Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Sounds a lot more feasible than travelling to .us for a hack. But I'm wondering what this actually achieves? Sure, it gets people to focus on Getting Things Done, but a *scheduled* IRC+pastebin-based hackathon could do that without the hassle and cost of travel. IMHO, a 'virtual hackathon' has been proven not to be effective for us. In the past when we've tried those, they've been a dismal failure as so few people show up. The communication latency is also so high (people get distracted, bored, conflicting schedules) that a 'virtual hackathon' is really little better than the mailing lists we use every day. I think forcing people to get in the same physical room free from other distractions a few times a year (certainly no more than once a quarter!) would have good benefits for us as a project. It'd serve as a forcing function for our focus as a group: and that'd be excellent to drive innovation here. As I just said to David, I think the ASF-wide hackathons aren't as effective because many people are too over-committed to be able to focus on one thing while they are there. So if all the projects follow your lead, then instead they'll be too over-committed to attend (since they'll have to go to all these different hackathons for each project). I don't see how you can win this one - overcommitted people are overcommitted - they either want to give you their attention or they don't. If they don't you aren't going to engineer them into doing it. So, I'm opposed to project-specific hackathons - its inefficient and antisocial. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit. - Robert Woodruff
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: At 06:19 AM 12/11/2004, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. So, how many people would be interested, willing, and able to make it? Alternatively - I/www.asemantics.com is willing to arrange one in Europe - the Netherlands. Perhaps a lot later in the year -OR- at the SAME time(and wee then will link the two locations). Location will be easy to reach from Airport Schiphol by public transport. Need about 1 or 2 months lead time. In the quarters that ApacheCon/US and ApacheCon/Euro come together, this seems redundant. My other question - does it make sense to do both an EU and US in the same quarter? Or if we get 2 cons/year, should we just add 2 hackathons/year, one in each continent? There will be a hackathon at Apachecon/EU. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit. - Robert Woodruff
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:37:49 -0600, William A. Rowe, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Actually - all of this Euro talk reminds me how less-than-optimal the west coast really is for European participants. The east coast seems like a short hop by comparison.) east coast sounds much better to this North Carolinian perhaps California is the place that would result in the most people on site; not many people are chiming in on this thread, possibly because of the expectation of certain travel requirements???
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
* Jeff Trawick wrote: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:37:49 -0600, William A. Rowe, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Actually - all of this Euro talk reminds me how less-than-optimal the west coast really is for European participants. The east coast seems like a short hop by comparison.) east coast sounds much better to this North Carolinian I'd guess, for a European there's not so much difference ;-) For the Asian folks the west may be the better choice. perhaps California is the place that would result in the most people on site; not many people are chiming in on this thread, possibly because of the expectation of certain travel requirements??? FWIW: At this time there's no way to get me into the States, regardless of which coast, sorry. nd -- Gefunden auf einer Webdesigner-Seite: Programmierung in HTML, XML, WML, CGI, FLASH # André Malo # http://www.perlig.de/ #
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
But I'm wondering what this actually achieves? Social and fun :-) We're developing a global communications infrastructure. Let's b* well *use* it! Dw
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
David Reid wrote: Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. I agree with the sentiment but this list is httpd specific - is this *really* the right place to debate having a hackathon? I thought this would be a 'httpd' hackathon, not a general hackathon at least thats the impression I got from Justin's original message and the fact that it was raised on httpd-dev. -Paul
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Paul Querna wrote: I thought this would be a 'httpd' hackathon, not a general hackathon at least thats the impression I got from Justin's original message and the fact that it was raised on httpd-dev. Same here - a general hackaton is a bit more work - but also doable. DW.
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. I agree with the sentiment but this list is httpd specific - is this *really* the right place to debate having a hackathon? As Paul said, I meant only for this hackathon to be focused on httpd. If for example, we had an ASF-wide hackathon not held during ApacheCon, it'll just increase the 'distraction' on those that participate in multiple groups. During ApacheCon, I was frustrated that I kept getting pulled off to do infra@ or prc@ stuff instead of being able to focus solely on httpd stuff. (Sander and Greg kept getting pulled out for board stuff as well.) So, I'm very, very strongly in favor of having an httpd-only hackathon. Keep it small and focused to minimize distractions. -- justin
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Sounds a lot more feasible than travelling to .us for a hack. But I'm wondering what this actually achieves? Sure, it gets people to focus on Getting Things Done, but a *scheduled* IRC+pastebin-based hackathon could do that without the hassle and cost of travel. IMHO, a 'virtual hackathon' has been proven not to be effective for us. In the past when we've tried those, they've been a dismal failure as so few people show up. The communication latency is also so high (people get distracted, bored, conflicting schedules) that a 'virtual hackathon' is really little better than the mailing lists we use every day. I think forcing people to get in the same physical room free from other distractions a few times a year (certainly no more than once a quarter!) would have good benefits for us as a project. It'd serve as a forcing function for our focus as a group: and that'd be excellent to drive innovation here. As I just said to David, I think the ASF-wide hackathons aren't as effective because many people are too over-committed to be able to focus on one thing while they are there. -- justin
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. I agree with the sentiment but this list is httpd specific - is this *really* the right place to debate having a hackathon? As Paul said, I meant only for this hackathon to be focused on httpd. If for example, we had an ASF-wide hackathon not held during ApacheCon, it'll just increase the 'distraction' on those that participate in multiple groups. Well, the plans that were discussed at the Con were for that very type of event, NOT a project specific event along the lines you're discussing. During ApacheCon, I was frustrated that I kept getting pulled off to do infra@ or prc@ stuff instead of being able to focus solely on httpd stuff. (Sander and Greg kept getting pulled out for board stuff as well.) That's understandable. So, I'm very, very strongly in favor of having an httpd-only hackathon. Keep it small and focused to minimize distractions. -- justin Then may I'd suggest you not use the term hackathon :-) Organising an httpd developer get together is an excellent idea, but the hackathon is slowly turning into a brand and a series of events with all the baggage that goes with them... I'm hoping to arrange a hackathon in London sometime around the end of Feb/start of Mar 2005 (with hopefully another later in the year somewhere else in the UK). As it's a hackathon it'll be open to all and won't just be for one project or another. I realise people will think I'm splitting hairs, but as we move forwards I think these distinctions will become more and more important. Also I believe that there will be definately be a 2 day hackthon prior to ApacheCon europe. david
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
FWIW: At this time there's no way to get me into the States, regardless of which coast, sorry. Same for me. :( So a hackaton in the Netherlands or during the European ApacheCon would be fine. Kess
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. I agree with the sentiment but this list is httpd specific - is this *really* the right place to debate having a hackathon? So, how many people would be interested, willing, and able to make it? I might actually be around, but regardless this isn't the correct venue to discuss having a hackathon event. david
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:37:49 -0600, William A. Rowe, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Actually - all of this Euro talk reminds me how less-than-optimal the west coast really is for European participants. The east coast seems like a short hop by comparison.) east coast sounds much better to this North Carolinian perhaps California is the place that would result in the most people on site; not many people are chiming in on this thread, possibly because of the expectation of certain travel requirements??? Well, we've had concrete offers of a place on the West Coast and a place in Europe. We haven't heard anything regarding the East Coast (*nudge*). The East Coast would be fine with me and depending upon the time of year and the cost of flights, I'd be fine with traveling to Europe as well. What I think makes some sense is to try to shoot for httpd-specific hackathons 4x a year: once a quarter. Two of them would be covered by ApacheCon's, but in the other two quarters of the years: have one in the US and one in Europe. That way people who can't leave their neck of the woods have a shot at making it twice a year. My opinion is having two parallel hackathons at the same time wouldn't be very productive. -- justin
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. So, how many people would be interested, willing, and able to make it? Alternatively - I/www.asemantics.com is willing to arrange one in Europe - the Netherlands. Perhaps a lot later in the year -OR- at the SAME time(and wee then will link the two locations). Location will be easy to reach from Airport Schiphol by public transport. Need about 1 or 2 months lead time. Expect a fee of 120 Euro* (at the worst) per participant for a 2 day affair for meeting room rental, lunches, dinners, beer boze bandwidht etc; and between 45 and 65E/night for accomodation for 50-100 people. If there are less than 50 then it gets a lot easier/cheaper. Dw. *; though we could ask our PMC to ask the foundation for money.
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Alternatively - I/www.asemantics.com is willing to arrange one in Europe - the Netherlands. Perhaps a lot later in the year -OR- at the SAME time(and wee then will link the two locations). Location will be easy to reach from Airport Schiphol by public transport. Need about 1 or 2 months lead time. Expect a fee of 120 Euro* (at the worst) per participant for a 2 day affair for meeting room rental, lunches, dinners, beer boze bandwidht etc; and between 45 and 65E/night for accomodation for 50-100 people. If there are less than 50 then it gets a lot easier/cheaper. This is a good idea - NL is roughly the same time zone as me, no jetlag... :) Regards, Graham --
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Alternatively - I/www.asemantics.com is willing to arrange one in Europe - the Netherlands. Perhaps a lot later in the year -OR- at the SAME time(and wee then will link the two locations). Location will be easy to reach from Airport Schiphol by public transport. Need about 1 or 2 months lead time. Sounds a lot more feasible than travelling to .us for a hack. But I'm wondering what this actually achieves? Sure, it gets people to focus on Getting Things Done, but a *scheduled* IRC+pastebin-based hackathon could do that without the hassle and cost of travel. We're developing a global communications infrastructure. Let's b* well *use* it! -- Nick Kew
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
At 06:19 AM 12/11/2004, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. So, how many people would be interested, willing, and able to make it? Alternatively - I/www.asemantics.com is willing to arrange one in Europe - the Netherlands. Perhaps a lot later in the year -OR- at the SAME time(and wee then will link the two locations). Location will be easy to reach from Airport Schiphol by public transport. Need about 1 or 2 months lead time. In the quarters that ApacheCon/US and ApacheCon/Euro come together, this seems redundant. My other question - does it make sense to do both an EU and US in the same quarter? Or if we get 2 cons/year, should we just add 2 hackathons/year, one in each continent? (Actually - all of this Euro talk reminds me how less-than-optimal the west coast really is for European participants. The east coast seems like a short hop by comparison.) Bill
Hackathon during Q1 2005?
During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. So, how many people would be interested, willing, and able to make it? Since we haven't done one of these as long as I've been here, I don't know how long we used to do it for - probably a day or two, but open to ideas. It'd be open to everyone who shows up, but at this time, I don't think there'd be any sponsorship - so you'd have to pay your own way - although if someone would like to take the lead on exploring those opportunities, it'd be excellent. =) Thanks. -- justin
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
--On Friday, December 10, 2004 5:49 PM -0600 William A. Rowe, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Might be a good argument for choosing a location with some crash space nearby for anyone who doesn't want a room (if we go 2 days.) Obviously, for those split on paying for a room, they can solicit roommates. Sure. We don't bite... =) Were you thinking over the weekend? I know next year for me is a whole lot saner, and I'm sure game. Weekend - weekday - whatever works for the most number of people is cool by me. I figure the earlier we have a date set, the easier for people to plan. I might try to coordinate some other activities in SF appended to that timeframe (i.e. an infra@ hackathon which we also need to do and that'd require people being in SF as well). -- justin
Re: Hackathon during Q1 2005?
At 05:26 PM 12/10/2004, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: During ApacheCon, a number of us had talked about holding more frequent face-to-face meetings (or summits or whatever). Fred is willing to find a place for us at Apple with space and 'net access. Fred's suggested around the week of February 7th, 2005. That would work for me as well. So, how many people would be interested, willing, and able to make it? Since we haven't done one of these as long as I've been here, I don't know how long we used to do it for - probably a day or two, but open to ideas. It'd be open to everyone who shows up, but at this time, I don't think there'd be any sponsorship - so you'd have to pay your own way - although if someone would like to take the lead on exploring those opportunities, it'd be excellent. =) Might be a good argument for choosing a location with some crash space nearby for anyone who doesn't want a room (if we go 2 days.) Obviously, for those split on paying for a room, they can solicit roommates. Were you thinking over the weekend? I know next year for me is a whole lot saner, and I'm sure game. Bill
