Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Geertjan Wielenga]

As stated, I am now going to open a VOTE thread, since we have had some
discussion now on this topic, in this thread, as well as in various others,
and everyone has had a chance to comment on our becoming a top level
project and there appears to be consensus around this. However, a VOTE
thread is needed to finalize this -- and I am now going to put together
that VOTE thread.

Gj

On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 2:46 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019, 11:23 Geertjan Wielenga,
>  wrote:
>
> > Hope I got it right, Neil. If so, I like it!
> >
>
> Pretty much, yes. As one of those  involved in the thread that brought up
> the idea of time-based quarterly releases I do feel a tiny twinge of guilt
> when we use it as a stick to beat ourselves with! :-) That thread had some
> good ideas from various people on how we might implement it and what might
> need to change. And there are lots of other projects doing it, including
> here at Apache, we could take a look at. It all came to mind again this
> morning while catching up on the release process.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Neil C Smith]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019, 11:23 Geertjan Wielenga,
 wrote:

> Hope I got it right, Neil. If so, I like it!
>

Pretty much, yes. As one of those  involved in the thread that brought up
the idea of time-based quarterly releases I do feel a tiny twinge of guilt
when we use it as a stick to beat ourselves with! :-) That thread had some
good ideas from various people on how we might implement it and what might
need to change. And there are lots of other projects doing it, including
here at Apache, we could take a look at. It all came to mind again this
morning while catching up on the release process.

Best wishes,

Neil

>

Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Neil C Smith]

Hi,

Slowly catching up on emails having been busy with some consultancy
work the last month ... this still bothers me and feels like a fudge
that needs addressing ...

On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 at 16:27, Laszlo Kishalmi  wrote:
> I'm not sure, that I'm answering your question, though besides major
> versions we are planning to have a major version every 6 months with an
> optional minor release 3 months away from the major one. Previously we
> tried to make a release in every 3 months, though we think that's
> stretching our resources.

Are we doing time-based releases or feature-based releases?

The original time-based release proposal thread, from where the fixed
cycle / 3-months came from, was based on having fixed-in-advance dates
from freeze to release, keeping master releaseable, Jan (I think?)
suggested fixed merge windows and keeping cherry-picking minimal, etc.
It was about releasing quickly whatever was ready in master at a point
in time.

Having a tick-tock release cycle, or publicising features in advance
before they're releaseable in master, seems to be very distinctly
different from doing that?  If we're saying that NB12 will contain X,
and X is not ready in time, what actually would happen - delay NB12 or
ship major feature X in NB12.1?!

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[David Green]

Thanks Laszlo,

OK, numbering approach is “normal” for major releases and are not 
every release (at least as planned going forward.)  That should provide 
more stability although I understand with the present migration of both 
NetBeans and the Java parts — changes are going to be the rule for a 
while.


On 7 Mar 2019, at 10:27, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:


Dear Dave,

I'm not sure, that I'm answering your question, though besides major 
versions we are planning to have a major version every 6 months with 
an optional minor release 3 months away from the major one. Previously 
we tried to make a release in every 3 months, though we think that's 
stretching our resources.


The main theme of version 11.0 would be: Java 12 language support, 
Java Enterprise Support and Gradle Support


As I see now for 11.1: Java EE or Jakarta EE 8.0 support and probably 
Gradle Support for Java/Jakarta EE projects as well as bugfixes.


The version number scheme we follow for the releases is 
. , just we did not have a minor version for a while.


On 3/7/19 7:20 AM, David Green wrote:

Also on QU40


**YES**.

Each release contains a “What’s new” on the website containing 
the release notes (extracted for JIRA), for example, [here for 
Apache NetBeans 
10](). The 
project aims to make no backward incompatible changes within a given 
major version.


Now that the numbering is moving the primary digit (from 9 to 10 to 
11 …) every 3-6 months,  does this top number still convey major 
version information or is that something (major version) that is 
declared in the product announcement?


Great job on the document!

Dave


On 7 Mar 2019, at 5:46, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:


For the current release, here:

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb100/index.html

For each release there is such a page listing features.

Gj

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 12:37 PM Mr_Krava 


wrote:

 Just looking at QU40.Where is the "Whats new" requirement we have 
said is

in each release?

CheersBrian
CUNKA


    On Thursday, 7 March 2019, 9:59:18 pm AEDT, Geertjan 
Wielenga

 wrote:

 Hi all,

We've discussed this in various ways before, but let's try to 
hammer down
what needs to be done and whether we agree that as a project we're 
ready to

go ahead and vote on becoming a top level Apache project.

We're working together well as a community, we have done two 
complete
releases in the incubator and are working on the third, and though 
the

donation from Oracle to Apache is not yet complete, that is not a
precondition for Apache NetBeans becoming a top level project -- 
i.e.,
there are going to be more donations from Oracle to Apache whether 
or not
NetBeans is a top level project. In addition, we have been voting 
on a PMC

chair and that is going well too.

Maturity assessment is here:


https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans

Plus, our mentors have been asking us to graduate and we have been
promising to do that, and wanting to do it, but let's now actually 
go ahead

and do it.

*NOTE: This is not a VOTE thread. Therefore, do not respond with a 
+1,
please. Instead, this is a discussion thread to illicit some 
discussion,
points of view, etc, before actually doing the VOTE thread. Rather 
than
getting a -1 in the VOTE thread, let's get any issues out in the 
open and

handle those before actually starting the VOTE thread.*

I will start a VOTE thread here on the dev mailing list at the 
beginning of
next week, after which the IPMC vote will be done on this, assuming 
it
passes. Until then, please respond with your thoughts on this 
topic,

concerns, etc.

Thanks,

Gj



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Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Laszlo Kishalmi]

Dear Dave,

I'm not sure, that I'm answering your question, though besides major 
versions we are planning to have a major version every 6 months with an 
optional minor release 3 months away from the major one. Previously we 
tried to make a release in every 3 months, though we think that's 
stretching our resources.


The main theme of version 11.0 would be: Java 12 language support, Java 
Enterprise Support and Gradle Support


As I see now for 11.1: Java EE or Jakarta EE 8.0 support and probably 
Gradle Support for Java/Jakarta EE projects as well as bugfixes.


The version number scheme we follow for the releases is . 
, just we did not have a minor version for a while.


On 3/7/19 7:20 AM, David Green wrote:

Also on QU40


**YES**.

Each release contains a “What’s new” on the website containing the 
release notes (extracted for JIRA), for example, [here for Apache 
NetBeans 
10](). The 
project aims to make no backward incompatible changes within a given 
major version.


Now that the numbering is moving the primary digit (from 9 to 10 to 11 
…) every 3-6 months,  does this top number still convey major version 
information or is that something (major version) that is declared in 
the product announcement?


Great job on the document!

Dave


On 7 Mar 2019, at 5:46, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:


For the current release, here:

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb100/index.html

For each release there is such a page listing features.

Gj

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 12:37 PM Mr_Krava 
wrote:

 Just looking at QU40.Where is the "Whats new" requirement we have 
said is

in each release?

CheersBrian
CUNKA


    On Thursday, 7 March 2019, 9:59:18 pm AEDT, Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

 Hi all,

We've discussed this in various ways before, but let's try to hammer 
down
what needs to be done and whether we agree that as a project we're 
ready to

go ahead and vote on becoming a top level Apache project.

We're working together well as a community, we have done two complete
releases in the incubator and are working on the third, and though the
donation from Oracle to Apache is not yet complete, that is not a
precondition for Apache NetBeans becoming a top level project -- i.e.,
there are going to be more donations from Oracle to Apache whether 
or not
NetBeans is a top level project. In addition, we have been voting on 
a PMC

chair and that is going well too.

Maturity assessment is here:


https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans 



Plus, our mentors have been asking us to graduate and we have been
promising to do that, and wanting to do it, but let's now actually 
go ahead

and do it.

*NOTE: This is not a VOTE thread. Therefore, do not respond with a +1,
please. Instead, this is a discussion thread to illicit some 
discussion,

points of view, etc, before actually doing the VOTE thread. Rather than
getting a -1 in the VOTE thread, let's get any issues out in the 
open and

handle those before actually starting the VOTE thread.*

I will start a VOTE thread here on the dev mailing list at the 
beginning of

next week, after which the IPMC vote will be done on this, assuming it
passes. Until then, please respond with your thoughts on this topic,
concerns, etc.

Thanks,

Gj



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Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[David Green]

Also on QU40


**YES**.  

Each release contains a “What’s new” on the website containing 
the release notes (extracted for JIRA), for example, [here for Apache 
NetBeans 10](). 
The project aims to make no backward incompatible changes within a 
given major version.


Now that the numbering is moving the primary digit (from 9 to 10 to 11 
…) every 3-6 months,  does this top number still convey major version 
information or is that something (major version) that is declared in the 
product announcement?


Great job on the document!

Dave


On 7 Mar 2019, at 5:46, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:


For the current release, here:

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb100/index.html

For each release there is such a page listing features.

Gj

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 12:37 PM Mr_Krava 


wrote:

 Just looking at QU40.Where is the "Whats new" requirement we have 
said is

in each release?

CheersBrian
CUNKA


On Thursday, 7 March 2019, 9:59:18 pm AEDT, Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

 Hi all,

We've discussed this in various ways before, but let's try to hammer 
down
what needs to be done and whether we agree that as a project we're 
ready to

go ahead and vote on becoming a top level Apache project.

We're working together well as a community, we have done two complete
releases in the incubator and are working on the third, and though 
the

donation from Oracle to Apache is not yet complete, that is not a
precondition for Apache NetBeans becoming a top level project -- 
i.e.,
there are going to be more donations from Oracle to Apache whether or 
not
NetBeans is a top level project. In addition, we have been voting on 
a PMC

chair and that is going well too.

Maturity assessment is here:


https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans

Plus, our mentors have been asking us to graduate and we have been
promising to do that, and wanting to do it, but let's now actually go 
ahead

and do it.

*NOTE: This is not a VOTE thread. Therefore, do not respond with a 
+1,
please. Instead, this is a discussion thread to illicit some 
discussion,
points of view, etc, before actually doing the VOTE thread. Rather 
than
getting a -1 in the VOTE thread, let's get any issues out in the open 
and

handle those before actually starting the VOTE thread.*

I will start a VOTE thread here on the dev mailing list at the 
beginning of
next week, after which the IPMC vote will be done on this, assuming 
it

passes. Until then, please respond with your thoughts on this topic,
concerns, etc.

Thanks,

Gj



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Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Mark Struberg]

 +1
good releases, good community, good leadership - and some very ok-ish 
understanding about how ASF projects are done. Go for it!

LieGrue,strub
On Thursday, 7 March 2019, 14:32:28 CET, Bertrand Delacretaz 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi,

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:59 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Maturity assessment is here:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans
..

Thanks - as an incubation mentor I think this project is ready to
graduate, and is a great example of adapting to the Apache way of
doing things, working in a very open and constructive way. Happy to
see it graduate soon!

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:59 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> ...Maturity assessment is here:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans
..

Thanks - as an incubation mentor I think this project is ready to
graduate, and is a great example of adapting to the Apache way of
doing things, working in a very open and constructive way. Happy to
see it graduate soon!

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Geertjan Wielenga]

For the current release, here:

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb100/index.html

For each release there is such a page listing features.

Gj

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 12:37 PM Mr_Krava 
wrote:

>  Just looking at QU40.Where is the "Whats new" requirement we have said is
> in each release?
>
> CheersBrian
> CUNKA
>
>
> On Thursday, 7 March 2019, 9:59:18 pm AEDT, Geertjan Wielenga
>  wrote:
>
>  Hi all,
>
> We've discussed this in various ways before, but let's try to hammer down
> what needs to be done and whether we agree that as a project we're ready to
> go ahead and vote on becoming a top level Apache project.
>
> We're working together well as a community, we have done two complete
> releases in the incubator and are working on the third, and though the
> donation from Oracle to Apache is not yet complete, that is not a
> precondition for Apache NetBeans becoming a top level project -- i.e.,
> there are going to be more donations from Oracle to Apache whether or not
> NetBeans is a top level project. In addition, we have been voting on a PMC
> chair and that is going well too.
>
> Maturity assessment is here:
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans
>
> Plus, our mentors have been asking us to graduate and we have been
> promising to do that, and wanting to do it, but let's now actually go ahead
> and do it.
>
> *NOTE: This is not a VOTE thread. Therefore, do not respond with a +1,
> please. Instead, this is a discussion thread to illicit some discussion,
> points of view, etc, before actually doing the VOTE thread. Rather than
> getting a -1 in the VOTE thread, let's get any issues out in the open and
> handle those before actually starting the VOTE thread.*
>
> I will start a VOTE thread here on the dev mailing list at the beginning of
> next week, after which the IPMC vote will be done on this, assuming it
> passes. Until then, please respond with your thoughts on this topic,
> concerns, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Mr_Krava]

 Just looking at QU40.Where is the "Whats new" requirement we have said is in 
each release?

CheersBrian
CUNKA


On Thursday, 7 March 2019, 9:59:18 pm AEDT, Geertjan Wielenga 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi all,

We've discussed this in various ways before, but let's try to hammer down
what needs to be done and whether we agree that as a project we're ready to
go ahead and vote on becoming a top level Apache project.

We're working together well as a community, we have done two complete
releases in the incubator and are working on the third, and though the
donation from Oracle to Apache is not yet complete, that is not a
precondition for Apache NetBeans becoming a top level project -- i.e.,
there are going to be more donations from Oracle to Apache whether or not
NetBeans is a top level project. In addition, we have been voting on a PMC
chair and that is going well too.

Maturity assessment is here:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans

Plus, our mentors have been asking us to graduate and we have been
promising to do that, and wanting to do it, but let's now actually go ahead
and do it.

*NOTE: This is not a VOTE thread. Therefore, do not respond with a +1,
please. Instead, this is a discussion thread to illicit some discussion,
points of view, etc, before actually doing the VOTE thread. Rather than
getting a -1 in the VOTE thread, let's get any issues out in the open and
handle those before actually starting the VOTE thread.*

I will start a VOTE thread here on the dev mailing list at the beginning of
next week, after which the IPMC vote will be done on this, assuming it
passes. Until then, please respond with your thoughts on this topic,
concerns, etc.

Thanks,

Gj
  

[DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Hi all,

We've discussed this in various ways before, but let's try to hammer down
what needs to be done and whether we agree that as a project we're ready to
go ahead and vote on becoming a top level Apache project.

We're working together well as a community, we have done two complete
releases in the incubator and are working on the third, and though the
donation from Oracle to Apache is not yet complete, that is not a
precondition for Apache NetBeans becoming a top level project -- i.e.,
there are going to be more donations from Oracle to Apache whether or not
NetBeans is a top level project. In addition, we have been voting on a PMC
chair and that is going well too.

Maturity assessment is here:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans

Plus, our mentors have been asking us to graduate and we have been
promising to do that, and wanting to do it, but let's now actually go ahead
and do it.

*NOTE: This is not a VOTE thread. Therefore, do not respond with a +1,
please. Instead, this is a discussion thread to illicit some discussion,
points of view, etc, before actually doing the VOTE thread. Rather than
getting a -1 in the VOTE thread, let's get any issues out in the open and
handle those before actually starting the VOTE thread.*

I will start a VOTE thread here on the dev mailing list at the beginning of
next week, after which the IPMC vote will be done on this, assuming it
passes. Until then, please respond with your thoughts on this topic,
concerns, etc.

Thanks,

Gj

Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a top level Apache project

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Also sending this to d...@netbeans.apache.org, in case
dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org, just in case.

Gj

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:52 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We've discussed this in various ways before, but let's try to hammer down
> what needs to be done and whether we agree that as a project we're ready to
> go ahead and vote on becoming a top level Apache project.
>
> We're working together well as a community, we have done two complete
> releases in the incubator and are working on the third, and though the
> donation from Oracle to Apache is not yet complete, that is not a
> precondition for Apache NetBeans becoming a top level project -- i.e.,
> there are going to be more donations from Oracle to Apache whether or not
> NetBeans is a top level project. In addition, we have been voting on a PMC
> chair and that is going well too.
>
> Maturity assessment is here:
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans
>
> Plus, our mentors have been asking us to graduate and we have been
> promising to do that, and wanting to do it, but let's now actually go ahead
> and do it.
>
> *NOTE: This is not a VOTE thread. Therefore, do not respond with a +1,
> please. Instead, this is a discussion thread to illicit some discussion,
> points of view, etc, before actually doing the VOTE thread. Rather than
> getting a -1 in the VOTE thread, let's get any issues out in the open and
> handle those before actually starting the VOTE thread.*
>
> I will start a VOTE thread here on the dev mailing list at the beginning
> of next week, after which the IPMC vote will be done on this, assuming it
> passes. Until then, please respond with your thoughts on this topic,
> concerns, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>