Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-06-03 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Nick Lamb wrote: > On Friday, 3 June 2016 17:25:11 UTC+1, Peter Kurrasch wrote: > > Regarding use of the term "bad", what does anyone think about this as an > alternative: "furtherance of criminal activity" > > As far as I'm aware all of the following are examples

Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-06-03 Thread Nick Lamb
On Friday, 3 June 2016 17:25:11 UTC+1, Peter Kurrasch wrote: > Regarding use of the term "bad", what does anyone think about this as an > alternative: "furtherance of criminal activity" As far as I'm aware all of the following are examples of criminal activity: Gambling (in some but not all of

Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-06-03 Thread Peter Kurrasch
I wasn't intending to get into a broader discussion about the merits of encryption. My initial point was two-fold: First, that there are a lot of different scenarios to consider--too many, in fact. Second, that a "good" cert could be used for any of those bad things, although the use of certs is

Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-05-26 Thread Ryan Sleevi
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 1:58 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > What has encryption got to do with it? The "bad" raised was unrelated to certificates, publicly trusted or otherwise. As Nick also pointed out, a number of the "bad" is just as accomplish through other means independent of certificate

Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-05-26 Thread Peter Kurrasch
You are right to point out that many of those scenarios could be accomplished with a self-signed cert or indeed no cert at all. The decision to use a good cert or the likelihood of a good cert being used in any given scenario is not necessarily that important. What matters is that once we find a

Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-05-26 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Ryan Sleevi wrote: > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:40 AM, Peter Kurrasch wrote: > > My suggestion is to frame the issue‎ as: What is reasonable to expect of > a > > CA if somebody sees bad stuff going on? How should CA's be notified? What > > sort of a response is w

Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-05-26 Thread Nick Lamb
On Thursday, 26 May 2016 15:40:35 UTC+1, Peter Kurrasch wrote: > I might use a perfectly good cert in a "bad" way: Maybe it's worthwhile to consider what happens instead if we live under a regime (whether legally enforced or just de facto because of choices made by browser vendors) where you ca

Re: When good certs do bad things

2016-05-26 Thread Ryan Sleevi
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:40 AM, Peter Kurrasch wrote: > My suggestion is to frame the issue‎ as: What is reasonable to expect of a > CA if somebody sees bad stuff going on? How should CA's be notified? What > sort of a response is warranted and in what timeframe? What guidelines > should CA's use

When good certs do bad things

2016-05-26 Thread Peter Kurrasch
It strikes me that some people might not have a good idea how people use certs to do bad things. As the token bad guy in this forum I'll take it upon myself to share some examples of how I might use a perfectly good cert in a "bad" way:‎* ‎Create a phishing site to harvest login credentials from u