[OSM-dev] GSOC 2016 - MapCSS styling and improved map data rendering for Vespucci

[Vincent Dorut]

Hi,

My name is Vincent DORUT and I want to apply for working for OSM in the
GSOC 2016.
I am a computer science student from ECE Paris, France.
I am actually doing an internship at camptocamp SA in france and I work on
the georchestra project : http://www.georchestra.org/
It's my first experience in the open source geospatial community and I
really enjoy it that is why I want to continue is this way.

I mainly work in java and I am also interested in android development too
that's why I want to apply for work on Vespucci project.

I am currently working on making my first OSM contribution and I am also
working to improve my knowledge of OSM data model.

My github account: https://github.com/vdorut

Feel free to contact me.


Regards,

Vincent DORUT
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Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaartor creates invalid highway tags like highway=unclassified; track

[Dave F]

I worked out how to replicate the problem in P2 by merging.

It doesn't render such ways in the editor & a error warning pops up.

So any such tagging is clearly user error & not editor error.


On 14/03/2016 12:59, Dave F wrote:


On 14/03/2016 08:58, Gerd Petermann wrote:

the only changesets with these errors are created

by Merkaartor  and Potlatch 2.



How are these "invalid tags" created in P2? I'm unable to replicate.


Dave F.


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Re: [OSM-dev] WG: Merkaartor creates invalid highway tags like highway=unclassified; track

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-03-15 10:55 GMT+01:00 Andy Townsend :

> However, this is still all a bit of a red herring



also exactly this kind of problem has helped me once in the past to
identify osm derived data on an incompletely attributed commercial map, as
there was an involuntary easter egg name (name=foo;bar;foo) that served as
a very strong indication of the data provenience.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-dev] WG: Merkaartor creates invalid highway tags like highway=unclassified; track

[Andy Townsend]

On 15/03/2016 09:37, Gerd Petermann wrote:




reg. the ediors: As I wrote before I don't know what one has to do to 
create the invalid tags,


my concern is that it is too easy to do without intention. If that is 
true it should be fixed in the editor.





Everyone involved - OpenStreetMap mappers, authors of editors and 
everyone else - is a volunteer.


If there's a problem with an editor (or any other piece of software) 
someone, somewhere has to figure out how to reproduce the problem 
reliably.  I suspect that the best person to do this is the person who 
seems to care most about the "problem" data being created, which in this 
case I suspect is you.


It can be tricky (see 
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/48637/why-does-id-keep-undoing-my-name-changes 
for an unrelated, but similarly difficult-to-reproduce issue) but if you 
care enough that "it should be fixed" you'll need to put in the effort 
to explaining what the problem is in the first place.


However, this is still all a bit of a red herring - as I said in a 
previous reply if one of the ways being merged didn't have the tag being 
merged onto it, the data would still be incorrect, amd the only way to 
solve that is by an educational, rather than a technical, response.


Cheers,

Andy

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[OSM-dev] WG: Merkaartor creates invalid highway tags like highway=unclassified; track

[Gerd Petermann]

I just noticed that I accidentially replied to Andy instead of the list, see 
below...


Gerd


Von: Gerd Petermann
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. März 2016 06:38
An: Andy Townsend
Betreff: AW: [OSM-dev] Merkaartor creates invalid highway tags like 
highway=unclassified; track


Hi Andy,


okay, I think I got your point reg. "corrections", and for sure I did not want 
to say that my time is more valuable than yours.

Maybe I was a bit agitated when I wrote this.


reg. the ediors: As I wrote before I don't know what one has to do to create 
the invalid tags,

my concern is that it is too easy to do without intention. If that is true it 
should be fixed in the editor.


Gerd





Von: Andy Townsend 
Gesendet: Montag, 14. März 2016 23:57
An: dev@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaartor creates invalid highway tags like 
highway=unclassified; track

On 14/03/2016 08:58, Gerd Petermann wrote:

Hi all,

I hoped that this problem was solved whe iD was corrected, but

some less often used editors still allow to create these erroneous tags.

Since iD was corrected the only changesets with these errors are created

by Merkaartor  and Potlatch 2. Fortunately these editors are rather rarely used.

I hope the programmers of these editors are also working on a fix ?


I think perhaps that we need to to a step back here.  You seem to be equating 
"valid" data with "correct" data, when in reality if something is "invalid" 
it's usually a very good indication that further survey is required, and if 
it's been made "valid" by someone picking a key/value combination that "the 
original user might have meant", there's no guarantee it's correct.

For example, on https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1057585745/history you've 
changed the obviously invalid "footway=sigtnpost" to "information=guidepost; 
tourism=information".
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-835a859acf0d378e1d14e88b15e7b4b95211ccd41a2c061b1629cfbbb8deb697.png]

OpenStreetMap | Node History: 
1057585745
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license.



What you've changed it to is "valid", but not necessarily correct; it might 
instead be an "information=route_marker", or it might be a bridleway marker 
suggesting that one or both of https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/5037727 and 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/167425506 should actually be 
"designation=public_bridleway" and have "foot=yes", "horse=yes" and perhaps 
"bicycle=yes" tags on them.

Now that you've "fixed" the data there there's no longer something that's 
"obviously invalid" that people can see and say "I wonder what that is supposed 
to be" before going out and surveying it.  Also, it's perhaps worth mentioning 
in passing that telling me via https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/35996416 
to "Please contact the original mapper" has perhaps lost some politeness in the 
German to English translation (as I'm sure it would the other way if I'd tried 
to write it in German); it suggests that your time is far more valuable than 
other mappers'.

It's a similar issue with semicolon-separated values.  If someone has created 
(say) "sidewalk=both;right" then it's pretty easy to see what's happened - 
someone has merged two ways together and not known to check all the tags. 
However, imagine if instead of "sidewalk=both" or "sidewalk=right" one of the 
ways hadn't got a sidewalk tag on it at all.  The result would still be 
incorrect, but there's no way to easily detect it.  The only way to prevent 
this problem occurring is to educate mappers about tags that they might not be 
aware of, and the best way to do that is to actually talk to them, not to 
suggest $technical_fix to whatever editing software they happen to be using.  
Editors can help, sure (for example, the way that Potlatch 2 highlights 
semicolon-separated values is one way of dealing with it) but ultimately a 
human needs to answer the question "why did that just happen" in order to 
prevent new and not-so-new mappers making the same mistake again.

Best Regards,

Andy (SomeoneElse)

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Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaartor creates invalid highway tags like highway=unclassified; track

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 14.03.2016 um 23:57 schrieb Andy Townsend :
> 
> Now that you've "fixed" the data there there's no longer something that's 
> "obviously invalid" that people can see and say "I wonder what that is 
> supposed to be" before going out and surveying it.


this is a very valid consideration. I also quite often encounter people 
"fixing" situations they don't know by introducing then hard to spot errors 
because the tags are formally correct but don't fit the situation. Heretical 
question: Maybe we should exclude tagging all together from the QA tools? 
Basically this kind of tampering  makes the "cloud-fueled" development of new 
tags almost impossible, because mappers retag stuff to other tags that are 
already established even if they don't fit well.

This kind of cleaning worker also are typically very convinced of their work, 
so discussions with them tend to take a lot of time and energy, often without 
satisfying outcome (=auto reflection).

I feel we should put even more emphasis on people having been to a place, maybe 
asking mappers to refrain completely from contributing to places where they 
haven't been.

cheers,
Martin 
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