Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-09 Thread Stephen De Gabrielle
Hi, can the text on the home page be changed from Racket is a programming language to Racket is the coolest programming language on earth. Spend a bit of time with it, and your programs will grow more beautiful in front of your eyes every day of your life. - M.F. Thanks, Stephen

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-07 Thread Eli Barzilay
Do you mean that it requires JS to work? What about non-JS browsers? (There are some people who find it important -- I've even made some changes to the front page to make it friendlier to text browsers.) On 2011-05-07, Noel Welsh noelwe...@gmail.com wrote: Sure does. We have a Javascript

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-07 Thread Noel Welsh
You have to contact the Myna server somehow to get suggestions. You can do this via the server or via the client, with the usual tradeoffs. I would go with the JS client as it's much faster to set up, and code the HTML in such a way that it still works if JS is disabled. (This is straightforward,

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-07 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
Right now, we're already using JS to decide which of the 3 initial code snippets to display. So, why not start with using Noel's tool for that, and go from there? We already have a built-in group of possibilities to measure, and we're already using JavaScript. As an aside, I suspect that

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-07 Thread Eli Barzilay
6 hours ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: Right now, we're already using JS to decide which of the 3 initial code snippets to display. We're using it for more -- to flip through the examples. Most of these browsers won't even use the CSS so things that should be hidden are not. So the change I

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Noel Welsh
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:31 AM, Justin Zamora jus...@zamora.com wrote: A sentence like that would be a good replacement for the awful, Racket is a programming language currently on the front page of racket-lang.org We are men of science; untested hypotheses do not become us. Luckily, your

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Stephen De Gabrielle
I assume it's not news that racket.org is owned by a museum curator in sweden? (He says after typing racket.org) S. On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Noel Welsh noelwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:31 AM, Justin Zamora jus...@zamora.com wrote: A sentence like that would be a

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Eduardo Bellani
Racket -- Squash your bugs with it! On 05/05/2011 01:26 PM, Rex Page wrote: Bugs in your programs? Racket can help. On Wed, 4 May 2011, Matthias Felleisen wrote: Racket is the coolest programming language on earth. Spend a bit of time with it, and your programs will grow more beautiful

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Jos Koot
-Original Message- From: dev-boun...@racket-lang.org [mailto:dev-boun...@racket-lang.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo Bellani snip -- Eduardo Bellani omnia mutantur, nihil interit. The word 'omnia' frequently leads to contradictions, particularly when applying a sentence containing

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Noel Welsh
In retrospect I think this post was a bit opaque. So, some exposition: We have a hypothesis: changing the description of Racket will increase adoption. We can measure this and optimise for it. The measure of adoption could be doesn't bounce or downloads Racket, for example. (Bouncing means

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Matthias Felleisen
For what time period should we leave the description constant to test this conjecture? On May 6, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Noel Welsh wrote: In retrospect I think this post was a bit opaque. So, some exposition: We have a hypothesis: changing the description of Racket will increase adoption.

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
The technology Noel is suggesting randomly chooses whether to give the current description, or some new description (which we would have to write). Then it measures which description leads more people to download Racket. On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Neil Van Dyke
Matthias Felleisen wrote at 05/06/2011 10:41 AM: For what time period should we leave the description constant to test this conjecture? Someone mathematically-inclined did something similar-sounding a decade(?) ago, for US national political campaign fund-raising. From what I could

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-06 Thread Eli Barzilay
An hour ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: The technology Noel is suggesting randomly chooses whether to give the current description, or some new description (which we would have to write). Then it measures which description leads more people to download Racket. The question is whether it

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-05 Thread Eli Barzilay
(FWIW, I don't have any strong issues with Java, but refering to the best parts of Java is asking to be made into a joke.) Yesterday, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: Justin is right other than the Java part. Eli is right with the amendment of -1 for the suggestion that Java has good parts worth

[racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-05 Thread Stephen De Gabrielle
AFAICT a lot of the appeal of Clojure is that it is lisp + jvm + java libraries, and the boosters already know what that is. For racket-lang there is a lot more to communicate. It's not a sensible comparison. S. On Thursday, May 5, 2011, Eli Barzilay  wrote: (FWIW, I don't have any strong

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-04 Thread D Herring
On 04/29/2011 12:10 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:31 AM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: Scheme is usually a liability when someone used it in school years ago (other than with HtDP). Sad. but true. Exacerbated by lecturers who refused to keep up with the world around

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-04 Thread Eli Barzilay
20 minutes ago, Justin Zamora wrote: On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 3:20 AM, D Herring dherr...@tentpost.com wrote: You might emphasize that Racket is a new language, borrowing the best parts of Scheme (and other languages?) and extending it with these features... A sentence like that would be a

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-04 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
Justin is right other than the Java part. Eli is right with the amendment of -1 for the suggestion that Java has good parts worth borrowing. (-: On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: 20 minutes ago, Justin Zamora wrote: On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 3:20 AM, D Herring

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-04 Thread Matthias Felleisen
Racket is the coolest programming language on earth. Spend a bit of time with it, and your programs will grow more beautiful in front of your eyes every day of your life. _ For list-related administrative tasks:

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-05-04 Thread Brian Mastenbrook
On 05/01/2011 02:20 AM, D Herring wrote: Also collect a set of cool programs for people to use. It is easier for people to understand this was implemented in Racket than Racket's features might let me make that. Many people make decisions based on first impressions. When I was an undergrad, I

[racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread John Clements
This is just one random guy, but it's interesting to see how Racket is perceived. Excerpts from a conversation on stackoverflow about Racket: Thanks. And that's why I'm starting to learn to dislike Scheme, despite everything else. – MCXXIII yesterday In that case, it's a good thing

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread David Vanderson
What's the benefit of using regexp-match instead of port-string ? Thanks, Dave On 04/29/2011 07:23 AM, John Clements wrote: This is just one random guy, but it's interesting to see how Racket is perceived. Excerpts from a conversation on stackoverflow about Racket: Thanks. And

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Neil Van Dyke
The Web is full of outdated and/or ill-informed references to PLT and Racket. People see these, and the bad information propagates memetically -- perpetuating and increasing. One thing Racket people could do is a one-time blitz of existing bad info all over the Web, to correct as many of

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Matthias Felleisen
Thanks John for the report. Two questions please: 1. Could you point me to a standards document for Clojure? 2. Could you point me to a criteria that classify Racket as a 'fringe' language and Clojure as a non-fringe language? -- Matthias On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:23 AM, John Clements

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:31 AM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: Scheme is usually a liability when someone used it in school years ago (other than with HtDP). Sad. Thanks for the idea. -- Matthias _ For list-related administrative tasks:

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Danny Yoo
 Scheme is usually a liability when someone used it in school years ago (other than with HtDP). Small anecdote: I had gone a small presentation at WPI about teaching alternative concurrent programming models to undergraduates. The presenter wanted to explore teaching with channels and actors.

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Apr 29, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Danny Yoo wrote: Scheme is usually a liability when someone used it in school years ago (other than with HtDP). Small anecdote: I had gone a small presentation at WPI about teaching alternative concurrent programming models to undergraduates. The presenter

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Eli Barzilay
8 minutes ago, Danny Yoo wrote:  Scheme is usually a liability when someone used it in school  years ago (other than with HtDP). Small anecdote: I had gone a small presentation at WPI about teaching alternative concurrent programming models to undergraduates. The presenter wanted to

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Stephen Bloch
The last chapter of _Picturing Programs_ is entitled Next Steps. It mentions HtDP, HtDP2e, HtDW, HtDC, and a list of advanced Racket topics: the Web server, modules, racket/contract, classes, macros, stand-alone executables, and GUI and graphics libraries. Most of these topics (not to mention

Re: [racket-dev] racket vs. scheme vs. clojure (as it appears to others)

2011-04-29 Thread Joe Marshall
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: 2. Could you point me to a criteria that classify Racket as a 'fringe' language and Clojure as a non-fringe language? This is no criterion, but it is suggestive: