Re: Moving Mail, Activation, Transaction and Connector to Apache TomEE (was Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE)

[David Jencks]

I think each impl. needs to be in its own git repo, I’m not sure which already 
are.

I believe the tx manager is used in an OSGI spec impl in (I think) Aries. On 
the other hand they might have copied the implementation.  It might be 
confusing if the governing project and/or package names change. I don’t know if 
there are other uses, or how to find out.

It might possibly be simpler, after we get each subproject into appropriate git 
repos, to make people who want to work on these implementations geronimo 
committers.

David Jencks

> On Jun 14, 2022, at 9:36 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau  wrote:
> 
> No blocker from me (minor note being some are already on git so don't start 
> back from svn ;))
> 
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau  |  Blog 
>  | Old Blog 
>  | Github  
> | LinkedIn  | Book 
> 
> 
> Le mar. 14 juin 2022 à 18:29, David Blevins  > a écrit :
> Jumping off of this thread, is there any openness to discussing moving this 
> code over to TomEE?
> 
>  - http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/components/txmanager/trunk/ 
> 
>  - 
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-activation_2.0_spec/
>  
> 
>  - 
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-jakartamail_2.1_spec/
>  
> 
>  - 
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-mail_2.1_spec/ 
> 
> 
> These are on the critical path for TomEE, being updated in Jakarta EE 10.  
> We're not working on Jakarta EE 10 yet, but we'll hopefully be doing that by 
> early next year.
> 
> It's a bit painful to send people over from the TomEE project to here and 
> submit patches against SVN repos.  It would be great if we could have them in 
> git and under the TomEE PMC if possible.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> -David
> 
> > On Jun 6, 2022, at 1:59 AM, fpapon  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I would like to start a thread to discuss about the future of the Apache 
> > Geronimo Microprofile implementation:
> > 
> > https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/ 
> > 
> > 
> > As we can see, we don't have a lot of traction about the maintenance of the 
> > implementation to be up-to-date with the Microprofile specification.
> > 
> > The J2EE Geronimo server is no longer exist and at Apache, the active EE 
> > server seems to be Apache TomEE.
> > 
> > May be it could make more sense to move the Microprofile implementation to 
> > the Apache TomEE umbrella.
> > 
> > WDYT?
> > 
> > regards,
> > 
> > -- 
> > --
> > François
> > 
> 

Re: Moving Mail, Activation, Transaction and Connector to Apache TomEE (was Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE)

[Romain Manni-Bucau]

No blocker from me (minor note being some are already on git so don't start
back from svn ;))

Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau  |  Blog
 | Old Blog
 | Github  |
LinkedIn  | Book



Le mar. 14 juin 2022 à 18:29, David Blevins  a
écrit :

> Jumping off of this thread, is there any openness to discussing moving
> this code over to TomEE?
>
>  - http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/components/txmanager/trunk/
>  -
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-activation_2.0_spec/
>  -
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-jakartamail_2.1_spec/
>  -
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-mail_2.1_spec/
>
> These are on the critical path for TomEE, being updated in Jakarta EE 10.
> We're not working on Jakarta EE 10 yet, but we'll hopefully be doing that
> by early next year.
>
> It's a bit painful to send people over from the TomEE project to here and
> submit patches against SVN repos.  It would be great if we could have them
> in git and under the TomEE PMC if possible.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> -David
>
> > On Jun 6, 2022, at 1:59 AM, fpapon  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would like to start a thread to discuss about the future of the Apache
> Geronimo Microprofile implementation:
> >
> > https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/
> >
> > As we can see, we don't have a lot of traction about the maintenance of
> the implementation to be up-to-date with the Microprofile specification.
> >
> > The J2EE Geronimo server is no longer exist and at Apache, the active EE
> server seems to be Apache TomEE.
> >
> > May be it could make more sense to move the Microprofile implementation
> to the Apache TomEE umbrella.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > --
> > --
> > François
> >
>
>

Moving Mail, Activation, Transaction and Connector to Apache TomEE (was Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE)

[David Blevins]

Jumping off of this thread, is there any openness to discussing moving this 
code over to TomEE?

 - http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/components/txmanager/trunk/
 - 
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-activation_2.0_spec/
 - 
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-jakartamail_2.1_spec/
 - http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/specs/trunk/geronimo-mail_2.1_spec/

These are on the critical path for TomEE, being updated in Jakarta EE 10.  
We're not working on Jakarta EE 10 yet, but we'll hopefully be doing that by 
early next year.

It's a bit painful to send people over from the TomEE project to here and 
submit patches against SVN repos.  It would be great if we could have them in 
git and under the TomEE PMC if possible.

Thoughts?


-David

> On Jun 6, 2022, at 1:59 AM, fpapon  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to start a thread to discuss about the future of the Apache 
> Geronimo Microprofile implementation:
> 
> https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/
> 
> As we can see, we don't have a lot of traction about the maintenance of the 
> implementation to be up-to-date with the Microprofile specification.
> 
> The J2EE Geronimo server is no longer exist and at Apache, the active EE 
> server seems to be Apache TomEE.
> 
> May be it could make more sense to move the Microprofile implementation to 
> the Apache TomEE umbrella.
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> regards,
> 
> -- 
> --
> François
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE

[David Blevins]

> On Jun 14, 2022, at 2:44 AM, Thomas Andraschko  
> wrote:
> 
> yep, we probably dont have enough commiters to maintain it
> but instead of freezing, shouldnt we maybe think about how to make it more
> attractive and easier to get more contributors?
> we have sooo many contributors in PrimeFaces as the project structure is
> easier, everything in one repo, and so on
> 
> if you check how many repositories we have for MP implementations, API,
> homepage, ...
> 
> i always wondered about the whole EE projects and locations/structures in
> apache in general
> why is geronimo the place for specs in general?
> i always thought that combining some repos/projects in general would make
> contributions much more welcome and easier
> 
> Wouldnt it be much more self-evident if we would have something like
> https://github.com/apache/ee-specifications?
> Wouldnt it be much more easier and more inviting if we would have all
> microprofile impls in one repo? The time we even safe for all that release
> trains


> On Jun 14, 2022, at 2:44 AM, Thomas Andraschko  
> wrote:
> 
> i always wondered about the whole EE projects and locations/structures in
> apache in general
> why is geronimo the place for specs in general?
> i always thought that combining some repos/projects in general would make
> contributions much more welcome and easier
> 
> Wouldnt it be much more self-evident if we would have something like
> https://github.com/apache/ee-specifications?
> Wouldnt it be much more easier and more inviting if we would have all
> microprofile impls in one repo? The time we even safe for all that release
> trains

Large topic, but at one point in time Geronimo was the center of the universe 
for EE at Apache.  For example, the J2EE license agreement between Apache and 
Sun was managed by the then Geronimo PMC chair.  If another project had a TCK 
challenge, they needed to file a ticket in a JIRA project owned by the Geronimo 
PMC.  Geronimo people were heavily involved in bringing a lot of EE code into 
Apache during its strong years; OpenJPA, Yoko, OpenWebBeans, ActiveMQ, OpenEJB, 
CXF, etc.

Things that were generally too small to be their own top level projects stayed 
in Geronimo; transaction & connector implementation, specs, etc.

There was even a point in time were a project was being developed at Codehaus 
(GBean) that was perceived as only applicable to Geronimo and an attempt to 
undermine the project, so with board support those working on it were forced to 
move it into the Geronimo project to prove there was no attempts being made to 
undermine Geronimo.  OpenEJB and ActiveMQ were also moved from Codehaus to 
Apache to provide additional reassurance.  ActiveMQ and OpenEJB also started 
the XBean code in Geronimo to create a place to share random bits each project 
had in common and to further assure the Geronimo project.

There were several of us who felt the specs in particular might be better off 
in a common place, possibly Apache Commons, but that was against the tone at 
the time (see the above).

There was an attempt in the TomEE project to develop MicroProfile 
implementations that was met with some friction because that work wasn't being 
done in Geronimo.  I don't want to dig all that up again as it took several 
months to resolve.

The real trick is on the TomEE side of the fence we're switching to the 
SmallRye implementations.  This isn't because of where the code lives, but lack 
of resources to contribute to the Geronimo implementations and the significant 
amount of work getting them up to speed.

Maybe the best corse of action is to move them into the Apache Attic 
(https://attic.apache.org/)?  If TomEE or any Apache PMC decides they want them 
at some point in the future, that PMC could request the board to transfer the 
repos.

Thinking out loud.


-David



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Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE

[Romain Manni-Bucau]

hi Thomas,

commented inline


Le mar. 14 juin 2022 à 11:45, Thomas Andraschko 
a écrit :

> yep, we probably dont have enough commiters to maintain it
> but instead of freezing, shouldnt we maybe think about how to make it more
> attractive and easier to get more contributors?
> we have sooo many contributors in PrimeFaces as the project structure is
> easier, everything in one repo, and so on
>
> if you check how many repositories we have for MP implementations, API,
> homepage, ...
>

We actually did that > https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/


>
> i always wondered about the whole EE projects and locations/structures in
> apache in general
> why is geronimo the place for specs in general?
> i always thought that combining some repos/projects in general would make
> contributions much more welcome and easier
>

it is generally a 50-50, to sumarrize:

pro: single location
con: too much inconsistent things at the same place


>
>
> Wouldnt it be much more self-evident if we would have something like
> https://github.com/apache/ee-specifications?
> Wouldnt it be much more easier and more inviting if we would have all
> microprofile impls in one repo? The time we even safe for all that release
> trains
>

Was an option but people were not that homogeneous originally so dedicated
repos was more consistent with the actual work and avoided the "all in one"
pitfall that each contributor feels rejected due to a lot of work he does
not care about happening.


>
> and this is my perspective as long time committer here @apache - just
> think about how overhelming this is for new possible contributors
>

I think a big issue is that MP is mainly an implementation in its
communication (all vendors joined to have a single impl so there is no real
"spec" as EE was before) and that since they break quite often the *API*
people started to avoid it in apps after some time where it was embraced so
I'm not 100% sure even if I agree with the reasoning from a theory point of
view


>
>
>
>
> Am Di., 14. Juni 2022 um 11:04 Uhr schrieb Richard Zowalla <
> r...@apache.org>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> CC'ing dev@tomee here to ensure the discussion is seen.
>>
>> It is true, that TomEE moved to smallrye to update MP to 5.0 (jakarta)
>> due to a lack of contributors / resources to ramp up updated versions
>> in Geronimo.
>>
>> I have no strong opinion about switching the project umbrella as it
>> wouldn't change anything regarding contributions, I guess.
>>
>> Gruß
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> Am Dienstag, dem 14.06.2022 um 08:37 +0200 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > TomEE people didn't send much feedback and I know they are moving to
>> > smallrye so can be great to know if we must continue this way or just
>> > freeze the projects there?
>> > Anyone able to comment?
>> >
>> > Romain Manni-Bucau
>> > @rmannibucau |  Blog | Old Blog | Github | LinkedIn | Book
>> >
>> >
>> > Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 11:32, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
>> > écrit :
>> > > OK, it sounds good to me then.
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > > JB
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 8:13 AM Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> > > rmannibu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi
>> > > >
>> > > > Next step is likely to ask tomee since for now we just get the
>> > > consensus geronimo is a bad home for MP.
>> > > >
>> > > > If ok for them, I'd just move the project to tomee since, as
>> > > mentionned, we didnt work much on these projects and tomee was
>> > > driven last activity but guess it can be discussed on tomee thread
>> > > once created.
>> > > >
>> > > > Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 07:50, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
>> > > j...@nanthrax.net> a écrit :
>> > > >>
>> > > >> +1, it makes sense to me.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I guess we gonna do a vote. The question is about the
>> > > governance/PMC :
>> > > >> I do we plan to move PMC from Geronimo to Tomee or "just" use
>> > > Tomee
>> > > >> PMC ?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards
>> > > >> JB
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 10:59 AM fpapon 
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Hi all,
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > I would like to start a thread to discuss about the future of
>> > > the Apache
>> > > >> > Geronimo Microprofile implementation:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > As we can see, we don't have a lot of traction about the
>> > > maintenance of
>> > > >> > the implementation to be up-to-date with the Microprofile
>> > > specification.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > The J2EE Geronimo server is no longer exist and at Apache, the
>> > > active EE
>> > > >> > server seems to be Apache TomEE.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > May be it could make more sense to move the Microprofile
>> > > implementation
>> > > >> > to the Apache TomEE umbrella.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > WDYT?
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > regards,
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > --
>> > > >> > --
>> > > >> > François
>> > > >> >
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE

[Thomas Andraschko]

yep, we probably dont have enough commiters to maintain it
but instead of freezing, shouldnt we maybe think about how to make it more
attractive and easier to get more contributors?
we have sooo many contributors in PrimeFaces as the project structure is
easier, everything in one repo, and so on

if you check how many repositories we have for MP implementations, API,
homepage, ...

i always wondered about the whole EE projects and locations/structures in
apache in general
why is geronimo the place for specs in general?
i always thought that combining some repos/projects in general would make
contributions much more welcome and easier

Wouldnt it be much more self-evident if we would have something like
https://github.com/apache/ee-specifications?
Wouldnt it be much more easier and more inviting if we would have all
microprofile impls in one repo? The time we even safe for all that release
trains

and this is my perspective as long time committer here @apache - just think
about how overhelming this is for new possible contributors




Am Di., 14. Juni 2022 um 11:04 Uhr schrieb Richard Zowalla :

> Hi,
>
> CC'ing dev@tomee here to ensure the discussion is seen.
>
> It is true, that TomEE moved to smallrye to update MP to 5.0 (jakarta)
> due to a lack of contributors / resources to ramp up updated versions
> in Geronimo.
>
> I have no strong opinion about switching the project umbrella as it
> wouldn't change anything regarding contributions, I guess.
>
> Gruß
> Richard
>
>
> Am Dienstag, dem 14.06.2022 um 08:37 +0200 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > TomEE people didn't send much feedback and I know they are moving to
> > smallrye so can be great to know if we must continue this way or just
> > freeze the projects there?
> > Anyone able to comment?
> >
> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > @rmannibucau |  Blog | Old Blog | Github | LinkedIn | Book
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 11:32, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
> > écrit :
> > > OK, it sounds good to me then.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 8:13 AM Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > > rmannibu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > Next step is likely to ask tomee since for now we just get the
> > > consensus geronimo is a bad home for MP.
> > > >
> > > > If ok for them, I'd just move the project to tomee since, as
> > > mentionned, we didnt work much on these projects and tomee was
> > > driven last activity but guess it can be discussed on tomee thread
> > > once created.
> > > >
> > > > Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 07:50, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> > > j...@nanthrax.net> a écrit :
> > > >>
> > > >> +1, it makes sense to me.
> > > >>
> > > >> I guess we gonna do a vote. The question is about the
> > > governance/PMC :
> > > >> I do we plan to move PMC from Geronimo to Tomee or "just" use
> > > Tomee
> > > >> PMC ?
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >> JB
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 10:59 AM fpapon 
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Hi all,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I would like to start a thread to discuss about the future of
> > > the Apache
> > > >> > Geronimo Microprofile implementation:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As we can see, we don't have a lot of traction about the
> > > maintenance of
> > > >> > the implementation to be up-to-date with the Microprofile
> > > specification.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The J2EE Geronimo server is no longer exist and at Apache, the
> > > active EE
> > > >> > server seems to be Apache TomEE.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > May be it could make more sense to move the Microprofile
> > > implementation
> > > >> > to the Apache TomEE umbrella.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > WDYT?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > regards,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > François
> > > >> >
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE

[Richard Zowalla]

Hi,

CC'ing dev@tomee here to ensure the discussion is seen.

It is true, that TomEE moved to smallrye to update MP to 5.0 (jakarta)
due to a lack of contributors / resources to ramp up updated versions
in Geronimo.

I have no strong opinion about switching the project umbrella as it
wouldn't change anything regarding contributions, I guess.

Gruß
Richard


Am Dienstag, dem 14.06.2022 um 08:37 +0200 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau:
> Hi all,
> 
> TomEE people didn't send much feedback and I know they are moving to
> smallrye so can be great to know if we must continue this way or just
> freeze the projects there?
> Anyone able to comment?
> 
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau |  Blog | Old Blog | Github | LinkedIn | Book
> 
> 
> Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 11:32, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
> écrit :
> > OK, it sounds good to me then.
> > 
> > Regards
> > JB
> > 
> > On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 8:13 AM Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > rmannibu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > Next step is likely to ask tomee since for now we just get the
> > consensus geronimo is a bad home for MP.
> > >
> > > If ok for them, I'd just move the project to tomee since, as
> > mentionned, we didnt work much on these projects and tomee was
> > driven last activity but guess it can be discussed on tomee thread
> > once created.
> > >
> > > Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 07:50, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> > j...@nanthrax.net> a écrit :
> > >>
> > >> +1, it makes sense to me.
> > >>
> > >> I guess we gonna do a vote. The question is about the
> > governance/PMC :
> > >> I do we plan to move PMC from Geronimo to Tomee or "just" use
> > Tomee
> > >> PMC ?
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >> JB
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 10:59 AM fpapon 
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi all,
> > >> >
> > >> > I would like to start a thread to discuss about the future of
> > the Apache
> > >> > Geronimo Microprofile implementation:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/
> > >> >
> > >> > As we can see, we don't have a lot of traction about the
> > maintenance of
> > >> > the implementation to be up-to-date with the Microprofile
> > specification.
> > >> >
> > >> > The J2EE Geronimo server is no longer exist and at Apache, the
> > active EE
> > >> > server seems to be Apache TomEE.
> > >> >
> > >> > May be it could make more sense to move the Microprofile
> > implementation
> > >> > to the Apache TomEE umbrella.
> > >> >
> > >> > WDYT?
> > >> >
> > >> > regards,
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > --
> > >> > François
> > >> >

Re: [DISCUSS] Move microprofile impl to Apache TomEE

[Romain Manni-Bucau]

Hi all,

TomEE people didn't send much feedback and I know they are moving to
smallrye so can be great to know if we must continue this way or just
freeze the projects there?
Anyone able to comment?

Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau  |  Blog
 | Old Blog
 | Github  |
LinkedIn  | Book



Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 11:32, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
écrit :

> OK, it sounds good to me then.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 8:13 AM Romain Manni-Bucau 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Next step is likely to ask tomee since for now we just get the consensus
> geronimo is a bad home for MP.
> >
> > If ok for them, I'd just move the project to tomee since, as mentionned,
> we didnt work much on these projects and tomee was driven last activity but
> guess it can be discussed on tomee thread once created.
> >
> > Le jeu. 9 juin 2022 à 07:50, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
> écrit :
> >>
> >> +1, it makes sense to me.
> >>
> >> I guess we gonna do a vote. The question is about the governance/PMC :
> >> I do we plan to move PMC from Geronimo to Tomee or "just" use Tomee
> >> PMC ?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> JB
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 10:59 AM fpapon  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I would like to start a thread to discuss about the future of the
> Apache
> >> > Geronimo Microprofile implementation:
> >> >
> >> > https://geronimo.apache.org/microprofile/
> >> >
> >> > As we can see, we don't have a lot of traction about the maintenance
> of
> >> > the implementation to be up-to-date with the Microprofile
> specification.
> >> >
> >> > The J2EE Geronimo server is no longer exist and at Apache, the active
> EE
> >> > server seems to be Apache TomEE.
> >> >
> >> > May be it could make more sense to move the Microprofile
> implementation
> >> > to the Apache TomEE umbrella.
> >> >
> >> > WDYT?
> >> >
> >> > regards,
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --
> >> > François
> >> >
>