[racket-dev] Nightly builds

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
The OS X x86_64 machine for the nightly builds is still down, which is why there were no nightly builds for a while. To get things updated, I made a build without that architecture, which is now available. (Hopefully there will be some replacement machine to continue as usual soon.) --

Re: [racket-dev] Download link

2011-08-13 Thread Neil Van Dyke
Eli Barzilay wrote at 08/13/2011 09:39 PM: Also: it needs to work when there's no JS. Currently, this is done by listing all the platform installers in a list -- not pretty, but this is an exceptional case. I don't understand this part. If this page's HTML is generated on-demand, then the

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Stephen Bloch
On Aug 13, 2011, at 8:52 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: "They [...] were presented 5 different options for downloading DrRacket for Mac". Yes, but was one of them clearly distinguished from the rest, to indicate "this is probably what you want"? Yes, by being the first -- which is the same as thin

[racket-dev] Download link

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
10 minutes ago, Matthew Flatt wrote: > I'd like to renew the suggestion that Guillaume works out a concrete > plan and we take it from there. I'll be happy for a better layout. (Just as long as it's not a search+replace of the FF download...) And something else that I forgot to mention: the ques

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Robby Findler
Yes, please. Robby On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Matthew Flatt wrote: > I'd like to renew the suggestion that Guillaume works out a concrete > plan and we take it from there. > > _ >  For list-related administrative tasks: >  http://lists.racket

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Matthew Flatt
I'd like to renew the suggestion that Guillaume works out a concrete plan and we take it from there. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
6 minutes ago, Stephen Bloch wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2011, at 8:31 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > > >>> Because this whole thread started with someone who was confused > >>> by the > >>> existence of this selection. > >> > >> No, I think it was someone who was confused by the absence of an > >> easy,

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Stephen Bloch
On Aug 13, 2011, at 8:31 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: Because this whole thread started with someone who was confused by the existence of this selection. No, I think it was someone who was confused by the absence of an easy, almost-certainly-correct default. "They [...] were presented 5 differ

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
Four minutes ago, Stephen Bloch wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2011, at 7:52 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > > > 10 minutes ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: > >> Yes, but the grey means I'm unlikely to move my cursor over it in > >> the first place. Why grey it out at all? > > > > Because this whole thread st

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Stephen Bloch
On Aug 13, 2011, at 7:52 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: 10 minutes ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: Yes, but the grey means I'm unlikely to move my cursor over it in the first place. Why grey it out at all? Because this whole thread started with someone who was confused by the existence of this s

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
10 minutes ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: > > What I did for that is to change the color when focus moves in. > > Yes, but the grey means I'm unlikely to move my cursor over it in > the first place. Why grey it out at all? Because this whole thread started with someone who was confused by the

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
On firefox.com I was surprised to see that what I had always assumed was an image was actually just CSS magic. Why not just copy it? > What I did for that is to change the color when focus moves in. Yes, but the grey means I'm unlikely to move my cursor over it in the first place. Why grey it o

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Robby Findler
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > About a minute ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: >> Thanks for this. >> >> I really like the rounded-edge "Download" buttons that most software >> systems now have.  It seems odd to not have one for DrRacket.  (I >> brought this up some years

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
About a minute ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: > Thanks for this. > > I really like the rounded-edge "Download" buttons that most software > systems now have. It seems odd to not have one for DrRacket. (I > brought this up some years ago when these weren't quite so > prevalent; now they're ubi

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Thanks for this. I really like the rounded-edge "Download" buttons that most software systems now have. It seems odd to not have one for DrRacket. (I brought this up some years ago when these weren't quite so prevalent; now they're ubiquitous.) The grey of the Platform line makes it look like i

Re: [racket-dev] Downloading DrRacket for Mac is hard?

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
I've done some emphasizing of the download, and de-emphasized the platform selection: http://racket-lang.org/download/ -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! __

Re: [racket-dev] spam bug reports

2011-08-13 Thread Neil Van Dyke
Robby Findler wrote at 08/13/2011 06:06 PM: This is the PLaneT bug reports, not the drracket bug reports. I suspect that the Racket-knowledge captcha would be even more appropriate for PLaneT package bug reports than for general Racket bug reports. I think that requiring logins will disc

Re: [racket-dev] spam bug reports

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
About a minute ago, Robby Findler wrote: > This is the PLaneT bug reports, not the drracket bug reports. > > I'm loathe to restrict that to people that login, but maybe it is > time for that. You can use the same captcha that I used in the main bugs page. I can make the files accessible to plane

Re: [racket-dev] spam bug reports

2011-08-13 Thread Robby Findler
This is the PLaneT bug reports, not the drracket bug reports. I'm loathe to restrict that to people that login, but maybe it is time for that. Robby On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: > Captcha that requires a very tiny amount of Racket/Scheme/Lisp knowledge or > access to a

Re: [racket-dev] spam bug reports

2011-08-13 Thread Neil Van Dyke
Captcha that requires a very tiny amount of Racket/Scheme/Lisp knowledge or access to a working Racket/Scheme interpreter might work. Example challenges: (+ 1 2) (+ 1 (* 2 3)) (apply + (cons 1 (cons 2 '())) (string-append "x" "y") If spammers want to spend time on this, hey, maybe they'll get

Re: [racket-dev] spam bug reports

2011-08-13 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > Well, someone has figured out how to defeat the recaptcha thingy and > I'm now getting about (on average, ish) two spam bug reports per hour > for the last several days (and a slower, but still annoying rate for > several weeks before that).

[racket-dev] spam bug reports

2011-08-13 Thread Robby Findler
Well, someone has figured out how to defeat the recaptcha thingy and I'm now getting about (on average, ish) two spam bug reports per hour for the last several days (and a slower, but still annoying rate for several weeks before that). Any advice? (poking around the web suggests that captchas are

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
10 minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > Is this just an argument about how to name these syntax properties? Yes -- and that leads to more than "just the name". > If so, I'm happy with whatever you think I should name it. That > doesn't seem to get us anywhere on the other questions, tho

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
5 minutes ago, John Clements wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Carl Eastlund wrote: > > > How about instead of "in spirit", we focus on program logic. > > There is no semantic dependence on the typechecker -- Racket can > > tell what the program does without it. However, programmers > > ca

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Aug 13, 2011 2:13 PM, "Eli Barzilay" wrote: > > Two minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2011 1:35 PM, "Carl Eastlund" wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Matthias Felleisen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Carl Eastlund
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2011 1:35 PM, "Carl Eastlund" wrote: >> >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Matthias Felleisen >> wrote: >> > >> > On Aug 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> > >> >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Eli

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
Two minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > On Aug 13, 2011 1:35 PM, "Carl Eastlund" wrote: > > > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Matthias Felleisen > > wrote: > > > > > > On Aug 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > > > > >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Eli Barzilay >

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread John Clements
On Aug 13, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Carl Eastlund wrote: > On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Matthias Felleisen > wrote: >> >> On Aug 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: 10 minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > `m

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Aug 13, 2011 1:35 PM, "Carl Eastlund" wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Matthias Felleisen > wrote: > > > > On Aug 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > > >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > >>> 10 minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Carl Eastlund
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: >>> 10 minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: `match' also currently adds a syntax property to help the Typed >>

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Aug 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: >> 10 minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >>> `match' also currently adds a syntax property to help the Typed >>> Racket type checker understand the expansion. Like 'disappeared-

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > 10 minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> `match' also currently adds a syntax property to help the Typed >> Racket type checker understand the expansion.  Like 'disappeared-use >> for Check Syntax, this property is in theory semantically

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
10 minutes ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > `match' also currently adds a syntax property to help the Typed > Racket type checker understand the expansion. Like 'disappeared-use > for Check Syntax, this property is in theory semantically > independent of Typed Racket, but only used there. No, wh

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
`match' also currently adds a syntax property to help the Typed Racket type checker understand the expansion. Like 'disappeared-use for Check Syntax, this property is in theory semantically independent of Typed Racket, but only used there. And I agree with Robby that I think this is a good archit

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread John Clements
On Aug 13, 2011, at 11:33 AM, Robby Findler wrote: > FWIW, there is precedent for this kind of thing, namely the properties > that get added to syntax objects to tell check syntax about bindings > that aren't in the fully expanded program (and yeah, I know there is a > pending question about this

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
An hour ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > 1. The existence of Stepper knowledge in the Lazy compiler creates a >'spiritual' dependency between the Lazy language and a tool in >DrRacket (= Tool world). QUESTION: does this knowledge ever make >sense outside of our tool suite? Could it b

[racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Eli Barzilay
An hour ago, John Clements wrote: > > Adding dev to followups, hope that's okay with all three of you. > > On Aug 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > > > The stepper has some function that annotates syntaxes with a > > stepper specific value. Stephen wanted to use this function but > >

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Robby Findler
FWIW, there is precedent for this kind of thing, namely the properties that get added to syntax objects to tell check syntax about bindings that aren't in the fully expanded program (and yeah, I know there is a pending question about this; sorry I haven't had time to look into it and straighten thi

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Doesn't the same problem exist for other tools, such as the Tracer? _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Aug 13, 2011, at 10:44 AM, John Clements wrote: > That is, the code for lazy racket contains the knowledge about which things > should be hidden by the stepper. I would argue, in fact, that this is the > *right* place for such knowledge. In particular, suppose you're developing > the lazy

Re: [racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread John Clements
On Aug 13, 2011, at 10:44 AM, John Clements wrote: > > Adding dev to followups, hope that's okay with all three of you. > > On Aug 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > >> A few seconds ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: >>> >>> This sounds wrong. The only way there can be a dependency is v

[racket-dev] syntax-property guards? (was: Re: The Stepper strikes again)

2011-08-13 Thread John Clements
Adding dev to followups, hope that's okay with all three of you. On Aug 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > A few seconds ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: >> >> This sounds wrong. The only way there can be a dependency is via >> require. So how can it not be checkable, never mind copy or

Re: [racket-dev] Plot testing and feedback

2011-08-13 Thread Jay McCarthy
http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay/tmp/201108130832-new.zip Although there was an error running it On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Neil Toronto wrote: > Excellent - that helps a lot. > > Jay, I've pushed changes that set font size in "pixels" and calculate plot > margins using the actual sizes of t

Re: [racket-dev] Plot testing and feedback

2011-08-13 Thread Neil Toronto
On 08/13/2011 05:58 AM, Matthew Flatt wrote: The Mac's drawing layer equates drawing units and font point sizes, while the drawing layers for Windows and Unix try to adapt the to the screen resolution for the conversion of point-sizes to drawing-unit. For drawing pictures, it usually works bette

Re: [racket-dev] strange/wrong placement and sizing in racket/gui

2011-08-13 Thread Matthew Flatt
At Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:20:23 +0200, Marijn wrote: > On 06/21/11 09:50, Marijn wrote: > > On 06/20/11 18:29, Matthew Flatt wrote: > >> I think I've found the problem and pushed a fix. > > > > Thanks for the quick fix Matthew! 1) 2) and 3) are now working fine > > :) but I do believe borders are sti

Re: [racket-dev] Plot testing and feedback

2011-08-13 Thread Matthew Flatt
At Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:56:57 -0500, Robby Findler wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Neil Toronto wrote: > > Can I get a racket/gui expert's help on Jay's machine's output? There are > > two issues: > > > > 1. I have it render text with an 8 point font. On Jay's Mac, it's too small > > to b