Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Raphael Bircher]

Am .01.2017, 05:31 Uhr, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton :





-Original Message-
From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 19:39
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

If a member can not collect for the hole project, I think the ASF should
do. That would be the simplest solution.
Can we ask the ASF what they think? Are they against a simple OpenOffice
development specific fund?
After all this is a end user product, not some IT component.

[orcmid]

It is possible that targeted donations might have an arrangement.  They  
would not be for small sums, I think.
It would be up to the AOO Project Management Committee to make such  
requests.


However, there is a different aspect here.  The ASF does not pay  
developers.  None.  Not any.  Of course, contributors might make their  
contributions as part of their employment, but it is not paid by the ASF.


So targeted donations would pay for other things needed by the project  
that are beyond what ASF normally provides.


Both of these factors are related to the non-profit status of the ASF  
and how it defines its mission and what its policies are for achieving  
that mission.


We talked through much of this probably one year ago.

Other projects do have downstream producers who create distributions or  
forks and may be commercial.  But they contribute back upstream, and may  
have people who provide those contributions and work with the project on  
fixes, etc.


I personaly don't believe in that model for Apache OpenOffice. There is no  
need for a customized version of Apache OpenOffice. And the people who  
fork, do it normaly to have there own product. They don't want to  
upstream. But Yes, it is one model, who exist within ASF. Not that I'm  
completely against this way... If someone finds a way, to generate money  
to contribute back, it would be nice. But I don't think it's the right way.


I'm more with the payed feature model



We can dig up that conversation if you like.

I would be interested, where the discussion ends ;-)

Regards Raphael
--
Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch

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RE: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 19:39
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
> 
> If a member can not collect for the hole project, I think the ASF should
> do. That would be the simplest solution.
> Can we ask the ASF what they think? Are they against a simple OpenOffice
> development specific fund?
> After all this is a end user product, not some IT component.
[orcmid] 

It is possible that targeted donations might have an arrangement.  They would 
not be for small sums, I think.
It would be up to the AOO Project Management Committee to make such requests.

However, there is a different aspect here.  The ASF does not pay developers.  
None.  Not any.  Of course, contributors might make their contributions as part 
of their employment, but it is not paid by the ASF.

So targeted donations would pay for other things needed by the project that are 
beyond what ASF normally provides.

Both of these factors are related to the non-profit status of the ASF and how 
it defines its mission and what its policies are for achieving that mission.

We talked through much of this probably one year ago.  

Other projects do have downstream producers who create distributions or forks 
and may be commercial.  But they contribute back upstream, and may have people 
who provide those contributions and work with the project on fixes, etc.

We can dig up that conversation if you like.  

 - Dennis

> 
> Maybe we think and speculate to much, and should talk with the ASF
> first,
> asking them for help.
> 
> After all the donation text does not sound like ASF is against something
> like this.
> And they have seen what it means if no core team is availabe.
> 
> I guess they are open for ideas.
> 
> Jörg Schmidt  schrieb am Di., 17. Jan. 2017,
> 11:44:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > > From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com]
> >
> >
> > > > Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly
> > > > experienced OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> > > I think, the real problem there was this text
> > > http://www.opensourceforbusiness.info/openoffice-org-droht-das-aus/
> >
> > Yes you are absolutely right.
> >
> > But I do not see any great difference to my links.
> >
> >
> > > The only restriction the ASF have is, that you can not
> > > collect money in
> > > the name of a project as a third party.
> >
> > This is not the whole truth. Also as an Apache member, I can not
> collect
> > donations
> > for Apache OpenOffice and this is a very real problem, because almost
> > nobody of
> > the OO used for Apache generally donate, for AOO concretely many would
> > donate.
> >
> > > And Apache itself
> > > does not found
> > > defelopment.
> >
> > And that's imho bad. Where would the problem be if the users
> voluntarily
> > donated
> > and OO with these donations further developed?
> >
> > I can not see a reasonable reason why I, as a project member, are
> forced
> > to act
> > separately when it comes to donations instead of within the project
> itself.
> > It would be better for me to act within the project, because any
> activity
> > outside
> > weakens, indirectly, the project as such.
> >
> > > But you can collect money for Features or major bugfixes as a
> > > third party.
> >
> > Yes we can. But I believe that this is a fragmentation of the forces
> and
> > would
> > rather be done within the project.
> >
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Jörg
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> > --
> 
> Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre
> Antwort
> wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks
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> Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch
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> wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu
> verhandeln.


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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Peter Kovacs]

If a member can not collect for the hole project, I think the ASF should
do. That would be the simplest solution.
Can we ask the ASF what they think? Are they against a simple OpenOffice
development specific fund?
After all this is a end user product, not some IT component.

Maybe we think and speculate to much, and should talk with the ASF first,
asking them for help.

After all the donation text does not sound like ASF is against something
like this.
And they have seen what it means if no core team is availabe.

I guess they are open for ideas.

Jörg Schmidt  schrieb am Di., 17. Jan. 2017, 11:44:

> Hello,
>
> > From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com]
>
>
> > > Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly
> > > experienced OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> > I think, the real problem there was this text
> > http://www.opensourceforbusiness.info/openoffice-org-droht-das-aus/
>
> Yes you are absolutely right.
>
> But I do not see any great difference to my links.
>
>
> > The only restriction the ASF have is, that you can not
> > collect money in
> > the name of a project as a third party.
>
> This is not the whole truth. Also as an Apache member, I can not collect
> donations
> for Apache OpenOffice and this is a very real problem, because almost
> nobody of
> the OO used for Apache generally donate, for AOO concretely many would
> donate.
>
> > And Apache itself
> > does not found
> > defelopment.
>
> And that's imho bad. Where would the problem be if the users voluntarily
> donated
> and OO with these donations further developed?
>
> I can not see a reasonable reason why I, as a project member, are forced
> to act
> separately when it comes to donations instead of within the project itself.
> It would be better for me to act within the project, because any activity
> outside
> weakens, indirectly, the project as such.
>
> > But you can collect money for Features or major bugfixes as a
> > third party.
>
> Yes we can. But I believe that this is a fragmentation of the forces and
> would
> rather be done within the project.
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
> --

Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre Antwort
wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks
werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht auszuschließen das ihre
Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch
kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das ihre Mail, ihre
Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren online zu Google
konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird. Sollten sie dies nicht
wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu
verhandeln.

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello, 

> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com] 


> > Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly  
> > experienced OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> I think, the real problem there was this text  
> http://www.opensourceforbusiness.info/openoffice-org-droht-das-aus/

Yes you are absolutely right.

But I do not see any great difference to my links.


> The only restriction the ASF have is, that you can not 
> collect money in  
> the name of a project as a third party. 

This is not the whole truth. Also as an Apache member, I can not collect 
donations
for Apache OpenOffice and this is a very real problem, because almost nobody of
the OO used for Apache generally donate, for AOO concretely many would donate.

> And Apache itself 
> does not found  
> defelopment.

And that's imho bad. Where would the problem be if the users voluntarily donated
and OO with these donations further developed?

I can not see a reasonable reason why I, as a project member, are forced to act
separately when it comes to donations instead of within the project itself.
It would be better for me to act within the project, because any activity 
outside
weakens, indirectly, the project as such.

> But you can collect money for Features or major bugfixes as a 
> third party.  

Yes we can. But I believe that this is a fragmentation of the forces and would
rather be done within the project.


Greetings,
Jörg


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