RE: Apache proxy engineering specs
OK, So if a proxy connect is used it then creates a stateful connection from client through proxy to server and get the ACK back from the backend/server and not the proxy? OR We can start by simply asking do apachie proxies in their standard setup or install send ACK back to requesting client or does it just pass that information (request) to the server and the client receives ACK from server and NOT the proxy? Thank you, Dan Daniel P. Shaw Triad Financial Pro-Tem Contractor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ext: 25106 Ph: 714-799-5106 Start Date: 08-13-2007 -Original Message- From: William A. Rowe, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:59 PM To: dev@httpd.apache.org Cc: Minato, Rick Subject: Re: Apache proxy engineering specs Shaw, Dan wrote: 1. Does a apache proxy server create stateful or stateless connection upon request? It might help to clarify right off that RFC 2616 defines HTTP/1.1 and prior as stateless protocols. So the answer is no, any aggregation is an illusion. For stateful proxied connections it is necessary to use proxy CONNECT method from the client to the back end. Bill
RE: Apache proxy engineering specs
On Mon, September 10, 2007 4:57 pm, Shaw, Dan wrote: So if a proxy connect is used it then creates a stateful connection from client through proxy to server and get the ACK back from the backend/server and not the proxy? OR We can start by simply asking do apachie proxies in their standard setup or install send ACK back to requesting client or does it just pass that information (request) to the server and the client receives ACK from server and NOT the proxy? Can you explain in more detail exactly what you're trying to do? At the moment you're discussing things in a theoretical context, and it is difficult to nail down anything specific. Can you describe in more detail what the client is, and what the server is, and what exactly this combination is supposed to do? Regards, Graham --
Re: Apache proxy engineering specs
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: Shaw, Dan wrote: 1. Does a apache proxy server create stateful or stateless connection upon request? It might help to clarify right off that RFC 2616 defines HTTP/1.1 and prior as stateless protocols. Dan, maybe you mean persistent rather than stateful? At least for the reverse proxy setup, which I believe is what you're considering, mod_proxy does implement persistent connections to the server, if configured to do so. Search for smax on the mod_proxy documentation page. In fact I've found the connections to be rather too persistent in some cases (see my messages in the mod_proxy: is smax=0 allowed thread). 2. On the transport layer does the proxy server stream data or send ACK back to originating request and then continue with sending request from proxy to end server/point? I believe that it streams the data with a buffer size set by the ProxyIOBufferSize directive. Or something like that. But I have a vague recollection that there is some sort of issue with the content-length header, i.e. you don't know what it should say until all the data has been sent. Regards, Phil.
RE: Apache proxy engineering specs
Sure, We are going to be implementing BizTalk and BizTalk guaranties delivery of messages per their application. One of the first layers is the transport layer BizTalk listens to for ACK(s) and if the ACK(s) come from the proxy server then we will get a false positive and the connection closes. I did get a reply from another apache DEV and they indicate that I maybe looking for persistent and stateful. OK that is fine but the very first thing I need to know is if a proxy server responds with ACK(s) from requesting clients. We believe the proxy server does not respond with ACK from a client and it passes the data onto the server in which the server responds with ACK and then connection is closed. But again this is a guess just based on out research hence out question out to the dev apache arena. Let me know if you need additional information I will send it. Cheers, Dan Daniel P. Shaw Triad Financial Pro-Tem Contractor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ext: 25106 Ph: 714-799-5106 Start Date: 08-13-2007 -Original Message- From: Graham Leggett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:15 AM To: dev@httpd.apache.org Cc: dev@httpd.apache.org; Minato, Rick; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Apache proxy engineering specs On Mon, September 10, 2007 4:57 pm, Shaw, Dan wrote: So if a proxy connect is used it then creates a stateful connection from client through proxy to server and get the ACK back from the backend/server and not the proxy? OR We can start by simply asking do apachie proxies in their standard setup or install send ACK back to requesting client or does it just pass that information (request) to the server and the client receives ACK from server and NOT the proxy? Can you explain in more detail exactly what you're trying to do? At the moment you're discussing things in a theoretical context, and it is difficult to nail down anything specific. Can you describe in more detail what the client is, and what the server is, and what exactly this combination is supposed to do? Regards, Graham --
Re: Apache proxy engineering specs
On Sep 10, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Shaw, Dan wrote: Sure, We are going to be implementing BizTalk and BizTalk guaranties delivery of messages per their application. One of the first layers is the transport layer BizTalk listens to for ACK(s) and if the ACK(s) come from the proxy server then we will get a false positive and the connection closes. I did get a reply from another apache DEV and they indicate that I maybe looking for persistent and stateful. OK that is fine but the very first thing I need to know is if a proxy server responds with ACK(s) from requesting clients. We believe the proxy server does not respond with ACK from a client and it passes the data onto the server in which the server responds with ACK and then connection is closed. But again this is a guess just based on out research hence out question out to the dev apache arena. Let me know if you need additional information I will send it. By ACK, I'm guessing you mean at the tcp/ip layer??
RE: Apache proxy engineering specs
Yes, that is correct TCP/IP transport layer. Thanks, Dan Daniel P. Shaw Triad Financial Pro-Tem Contractor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ext: 25106 Ph: 714-799-5106 Start Date: 08-13-2007 -Original Message- From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:46 AM To: dev@httpd.apache.org Cc: Minato, Rick; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Apache proxy engineering specs On Sep 10, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Shaw, Dan wrote: Sure, We are going to be implementing BizTalk and BizTalk guaranties delivery of messages per their application. One of the first layers is the transport layer BizTalk listens to for ACK(s) and if the ACK(s) come from the proxy server then we will get a false positive and the connection closes. I did get a reply from another apache DEV and they indicate that I maybe looking for persistent and stateful. OK that is fine but the very first thing I need to know is if a proxy server responds with ACK(s) from requesting clients. We believe the proxy server does not respond with ACK from a client and it passes the data onto the server in which the server responds with ACK and then connection is closed. But again this is a guess just based on out research hence out question out to the dev apache arena. Let me know if you need additional information I will send it. By ACK, I'm guessing you mean at the tcp/ip layer??
Re: Apache proxy engineering specs
In that case, I think we can answer your question... As you know, HTTP operates above tcp/ip which means that there is the normal tcp/ip handshaking and flow between the client and Apache, whether Apache is itself handling the request or if it is a proxy for another server. Apache simply takes the request that comes in from the client and then passes that through to the backend, pretending to be a client, if you catch my drift. If you were to sniff the traffic between the client and Apache, you would not be able to tell, at the tcp/ip layer, whether Apache would be operating as a proxy or not. On Sep 10, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Shaw, Dan wrote: Yes, that is correct TCP/IP transport layer. Thanks, Dan Daniel P. Shaw Triad Financial Pro-Tem Contractor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ext: 25106 Ph: 714-799-5106 Start Date: 08-13-2007 -Original Message- From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:46 AM To: dev@httpd.apache.org Cc: Minato, Rick; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Apache proxy engineering specs On Sep 10, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Shaw, Dan wrote: Sure, We are going to be implementing BizTalk and BizTalk guaranties delivery of messages per their application. One of the first layers is the transport layer BizTalk listens to for ACK(s) and if the ACK(s) come from the proxy server then we will get a false positive and the connection closes. I did get a reply from another apache DEV and they indicate that I maybe looking for persistent and stateful. OK that is fine but the very first thing I need to know is if a proxy server responds with ACK(s) from requesting clients. We believe the proxy server does not respond with ACK from a client and it passes the data onto the server in which the server responds with ACK and then connection is closed. But again this is a guess just based on out research hence out question out to the dev apache arena. Let me know if you need additional information I will send it. By ACK, I'm guessing you mean at the tcp/ip layer??
Re: Apache proxy engineering specs
Shaw, Dan wrote: 1. Does a apache proxy server create stateful or stateless connection upon request? It might help to clarify right off that RFC 2616 defines HTTP/1.1 and prior as stateless protocols. So the answer is no, any aggregation is an illusion. For stateful proxied connections it is necessary to use proxy CONNECT method from the client to the back end. Bill
