Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

> Also, macOS is switching from bash to zsh (?) I don't know why. > https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT208050 Probably because they stuck to an old version of bash to avoid the GPLv3 re-licensing, or so I've been told. Maybe the version of bash they use is going EOL as well. Dridi

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 9:10 AM wrote: > > > Surprise, apparently python3 is coming to macOS in some form (maybe > only for developers? not sure?) so WebKit should be fine with switching > to pytohn3 regardless. My reading of the developer notes is they're dropping the inclusion of python

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

Surprise, apparently python3 is coming to macOS in some form (maybe only for developers? not sure?) so WebKit should be fine with switching to pytohn3 regardless. I don't think it's important to this discussion, just wanted to send a correction. I wasn't expecting this

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

I already used Python 3.7.3 in Windows OS and is very good. On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 8:20 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 02. 07. 19 17:58, Peter Robinson wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 9:02 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > >> > >> On 01. 07. 19 16:21, Peter Robinson wrote: > >>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 02. 07. 19 17:58, Peter Robinson wrote: On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 9:02 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: On 01. 07. 19 16:21, Peter Robinson wrote: On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: On 28. 06. 19 0:51, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 9:02 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 01. 07. 19 16:21, Peter Robinson wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > >> > >> On 28. 06. 19 0:51, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa >>>

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Monday, 1 July 2019 18.59.42 WEST Björn Persson wrote: > Porting a Python 2 program to Python 3 is not like switching to another > version of GCC. It's more like converting a C program into C++ – and > even then, my gut feeling is that the minimal changes necessary to turn > a typical C program

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 01. 07. 19 16:21, Peter Robinson wrote: On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: On 28. 06. 19 0:51, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa mailto:ngomp...@gmail.com>> wrote: > What about postponing this change to F32? I'd prefer python2

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

Gerald Henriksen wrote: > Nobody trying to compile a C program expects to have to use gcc9, they > just expect to type in gcc. Despite all its flaws, C is pretty good at backwards-compatibility. A valid C99 program can be expected to work unchanged as C11. (A correct, standard-compliant C

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 2:34 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 28. 06. 19 0:51, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa > > wrote: > > > > > > > What about postponing this change to F32? I'd prefer python2 to be > > >

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:44:35AM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 01. 07. 19 9:02, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > >>>On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:59 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > >>> wrote: > What about postponing this change to F32? > > > >I'm now convinced postponing is not

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 01. 07. 19 9:02, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:59 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: What about postponing this change to F32? I'm now convinced postponing is not appropriate. In the meantime, I decided to ask some non-developers (biologists actually)

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

> >On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:59 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > wrote: > >>What about postponing this change to F32? I'm now convinced postponing is not appropriate. In the meantime, I decided to ask some non-developers (biologists actually) for their opinion, and the majority favours having

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 06/28/19 10:46, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 10:42 AM, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: >> If Fedora has /usr/bin/python, then at least we have a *chance* to make the >> scripts we care about work in both python2 and python3 (our current plan). >> Whereas without

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 18:51 -0400, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > What about postponing this change to F32? I'd prefer python2 to be > > > > > retired and gone from the distro first, and the symlink and > > > > > %python_provide definition

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 10:42 AM, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: If Fedora has /usr/bin/python, then at least we have a *chance* to make the scripts we care about work in both python2 and python3 (our current plan). Whereas without /usr/bin/python, we're really out of options. So I very much

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:51 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: Actually I think it makes more sense that F31 provides no /usr/bin/python. Then a lot of things which depend on it can be found and fixed since they have not adapted to the Future any other way. It would mean we have no chance of

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 26. 06. 19 19:57, Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 == Summary == In package and command names, "Python" will mean "Python 3". Users installing and running Python or Python packages without specifying a version will get Python 3. Running python

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

Rex Dieter wrote: > Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > >> Actually I think it makes more sense that F31 provides no >> /usr/bin/python. Then a lot of things which depend on it can be found and >> fixed since they have not adapted to the Future any other way. > > I agree. Apologies for not fully

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > Actually I think it makes more sense that F31 provides no /usr/bin/python. > Then a lot of things which depend on it can be found and fixed since they > have not adapted to the Future any other way. I agree. -- Rex ___

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 20:37, Gerald Henriksen wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:09:58 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 2:52 PM Dan Book wrote: > >> > >> As an outsider to the Python community, not having any binary or > package that responds to the expected name "python" would be a

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 6/28/19 2:48 AM, Gerald Henriksen wrote: On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:09:58 -0400, you wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 2:52 PM Dan Book wrote: As an outsider to the Python community, not having any binary or package that responds to the expected name "python" would be a disaster. Can you

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 28. 06. 19 10:22, Peter Robinson wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:20 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: On 27. 06. 19 17:15, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 12:32 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 26. 06. 19 20:07, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:20 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 27. 06. 19 17:15, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 12:32 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > >> On 26. 06. 19 20:07, Adam Williamson wrote: > >>> On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: >

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 28. 06. 19 0:51, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa > wrote: > What about postponing this change to F32? I'd prefer python2 to be > retired and gone from the distro first, and the symlink and > %python_provide

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 28. 06. 19 0:00, Neal Gompa wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:59 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 01:57:13PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 == Summary == In package and command names, "Python" will mean

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:09:58 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 2:52 PM Dan Book wrote: >> >> As an outsider to the Python community, not having any binary or package >> that responds to the expected name "python" would be a disaster. >> >Can you expand on that? As I understand it, most

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 7:41 PM Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > > > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa wrote: >> >> >> > What about postponing this change to F32? I'd prefer python2 to be >> > retired and gone from the distro first, and the symlink and >> > %python_provide definition only

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:59, wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 4:34 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > This is because > > in everything *except* Linux distributions, the unversioned name has > > already switched over. > > Not in macOS. System macOS is still Python 2, but new developers are not

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:49, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > What about postponing this change to F32? I'd prefer python2 to be > > retired and gone from the distro first, and the symlink and > > %python_provide definition only switched then. I think that having > > this middle state where python2 is

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 4:34 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: This is because in everything *except* Linux distributions, the unversioned name has already switched over. Not in macOS. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 5:59 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 01:57:13PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 > > > > == Summary == > > In package and command names, "Python" will mean "Python 3". > > > > Users

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 4:58 PM Ben Cotton wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 2:52 PM Dan Book wrote: > > > > As an outsider to the Python community, not having any binary or package > > that responds to the expected name "python" would be a disaster. > > > Can you expand on that? As I

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

- Original Message - > From: "Ben Cotton" > To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" > > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2019 10:09:58 PM > Subject: Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3 > > On Thu

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 01:57:13PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 > > == Summary == > In package and command names, "Python" will mean "Python 3". > > Users installing and running Python or Python packages without > specifying a version

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 04:09:58PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 2:52 PM Dan Book wrote: > > > > As an outsider to the Python community, not having any binary or package > > that responds to the expected name "python" would be a disaster. > > > Can you expand on that? As I

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 2:52 PM Dan Book wrote: > > As an outsider to the Python community, not having any binary or package that > responds to the expected name "python" would be a disaster. > Can you expand on that? As I understand it, most things that are calling for "python" now are

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 2:48 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 27. 06. 19 18:49, Ben Cotton wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:06 PM Miro Hrončok > wrote: > >> > >> So I might ask: What's the benefit of not having an unversioned python > at all? > >> > > Avoiding ambiguity. Admittedly, it's

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 27. 06. 19 20:13, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 17:33 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: There, you are correct. However, would we want "python" to mean Python 2 forever? I don't honestly see the *harm* in this. That is what it has always meant up until now, after all. That is

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 17:33 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > There, you are correct. However, would we want "python" to mean Python 2 > forever? I don't honestly see the *harm* in this. That is what it has always meant up until now, after all. That is probably what people expect it to mean by this

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 27. 06. 19 18:49, Ben Cotton wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:06 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: So I might ask: What's the benefit of not having an unversioned python at all? Avoiding ambiguity. Admittedly, it's avoiding large future pain at the cost of small-and-frequent current pain. I'm not

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:06 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > So I might ask: What's the benefit of not having an unversioned python at all? > Avoiding ambiguity. Admittedly, it's avoiding large future pain at the cost of small-and-frequent current pain. I'm not sure it's Fedora's place to drive that

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 27. 06. 19 17:57, Ben Cotton wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:10 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: No, we keep everything called python3, we just provide the "python" name. With python2 -> python3, one of the problems was that everything was just called "python" before. We are not proposing to start

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:10 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > No, we keep everything called python3, we just provide the "python" name. > With python2 -> python3, one of the problems was that everything was just > called > "python" before. We are not proposing to start doing that again. All packages

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:09:07 +0200 Miro Hrončok wrote: > No, we keep everything called python3, we just provide the "python" > name. With python2 -> python3, one of the problems was that > everything was just called "python" before. We are not proposing to > start doing that again. All packages

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 27. 06. 19 17:15, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 12:32 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 26. 06. 19 20:07, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 == Summary == In package and command

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 12:32 +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 26. 06. 19 20:07, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 > > > > > > == Summary == > > > In package and command names, "Python"

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 27. 06. 19 16:02, stan via devel wrote: On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:32:26 +0200 Miro Hrončok wrote: On 26. 06. 19 20:07, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 == Summary == In package and

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:32:26 +0200 Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 26. 06. 19 20:07, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 > >> > >> == Summary == > >> In package and command names, "Python"

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On 26. 06. 19 20:07, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 == Summary == In package and command names, "Python" will mean "Python 3". Users installing and running Python or Python packages

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 21:13 +0100, José Abílio Matos wrote: > On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 19.07.27 WEST Adam Williamson wrote: > > Oh, man. I thought we'd decided against this in the past? I'm worried > > about the cost/benefit ratio on such a change. > > If this were only related with python I

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 19.07.27 WEST Adam Williamson wrote: > Oh, man. I thought we'd decided against this in the past? I'm worried > about the cost/benefit ratio on such a change. If this were only related with python I would agree with you. Yet this also applies to lots of other tools like

Re: Fedora 31 System-Wide Change proposal: Python means Python3

On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 13:57 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_means_Python3 > > == Summary == > In package and command names, "Python" will mean "Python 3". > > Users installing and running Python or Python packages without > specifying a version will get