Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[sebbaz]

If you trust a committer enough to do release management, why are they not on 
the PMC?

On 2020/08/13 22:52:55, Francis Chuang  wrote: 
> +1 from me as well. From our side, the risk is minimized as the process 
> to move the artifacts on SVN is automated using Vladimir's gradle 
> plugin, so there shouldn't be any manual intervention on the part of the RM.
> 
> Francis
> 
> On 14/08/2020 8:34 am, Ruben Q L wrote:
> > +1
> > 
> > Apart from the reasons already mentioned, if we want committers (not just
> > PMC) to get involved in the release management process, I think this step
> > would go in the right direction.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Ruben
> > 
> > 
> > Le jeu. 13 août 2020 à 23:18, Rui Wang  a écrit :
> > 
> >> +1
> >>
> >> if well used/tested svn commands for releasing are documented, committers
> >> without experience on release or svn can still use those properly.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Rui
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:09 PM Stamatis Zampetakis 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> +1
> >>>
> >>> I always thought that committers had access to the dist repo and I was
> >>> completely fine with it.
> >>>
> >>> Everybody makes mistakes no matter if it is a committer or PMC so I don't
> >>> see a reason to have different read/write access to the repo.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Stamatis
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:17 AM sebbaz  wrote:
> >>>
> 
> 
>  On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> > +1
> >
> > Clearly committers should have read and write access to all
> >> non-private
>  information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this
>  discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just
> >>> make
>  it so.
> >
> > The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or
>  deliberately) cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems
> >> such
>  as SVN or Git, any change can be rolled back.
> 
>  Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very
> >> different
>  in this regard.
> 
>  If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it
> >> is
>  *not* easily possible to revert publication
> 
>  This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files
> >> to
>  the world-wide mirror system.
>  And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to
>  revert.
> 
>  Mistakes are not easily recovered.
> 
>  This is why the default is for PMC members only.
> 
> > Julian
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
> >> finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC
> >> members
>  had to
> >> step in order to distribute the artifacts.
> >>
> >> By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
> >>  SVN
> >>> repository.
> >>
> >> This can be changed
> >> <
> 
> >>>
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-20681?focusedCommentId=17177075=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-17177075
> > .
> >> According to INFA:
> >>
> >>> A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved
> >> will
>  be
> >> fine
> >>
> >> PMCs please vote on this proposal.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Andrei.
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> 
> >>>
> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> >> [2]
> >>
> 
> >>>
> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> >
> >
> 
> >>>
> >>
> > 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Chunwei Lei]

Awesome! It really helps for the committers as release manager.

Best,
Chunwei


On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 6:58 AM Julian Hyde  wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification, Sebb. We now know, and accept, that the risk
> is non-zero.
>
> > On Aug 13, 2020, at 2:17 PM, sebbaz  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> >> +1
> >>
> >> Clearly committers should have read and write access to all non-private
> information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this
> discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just make
> it so.
> >>
> >> The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or
> deliberately) cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems such
> as SVN or Git, any change can be rolled back.
> >
> > Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very
> different in this regard.
> >
> > If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it
> is *not* easily possible to revert publication
> >
> > This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files to
> the world-wide mirror system.
> > And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to
> revert.
> >
> > Mistakes are not easily recovered.
> >
> > This is why the default is for PMC members only.
> >
> >> Julian
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
> >>> finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC members
> had to
> >>> step in order to distribute the artifacts.
> >>>
> >>> By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
> >>>  SVN repository.
> >>>
> >>> This can be changed
> >>> <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-20681?focusedCommentId=17177075=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-17177075
> >.
> >>> According to INFA:
> >>>
>  A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved will
> be
> >>> fine
> >>>
> >>> PMCs please vote on this proposal.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Andrei.
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> >>> [2]
> >>>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> >>
> >>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Julian Hyde]

Thanks for the clarification, Sebb. We now know, and accept, that the risk is 
non-zero.

> On Aug 13, 2020, at 2:17 PM, sebbaz  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote: 
>> +1
>> 
>> Clearly committers should have read and write access to all non-private 
>> information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this 
>> discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just make 
>> it so.
>> 
>> The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or deliberately) 
>> cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems such as SVN or Git, 
>> any change can be rolled back.
> 
> Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very different in 
> this regard.
> 
> If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it is 
> *not* easily possible to revert publication
> 
> This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files to the 
> world-wide mirror system.
> And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to revert.
> 
> Mistakes are not easily recovered.
> 
> This is why the default is for PMC members only.
> 
>> Julian
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
>>> finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC members had to
>>> step in order to distribute the artifacts.
>>> 
>>> By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
>>>  SVN repository.
>>> 
>>> This can be changed
>>> .
>>> According to INFA:
>>> 
 A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved will be
>>> fine
>>> 
>>> PMCs please vote on this proposal.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Andrei.
>>> 
>>> [1]
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
>>> [2]
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
>> 
>> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Francis Chuang]

+1 from me as well. From our side, the risk is minimized as the process 
to move the artifacts on SVN is automated using Vladimir's gradle 
plugin, so there shouldn't be any manual intervention on the part of the RM.


Francis

On 14/08/2020 8:34 am, Ruben Q L wrote:

+1

Apart from the reasons already mentioned, if we want committers (not just
PMC) to get involved in the release management process, I think this step
would go in the right direction.

Best regards,
Ruben


Le jeu. 13 août 2020 à 23:18, Rui Wang  a écrit :


+1

if well used/tested svn commands for releasing are documented, committers
without experience on release or svn can still use those properly.


-Rui

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:09 PM Stamatis Zampetakis 
wrote:


+1

I always thought that committers had access to the dist repo and I was
completely fine with it.

Everybody makes mistakes no matter if it is a committer or PMC so I don't
see a reason to have different read/write access to the repo.

Best,
Stamatis

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:17 AM sebbaz  wrote:




On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote:

+1

Clearly committers should have read and write access to all

non-private

information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this
discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just

make

it so.


The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or

deliberately) cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems

such

as SVN or Git, any change can be rolled back.

Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very

different

in this regard.

If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it

is

*not* easily possible to revert publication

This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files

to

the world-wide mirror system.
And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to
revert.

Mistakes are not easily recovered.

This is why the default is for PMC members only.


Julian



On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda 

wrote:


Hello,

For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC

members

had to

step in order to distribute the artifacts.

By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
 SVN

repository.


This can be changed
<





https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-20681?focusedCommentId=17177075=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-17177075

.

According to INFA:


A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved

will

be

fine

PMCs please vote on this proposal.

Thanks,
Andrei.

[1]






https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E

[2]






https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Ruben Q L]

+1

Apart from the reasons already mentioned, if we want committers (not just
PMC) to get involved in the release management process, I think this step
would go in the right direction.

Best regards,
Ruben


Le jeu. 13 août 2020 à 23:18, Rui Wang  a écrit :

> +1
>
> if well used/tested svn commands for releasing are documented, committers
> without experience on release or svn can still use those properly.
>
>
> -Rui
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:09 PM Stamatis Zampetakis 
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > I always thought that committers had access to the dist repo and I was
> > completely fine with it.
> >
> > Everybody makes mistakes no matter if it is a committer or PMC so I don't
> > see a reason to have different read/write access to the repo.
> >
> > Best,
> > Stamatis
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:17 AM sebbaz  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > Clearly committers should have read and write access to all
> non-private
> > > information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this
> > > discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just
> > make
> > > it so.
> > > >
> > > > The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or
> > > deliberately) cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems
> such
> > > as SVN or Git, any change can be rolled back.
> > >
> > > Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very
> different
> > > in this regard.
> > >
> > > If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it
> is
> > > *not* easily possible to revert publication
> > >
> > > This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files
> to
> > > the world-wide mirror system.
> > > And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to
> > > revert.
> > >
> > > Mistakes are not easily recovered.
> > >
> > > This is why the default is for PMC members only.
> > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda 
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
> > > > > finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC
> members
> > > had to
> > > > > step in order to distribute the artifacts.
> > > > >
> > > > > By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
> > > > >  SVN
> > repository.
> > > > >
> > > > > This can be changed
> > > > > <
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-20681?focusedCommentId=17177075=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-17177075
> > > >.
> > > > > According to INFA:
> > > > >
> > > > >> A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved
> will
> > > be
> > > > > fine
> > > > >
> > > > > PMCs please vote on this proposal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Andrei.
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Rui Wang]

+1

if well used/tested svn commands for releasing are documented, committers
without experience on release or svn can still use those properly.


-Rui

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:09 PM Stamatis Zampetakis 
wrote:

> +1
>
> I always thought that committers had access to the dist repo and I was
> completely fine with it.
>
> Everybody makes mistakes no matter if it is a committer or PMC so I don't
> see a reason to have different read/write access to the repo.
>
> Best,
> Stamatis
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:17 AM sebbaz  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Clearly committers should have read and write access to all non-private
> > information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this
> > discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just
> make
> > it so.
> > >
> > > The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or
> > deliberately) cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems such
> > as SVN or Git, any change can be rolled back.
> >
> > Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very different
> > in this regard.
> >
> > If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it is
> > *not* easily possible to revert publication
> >
> > This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files to
> > the world-wide mirror system.
> > And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to
> > revert.
> >
> > Mistakes are not easily recovered.
> >
> > This is why the default is for PMC members only.
> >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
> > > > finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC members
> > had to
> > > > step in order to distribute the artifacts.
> > > >
> > > > By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
> > > >  SVN
> repository.
> > > >
> > > > This can be changed
> > > > <
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-20681?focusedCommentId=17177075=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-17177075
> > >.
> > > > According to INFA:
> > > >
> > > >> A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved will
> > be
> > > > fine
> > > >
> > > > PMCs please vote on this proposal.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Andrei.
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Stamatis Zampetakis]

+1

I always thought that committers had access to the dist repo and I was
completely fine with it.

Everybody makes mistakes no matter if it is a committer or PMC so I don't
see a reason to have different read/write access to the repo.

Best,
Stamatis

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:17 AM sebbaz  wrote:

>
>
> On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> > +1
> >
> > Clearly committers should have read and write access to all non-private
> information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this
> discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just make
> it so.
> >
> > The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or
> deliberately) cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems such
> as SVN or Git, any change can be rolled back.
>
> Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very different
> in this regard.
>
> If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it is
> *not* easily possible to revert publication
>
> This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files to
> the world-wide mirror system.
> And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to
> revert.
>
> Mistakes are not easily recovered.
>
> This is why the default is for PMC members only.
>
> > Julian
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
> > > finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC members
> had to
> > > step in order to distribute the artifacts.
> > >
> > > By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
> > >  SVN repository.
> > >
> > > This can be changed
> > > <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-20681?focusedCommentId=17177075=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-17177075
> >.
> > > According to INFA:
> > >
> > >> A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved will
> be
> > > fine
> > >
> > > PMCs please vote on this proposal.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Andrei.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> > > [2]
> > >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[sebbaz]

On 2020/08/13 18:47:54, Julian Hyde  wrote: 
> +1
> 
> Clearly committers should have read and write access to all non-private 
> information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this 
> discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just make it 
> so.
> 
> The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or deliberately) 
> cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems such as SVN or Git, 
> any change can be rolled back.

Please note that the dist.apache.org release directory is very different in 
this regard.

If artifacts are published by moving them to the release directory, it is *not* 
easily possible to revert publication

This is because the release directory is used to distribute the files to the 
world-wide mirror system.
And to the ASF archive system, which would require Infra assistance to revert.

Mistakes are not easily recovered.

This is why the default is for PMC members only.

> Julian
> 
> 
> > On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
> > finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC members had to
> > step in order to distribute the artifacts.
> > 
> > By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
> >  SVN repository.
> > 
> > This can be changed
> > .
> > According to INFA:
> > 
> >> A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved will be
> > fine
> > 
> > PMCs please vote on this proposal.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Andrei.
> > 
> > [1]
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> > [2]
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Julian Hyde]

+1

Clearly committers should have read and write access to all non-private 
information in a project. I don’t even think this needs a vote. If this 
discussion quickly reaches consensus, as I assume it will, let’s just make it 
so.

The hypothetical risk that a committer would (accidentally or deliberately) 
cause damage is a non-issue. In source control systems such as SVN or Git, any 
change can be rolled back.

Julian


> On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:07 AM, Andrei Sereda  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
> finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC members had to
> step in order to distribute the artifacts.
> 
> By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
>  SVN repository.
> 
> This can be changed
> .
> According to INFA:
> 
>> A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved will be
> fine
> 
> PMCs please vote on this proposal.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andrei.
> 
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
> [2]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E

[DISCUSS] Open SVN dist access to committers

[Andrei Sereda]

Hello,

For the last two releases ([1] and [2]) committers were not able to
finalize the release due to SVN restrictions. One of the PMC members had to
step in order to distribute the artifacts.

By default, only PMCs are allowed to make changes to dist
 SVN repository.

This can be changed
.
According to INFA:

> A link on this Jira to an email discussion where it is approved will be
fine

PMCs please vote on this proposal.

Thanks,
Andrei.

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rbd84cf78ef250685a05fdb9c70708daa6558619093f510d27aabc1af%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E
[2]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ra180b94d785d5575558ab10d919521a6395fcce8899ed1dcda78d004%40%3Cdev.calcite.apache.org%3E