Re: [Proposal] Add a "commercial-support" page to the website.
Hi Julian, the only reason I added that was that this way I was hoping to reduce your hesitation to have just anyone listed. I think there is nothing preventing us from just taking the first three columns. But I think we need to have anyone listed who asks to be listed (even if it's a company called "acoolcompany" which would be listed first. With having the PMC vote on who should be listed and who should not is probably a slippery slope which I wouldn't like to walk on. Chris Am 06.06.20, 10:37 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" : Hi Chris, I think ist a good idea to model it as other projects do it BUT I don’t like the way this is setup. One thing we take very high at apache is the "two hats" principle. Thus I dislike that companies list "all" their employees that are comitters / pmcs like a "trophy", that feels un-apache-esque to me. As you know probably better than myself at Apache we value the community and also non-pmc or non-committer contributors and contributions. And thus I think a company can also have enough achievement or value to be listed without having a committer to present. So I really object the name listing as this is too much "hat mixing" for me. Julian Am 05.06.20, 20:45 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi all, it seems we can rowspan in tables with asciidoc: https://mrhaki.blogspot.com/2014/12/awesome-asciidoctor-span-cell-over-rows.html So I would suggest to rowspan the logo name and the description of companies and to have the remaining columns one row per employee. Chris Am 05.06.20, 15:19 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi Julian, I had already sent an update ... I had initially just copied the text from the adopters page ... Well I thought that we would have multiple rows for multiple people involved and for each specify their involvement ... not sure if we should have a table in a table or similar. Chris Am 05.06.20, 13:36 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" : LGTM. Although I suggest some changes in the table: - More important than a company description would be what they offer (see e.g. Postgres Page: https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/europe/) - I would make it a bit smaler - And Involvement level we should standardize a bit perhaps. You wrote "PMC Member ". But what does that mean? The company? No. One employee? Two? - I would state "muliple Employees are PMC members" (which is also true for cc). WDYT? J Am 05.06.20, 13:03 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi all, I have just added a new page to the PLC4X website, however it’s not yet linked in the navigation and therefore should remain invisible until Google indexes this email ;-) It will be available soon from here (As soon as Jenkins is done): https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html What we have there is pretty inspired by the support page of the Apache Royale project: https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ However I used some different wording and a different proposal for a process to add entries. I would suggest to use PRs as this way we can have the account of the PR creator on-file in git-blame. Which might come in handy if there should ever be problems. We were told that in general everyone would be required to have him/herself added to that list no matter their involvement with the project. That’s why I decided to start with this in my proposal. I think with a column on the level of involvement should separate the true contributors from the others. I think there were also voices that said that an alternative would be a PMC vote, but with very strict rules to how this vote should be done and all votes should have to be performed without any individual bias. I asked the Royale project on how they dealt with entry requests to that list … they sort of laughed as they didn’t seem to really get any requests at all. What’s your opinion on this … also the ASF’s opinion is greatly appreciated as we don’t want to do anything that could harm the ASF. So I would really like to do it the way I proposed it, but that’s just my opinion … your other opinions are worth just as much (Well ok … the ASF’s opinion will probably weigh more ;-) ) Chris
Re: [Proposal] Add a "commercial-support" page to the website.
Hi Chris, I think ist a good idea to model it as other projects do it BUT I don’t like the way this is setup. One thing we take very high at apache is the "two hats" principle. Thus I dislike that companies list "all" their employees that are comitters / pmcs like a "trophy", that feels un-apache-esque to me. As you know probably better than myself at Apache we value the community and also non-pmc or non-committer contributors and contributions. And thus I think a company can also have enough achievement or value to be listed without having a committer to present. So I really object the name listing as this is too much "hat mixing" for me. Julian Am 05.06.20, 20:45 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi all, it seems we can rowspan in tables with asciidoc: https://mrhaki.blogspot.com/2014/12/awesome-asciidoctor-span-cell-over-rows.html So I would suggest to rowspan the logo name and the description of companies and to have the remaining columns one row per employee. Chris Am 05.06.20, 15:19 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi Julian, I had already sent an update ... I had initially just copied the text from the adopters page ... Well I thought that we would have multiple rows for multiple people involved and for each specify their involvement ... not sure if we should have a table in a table or similar. Chris Am 05.06.20, 13:36 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" : LGTM. Although I suggest some changes in the table: - More important than a company description would be what they offer (see e.g. Postgres Page: https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/europe/) - I would make it a bit smaler - And Involvement level we should standardize a bit perhaps. You wrote "PMC Member ". But what does that mean? The company? No. One employee? Two? - I would state "muliple Employees are PMC members" (which is also true for cc). WDYT? J Am 05.06.20, 13:03 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi all, I have just added a new page to the PLC4X website, however it’s not yet linked in the navigation and therefore should remain invisible until Google indexes this email ;-) It will be available soon from here (As soon as Jenkins is done): https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html What we have there is pretty inspired by the support page of the Apache Royale project: https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ However I used some different wording and a different proposal for a process to add entries. I would suggest to use PRs as this way we can have the account of the PR creator on-file in git-blame. Which might come in handy if there should ever be problems. We were told that in general everyone would be required to have him/herself added to that list no matter their involvement with the project. That’s why I decided to start with this in my proposal. I think with a column on the level of involvement should separate the true contributors from the others. I think there were also voices that said that an alternative would be a PMC vote, but with very strict rules to how this vote should be done and all votes should have to be performed without any individual bias. I asked the Royale project on how they dealt with entry requests to that list … they sort of laughed as they didn’t seem to really get any requests at all. What’s your opinion on this … also the ASF’s opinion is greatly appreciated as we don’t want to do anything that could harm the ASF. So I would really like to do it the way I proposed it, but that’s just my opinion … your other opinions are worth just as much (Well ok … the ASF’s opinion will probably weigh more ;-) ) Chris
Re: [Proposal] Add a "commercial-support" page to the website.
Hi all, it seems we can rowspan in tables with asciidoc: https://mrhaki.blogspot.com/2014/12/awesome-asciidoctor-span-cell-over-rows.html So I would suggest to rowspan the logo name and the description of companies and to have the remaining columns one row per employee. Chris Am 05.06.20, 15:19 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi Julian, I had already sent an update ... I had initially just copied the text from the adopters page ... Well I thought that we would have multiple rows for multiple people involved and for each specify their involvement ... not sure if we should have a table in a table or similar. Chris Am 05.06.20, 13:36 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" : LGTM. Although I suggest some changes in the table: - More important than a company description would be what they offer (see e.g. Postgres Page: https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/europe/) - I would make it a bit smaler - And Involvement level we should standardize a bit perhaps. You wrote "PMC Member ". But what does that mean? The company? No. One employee? Two? - I would state "muliple Employees are PMC members" (which is also true for cc). WDYT? J Am 05.06.20, 13:03 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi all, I have just added a new page to the PLC4X website, however it’s not yet linked in the navigation and therefore should remain invisible until Google indexes this email ;-) It will be available soon from here (As soon as Jenkins is done): https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html What we have there is pretty inspired by the support page of the Apache Royale project: https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ However I used some different wording and a different proposal for a process to add entries. I would suggest to use PRs as this way we can have the account of the PR creator on-file in git-blame. Which might come in handy if there should ever be problems. We were told that in general everyone would be required to have him/herself added to that list no matter their involvement with the project. That’s why I decided to start with this in my proposal. I think with a column on the level of involvement should separate the true contributors from the others. I think there were also voices that said that an alternative would be a PMC vote, but with very strict rules to how this vote should be done and all votes should have to be performed without any individual bias. I asked the Royale project on how they dealt with entry requests to that list … they sort of laughed as they didn’t seem to really get any requests at all. What’s your opinion on this … also the ASF’s opinion is greatly appreciated as we don’t want to do anything that could harm the ASF. So I would really like to do it the way I proposed it, but that’s just my opinion … your other opinions are worth just as much (Well ok … the ASF’s opinion will probably weigh more ;-) ) Chris
Re: [Proposal] Add a "commercial-support" page to the website.
Hi Julian, I had already sent an update ... I had initially just copied the text from the adopters page ... Well I thought that we would have multiple rows for multiple people involved and for each specify their involvement ... not sure if we should have a table in a table or similar. Chris Am 05.06.20, 13:36 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" : LGTM. Although I suggest some changes in the table: - More important than a company description would be what they offer (see e.g. Postgres Page: https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/europe/) - I would make it a bit smaler - And Involvement level we should standardize a bit perhaps. You wrote "PMC Member ". But what does that mean? The company? No. One employee? Two? - I would state "muliple Employees are PMC members" (which is also true for cc). WDYT? J Am 05.06.20, 13:03 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi all, I have just added a new page to the PLC4X website, however it’s not yet linked in the navigation and therefore should remain invisible until Google indexes this email ;-) It will be available soon from here (As soon as Jenkins is done): https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html What we have there is pretty inspired by the support page of the Apache Royale project: https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ However I used some different wording and a different proposal for a process to add entries. I would suggest to use PRs as this way we can have the account of the PR creator on-file in git-blame. Which might come in handy if there should ever be problems. We were told that in general everyone would be required to have him/herself added to that list no matter their involvement with the project. That’s why I decided to start with this in my proposal. I think with a column on the level of involvement should separate the true contributors from the others. I think there were also voices that said that an alternative would be a PMC vote, but with very strict rules to how this vote should be done and all votes should have to be performed without any individual bias. I asked the Royale project on how they dealt with entry requests to that list … they sort of laughed as they didn’t seem to really get any requests at all. What’s your opinion on this … also the ASF’s opinion is greatly appreciated as we don’t want to do anything that could harm the ASF. So I would really like to do it the way I proposed it, but that’s just my opinion … your other opinions are worth just as much (Well ok … the ASF’s opinion will probably weigh more ;-) ) Chris
Re: [Proposal] Add a "commercial-support" page to the website.
LGTM. Although I suggest some changes in the table: - More important than a company description would be what they offer (see e.g. Postgres Page: https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/europe/) - I would make it a bit smaler - And Involvement level we should standardize a bit perhaps. You wrote "PMC Member ". But what does that mean? The company? No. One employee? Two? - I would state "muliple Employees are PMC members" (which is also true for cc). WDYT? J Am 05.06.20, 13:03 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" : Hi all, I have just added a new page to the PLC4X website, however it’s not yet linked in the navigation and therefore should remain invisible until Google indexes this email ;-) It will be available soon from here (As soon as Jenkins is done): https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html What we have there is pretty inspired by the support page of the Apache Royale project: https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ However I used some different wording and a different proposal for a process to add entries. I would suggest to use PRs as this way we can have the account of the PR creator on-file in git-blame. Which might come in handy if there should ever be problems. We were told that in general everyone would be required to have him/herself added to that list no matter their involvement with the project. That’s why I decided to start with this in my proposal. I think with a column on the level of involvement should separate the true contributors from the others. I think there were also voices that said that an alternative would be a PMC vote, but with very strict rules to how this vote should be done and all votes should have to be performed without any individual bias. I asked the Royale project on how they dealt with entry requests to that list … they sort of laughed as they didn’t seem to really get any requests at all. What’s your opinion on this … also the ASF’s opinion is greatly appreciated as we don’t want to do anything that could harm the ASF. So I would really like to do it the way I proposed it, but that’s just my opinion … your other opinions are worth just as much (Well ok … the ASF’s opinion will probably weigh more ;-) ) Chris
