Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. Bye Frederik *) And add in fine print if you're willing to devote a few man-months to get to grips with the finer details of Ruby, PHP, Python, PostGIS, Mapnik and others -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, 2009-04-30 at 09:03 +0100, Nick Black wrote: Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. But still, If you want an *open source* project to squash its competitors and completely change the game Then in my opinion you need to do that with *open source*. So while I do agree with routing being a good showcase and attraction to the project, I think this project is only succeeding in it's goals because of the open source nature, and we need to protect that. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Nick Black wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 9:04 AM To: Frederik Ramm Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. I feel this somewhat misses the point. Openstreetmap is about the data and nothing else. No data, no interest in OSM, huge data, huge interest in OSM. That interest will come automatically if we have the best data set bar none. From that point of view it doesnt matter at all what software is used to make use of the data, but as an open source project we should at least encourage and promote any open source software that is found to be useful and relevant. On the other side of the equation I dont see it as OSM's place to go promoting commercial products, even if they are good. We can list them on the wiki etc, but surely it is for those commercial companies to do their own promotion of OSM related products, not OSM. As for thinking we are a small specialised community I stopped thinking that way many months ago. We are THE big player here, but is in data, not software. OSM is not a software development project. Too many eggs in the basket if we were. Lets stick to what we know, which is collecting and maintaining a great dataset. Cheers Andy Bye Frederik *) And add in fine print if you're willing to devote a few man- months to get to grips with the finer details of Ruby, PHP, Python, PostGIS, Mapnik and others -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Sander Hoentjen san...@hoentjen.euwrote: On Thu, 2009-04-30 at 09:03 +0100, Nick Black wrote: Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. But still, If you want an *open source* project to squash its competitors and completely change the game Then in my opinion you need to do that with *open source*. You have to see that there's a dividing line though. On one side of the line - we use Yahoo! imagery that is powered by proprietary software. And we also use handheld GPS units that are powered by proprietary software. It would be insane to turn away Yahoo or ban contributions from Garmin units because the firmware is not open source. On the other side of the line there is the server software that gets better because its open source - if it was not open source, people might not contribute to the code. We have to be pragmatic when we assert opinions and ideals and ask ourselves if what we are considering will help or hinder OSM in the long run. Do we really think that having routing from a non-open source will hurt OSM more than it will benefit OSM? So while I do agree with routing being a good showcase and attraction to the project, I think this project is only succeeding in it's goals because of the open source nature, and we need to protect that. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Nick Black wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 9:04 AM To: Frederik Ramm Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. I feel this somewhat misses the point. Openstreetmap is about the data and nothing else. No data, no interest in OSM, huge data, huge interest in OSM. That interest will come automatically if we have the best data set bar none. OK, but there's a massive chicken and a bigger egg here. The point is very much that OSM should be doing everything we can to encourage a broad range of people to contribute to the map and be part of the community. What really worries me is an attitude that the only people who deserve the more advanced map editing tools that sit in OSM's SVN are people who have the technical ability to use them. I don't think any of us want to create a project that is only accessible by the technical elite. From that point of view it doesn’t matter at all what software is used to make use of the data, but as an open source project we should at least encourage and promote any open source software that is found to be useful and relevant. On the other side of the equation I don’t see it as OSM's place to go promoting commercial products, even if they are good. We can list them on the wiki etc, but surely it is for those commercial companies to do their own promotion of OSM related products, not OSM. As for thinking we are a small specialised community I stopped thinking that way many months ago. We are THE big player here, but is in data, not software. OSM is not a software development project. Too many eggs in the basket if we were. Lets stick to what we know, which is collecting and maintaining a great
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Nick Black [mailto:nickbla...@gmail.com] wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 1:48 PM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: Frederik Ramm; dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Nick Black wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 9:04 AM To: Frederik Ramm Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. I feel this somewhat misses the point. Openstreetmap is about the data and nothing else. No data, no interest in OSM, huge data, huge interest in OSM. That interest will come automatically if we have the best data set bar none. OK, but there's a massive chicken and a bigger egg here. The point is very much that OSM should be doing everything we can to encourage a broad range of people to contribute to the map and be part of the community. What really worries me is an attitude that the only people who deserve the more advanced map editing tools that sit in OSM's SVN are people who have the technical ability to use them. I don't think any of us want to create a project that is only accessible by the technical elite. Yes, and I'll jump with joy if someone creates a very straightforward editor that just enables a person
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Nick Black wrote: Do we really think that having routing from a non-open source will hurt OSM more than it will benefit OSM? ...since there is an open source initiative build from the community, then it will hurt that alternative by going closed. Stefan ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Nick Black [mailto:nickbla...@gmail.com] wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 1:48 PM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: Frederik Ramm; dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Nick Black wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 9:04 AM To: Frederik Ramm Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. I feel this somewhat misses the point. Openstreetmap is about the data and nothing else. No data, no interest in OSM, huge data, huge interest in OSM. That interest will come automatically if we have the best data set bar none. OK, but there's a massive chicken and a bigger egg here. The point is very much that OSM should be doing everything we can to encourage a broad range of people to contribute to the map and be part of the community. What really worries me is an attitude that the only people who deserve the more advanced map editing tools that sit in OSM's SVN
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: Nick Black wrote: Do we really think that having routing from a non-open source will hurt OSM more than it will benefit OSM? ...since there is an open source initiative build from the community, then it will hurt that alternative by going closed. I doubt it. I reckon the different open source efforts would focus on specialist routing - like making great bicycle routes that take into account elevation for example, which CloudMade's routing is not specialized at. Stefan -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Hi, i expanded the wikipage [1] for route services a bit to give everyone a better overview of the different advantages of the routing services. It is still not complete, so please help and add information and services. With this matrix it is easier to discuss which routing service would be the best for the osm.org website. Personally i think a good routeservice is important, because it shows the visitor the possibilitys of our data. I would prefer a open-source solution. Jonas [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routing/OnlineRouters ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Nick Black wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu mailto:t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? Well there are several reasons which would make me disinclined to integrate it, so I at least would need some persuasion. First up is the general question of whether we want a routing function on the site - it has been said repeatedly in the past that our aim is to provide the data and let other people innovate with it. This sort of things is just another step to making the site a full featured Google Maps clone where doing all the data presentation as well as the production. This is a position which I believe Steve has advocated on a number of occasions in the past. On top of that is the policy question of whether, if we decided we wanted a routing function, we would want that to be based on a closed source service from a commercial organisation. Obviously that is a policy decision for the Foundation but on the face of it I would tend to be opposed. Finally, even if we decided such a closed source commercial service was acceptable there are obviously specific questions when the source of that service is Cloudmade - the risk of such a decision being viewed in an unfavourable light by others when Cloudmade in general, and you and Steve in particular, are so closely linked to the project in general and the Foundation in particular is obviously quite large. Look at it this way - if we integrate this, what do we do when Frederik and Jochen come calling asking us to give their (hypothetical as far as I know) routing service equal space/prominence? At the end of the day, these are policy matters for the Foundation, but as things stand my advice to them would be along the lines described above. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Tom Hughes wrote: Sent: 29 April 2009 8:41 AM To: Nick Black Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. Nick Black wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu mailto:t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? My personal views inline below Well there are several reasons which would make me disinclined to integrate it, so I at least would need some persuasion. First up is the general question of whether we want a routing function on the site - it has been said repeatedly in the past that our aim is to provide the data and let other people innovate with it. This sort of things is just another step to making the site a full featured Google Maps clone where doing all the data presentation as well as the production. This is a position which I believe Steve has advocated on a number of occasions in the past. Agree with Tom here. OSM is about data collection and storage. Our tools on the main website should be focused on that. I can argue that all the current tools are useful for contribution in some way. Routing is also useful if its configured to help find errors, ie to test if the data is accurate in terms of routing, However this capability would be better integrated into editing software. On top of that is the policy question of whether, if we decided we wanted a routing function, we would want that to be based on a closed source service from a commercial organisation. Obviously that is a policy decision for the Foundation but on the face of it I would tend to be opposed. Again I agree with Tom, I don't see the benefit to OSM of adding close source services. Finally, even if we decided such a closed source commercial service was acceptable there are obviously specific questions when the source of that service is Cloudmade - the risk of such a decision being viewed in an unfavourable light by others when Cloudmade in general, and you and Steve in particular, are so closely linked to the project in general and the Foundation in particular is obviously quite large. Look at it this way - if we integrate this, what do we do when Frederik and Jochen come calling asking us to give their (hypothetical as far as I know) routing service equal space/prominence? Again I agree that as other have suggested if we did want a routing service on the OSM site it should not be restrictive to any one service provider. At the end of the day, these are policy matters for the Foundation, but as things stand my advice to them would be along the lines described above. The Foundation and the OSM contributor base need to debate what meets the current aims of the project and where there are gaps in meeting those aims. We might also debate whether the current aims are appropriate or if the community wants to change them. I'll bring this up at our next OSMF Board meeting. Cheers Andy ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
2009/4/29 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com Tom Hughes wrote: Sent: 29 April 2009 8:41 AM To: Nick Black Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. Nick Black wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu mailto:t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? My personal views inline below Well there are several reasons which would make me disinclined to integrate it, so I at least would need some persuasion. First up is the general question of whether we want a routing function on the site - it has been said repeatedly in the past that our aim is to provide the data and let other people innovate with it. This sort of things is just another step to making the site a full featured Google Maps clone where doing all the data presentation as well as the production. This is a position which I believe Steve has advocated on a number of occasions in the past. Agree with Tom here. OSM is about data collection and storage.Our tools on the main website should be focused on that. I can argue that all the current tools are useful for contribution in some way. Routing is also useful if its configured to help find errors, ie to test if the data is accurate in terms of routing, However this capability would be better integrated into editing software. Completely agree that this functionality would be best integrated into editing software, but OSM has always taken a one step at a time approach. I see this as the first step toward the editing tools supporting better validation of roads for routing. On top of that is the policy question of whether, if we decided we wanted a routing function, we would want that to be based on a closed source service from a commercial organisation. Obviously that is a policy decision for the Foundation but on the face of it I would tend to be opposed. Again I agree with Tom, I don't see the benefit to OSM of adding close source services. Even if they make the map better and make life better for mappers? What is the real difference between using a GPS unit with closed source software and using third party web services that are closed source to enhance core OSM software? Finally, even if we decided such a closed source commercial service was acceptable there are obviously specific questions when the source of that service is Cloudmade - the risk of such a decision being viewed in an unfavourable light by others when Cloudmade in general, and you and Steve in particular, are so closely linked to the project in general and the Foundation in particular is obviously quite large. Look at it this way - if we integrate this, what do we do when Frederik and Jochen come calling asking us to give their (hypothetical as far as I know) routing service equal space/prominence? Again I agree that as other have suggested if we did want a routing service on the OSM site it should not be restrictive to any one service provider. Again - definitely agree with this on the grounds that creating competition within third party developers will lead to better apps for OSM. At the end of the day, these are policy matters for the Foundation, but as things stand my advice to them would be along the lines described above. The Foundation and the OSM contributor base need to debate what meets the current aims of the project and where there are gaps in meeting those aims. We might also debate whether the current aims are appropriate or if the community wants to change them. I'll bring this up at our next OSMF Board meeting. It could be a good idea to get input from the community on their appreciation of the aims of OSM to help with this. We should also go far wider than the small section of the community who are on the mailing list to make sure we're getting a true feel for people's opinions. Cheers Andy -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
I've had quite a few off-list emails from different people asking for more details about this service, so I want to clarify a few things. In December 2008 the OSM-F Board discussed an offer from CloudMade to use their routing and geocoding services on the OSM site, free of charge. We discussed this as a Board and unanimously agreed that any third party services to be used on OSM.org should be offered to the community to make a decision about. The current sandbox implementation and patch is just that - a working demonstration of a service that the community is able to accept and have integrated onto the OSM site, reject or make changes to. There is nothing stopping anyone taking the UI that has been offered and tying that into any other routing service. Cheers, 2009/4/29 Nick Black nickbla...@gmail.com 2009/4/29 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com Tom Hughes wrote: Sent: 29 April 2009 8:41 AM To: Nick Black Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. Nick Black wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu mailto:t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? My personal views inline below Well there are several reasons which would make me disinclined to integrate it, so I at least would need some persuasion. First up is the general question of whether we want a routing function on the site - it has been said repeatedly in the past that our aim is to provide the data and let other people innovate with it. This sort of things is just another step to making the site a full featured Google Maps clone where doing all the data presentation as well as the production. This is a position which I believe Steve has advocated on a number of occasions in the past. Agree with Tom here. OSM is about data collection and storage.Our tools on the main website should be focused on that. I can argue that all the current tools are useful for contribution in some way. Routing is also useful if its configured to help find errors, ie to test if the data is accurate in terms of routing, However this capability would be better integrated into editing software. Completely agree that this functionality would be best integrated into editing software, but OSM has always taken a one step at a time approach. I see this as the first step toward the editing tools supporting better validation of roads for routing. On top of that is the policy question of whether, if we decided we wanted a routing function, we would want that to be based on a closed source service from a commercial organisation. Obviously that is a policy decision for the Foundation but on the face of it I would tend to be opposed. Again I agree with Tom, I don't see the benefit to OSM of adding close source services. Even if they make the map better and make life better for mappers? What is the real difference between using a GPS unit with closed source software and using third party web services that are closed source to enhance core OSM software? Finally, even if we decided such a closed source commercial service was acceptable there are obviously specific questions when the source of that service is Cloudmade - the risk of such a decision being viewed in an unfavourable light by others when Cloudmade in general, and you and Steve in particular, are so closely linked to the project in general and the Foundation in particular is obviously quite large. Look at it this way - if we integrate this, what do we do when Frederik and Jochen come calling asking us to give their (hypothetical as far as I know) routing service equal space/prominence? Again I agree that as other have suggested if we did want a routing service on the OSM site it should not be restrictive to any one service provider. Again - definitely agree with this on the grounds that creating competition within third party developers will lead to better apps for OSM. At the end of the day, these are policy matters for the Foundation, but as things stand my advice to them would be along the lines described above. The Foundation and the OSM contributor base need to debate what meets the current aims of the project and where there are gaps in meeting those aims. We might also debate whether the current aims are appropriate or if the community wants to change them. I'll bring this up at our next OSMF Board meeting. It could be a good idea to get input from the community on their appreciation of the aims of OSM to help with this. We should also go
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Nick Black wrote: To your point about integrating other people's services, I think its clear. Whatever the best service available is should be used. Best is in the eye of the beholder. Subject to minimum quality standards (no long outages, results not completely bogus) and a common API, we should let the user choose between available services. I could in theory code a routing service that was better than CM's for validating the type of mapping I tend to do (i.e. long cycle routes) but less useful for housing estates. It's exactly the same as with the map layers. I think (awaits flames) that Steve Chilton's Mapnik layer is the best OSM cartography there is at present, and if you apply commonly-accepted cartographic standards than that's probably not just opinion, it's objective truth. But we don't refuse to offer other layers (e.g. Osmarender) because this is the single best; we have the OL layer chooser. In fact, offering a routing chooser might even encourage the development of more routing applications, and that has to be good. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Cloudmade-routing-for-OSM-rails_port-site.-tp23251791p23294656.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
2009/4/29 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Nick Black wrote: To your point about integrating other people's services, I think its clear. Whatever the best service available is should be used. Best is in the eye of the beholder. Subject to minimum quality standards (no long outages, results not completely bogus) and a common API, we should let the user choose between available services. I could in theory code a routing service that was better than CM's for validating the type of mapping I tend to do (i.e. long cycle routes) but less useful for housing estates. It's exactly the same as with the map layers. I think (awaits flames) that Steve Chilton's Mapnik layer is the best OSM cartography there is at present, and if you apply commonly-accepted cartographic standards than that's probably not just opinion, it's objective truth. Doesn't have contour lines though does it? I know what the best layer _really_ is :-) Dave ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Hi, Nick Black wrote: The pragmatic argument would be to use routing generated from non-open source server software along side other open source alternatives and let the user base choose which best meets their needs. *If* our user base thinks that routing is a need they want met by the OpenStreetMap site, which is something that should be discussed. Personally I think that routing has good value for OSM debugging, but we would not put routing on our front page for that; instead we would have a special routing application for mappers that can use several routing services and allows users to record problems they found. Definitely a worthy tool to develop but nothing for the main page. The main page is not a tool for mappers, it is more of a showcase, and the question remains whether we want to showcase third-party services through it. I don't totally follow the argument about this specific example being more risky because its provided by CloudMade because a lot of people who work for CloudMade are deeply involved with OSM. Again, we need to take a pragmatic standpoint and figure out what's more important for OSM. I think there is no problem as long as the CloudMade services we use are balanced by other free and non-free solutions offered at the same time, with no special selection or preference expressed for the CloudMade services (as in select one from the following 5 routing services). Bye Frederik ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Dave Stubbs wrote: Doesn't have contour lines though does it? I know what the best layer _really_ is :-) Heh. But you're absolutely right and that's the point; one man's best is not necessarily any use at all for someone else. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Cloudmade-routing-for-OSM-rails_port-site.-tp23251791p23294890.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
2009/4/29 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: *If* our user base thinks that routing is a need they want met by the OpenStreetMap site, which is something that should be discussed. There's another angle to consider here - we don't just need to cater for our existing user-base (who are probably quite a resourceful bunch). One of the reasons we have a site with a slippy map on it is that it demonstrates to those unfamiliar to the project what OpenStreetMap is capable of. That our slippy map closely resembles those of Google, Yahoo and others helps to get around any scepticism that might arise. This is why it is, IMHO, important that the map be draggable rather than click-the-edge-to-pan-and-reload. AJAX-powered maps are considered a baseline user requirement. Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. Bye Frederik *) And add in fine print if you're willing to devote a few man-months to get to grips with the finer details of Ruby, PHP, Python, PostGIS, Mapnik and others -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
2009/4/29 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. Actually yes, I think I overstated my lack of caring where the routing comes from - let me restate my priorities thus: 1. That we should have at least one routing engine to show that our data will support that. 2. That we should have a selection of routing tools to demonstrate that the data are engine-agnostic. 3. That a good proportion of the engines we show off be sufficiently open to allow users to play with them or deploy them for their own needs. 4. That our headline routing engine be open. That is, whereas I have a preference for an open solution, so that people get used to the idea that such problems can be solved using open software, I personally wouldn't insist on it if (as I believe) we are selling ourselves short without any on-site visibility of routing tools. However, I can understand that others would put my priority 4 right up the top of the list. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/29 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. Actually yes, I think I overstated my lack of caring where the routing comes from - let me restate my priorities thus: 1. That we should have at least one routing engine to show that our data will support that. 2. That we should have a selection of routing tools to demonstrate that the data are engine-agnostic. 3. That a good proportion of the engines we show off be sufficiently open to allow users to play with them or deploy them for their own needs. 4. That our headline routing engine be open. That is, whereas I have a preference for an open solution, so that people get used to the idea that such problems can be solved using open software, I personally wouldn't insist on it if (as I believe) we are selling ourselves short without any on-site visibility of routing tools. I totally agree. +1 From me. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Марат Хасанов angedo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all! Let me introduce Routing for OSM! My name is Marat Khasanov and I’m working for CloudMade as Front-End developer. Few days ago I’ve already finished routing tool for OSM project. With this tool you can aOSdd your own routes between points on the map or search for shortest or fastest way by car, bicycle or walking. Current version is based on CM Routing API and interacts with the server over cross-domain JSON requests(similarly to data and search window). You can find possibility to try it here: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) The current algorithm doesn't take into account that roads with access=private or which have barriers on them with access private should be passed through, by default: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions?lat=44.42775lon=25.99423zoom=15layers=B000FTFTTtravel_mode=carwaypoints=25.98,44.43,26.01013,44.43377 And, as Maarten said, the Permalink is not precise enough, it should provide 5 decimals to be effective in locating a point. Another problem is that the default shortest route for cars should probably avoid tracks, or a shortest on paved roads algorithm should be provided. Problem visible here: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions?lat=44.3905lon=26.0228zoom=13layers=B000FTFTTtravel_mode=car/shortestwaypoints=25.99,44.41,25.99,44.38 Also, the fast and short route could be the same if the difference isn't noticiable like above, where both the fast and the short route are allegedly 4.7km long. Now it is easy to make your maps better and your mapping more effective finding not crossing roads or other lacks of existing maps. I appreciate community feedback and waiting till you review this functionality and attached patch. Marat. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- Regards, EddyP = Imagination is more important than knowledge A.Einstein ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site .
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:15:47 +0300, Eddy Petrișor eddy.petri...@gmail.com wrote: I meant shouldn't be passed through. An exception should be made if one of the ends is within the private area. So in other words, the cost of going through an access=private node or way should be way higher than a regular road so that the passing should occur only if absolutely necessary (e.g. must leave a private area or must reach a private area). Hint: Note that a very high cost also means that a huge number of roads that would never lead anywhere near the destination get evaluated in most routing-algorithms. The proper way would probably be to threat ways with access=destination as non-existent unless they contain the destination/start. However that crossing multiple such ways to get to the nearest or the optimal street that is generally available can be a small challenge in coding. That is, if the internal data-format supports such rules at all. So, access=destination is not as easy to implement as you may think. (Same way no one has yet implemented no_uturn turn-restrictions or turn-restrictions with more then 1 node or more then 0 ways in the via role.) Marcus ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Hi all! Let me introduce Routing for OSM! My name is Marat Khasanov and I’m working for CloudMade as Front-End developer. Few days ago I’ve already finished routing tool for OSM project. With this tool you can aOSdd your own routes between points on the map or search for shortest or fastest way by car, bicycle or walking. Current version is based on CM Routing API and interacts with the server over cross-domain JSON requests(similarly to data and search window). You can find possibility to try it here: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Patch is here: http://letitbit.net/download/f4a0795677/patch.zip.html Now it is easy to make your maps better and your mapping more effective finding not crossing roads or other lacks of existing maps. I appreciate community feedback and waiting till you review this functionality and attached patch. Marat. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Марат Хасанов wrote: You can find possibility to try it here: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Patch is here: http://letitbit.net/download/f4a0795677/patch.zip.html Unmodified Patch republished here: http://www.firefishy.com/tmp/patch.zip letitbit.net is beyond bad. It is also Not Work Safe. Regards Grant ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
íÁÒÁÔ èÁÓÁÎÏ× wrote: You can find possibility to try it here: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Looks very nice. Results I get back are within expected range (for longer routes at least). Just one thing: are you using the maxspeed tag? When I try some routes within town limits I get unusually fast routes. Problem is that I can't make too long routes, but a length of 3.9 km in 3 min while crossing 6 roundabouts is too fast. Even if you take 1 minute extra for rounding errors it is well above the maxspeed tag of 50. And I see that the coordinates in the permalink are not significant enough. See my test route, http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions?lat=51.3271lon=5.988zoom=14layers=B000FTFTTtravel_mode=carwaypoints=5.9736448,51.3389468,6.0023605,51.3201158 which results in a permalink of http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions?lat=51.3271lon=5.988zoom=14layers=B000FTFTTtravel_mode=carwaypoints=5.97,51.34,6,51.32 which is way off, especially at point A (and it can't calculate a route for that link). Regards, Maarten ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? Chris ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen chris66...@gmx.de wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? That's what we're looking for feedback on - what do you think? Cheers, Andy (I work for CloudMade) ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Is OSM actually looking for getting a route planner on it's main website? If so, the I happen to know a project that does webbased routing and is completely OS... but the interface and routing engine could use more work. So if the source code of Cloudmade's routing website is OS and the routing engine is OS as well, then I'm all for it. Andy Allan wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen chris66...@gmx.de wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? That's what we're looking for feedback on - what do you think? Cheers, Andy (I work for CloudMade) ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site .
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:57:17 +0100, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen chris66...@gmx.de wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? That's what we're looking for feedback on - what do you think? Well, where is the sourcecode for the Cloudmade routing-service? Marcus ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Andy Allan wrote: That's what we're looking for feedback on - what do you think? Assuming we're not going to host an open-source routing service on an OSM box (which we're not unless someone supplies the box and volunteers to maintain it, I guess), we'd need to do the Different routing services are available thing - and the precedent is that we'd do it in a similar way to the tile source selection. Very very roughly, that might involve replacing the car/walk/cycle selector with a drop-down menu: - Albert's Routing Service - CloudMade (bicycle) - CloudMade (car) - CloudMade (walking) - OpenRouteService - YOURS - Zarquon Bicycle Directions ...assuming that all these services had a common API for such requests. But IMO any effort in this area would be best devoted to fixing Namefinder. A decent namefinder is a prerequisite of a routing service anyway. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Cloudmade-routing-for-OSM-rails_port-site.-tp23251791p23255521.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
No doubt CM and other candidates would volunteer to maintain the box. I would anyway, but providing a box is too much. Namefinder is at times, let's say, troublesome but only a small part of the whole routing process and therefore doesn't stop usage and development of a routing service if it's not perfect. Richard Fairhurst wrote: Andy Allan wrote: That's what we're looking for feedback on - what do you think? Assuming we're not going to host an open-source routing service on an OSM box (which we're not unless someone supplies the box and volunteers to maintain it, I guess), we'd need to do the Different routing services are available thing - and the precedent is that we'd do it in a similar way to the tile source selection. Very very roughly, that might involve replacing the car/walk/cycle selector with a drop-down menu: - Albert's Routing Service - CloudMade (bicycle) - CloudMade (car) - CloudMade (walking) - OpenRouteService - YOURS - Zarquon Bicycle Directions ...assuming that all these services had a common API for such requests. But IMO any effort in this area would be best devoted to fixing Namefinder. A decent namefinder is a prerequisite of a routing service anyway. cheers Richard ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
Which one you know? The interface can be taken from CloudMade. The interface is opensource. The service is not. Cheers, Igor 2009/4/27 Lambertus o...@na1400.info Is OSM actually looking for getting a route planner on it's main website? If so, the I happen to know a project that does webbased routing and is completely OS... but the interface and routing engine could use more work. So if the source code of Cloudmade's routing website is OS and the routing engine is OS as well, then I'm all for it. Andy Allan wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen chris66...@gmx.de wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? That's what we're looking for feedback on - what do you think? Cheers, Andy (I work for CloudMade) ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
I'm the author of YOURS: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/YOURS The code of YOURS is in SVN: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/routing/yours/branches/version-1.0 Igor Shubovych wrote: Which one you know? The interface can be taken from CloudMade. The interface is opensource. The service is not. Cheers, Igor 2009/4/27 Lambertus o...@na1400.info mailto:o...@na1400.info Is OSM actually looking for getting a route planner on it's main website? If so, the I happen to know a project that does webbased routing and is completely OS... but the interface and routing engine could use more work. So if the source code of Cloudmade's routing website is OS and the routing engine is OS as well, then I'm all for it. Andy Allan wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris-Hein Lunkhusen chris66...@gmx.de mailto:chris66...@gmx.de wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org site ? That's what we're looking for feedback on - what do you think? Cheers, Andy (I work for CloudMade) ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org mailto:dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org mailto:dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
