great ! Now the FR right [Ctrl] is B.R.O.K.E.N on Ubuntu 14.04 as well.
Given the number of french Ubuntu users (+ upcoming derivatives) I think
you'll have your vote and survey very soon, just by taking a look at
lauchpad bug entries and new comments on
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 -
Hello,
I am french, I use the Français (variante) keymap because I like how the keys
are arranged (², ³, œ, etc).
I also am left-handed and use Ctrl-Up and Ctrl-Down to switch desktops. I do so
by using RCtrl + arrows, keeping my left hand on the mouse.
Now, on Ubuntu 14.04, I am also
I would also like to add that Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDown, to change tabs
in tabbed apps (GNOME Terminal or Firefox, for example), now need a
manipulation involving both hands.
This is clearly a big regression, at least for left-handed people,
probably for right-handed people too...
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I vote for Both [CTRL] keys should act as [CTRL] keys.
Left one, rigth one, period.
If it is not clear enough : Je vote pour que les deux touches [CTRL]
agissent comme une touche [CTRL], la gauche, la droite, point-barre !
Et arrêtez vos conneries
2014-04-18 6:56 GMT+02:00 Swâmi Petaramesh
I feel extremely uneasy because I am a user of free software and I am
full of respect and gratitude for the people who make this possible,
including of course Nicolas Mailhot. I am an amateur and I am conscious
that I rely entirely on the work of devoted paid and unpaid
professionals.
But in this
(In reply to comment #60)
Gentlemen, I am really stuck at that point.
Allow me to sum it up.
- Nicolas is the sole advocate of having Control_R mapped to Level5.
- The rest of us want to go back to having both left and right Control
behaving the same way.
I'm not quite sure how you want us
Gentlemen, I am really stuck at that point. I am refusing to make any changes
before there is either some kind of agreement - or there are some minimally
conclusive voting results.
I do not take any sides (I cannot have any personal opinion, not using French).
I am just freezing the situation.
Sergey, you might want to check Ubuntu bug
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881
, which is a downstream reflection of this one.
There are some other loud voices there that you might consider as
taking part to the vote that you want.
I had in my office 2 peopl
BTW Sergey, I'm a bit surprised that you want a vote to fix something
that people complain about, when you didn't need any vote to break it in
the first place...
Would you need a vote, I suggest that you put a survey system online by
yourself on any web page that you'd like (so you know the vote
Just upgraded to Trusty and found about this not working Right-
Ctrl-gate. What a PITA.
My work-around for now : select Français (variante obsolète)
Regards,
Patrick.
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(In reply to comment #54)
So, finally, is everybody happy with me removing that line:
include level5(rctrl_switch)
No, just didn't see the point of restating what has already been written
before
A level 5 map needs a level 5 switch, iso defined right ctrl as default
level 5 switch so there
Repeating :
1/ Standard French keyboard has NO [CtrlGr] key. It does have 2 normal
[Ctrl] keys bearing the exact same label. The right [Ctrl] key actually
is a right [Ctrl] key and no other modifier or whatever.
2/ There are quite a *lot* of common, daily used by professional IT
staff, keyboard
I never heard of or used the level5 either, but to solve the issue could
we maybe put it in another layout? For example something like oss-
level5?
I personally have to patch the file on every package update and even if
I'm used to that and have the patch ready now, it gets annoying. On my
laptop
Even though I've been an IT professional for the past 3O years, I went
to a large computer store in France over lunch time, to find out if such
thing as a [CtrlGr] key could possibly exist on a french keyboard.
Let me tell you : I couldn't find any.
OTOH, I was surprised to notice that some
I had yet another good reason to revert to a normal right [CTRL] key
on a Fedora this morning:
I was working in a terminal with several open terminal tabs. Switching
between tabs is made using [Ctrl]-[PageUp] and [Ctrl]-[PageDown] - same
goes with other Gnome tabbed apps, as well as Firefox and
So, finally, is everybody happy with me removing that line:
include level5(rctrl_switch)
? If no objections within next week - I will just drop it.
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I spent a couple days extremely disappointed to have a broken right
[CTRL] key on a french keyboard on recent Arch installs, thus being
unable to use VirtualBox properly, and googling around (and let me tell
you that my googling showed me a *lot* of french people are really upset
with this as
More arguments in favor of reverting to an normal behaviour of Ctrl-R:
-- Most computers in most operating systems, languages (including French until
recently), desktops... have two identical Ctrl keys. It is queer to have French
keyboards doing otherwise since a few years.
-- Like having two
Could someone create poll on some french(belgian) web site, linux-
oriented. Which behavior would be preferable?
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Title:
That was just an idea. As usual, when there are controversies... Trying
to be democratic:)
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Title:
Right-Ctrl key
(In reply to comment #50)
Could someone create poll on some french(belgian) web site, linux-oriented.
Which behavior would be preferable?
Is this even necessary? I mean, the change wasn't made in the first
place because an user wasn't happy with the state, but because some apps
couldn't handle
(In reply to comment #50)
Could someone create poll on some french(belgian) web site, linux-oriented.
Which behavior would be preferable?
A poll would be pointless as its representativeness would be very hard to
determine.
Most users don't care as long as it works and may not even know there
Swâmi Petaramesh, vous avez bien raison !
Hopefuly, Ubuntu 13.10 kept the standard behavior for french keyboards
(both Français and Français (variante) a.k.a French alternative).
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This bug is still present in package xkb-data 2.10.1ubuntu1 (trusty):
include level5(rctrl_switch)
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Title:
Right-Ctrl
For some reason, I found myself using the 'fr oss' layout in Gnome 3.10.
And I must say that finding out that this layout was picked as the
default left me speechless: two keys on my keyboard no longer behave
according to what's *on* the actual key:
- the right control key, which just says Ctrl,
(In reply to comment #45)
(In reply to comment #44)
Until a solution is to be found, could 518c769d be reverted for now?
Breaking the very standard behavior of right control
It does not break the very standard behavior of right control any more than
altrgr breaks the very standard
Hello,
Until a solution is to be found, could 518c769d be reverted for now?
Breaking the very standard behavior of right control in all applications
(e.g. xterminals!!) is really not acceptable, compared to the few issues
that the behavior has without it.
Samuel
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(In reply to comment #44)
Hello,
Until a solution is to be found, could 518c769d be reverted for now?
Breaking the very standard behavior of right control
It does not break the very standard behavior of right control any more
than altrgr breaks the very standard behavior of right alt
It's
with too many types]. I do not have rythmbox, so I cannot test.
Can anybody with rhythmbox try that?
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Title:
I am honestly not sure how to translate that requirement into XKB
terms...
I agree - intercepting those combinations is really odd. So I always
have possibility to close this as WONTFIX. But if we manage to invent
something - that would be better..
can xkb work ass passthrough
It took me a
This reminds me of bug #45008. Just here, LOCAL_EIGHT_LEVEL does not
preserve Control. Adding preserve[Control]= Control into
LOCAL_EIGHT_LEVEL might fix the issue, an as it is not used elsewhere,
it actually might be acceptable [but it also means that
LOCAL_EIGHT_LEVEL in really a waste, given
So, lads, with configurable nbsp - is there any solution that would make
you all reasonably happy?
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Title:
Right-Ctrl
(In reply to comment #39)
So, lads, with configurable nbsp - is there any solution that would make you
all reasonably happy?
Is there a way to make the spacebar more neutral *except* for the
combinations that trigger something else than space? The main complain
seems to be that some apps want
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