a module -- at least when
we get the details around that worked out.
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quirement is not just to make the source code
available, but to make it available _under the terms of this license_.
As suggested, please take further dicussion to le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
(cc'd).
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changes due earlier and go through the same
greater review process, but then we're gonna get a lot more "ugh Fedora is
so process-heavy and bureaucratic" and people just not doing it at all.
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ying because of the impending doom that is RHEL 8).
Can you elaborate? How would this break third-party packagers?
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ckage
builds could also be tagged as "regular" builds and land in the non-modular
repo.
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Add support for VirtualBox 6.0
Does this affect us? How?
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wo copies?
[1] a funny name for "allowing modules in buildroot"²
[2] hey, what happened to sgallagh's "hybrid" proposal where output from
modules could just be *tagged into* base? That seemed perfect for cases
like this.
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to an easier and seamless boot experience.
+1. I often see new users asking "why are there multiple Fedora choices?", or
"which kernel should I use?"
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t to 5 for F31?
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List Guid
ackages are legacy cruft. And the important stuff that
> needs to be updated needs some motivation like this.
"This change needs to motivate other important stuff that we don't have
direct control over to change" seems like *exactly* the reason we ask for
system-wide changes to be
se engineering handle that?
I think it's a great idea.
The idea is to move release engineering from being responsible for turning a
crank that puts out releases to owning a *machine* which creates releases
on demand for the groups actually responsible for that release.
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l thing". But it's not that. It's "the
process for making sure our routine update to GCC across the whole distro
goes smoothly for everyone".
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the info.
If you're having trouble finding a sponsor, let us know here, too.
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Fedora C
help out with
> ostree/rpm-ostree upstream. Looking forward to contributing further in the
> Fedora space!
Awesome -- welcome!
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dora.org web site,
I *do* want to see Fedora KDE Plasma Desktop, Fedora Cinnamon Desktop,
Fedora Astronomy Lab, Fedora Jam, and all the rest get more promotion
and support. That's totally the within the project's mission, and I
totally support the teams behind those efforts. The Mindshare Commi
t I think as a project we can at
least attempt to be internally consistent, and I think there are huge
benefits in making sure Fedora (the project) isn't tied to one particular
output.
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d with a new title.
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ming and potentially full of traps.
I think it's better to not focus so much on the central page or on the
"getfedora" brochure site, and to instead make the page for each particular
solution more useful and more discoverable.
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On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 02:42:05PM -0800, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> * non free submissions. What if someone submits non free content and we
> build and host it? That would not be great.
Can we apply the same "flag and remove" approach as currently used in Copr?
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going to explore the non-uuid "countme" flag option
instead, which makes that irrelevant.
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> interested in setting up a team to work on it?
Yes, there's definitely interest -- I actually talked to someone from AMD
about this a few weeks ago.
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To u
so there's still time, but I wouldn't count on the feature
> landing.
Aw. I'm so looking forward to it! Thanks for the update.
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e can.
> * We should probably move flatpak-common to the flatpaks/ namespace
> for ease of discovery, but it isn’t in any way a flatpak, it’s just a
> module that Flatpaks can depend on.
I'd suggest just making a flatpak-common repo in flatpaks/ with a README
linking to the module namesp
lso: we should make sure design team is
aware so the background works.
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bsolutely!
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List Guidelin
week and onward -- this would make it easy to
distinguish systems which are short-lived. (Or "countme=new" and
"countme=ongoing" or something?)
H. How comfortable would people be with reporting an incrementing count
*every* week (again, without a UUID attached)
> aside?
Possibly it could use a special VARIANT_ID reserved for this case?
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whole week until you can reasonably assume that an installation is
> probably permanent.
Sure, it's a threshold and we'd have to set a balance.
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ot;Qubes Fedora Remix", I might add it to the report, and if it's
"Fedora Suxxx!" I would not.
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we'll actually present the UUIDs directly in reports. It does seem
reasonable to check that UUIDs actually match the expected format, which
should cut out most of that.
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age (cleaned by standard image prep) is clear.
> We need to first decide whether or not we want
> containers and other declarative environments to be considered separate
> machines.
Sorry, I'm not seeing the connection. Maybe it's just too late in the day.
Can you spell it out for me?
;1" on one of
> these ping checks a day, and "0" all other times. Then you count how
We have this too and it's useful for some subset of desktop installs, but
doesn't tell us about server, cloud, or container usage.
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usly a worse privacy risk and a worse way to count
> users than randomized UUIDs.
That's a good point.
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applications. It's not really a privacy
policy (or statement) for the OS. See
https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/53 for some background and
current state.
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asy way to disable this. If you pass an identifier, that enables client
> tracking.
I agree -- it'll go in the release notes, docs, and probably also dnf
configuration files as a comment.
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...
Hmmm. We have fedora.pool.ntp.org, in fact. I'm not sure who actually runs
that!
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Fed
chedule. Let's go ahead with the
assumption that we'll use the regular end-of-October target.
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probably explains that.
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s. In such repo you have branches which track respective
[...]
> That sounds very nice.
>
> Is there a place to discuss this approach?
I would suggest *this list*, although perhaps if it's something other than
lifecycle a new thread (so it doesn't get lost).
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That is, you say that modularity isn't capable of soving this, but I'm not
sure why not.)
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easier for users to just run the program.
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st couple
> of years but I'd like to contribute more to open-source projects like
> Fedora.
That's great -- welcome to Fedora!
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EOL F29 6 months before F31 is out to not have *two* long term
> > branches to maintain?
> So going back to memory of what we did in the F-21 cycle, we EOLed
> F-19 at the 13 months line and then F-20 continued until a month after
> F-22 was out.
I'd support doing this again.
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default, even.
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L
mpose time, and run createrepo against that instead
of rpms directly.
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Fedora Code of Condu
t
> that we define "the compose" as a single thing which produces (last
> time I counted) 70+ deliverables. If we had an easy way to say 'ok,
> right now we need a compose which produces A, B, C and D from the
> minimum necessary sets of inputs', that would be a massive improvemen
the
> ball on this, let's do the F27 EOL on Friday and I'll fix both the
> text of the policy and my own workflow to prevent this issue in the
> future.
For the record, FESCo ticket where 4 weeks / 28 days was made official:
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1750
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re's always room for
improvement but let's please not talk about other people's work in this way.
Thank you.
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egrate this together with Leap;
because of our multi-brand puzzle, we've been kind of blocked from taking
advantage of what we have. But that's really an artificial block; it's all
open source, all very similar technology, and all in the same family, even!
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On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:19:29PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> I think the very, very high fast rate I'm seeing in the mirror stats (see
Too excited! "Very high fast upgrade rate." :)
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be the true authoritative source.
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for
f23 at the left side of the graph.
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are looking for something along the lines of "Fedora LTS"?
It's definitely a tool we have in the box, at least.
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esn't really capture the entire "source" like I get
> with an upstream release tarball.
I think to do this we would need to have our own, controlled local git
mirror.
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Welcome! This sounds like an interesting project. Let me know if you need
anything!
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Fedora Code o
e, from my statistics, there's a lot of 3-year-old (and older!)
Fedora out on the web today. But that aside, let's say we wanted to do it
right *and* still keep the distro exciting and fun to hack on.
What person-power and procedures would we need to add?
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y, the subset used for the IoT
spin (and potential future edition)?
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ted to 1000 bugs." → that's just for CVEs.
What happens if we limit that to a smaller subset, though?
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esktop and
> > IoT shipped on systems and 2. expanding the community by getting Fedora into
> > places which don't consider us because we're perceived as too fleeting.
>
> Why not make just IoT LTS?
That's a possibility. How would we do that?
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ll, it would reduce the number of active streams, and make the QA effort
be a subset of full-release QA.
Alternately, GNOME could switch to a yearly release cycle for our
convenience. :)
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On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 09:54:27AM -0600, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote:
> Is 36 months an absolute minimum for getting onto consumer laptops?
Based on the conversations I've had, yes. We might be able to get some niche
acceptance with 27 months.
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e meant for day-to-day
use (and using ostree for rollbacks), would that be adequate for the "on the
edge" GNOME community?
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iff between F-1 and F.
Yeah, definitely. We can't do this in a way which significantly increases
the number of active branches.
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jor release every two years, followed by point updates. Kind of like RHL
back in the day.
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as a direct upstream for your
internal RHEL work? Fedora is supposed to be the upstream for RHEL, after
all. Why not make that true all of the time, not just every N years when
RHEL branches?
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ere to not break 1) the hardware it runs on
and 2) the stuff on top.
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Fedora Cod
es for the current 13 months,
> most of my time is spent on fedora next.
I think any workable answer is going to need some sort of Rings approach
that allows different cadence for deliverables on top. Cinnamon, for
example, could be in Ring 2 and deliver a faster-moving experience.
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cularly, I'm pretty sure about the goals: 1. getting Fedora desktop and
IoT shipped on systems and 2. expanding the community by getting Fedora into
places which don't consider us because we're perceived as too fleeting.
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s? How would we make sure we're
not overworked? How would we balance this with getting people new stuff
fast as well?
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to discover the need for modularity
> as a packager, but I'm not eager to.
Solving problems for users should count as something!
The thing I really want from it is: automatic builds across bases from one
(or two) stream branches. That's partly there, but isn't as magical as I'd
like it to be.
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tulations!
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age_maintainers
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ng yet. And speculation
is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
there specific things you'd like to ask?
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and congratulations to everyone!
Read the official announcement at:
* https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-fedora-29/
or just go ahead and grab it from:
* https://getfedora.org/
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and congratulations to everyone!
Read the official announcement at:
* https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-fedora-29/
or just go ahead and grab it from:
* https://getfedora.org/
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them forever. (And there isn't even a guarantee that the same won't happen
> again with F30.)
Agreed.
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ve this to the top of the queue versus where it sits?
We need more people interested in working on the problem. It's hard because
the whole release-engineering process is an intimidating and complicated
system that it's hard to get people plugged into. And yes, that is a bit
ironic.
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ickstarts? If not, that might be a good idea
> to have so that we can validate them before going through the
> expensive process of producing ISOs. That could even be a CI test on
> the fedora-kickstarts repo!
+1!
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.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MWR6OULSXFL6WF4RF4CLVFDVVRN73PKV/
We've got to fix this so that non-blocking deliverables like this can be
delivered independent of the main compose.
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On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 08:14:11AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Thanks, this is useful. Shouldn't this be prominently linked from
> https://getfedora.org/ though?
Probably! Can you file a ticket with websites? We're doing a big refresh of
that site anyway for F30.
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er the MIT license. However, this
compilation license does not supersede the licenses of code and content
contained in Fedora, which conform to the legal guidelines described at
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t active and important list.
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On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 07:49:41AM -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> Oh really... I said that... perhaps you should take 5 seconds and read the
> subject of the thread.
Hey, let's please keep this friendly.
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s!".
What else do you (not just Neal — take this as an open question!) think we
should do differently from a Red Hat side?
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necessarily constrain how much people are able and willing to
> do. It doesn't get simpler than that. And I have *not* seen a
> Discourse instance be successful in that with large teams, much less
> large groups like the development groups within Fedora.
Yeah -- this is completely reasonable
veral people implying some sort of fait accompli
here, that some backroom decision has been made, that we're somehow trying
to destroy communication seriously?
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se is a pure open source project that is *really catching on and
successful*. It's not perfect either, of course, but we're way better off
aligning with something with momentum.
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cretion? Should we
> somehow evaluate all the cases one by one?
What about a "Command Line tools for Developers" section in Software?
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so, specifically hostile to
mailing lists.
However — and I say this as a die-hard mutt user with my own postfix
server — we absolutely, no way, should make it seem like running such a
setup is a prerequisite to involvement in Fedora development. If that's
"fair", I don't want "fair
e/restore used in VMs.
Okay then. I was remembering this from
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Virt_Guest_Suspend_Hibernate
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on. I've wished for a long time
Yeah, I'm not suggesting moving all development discussion there, although
I think there are people who *do* want to do development discussion that
way, and I wouldn't want to _block_ that.
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of started with
observations about actual problems we are seeing with the world today and
mailing lists.
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There might be some use for it for VMs
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a in general. I've really appreciated your voice on a a lot of things,
and especially the bias towards doing and trying things.
Also, welcome, Petr! I'll go through all the paperwork and stuff to get you
onboarded.
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about spam. So you can reply to threads, but not start them.
Discourse is *definitely* not a smooth, drop-in mailing list replacement
like Hyperkitty is.
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ic assets necessary for a discourse.org forum to operate, such as site
logos, JavaScript code, and images in posts. If you view source on the
hosted Discourse forum page and search for "CDN", you'll see exactly which
assets are served from this domain.
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irectly involved, or are
impacted and need to change something, or whether they just might like to be
aware).
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number
of people and doesn't seem to be getting attention, consider nominating it
as a prioritized bug instead:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Program_Management/Prioritized_bugs_and_issues_-_the_process
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for clarity, I'm pretty sure Adam means "this problem is really the one
you have", not "hey, buddy, this is *your* problem, not ours". :)
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