Nemo.
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' - for things that 'come with the OS'. We
don't allow to uninstall those.
WTF!?
Compared to Ubuntu, certainly. But compared to gpk-application F19, I
don't think so.
Always the same broken assumption that Ubuntu's flawed design is the model
to copy.
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/fpc/ticket/362
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lame excuse for sticking with an awful desktop environment as
the default just because it is the status quo.
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Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Fri, 2013-11-01 at 04:40 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Bill Nottingham wrote:
And I would argue that having the user interface swing wildly in design
implementation based on the current composition of an elected board
that is refreshed in part every six months
Richard Hughes wrote:
Not update, we do all updates offline now.
Ewww! Yuck!
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.
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مصعب الزعبي wrote:
Also this law is under restudy, Due to War in Syria.
Wasn't Syria actually READDED to the list of banned countries due to the
civil war?
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Fedora
).
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as if it were unreasonable to expect this in the future.
IMHO, the Spins were actually a better approach than this new Products idea.
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, digital
clock), a menu (popping up from the menu button in the panel), and a desktop
displaying the xdg-user-dir for DESKTOP in some place (spread over the
entire desktop or in a widget, Plasma can do either as desired), then it is
clear that gnome-shell does NOT qualify.
Kevin Kofler
this (and with the fix for
the nested expansion, it becomes even more ugly) is compatible with the
spec files must be legible packaging guideline?
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patent license) behind the user's
back.
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with the specification, that
would be unfortunate.
Again, we have had all this with Fluendo MP3, and Codeina (the real name of
the Codec Buddy) has been removed from Fedora. Readding it would be a step
backwards.
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require it. (Our
aggressive mass-rebuilding and the demise of the old hacks to hardlink data
packages in the repos from one version to the next and of Rawhide
inheritance kinda make the points which spoke against it moot.) But as long
as we don't, you can't blame packagers for not using it.
Kevin
against the updated
ones before the reboots,
* security fixes also only take effect after the reboots.
It also violates the principle of least surprise.
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to bundling with all its problems
(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:No_Bundled_Libraries) is not
acceptable.
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didn't have anything to do with the merits of Objective C, or
even of the desktop, but only with marketing. If Objective C were that
great, we'd all be using GNUstep.
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-like apps!
Kevin Kofler
(*) depending on what PolicyKit permissions are set for the user – AFAIK, we
now default to not requiring any password for admin (wheel group) users
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.git2464a6c.fc21
0.1.git337ab1f.fc21
0.1.git59337c9.fc21
0.1.git684bc0.fc21
0.1.git95ebd69.fc21
0.1.gitc147867.fc21
Missing required date before git.
etc.
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is useless, too. Plus,
you ignore the many security and bugfix updates which do clearly explain
what they fix in their update notes.
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followed the
dominant paradigm, which is still windows afaik.
Even that dominant paradigm stopped requiring reboots for each and every
update eons ago. A user does not expect updates to require reboots, even
less a GNU/Linux user.
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were to want Photoshop on a linux desktop, I think that would be
great news. It would be hugely disruptive.
Hugely disruptive to your freedom, indeed… What's wrong with GIMP?
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the PackageKit-based GStreamer
codec installer which requires rpmfusion-free-release to be installed to be
useful, but then actually offers the codecs that users want.)
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that they can sell apps in your
store, they will not do it?)
and thus, it is just not true that having the app store available does not
affect those of us who opt against using it. It WILL have detrimental
effects that will hurt all users.
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e.g. kde-unstable for KDE
betas. We just need to get that COPR stuff (the Fedora PPAs) done so that
setting up such a repository becomes easy. That makes much more sense than
throwing the whole repository system overboard and going back to bundling
crap.
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, not with the
concept of a repository.
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drago01 wrote:
You'd be trying to use the lowest common denominator which means you have
to wait years until all distros you care about ship the newer library.
And how is this Fedora's problem? We don't take years to ship new libraries.
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, but application bundled).
-1, I couldn't disagree more.
A codec MUST be system-wide so that:
* all applications can use the codec and
* any fixes to the codec apply to all applications at once.
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.
Someone? Why not you? Almost certainly, most of us are not subscribed to
that list.
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/new library on the system.
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not
like that program is hard to package.
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Alberto Ruiz wrote:
Then you can have a policy that is more suitable to apps with a
different cadence than the system-wide (rpm/deb/...) repository, in fact
you may not need a cadence at all.
Such applications should just be shipped as updates to the released
distribution.
Kevin
(in our
repositories), see my reply elsewhere in the thread.
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Josh Boyer wrote:
That isn't a great attitude to carry forward. I'd rather try and find
a good balance between the two so we don't relegate Fedora to less
than it could be.
good balance? Buzzword alert!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
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at all? They do not care if the
source code of their software comes from github, SourceForge or some lone
developer's HDD. They get it all from a distro.
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suddenly we
want to do it with the desktop applications.
You shouldn't be installing pip/gem/… stuff directly, that's what -devel
packages are for.
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not allow you to redistribute it.
So you wouldn't just be forced to pay, but also be deprived of your freedoms
in the process.
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dilemma on us.
Oops, I managed to proverbially shoot myself in the foot by posting the
wrong link…
IMHO, there is no false dilemma here, but a true one, and the proposed
middle ground actually makes no sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation
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be able to because it'd be sandboxed...
That's his point. We need all the overhead of a sandbox just to (attempt to)
prevent apps from doing such nasty things, a problem we don't have in the
world of trusted repositories.
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thing they care about
from the distro (sometimes!) is having those tools present.
If for you end user means web developer…
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), sorry.
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.
To the average user, Python is a snake and Ruby is Berlusconi's favorite
callgirl.
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repositories with non-
free crap are there and the stuff they are actually looking for is not.
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about libraries? Will they get bundled into each sandbox as the app
principle seems to suggest?
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if they disagree with you on what is sane. The more options,
the better.
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makes me puke!
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for old sonames where a simple rebuild is enough to
fix all the software we ship is just useless. Compatibility libraries only
make sense where porting is not trivial.
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is fatally flawed.
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NOT be easier than
getting Free stuff we won't ship (2). I understand why we don't make (2) any
easier, but that just means (3) should not get any easier either.
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(and Livna) in the list, it's better to not have such a list at all and let
users find the real, complete list on their own.
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Olav Vitters wrote:
The definition given by Frank Murphy is totally different and doesn't
align with above. Above also doesn't relate to developers.
These align a lot with what I wrote though. :-)
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/power_user
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_user
Kevin
/ Frameworks / (whatever the term of the
day is) and the KDE Applications (those that happen to release together with
the other stuff) every single time.
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Olav Vitters wrote:
AFAIK (not sure), it should come somewhat easy once you the distribution
is based upon systemd.
That means it will exclude the most popular distribution out there.
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of overthrowing it all with a new parallel structure
(Products and Working Groups)?
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things worse, there WILL be resistance. In fact, this is already what is
happening in this thread, the app proposal coming from (parts of) the
Workstation WG.
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packager. (Packages done
by upstream tend to be the crappiest of all.)
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Simo Sorce wrote:
On Wed, 2013-11-06 at 01:13 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Simo Sorce wrote:
* and *ideally* I mean SELinux sanbdboxed with specific APIs that must
be used to interact with the rest of the system, so that the
application doesn't have free reign over users files.
So you
Olav Vitters wrote:
On Wed, Nov 06, 2013 at 01:00:16AM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Bastien Nocera wrote:
Might not want to put answers in people's mouths. Did you read up on
the various bundling techniques that were explored and the API/ABI
guarantees we want to offer? I'll stop short
Peter Lemenkov wrote:
I'm no longer using it so I'm going to retire it. Feel free to take it
over.
If you want other people to take your package over, you need to orphan it,
NOT retire it! Retiring is for when you think a package needs to go away for
good.
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is developers who develop proprietary software and/or who
hate distribution packaging, and so will never get their stuff into our
repositories. If a developer is happy with the distro packaging system, why
would they care about the app system?
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it is provably impossible to
implement it without getting the nasty drawbacks of bundling.
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a discussion.
Can't you just admit that the consensus is AGAINST Apple-like apps?
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Olav Vitters wrote:
On Thu, Nov 07, 2013 at 11:33:57AM +0100, Sergio Pascual wrote:
2013/11/7 Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl
On Thu, Nov 07, 2013 at 03:53:48AM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Olav Vitters wrote:
AFAIK (not sure), it should come somewhat easy once you the
distribution
will target only that one.)
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Josh Boyer wrote:
So if we call containerized apps Appers
The name Apper is already taken!
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!
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has been
made, yet I see several posts making the implied assumption that it will be
GNOME.
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://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627943
I was referring to the Exec=gnome-terminal … hack that Christian Schaller
suggested. That makes the command-line (and thus desktop-independent)
application use gnome-terminal everywhere, which is very broken.
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pointing out the blatant flaws in
your plans. Don't shoot the messenger!
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worth, Apper does exactly that (prompting for whether you want
to run the installed application(s)). It's one click to dismiss it if you
aren't interested.
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software
links to) including some examples that can be useful on their own, sometimes
in a -tools subpackage, sometimes not; sometimes with a .desktop file,
sometimes not. Are those applications or libraries?
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that works without arguments SHOULD include a
.desktop file with Terminal=true!
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any arbitrary
terminal emulator is unlikely to support them either.
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eclipse-equinox-osgi need separate builds or even versions for OSGi 4
and 5? (I ask because this appears to be the case for Knopflerfish according
to its site. http://www.eclipse.org/equinox/ doesn't mention OSGi 5 at all.)
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trouble.
Of course, the ideal solution would be to have a Free replacement or to get
the original relicensed, but failing that, that's what RPM Fusion Nonfree is
for.
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orphan:
http://209.132.184.188/package/kdelibs-experimental/
and offers me to retire it (which it already is) or pick it up.
Should I file a ticket for that on GitHub?
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Przemek Klosowski wrote (quoting from redhat-rpm-config):
pyo=$(echo $pyc | sed -e 's/.pyc$/.pyo/')
This should say:
pyo=$(echo $pyc | sed -e 's/\.pyc$/.pyo/')
Note the added backslash.
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, if there
are legal issues with the fork… :-(
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.
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.
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-time creation process.
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recursively, sure; it'd
help if RPM exported some rm_rf or so function to Lua scriptlets).
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spam their headers
directly into /usr/include; if they don't, we have no other choice than
moving them without their consent.
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Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
This recipe has worked for me for years. The patches are probably
implicitly ordered by their names (ie. 0001-...patch etc)
I think they're actually ordered by their patch number in the specfile.
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-patches.sh?h=f20
Ewww! Yuck!
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is not in there, is it?
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repository manipulation such as git push. At least I can fire
up qgit from git-cola, having it set up as the history viewer.) So you can
just use the same tools you use for your own development, you don't have to
go through some crappy proprietary web interface.
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information for libgcc? Getting gcc-debuginfo
dragged in is bad enough!)
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is to be used, so I'm the wrong person to comment
on those.
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. If they are the
real copyright holders, we just need to contact THEM about the issue and get
a statement from them, ignoring the Bacula guy entirely.
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in the
-debuginfo package. (And subpackages do not always require each other, so
you cannot always require on the EVR-locked inter-subpackage Requires.)
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Petr Pisar wrote:
[snip] and GPLv2 and GPLv3+.
Huh? WTF is upstream smoking there?
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strings could also be translatable. This flag makes our
compiler no longer comply to the C/C++ standards and breaks valid and
perfectly secure code.
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positive, I'd do one of:
(a) close the bug as INVALID/NOTABUG/WONTFIX or
(b) hardcode -Wno-error=format-security -Wno-format-security in my build
setup and close the bug as FIXED.
Kevin Kofler
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with!
Kevin Kofler
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